Author Topic: V7 Sport (road rash)  (Read 2802 times)

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
V7 Sport (road rash)
« on: November 27, 2021, 09:20:48 AM »
Looks like my last attempt to document my rebuild was deleted.
Iíll try again.
Frame is stripped and Iíve got both engines pre-inspected now. Iíve all but decided to run the original engine.

Now for the bad newsÖ looks like the frame is tweaked a bit. At least I think it is. It wonít sit flat, the left front is about 2mm off the ground. Is this a lot? Itís not detectable by sighting it down anywhere.

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1826
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2021, 10:14:17 AM »
2mm may not be that significant, depending upon the reason.  Is one of the down tubes bent, neck twisted, ? or is the lug at the bottom of the tube  The lower frame rails bolt in place and it isn't a press or precision fit.  Have you bolted the lowers in place to see how all aligns at that point?
 
I understand these frames are prone to cracking where the bottom of the front down tubes attach to the lugs.   If the 2mm doesn't pull the frame out of shape when lowers are installed and tightened, that's lots better than having to have cracks properly serviced.  One of my down tubes was welded/repaired & not pretty when I got the bike.  I've never fixed the repair.  Maybe someday.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2021, 04:28:46 PM »
Good points. The lower rails were loosely bolted up originally. I put them into place and the left side lined up perfect. The right side was close but not perfect. I was able to get everything bolted up no problem but the holes didnít line up absolutely perfect on that side.
Iím leaning towards running it as is.

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2021, 07:07:15 PM »
Engine stripped and getting ready for vapor honing.


The head and cylinder are empty, Iím not using either the heads or cylinders just there to protect the mating surfaces. Probably unnecessary but Iím trying to seal it up somewhat to make clean up easier.

Crank is going to the machine shop to see if it will polish up.



Rod bearings and main bearings are pretty rough.





Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2021, 07:07:15 PM »

Offline Canuck750

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1810
  • Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2021, 07:40:55 PM »
Vapour honing will not damage mating surfaces, it is safe on aluminum, steel, brass and most plastic. The glass media / water slurry is very gentle but it gets through the thinnest joints so better to send parts completely disassembled into individual pieces for vapour honing.

Shells and mains look pretty worn. Have you measured the crank bearing surfaces to determine if you will need a regrind and oversized shells and bearings? Every non filter GUZZI big twin I have rebuilt needed oversized bearings, damn chrome flakes and poorly filtered oil causes all kinds of grief. Looking at those bearings I would expect the oil pump to be worn out as well.

Glad to see you saving a rare bike! 👍
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2021, 08:39:48 PM »
Sounds like I can get by without protecting the mating surfaces with vapor honing. Can threads get damaged?

I havenít had the crank measured yet. Fingers crossed I can get away with just fresh bearings.
A fresh oil pump is in the budget.

Offline Canuck750

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1810
  • Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2021, 09:31:04 PM »
Sounds like I can get by without protecting the mating surfaces with vapor honing. Can threads get damaged?

I havenít had the crank measured yet. Fingers crossed I can get away with just fresh bearings.
A fresh oil pump is in the budget.

Vapour honing will not damage threads but blind holes can be hard to clear of media, when I can, I thread in an old bolt into the threaded hole before I vapour hone. Regardless of plugging holes or not, I chase out all threaded holes before reassembly.
Vapour honing with fine glass bead is very safe, the bead does not fracture on impact like dry blast so no tiny shards of glass bead get embedded in the porous surface of the casting. I pull all ball bearings and races out of all castings before blasting, near impossible to get the media out of a bearing. After honing I rinse and with compressed air blow dry the part then rinse and dry again. After you finish assembling the engine spray it down with brake cleaner followed with a spray and wipe of ACF-50.
Vapour honing only pulls off oxidation, it does not damage the base metal.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline Scout63

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2136
  • Location: Orleans, MA USA
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2021, 10:16:03 PM »
Czakky you should expect to run a tap through every threaded hole in the case as the media will soften up threads.  Especially vulnerable are the front timing chest and sump holes and the cylinder head rocker cover screw holes.  The result is so worth it though. More pictures please.
Ben Zehnder - Orleans, MA USA
1946 Vincent Rapide
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Combat Interstate
1973 V7 Sport
1977 Ducati 860GT
1978 Ducati 900SS
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 V1000G5
2019 Husqvarna Vitpilen 701

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1826
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2021, 07:01:34 AM »
I understand that people prefer not to have to turn these crankshafts, but do what you need to do and move forward.  If it needs turning, it doesn't look like it will need much.  Glad to see it's not badly gouged or grooved.  fwiw, my crankshaft had to be turned, so it was.  Many happy trouble-free miles since...
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2021, 07:29:36 AM »
@Canuck, I think I will go through with my original plan to seal up the cases. Should be less clean up when done I hope. I think the trans should be pretty well sealed up hopefully saving me from having to replace all the blind bearings insideÖ?

