Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 116984 times)

Online Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #120 on: July 22, 2017, 09:20:54 PM »
What is the way to go for maximum originality on the paint for the frame swing arm etc. mine's a Mk 2 but is it the same brew ?

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #121 on: July 22, 2017, 10:06:55 PM »
What is the way to go for maximum originality on the paint for the frame swing arm etc. mine's a Mk 2 but is it the same brew ?

The best match the local powder coater could come up with was flat black, the finish looks like a very low gloss, not actually flat and |I am very happy with the results.

I had the exhaust header, clamps,  and cross over ceramic coated matte black, matches the new repro muffler I bought.

Offline balvenie

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #122 on: July 22, 2017, 10:07:41 PM »
This is a bit of a heart stopper mate :shocked: :cry:
Better luck next time :thumb:
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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #123 on: July 22, 2017, 11:30:28 PM »
Evaporust? Is that similar to Kroil? How long have you been letting it soak? Sometimes you do have to resort to brute force.


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Evaporust is non toxic, non flammable, basically vinegar I bet. The cylinders have been soaking for a week, just won't budge. I may add aquarium heaters to the bores to heat the Evaporust, heat will make the reaction speed up. There is so little space between the cylinder wall and the piston for the rust remover to work its way into the ring. I may just grind out the pistons with a dire grinder, I have another pair of decent used pistons to use. I will give it another week.

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #123 on: July 22, 2017, 11:30:28 PM »

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #124 on: July 23, 2017, 12:55:27 AM »
I assume you've heard of acetone and ATF?


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Online Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #125 on: July 23, 2017, 01:27:06 AM »
The best match the local powder coater could come up with was flat black, the finish looks like a very low gloss, not actually flat and |I am very happy with the results.

I had the exhaust header, clamps,  and cross over ceramic coated matte black, matches the new repro muffler I bought.
Thank you, that'll be my aim then.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #126 on: July 23, 2017, 08:48:29 AM »
The best match the local powder coater could come up with was flat black, the finish looks like a very low gloss, not actually flat and |I am very happy with the results.

I had the exhaust header, clamps,  and cross over ceramic coated matte black, matches the new repro muffler I bought.

The powdercoater I use calls it "Jet Black".
Charlie

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #127 on: July 23, 2017, 04:23:54 PM »
I assume you've heard of acetone and ATF?


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Yep just never had much luck with it, I tried a lot of brute force, got one cylinder 'almost' off.



Heat, heat and more heat,



then filled the cylinders with Evaporust, let it boil for a good 30 minutes,



still stuck, so the whole top of the crankcase is inverted with the cylinders submerged in Evaporust.



I hate rust
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 10:31:22 PM by canuck750 »

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #128 on: July 24, 2017, 04:01:24 AM »
 :shocked:
Looks pretty stuck I must say! But I'm sure you'll get it out at some point :grin:
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Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #129 on: July 24, 2017, 09:19:56 AM »
Electricity?


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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #130 on: July 24, 2017, 09:44:01 AM »
Do you have a giant ultrasonic cleaner? I've broken loose hobby sized engines that were seized up that way by sitting in ultrasonic cleaner for 30+ minutes. May or may not work in this case, but worth a shot if you have or have access to one. Good luck.
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Offline Don G

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #131 on: July 24, 2017, 10:11:04 AM »
A little rust goes a long way! Patience, heat and a bit of lube will over come eventually. Get rammy and things get broken.  DonG

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #132 on: July 26, 2017, 09:23:39 PM »
A little rust goes a long way! Patience, heat and a bit of lube will over come eventually. Get rammy and things get broken.  DonG

Almost got the pistons out, taking your advice, soaking in Evaporust and applying heat, got them both so the rings where starting to be exposed in the crescent cut outs of the cylinder liner bases. Back to soak for a couple more days and then hopefully the pistons will drop out. Never have I had something as stuck as this, over a month of various chemicals soaking into the rings.

Offline Psychopasta

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #133 on: July 26, 2017, 09:42:07 PM »
Kudos on the patience Canuck! This makes my V50 look like a walk in the park  :bow:

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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #134 on: July 27, 2017, 11:01:02 PM »
Finally





The pistons are toast, the cylinders are junk, both cylinders have cracked skirts, I found a good used set of pistons and cylinders, the crank bearings don't feel very good ......

« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 11:06:23 PM by canuck750 »

Offline smdl

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #135 on: July 27, 2017, 11:28:41 PM »
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Way to go, Jim!

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Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #136 on: July 28, 2017, 04:49:36 AM »
Yeay! You got them apart! Knew you would, this looks like it must be one of the worst starting points you have had so far 🤤

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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #137 on: July 28, 2017, 08:25:38 AM »
Congrats on the removal of the piston/cylinders! Patience is a virtue, and you have it. I would have not only destroyed those parts, but probably would have also bulldozed down my shop with everything in it!

In regards to the powdercoat color, I went with what my powdercoater called "matte black" finish. Though, if I were to do it again I think I would opt to add the matte clearcoat option he offered as I think it would have given it a little more depth. The "gloss black" version he had I thought it was too shiny and showed too many of the imperfections, but probably closer to the factory frame paint in reality I think. I do think the less glossy looks better on these bikes since they don't have a lot of chrome on them

Vinegar... I soaked one of my tanks in a blend of white wine and apple cider vinegar for about 2-weeks; It ate through the alloy of the factory petcocks, and actually damaged the factory tank lining. The taps actually popped out out and the tank full of vinegar just drained out. Luckily, I had the tank sitting over a bin. So short term, vinegar is OK. Long term (more than say a few days), it will cause damage to certain materials. I thought I had pics of my deteriorated fuel taps on my phone, but can't find them. If I still have the taps, I'll post a pic later. They look like something that washed ashore out of the ocean.

