Author Topic: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show  (Read 9392 times)

Offline Ed / AF1 Racing

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2024, 11:38:40 AM »
hoping they would have shown the baby Guzzi leaked in some spy photos.

Offline MGrego

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2024, 11:42:09 AM »
some V100 info









The V100 "Wind Tunnel" version is interesting, looks like it has everything the "S" version has except the PFF rider assistance stuff.... cool graphics too

https://www.cycleworld.com/bikes/moto-guzzi-v100-mandello-range-first-look/

https://www.1000ps.at/motorrad-bilder-detail-moto-guzzi-v100-mandello-wind-tunnel-2025-23775

« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 12:43:02 PM by MGrego »

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2024, 02:34:33 PM »
Let me make a prediction. Won't happen.  :smiley: I'm still waiting for the Ippogriffo..
You may make that prediction Chuck, but that’s EXACTLY what some established luminaries said about the V85..
One bloke had the guts to admit he was wrong here on these pages.
Do we need to pull up the old thread ?

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2024, 02:42:23 PM »
What buyers want is an 850 version of the new liquid motor in a suitably V7 sized chassis, proper Ohlins inspired front end (or the actual thing), twin discs, a wholesale reduction in the electronic gimmickery that has you taking the thing back to the dealer, no stupid “aggressive” straight line/slash cut styling and that utterly chunder inducing cocked up tail piece that is just garbage.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 02:44:22 PM by Huzo »

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2024, 02:42:23 PM »

Offline Dr. Enzo Toma

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2024, 04:10:12 PM »
Buyers don't all want the same thing. I likely wouldn't have bought a liquid-cooled V7. It being air-cooled was a major selling point over a Kawasaki Z900RS for me. Doesn't mean I don't like the liquid-cooled V100 though, as it's a much different type of bike and the liquid-cooling suits it better IMO.

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2024, 04:55:19 PM »
Buyers don't all want the same thing. I likely wouldn't have bought a liquid-cooled V7. It being air-cooled was a major selling point over a Kawasaki Z900RS for me. Doesn't mean I don't like the liquid-cooled V100 though, as it's a much different type of bike and the liquid-cooling suits it better IMO.
I’ll concede that not all buyers want the same thing, but even if 3% of the motorcycle buying public wanted a liquid cooled 850 cc Guzzi, that would still translate out to 100’s of thousands of orders.
Also there have been a hell of a lot of people turn away from a V85 to get something else because of easily remedied things like excessive seat heights or too heavy (V100), (new Stelvio) et al…
The best R&D people are the buying public….Listen to them…!

Offline bad Chad

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2024, 05:15:13 PM »
I think the v85 has sold far better than Huzo seems to want to give credit to.   

Huzo said, "I’ll concede that not all buyers want the same thing, but even if 3% of the motorcycle buying public wanted a liquid cooled 850 cc Guzzi, that would still translate out to 100’s of thousands of orders."

What???   I guess, even though it makes very little sense to say so, you are using all motorcycle sales world wide for this?   But even using your numbers, there is NO WAY Guzzi is going to get orders for "100s of thousands" for an 850 liquid cooled twin!  Seriously, think about what your saying!

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2024, 06:51:52 PM »
I think the v85 has sold far better than Huzo seems to want to give credit to.   

Huzo said, "I’ll concede that not all buyers want the same thing, but even if 3% of the motorcycle buying public wanted a liquid cooled 850 cc Guzzi, that would still translate out to 100’s of thousands of orders."

What???   I guess, even though it makes very little sense to say so, you are using all motorcycle sales world wide for this?   But even using your numbers, there is NO WAY Guzzi is going to get orders for "100s of thousands" for an 850 liquid cooled twin!  Seriously, think about what your saying!
For starters mate it’s “you’re” not “your”, but we‘ll get back to that.
I know how well the V85 sold and I did my bit there. I do not think that MG could cope with one tenth of that demand but what I contend is this…
For every new bike you see on the road that someone has paid hard earned money for, there are a LOT of bikes the buyer chose not to get and we’ll never know why they went elsewhere, but my point was and still is that over a massive target audience, you only have to capture a trifling percentage increase in hits, and that is a massive increase in orders.
Strangely, it’s a lot like elections….. :wink:
Oh and BTW.
I’ll think about what I’m saying if you think about what you’re typing, the only bit of your post that wasn’t riddled with grammatical errors was between the quotation marks.
I’ve survived on this forum because I DO think about what I’m saying, it can be a slippery slope BC.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 07:34:58 PM by Huzo »

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2024, 07:47:13 PM »
I’ll concede that not all buyers want the same thing, but even if 3% of the motorcycle buying public wanted a liquid cooled 850 cc Guzzi, that would still translate out to 100’s of thousands of orders.

Congratulations, you've qualified as the owner of the most ridiculous hyperbole ever thrust upon WG members.

For this completely made up statistic coupled with a pure fantasy that is contradicted by the entire production history of the brand, you'll receive a lifetime supply of "WTF"!

« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 07:49:36 PM by Kev m »
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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2024, 07:56:09 PM »
Congratulations, you've qualified as the owner of the most ridiculous hyperbole ever thrust upon WG members.

For this completely made up statistic coupled with a pure fantasy that is contradicted by the entire production history of the brand, you'll receive a lifetime supply of "WTF"!