@Cliffrod: I keep going back and forth between fitting an oil filter conversion or notÖ Maybe I can see what the machine shop will charge for drilling.

Other news, it looks like Iíve got an 850t rear drive with a slightly shorter gear ratio that Iíll be using.

Offline Canuck750

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1810
  • Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2021, 08:51:12 AM »
I have been asked by many folks to vapour hone their motorcycle parts for them and regularly do so. Some folks have asked to try and blast parts with blind bearing and races left in, carefully blanking off all openings. In every case the media found itís way in. The blast cabinet runs at 90 psi pressure, trust me the slurry finds its way in. If you blast the transmission case you have to get the bearings out of the case, there is space, tiny as it is, under the bearing races. I have had my Vapour Honing cabinet for over five years now and it gets used most every day, it takes a little prep work but it is worth it.
The Vapour Honing process will not remove paint unless there is corrosion under the surface and it does not like grease or dirt, parts need to be washed before blasting.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13413
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2021, 08:55:07 AM »
Vapour honing will not damage threads but blind holes can be hard to clear of media, when I can, I thread in an old bolt into the threaded hole before I vapour hone. Regardless of plugging holes or not, I chase out all threaded holes before reassembly.
Vapour honing with fine glass bead is very safe, the bead does not fracture on impact like dry blast so no tiny shards of glass bead get embedded in the porous surface of the casting. I pull all ball bearings and races out of all castings before blasting, near impossible to get the media out of a bearing. After honing I rinse and with compressed air blow dry the part then rinse and dry again. After you finish assembling the engine spray it down with brake cleaner followed with a spray and wipe of ACF-50.
Vapour honing only pulls off oxidation, it does not damage the base metal.

Cleaning very thoroughly is super important no matter the method or media. The last Morini 3 1/2 engine build I did for a customer had been vapor blasted by him and media was packed in bolt holes and crevices like concrete. Very hard to remove - for M6 bolt holes I ended up using a .22 caliber rifle cleaning brush!

Not all dry blasting machines are created equal. The machine shop that cleans my cases has a shot peening machine made by Blast-It-All which they run at 15 psi. The blast media (Potters Ballotini) does not fracture at such low pressure so there is zero chance of any of it being embedded. They plug all bolt holes and oil galleries, mask most gasket surfaces and clean the part three times.

https://blast-it-all.com/abc-shot-peener/?v=2e5df5aa3470
https://www.milessupply.com/product/ballotini-glass-bead-abrasive/ 
Charlie

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1826
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2021, 09:35:28 AM »
Cleaning very thoroughly is super important no matter the method or media. The last Morini 3 1/2 engine build I did for a customer had been vapor blasted by him and media was packed in bolt holes and crevices like concrete. Very hard to remove - for M6 bolt holes I ended up using a .22 caliber rifle cleaning brush!

Not all dry blasting machines are created equal. The machine shop that cleans my cases has a shot peening machine made by Blast-It-All which they run at 15 psi. The blast media (Potters Ballotini) does not fracture at such low pressure so there is zero chance of any of it being embedded. They plug all bolt holes and oil galleries, mask most gasket surfaces and clean the part three times.

https://blast-it-all.com/abc-shot-peener/?v=2e5df5aa3470
https://www.milessupply.com/product/ballotini-glass-bead-abrasive/

^^^^I'll add my recommendation for and complete confidence in product & services offered by Miles Supply.  I've used them as my primary go-to supplier for decades, both via Barre, VT and Elberton, GA, for all kinds of products and tools used in my granite work.  Absolute top notch, industry-professional-level company.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2022, 07:19:19 PM »
Engine and trans cases back from vapor blast. They turned out really nice. Iíve been cleaning gasket surfaces and chasing all threads with a tap. I will clean everything out with brake cleaner tomorrow give it wash in the slop sink and blow dry with compressed air. Iím waiting on the verdict on my crank at the machine shop. Then MG cycle will have a big order headed there way.
Im on the look out for a good stainless hardware set when Iím ready for assembly.




damaged smileys

Offline Canuck750

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1810
  • Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2022, 06:34:06 PM »
Lovely!  :thumb:
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2022, 05:14:13 AM »
One of my mechanically weak points is gears and transmissions. Iím scared to death of bevel gears! Itís a totally dark art to me.
Before I start reassembling the trans on this bike Iíd like opinions on condition. Iím going to replace any dogs available and bearings. Sorry my photos arenít great.