Some pics the matte black powdercoat on my G5:





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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #138 on: July 28, 2017, 09:01:45 AM »
Finally





The pistons are toast, the cylinders are junk, both cylinders have cracked skirts, I found a good used set of pistons and cylinders, the crank bearings don't feel very good ......



From the photos, I'm wondering if they weren't gummed into place instead of rusted into place. A few years ago I rebuilt the top-end on a customer's R75/5 BMW that had been left sitting petcocks open for several years. The gas drained through the carbs, flooded the cylinders and evaporated. When he bought it to me, he forgot to tell me that backstory, so I proceeded to remove the stuck pistons from the cylinders assuming they were rusted into place. Tried all sorts of penetrants, heat and non-damaging force. Once I switched to serious gum-cutting solvents, the pistons started to move and I eventually got them out undamaged.
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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #139 on: July 28, 2017, 09:12:36 AM »
From the photos, I'm wondering if they weren't gummed into place instead of rusted into place. A few years ago I rebuilt the top-end on a customer's R75/5 BMW that had been left sitting petcocks open for several years. The gas drained through the carbs, flooded the cylinders and evaporated. When he bought it to me, he forgot to tell me that backstory, so I proceeded to remove the stuck pistons from the cylinders assuming they were rusted into place. Tried all sorts of penetrants, heat and non-damaging force. Once I switched to serious gum-cutting solvents, the pistons started to move and I eventually got them out undamaged.

That's also why I had suggested ultrasonic cleaner. Heat makes gummed up things worst in my experience, whereas ultrasonic cleaners with just a tad of dish soap zap varnish.

I used to work in the service department for O.S. & SuperTigre model engines for the R/C industry and we'd service hundreds of small engines per week. Those glow engines for fuel use a blend of Nitromethane, Methanol, and Oil in different percentages depending on application (Marine, Aero, Dirt). When left untreated with after run engine oils for years, they would severely gum/rust up and were impossible to take apart. Running them in an ultrasonic cleaner however would break them loose in most cases.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:18:16 AM by Groover »
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #140 on: July 28, 2017, 10:01:52 AM »
The cylinder walls have deep grooves created by the oxidation of the pistons rings, the pitting is from the rust that occurred above the piston crown from the dirt that accumulated from the open intake ports and / or exhaust valves. When I got the heads off there was at least a 1/2" deep layer of crud in the cylinders. The petcocks and gas tank was full of a similar layer of dirt, rust, feathers, seeds and what appeared to be a bird or mouse skeleton. The pistons may have originally become stuck from residue fuel but after that rust took over. The crack in the cylinder base is evident in this picture. May have been caused by the hydraulic pressure of the porta-power forcing the piston down into the bore. In any event the cylinders are crap, but I got a good used set of cylinders, pistons and rings from Dieter Burian in Germany.


Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #141 on: July 28, 2017, 12:26:26 PM »
Just to follow up on the fuel taps vinegar thing:







1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #142 on: July 28, 2017, 01:35:27 PM »
WOW , I have never seen anything like that before.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2017, 09:50:10 PM »
I have been distracted from the Le Mans build for lack of an open lift at my garage so I have continued to strip the Benelli 650 Tornado down, cataloguing what is missing or damaged or beyond spec. After a couple weeks of stripping parts off the bike, cleaning the pieces as they come off I am left with this pile



All the rest is in plastic boxes awaiting reassembly, sheet metal off to the painter.

Hopefully the Laverda motor bottom end rebuild will be done this month and I can get the Laverda back together and off the lift.

If anyone is hesitant to tackle a Benelli for parts availability I am happy to report that most of the parts are available in Germany from Mr. Detlef Burian. He is very prompt with answering questions and shipping is quick, he takes PayPal. His on line catalogue is great, prices and availability are displayed online.

http://www.benelliparts.de/


canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #144 on: September 06, 2017, 10:15:35 AM »
I picked up my Benelli parts from the painter yesterday, I think he did a great job.


Offline smdl

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #145 on: September 06, 2017, 10:23:15 AM »
I picked up my Benelli parts from the painter yesterday, I think he did a great job.



Beautiful!  :drool:
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Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #146 on: September 06, 2017, 12:34:42 PM »
That looks tasty! Did you use a certain color code, or was it a paint match type of thing? Looks really good. Also, how are the decals applied (over or under clear coat)? Maybe it's paint, not decals...

That is going to look very nice, looking forward to seeing it finished.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:37:09 PM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
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1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #147 on: September 06, 2017, 02:03:02 PM »
That looks tasty! Did you use a certain color code, or was it a paint match type of thing? Looks really good. Also, how are the decals applied (over or under clear coat)? Maybe it's paint, not decals...

That is going to look very nice, looking forward to seeing it finished.

My painter was given pictures of a green / black Benelli 650 and he used a late model Guzzi paint from a V7. The green and black are paint, the white strip is a tape pin stripe with a clear coat over top. The painter rounded off the end of the white stripe just like the original paint work.

Offline Psychopasta

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #148 on: September 06, 2017, 08:58:17 PM »
A good painter is a wonderful thing. I love the green color!
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Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #149 on: September 07, 2017, 05:06:31 AM »
Looks great!!!

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