T3 vs Le Mans I: 1976 long-distance, high-speed comparison

[moto]

I just found a long-distance, high-speed comparison of the Le Mans I and the 850-T3 from October, 1976. It was an article in the British magazine, Motor Cycle Mechanics. The two bikes were ridden together, "keeping up an average speed of nearly 60 mph for three days and 1400 miles over totally unknown roads through six European countries."

It should be interesting reading for owners of either bike. The T3 did better than the writers expected, and seems to be their preference for this sort of duty, reading between the lines.

https://tinyurl.com/2yzpujdh

Moto

[PeteS]

Interesting. Numbers seem about right for stock machines. A different seat on the LeMans would have made it a bit more comfortable for touring. Speedos are useless. Mine has always wavered up and down by about 15 MPH. I was able to get a 13  flat quarter after Manfred flowed the heads and lightened the flywheel plus a Rennsport exhaust.. Stock cam though which I believe is the same as the T3.

Pete

[steven c]

 Thanks for sharing, Having owned both ( still have a Leman's) I agree pretty much with what they said.

[Tkelly]

This article reminds me of what cycle magazines used to be as opposed to the joke most of them are today.The constant carping about linked brakes  by self appointed experts who never did a ride like these guys really would make me laugh if not for the fact that Guzzi finally gave up making them.The fact that some racers didn’t like them had no relevance to real world riding on public roads.Thanks for posting.

[Speciality]

Thanks for posting. We used to call that mag Motorcycle Maniacs here in the UK. It used to have a lot of handy articles on servicing and repairing bikes. Long since gone, but the best then (and now) was Motorcycle Sport (now Motorcycle Sport and Leisure), though it is a shadow of its former self. I'm currently ploughing through the back issues - I had a full set from 1973 at one time, though I don't buy the current version unless the content seems worth it. Today's mags are nowhere near as good as they used to be...

[moto]

... The constant carping about linked brakes  by self appointed experts who never did a ride like these guys really would make me laugh if not for the fact that Guzzi finally gave up making them.The fact that some racers didn’t like them had no relevance to real world riding on public roads.Thanks for posting.

I noticed that the riders in this high-speed trip reported using the foot pedal for braking as Guzzi intended.

That is, per the recommendation in the Motociclismo T3 review that included official Guzzi, Bremo, and Pirelli participation, Guzzi intended us to do routine braking using only the foot pedal, with the front brake lever reserved for emergencies or other high speed maximum braking.

Since reading the Motociclismo article I've been weaning myself off of the front lever and just using the foot pedal. I find it works well, and seems less and less unnatural. The Motorcycle Mechanics riders liked it too.

Moto

[centauro]

Thanks for posting. We used to call that mag Motorcycle Maniacs here in the UK. It used to have a lot of handy articles on servicing and repairing bikes. Long since gone, but the best then (and now) was Motorcycle Sport (now Motorcycle Sport and Leisure), though it is a shadow of its former self. I'm currently ploughing through the back issues - I had a full set from 1973 at one time, though I don't buy the current version unless the content seems worth it. Today's mags are nowhere near as good as they used to be...

Yes, Motorcycle Sport was my favorite magazine as well, when I was stationed in England on behalf of the US Military from 1974-77. All the articles were very enjoyable to read. In particular, I loved the "Motorcyclist at War" section, covering the many models that were in use by the Allies in WW2. Very little advertising, and much content to read.

[blackcat]

Since reading the Motociclismo article I've been weaning myself off of the front lever and just using the foot pedal. I find it works well, and seems less and less unnatural. The Motorcycle Mechanics riders liked it too.

Moto

Me too until I locked up the brake on my 1000S in a panic stop from getting so use to the linked brakes on my CX.  The CX was then de-linked.

[rustygman]

Thanks for posting and what a great reminder of how much more in depth magazine reviews used to be. I too was a fan of motorcycle sport during the 70's and 80's and kept a few which contained reviews of bikes I owned over the years.

Out of interest I ran a inflation calculator against the price of a new Le Mans in Oct 1976 at £2,000. That would be just short of £14,000 in today's English pounds so a relatively similar price.

[john fish]

Thanks for the article.  Great stuff.

[yackee]

When I first got my T3 I got the stereotypical idea of making it into a cafe racer, with clip-ons, rear sets, and a repro Le Mans fairing. The effect was to place all of my weight on my wrists and crotch. After about 100 miles of pain I turned the T3 back into a T3 with regular pegs and Ambo bars. I wish now that I had never taken off the floorboards. They seemed so uncool at the time, but they were really, really comfortable.

[moto-uno]

 When I bought this new it was a Le Mans2 and I was in my 30's ! It's morphed over the years into
what's almost a T-3 and I've just gotten old :) . But I did put 3300km on in 4 days of riding to and
from the Broken Arrow gathering in Idaho . Would have been impossible if it was stock !  Peter

[PeteS]

Great pic. I could use higher bars on mine too. Wrists can’t handle long rides anymore.

Pete

[Scout63]

When I got my first Guzzi I read that article til the words got thin.  That was the impetus for T-3izing my G5. Sorry Groover.

[SmithSwede]

Interesting article.  But I got pretty confused about the massive speedometer error they reported on.   

At first it sounds like they are blitzing across Europe at 95+ mph.

 

But by the end of the article you reckon they were actually tootling along at a genuine 75.  Which would explain the decent gas mileage and lack of speeding tickets.

[moto]

Interesting article.  But I got pretty confused about the massive speedometer error they reported on.   

At first it sounds like they are blitzing across Europe at 95+ mph.

 

But by the end of the article you reckon they were actually tootling along at a genuine 75.  Which would explain the decent gas mileage and lack of speeding tickets.

Those were miles per Imperial gallon, so adjusted to U.S. gallons the average was 40.7 (instead of 48.9) for the Le Mans, and 44.9 (instead of 53.9) for the T3. These seem more plausible values for a mix of 90 mph on the thruways and lower speeds on rural roads.

As for speeding tickets, I don't think there were any speed limits on many European thruways at the time, and that there was weak enforcement of speeding laws where limits existed. The road test article says, "These days high speed, long distance riding can only mean the Continent, especially if your license is badly scarred...." The United Kingdom did not have a speed limit on its motorways between 1930 and 1967, according to the Wikipedia "Speed Limit" article, so the author's reference to "these days" would be a bitter recollection of the old days without speed limits in the U.K.

Since the two bikes' speedometers were reading different speeds, the authors would have had to have made approximate adjustments of some kind, but given the above and the fact that they carefully report on the difference between true speeds and speedometer speeds at various places, I am inclined to think that they meant 90 true miles per hour, etc., when they reported it.

[LowRyter]

 When I bought this new it was a Le Mans2 and I was in my 30's ! It's morphed over the years into
what's almost a T-3 and I've just gotten old :) . But I did put 3300km on in 4 days of riding to and
from the Broken Arrow gathering in Idaho . Would have been impossible if it was stock !  Peter