Thoughts?






Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13413
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2022, 08:44:04 AM »
One of my mechanically weak points is gears and transmissions. Iím scared to death of bevel gears! Itís a totally dark art to me.
Before I start reassembling the trans on this bike Iíd like opinions on condition. Iím going to replace any dogs available and bearings. Sorry my photos arenít great.

Thoughts?







Those dogs are rounded off worse than any I've seen.  :shocked: The cost of 5 spd. parts adds up very quickly. You might consider buying these: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=113723.0 You might be $$ ahead in the long run.
Charlie

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2022, 09:14:03 AM »
Thanks Charlie, Iíll do some research on gear ratios and get a hold of seller. :cry:

jwinwi

  • Guest
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2022, 01:34:10 PM »
Price on the 5 dog guts seems good...
Charlie, if Bill's shift drum is the old V7 Sport, 1 up 4 down, it can be re-used right?

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2022, 03:42:14 PM »
Thanks John, another great pointÖ I kept wavering between doing a LH or RH shift on this bike and was about to settle on RHÖ Oy! This might push me back to a LH conversion.
This project is fighting me a bit!

jwinwi

  • Guest
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2022, 04:28:16 PM »
Thanks John, another great pointÖ I kept wavering between doing a LH or RH shift on this bike and was about to settle on RHÖ Oy! This might push me back to a LH conversion.
This project is fighting me a bit!

As one of the smartest guys on WG has been known to say: 'It's testing you to make sure you are worthy of owning it'   :thumb:
I don't know why modern 5 dog guts would not work with the original shift drum. Totally different than 'It will work' :laugh:


Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13413
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2022, 08:45:06 PM »
Price on the 5 dog guts seems good...
Charlie, if Bill's shift drum is the old V7 Sport, 1 up 4 down, it can be re-used right?

Yes, he should be able to reuse it.
Charlie

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2022, 09:22:04 AM »
Powder coater called and said my parts were ready :drool:. Iíll be able to pick them up on Monday.

In the meantime Iíve got a shipment coming from HMB on its way with a bunch of cool parts that will get me closer to completing my engine.

Heads are at the machine shop along with my crank and rods. There was basically no good news. From wrist pin bushings down to the crank everything must be re-ground. They are going 1st under on the crank and fabbing up new small end bushingsÖ. Also, k-lining valve guides. 1st under rear mains are nowhere to be found so they are going to give the 2nd under acquired from Harpers a haircut.

In the meantime Iíll be rebuilding the trans with all new bearings, seals and gaskets.

Iíve got a question about the console color. What color is a good match for the gauge surround and idiot light holder?

Thanks for any input

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13413
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2022, 07:17:23 PM »
Iíve got a question about the console color. What color is a good match for the gauge surround and idiot light holder?

Wrinkle black. I had my powder coater do it.
Charlie

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2022, 07:25:50 AM »
Wrinkle black. I had my powder coater do it.

Is that what the Sports were originally?

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13413
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2022, 08:47:20 AM »
Is that what the Sports were originally?

In my experience, yes. Every original V7 Sport I've worked on has had wrinkle black there.
Charlie

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2022, 10:20:33 AM »
Pushing forward, slowly. Iíve got the triples assembled but canít get the play out of the top triple. Iím pretty sure itís not supposed to have this much play.

Bearings are seated all the way Iíve tried both ways with the steering lock. Iíve got all parts installed from the schematic.

Is that the way these are?






Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 13413
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2022, 02:43:36 PM »
Normal in the first photo. The top stem nut will protrude like that. It's really just locking the lower nut into place and won't turn once the pinch bolt is tightened.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 02:45:31 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Online czakky82

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 478
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2022, 04:33:39 PM »
Thanks for the vote of confidence.  :thumb:

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1826
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: V7 Sport (road rash)
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2022, 06:50:21 PM »
yup- another positive vote for what you're showing,  top nut looks like mine  wrinkle paint looks good & dash should match the triple tree clamps.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz


Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride , Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here
 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here