I considered all that filler material. The primary purpose of Huzo’s comment was clearly to protect the English language in written form ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 09:04:44 PM by Dirk_S »
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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2024, 10:37:11 PM »
Congratulations, you've qualified as the owner of the most ridiculous hyperbole ever thrust upon WG members.

For this completely made up statistic coupled with a pure fantasy that is contradicted by the entire production history of the brand, you'll receive a lifetime supply of "WTF"!
Yeah I always back off a bit when you weigh in Kev. Sure the numbers can be hacked back into reality to protect the innocent and I’ll wear that.
Can you give some consideration to my point though, I guess if I have to be held to realistic margins, my point is that the buying public is so large, that a relatively small advance percentage wise in sales, will add up to a large increase in potential orders. It can be in the positive or a couple of poor decisions can send you under.
As for the production history of the brand, there was a time when they were pretty much on the skids but a redirecting of course has boosted sales and profits.

Offline aproud1

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2024, 06:18:59 AM »
An air cooled motorcycle with decent performance, cruise control, and options under $10k. I would think this is going to be a bigger hit with people than previous iterations of the V7. Not a drastic design change but still looks way cool and seems a smart design evolution.
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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2024, 06:20:41 AM »
Yeah I always back off a bit when you weigh in Kev. Sure the numbers can be hacked back into reality to protect the innocent and I’ll wear that.
Can you give some consideration to my point though, I guess if I have to be held to realistic margins, my point is that the buying public is so large, that a relatively small advance percentage wise in sales, will add up to a large increase in potential orders. It can be in the positive or a couple of poor decisions can send you under.
As for the production history of the brand, there was a time when they were pretty much on the skids but a redirecting of course has boosted sales and profits.

Of course Guzzis numbers are such a miniscule part of the industry that a single percent could mean a lot.

What I don't necessarily buy is that your proposal would guarantee such a percentage.

I mean are the V100's flying off the shelf?

Water-cooling is a non-starter to me personally. I don't NEED the performance, so I don't WANT the complexity.

I'm certainly not alone since even BMW has taken steps backwards away from it.

I think if it weren't for emissions regulations trying to wag the dog the MARKET wouldn't be pushing it even as much as it does.

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Offline bad Chad

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2024, 08:30:28 AM »
Going after a person for their poor grammar, is about the lowest hanging fruit a guy can grab.   If we were speaking instead of writing would you call me out for poor use of the language?   You wouldn't need to, as my spoken word is far stronger than my admittedly weak hold on the written side.   

I don't usually go here, but I will today.   I have dealt with dyslexia my whole life, I was teased at great length from first grade up, always the first or second out on a spelling bee, poor grades, remedial english class, the list goes on longer than I care to revisit.   Spell check has been a huge help, but I clearly don't have a great handle on how to use that either, and that's on me.   Anyway, I still disagree with you, Huzo, on the subject at hand.  And I understand from your post that I don't have the kind of respect that you show to others.   Respect is earned, as the saying goes, perhaps at  some point I'll get there.
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Offline red stripeguz

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2024, 09:44:54 AM »
For starters mate it’s “you’re” not “your”, but we‘ll get back to that.
I know how well the V85 sold and I did my bit there. I do not think that MG could cope with one tenth of that demand but what I contend is this…
For every new bike you see on the road that someone has paid hard earned money for, there are a LOT of bikes the buyer chose not to get and we’ll never know why they went elsewhere, but my point was and still is that over a massive target audience, you only have to capture a trifling percentage increase in hits, and that is a massive increase in orders.
Strangely, it’s a lot like elections….. :wink:
Oh and BTW.
I’ll think about what I’m saying if you think about what you’re typing, the only bit of your post that wasn’t riddled with grammatical errors was between the quotation marks.
I’ve survived on this forum because I DO think about what I’m saying, it can be a slippery slope BC.

You're missing a couple of commas, since we've reduced ourselves to being pedantic grammar Nazis.
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Offline ScepticalScotty

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2024, 12:39:04 PM »
I think an 850 w/c half faired Breva 750 replacement would "do well" but of course what do I mean by that? Just because I would like to ride such a thing doesn't mean lots of people agree with me. After all, I like bagpipe music from the 1600s.......
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Offline Joliet Jim

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2024, 08:15:59 AM »
  Respect is earned, as the saying goes, perhaps at  some point I'll get there.

You've had my respect for many years.
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Offline jcctx

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2024, 09:35:04 AM »
Who else would like to see a single using one barrel of the 850 oriented like the old Guzzi single with a balance shaft and chain or belt drive??

Not that it would do me any good as my eyes no longer support riding!!!

Offline Dr. Enzo Toma

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2024, 11:30:14 AM »
Who else would like to see a single using one barrel of the 850 oriented like the old Guzzi single with a balance shaft and chain or belt drive??

Not that it would do me any good as my eyes no longer support riding!!!

I would certainly like to ogle that as a concept bike, but I don't think it would do well on the market. Ducati allegedly kicked around the idea of dropping a cylinder from their Scrambler for a lower displacement version, but ended up going with a smaller bore and stroke on the L-twin as a Ducati Scrambler Sixty2. Even with the reduced price, it did not sell well. On the other end of the spectrum there is also the Ducati Scrambler 1100 which has not sold well. The 800 seems to have been the sweet spot for price, power, and weight.

Offline auzziguzzi

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2024, 05:04:16 PM »
Who else would like to see a single using one barrel of the 850 oriented like the old Guzzi single with a balance shaft and chain or belt drive??

Not that it would do me any good as my eyes no longer support riding!!!

Not so much a single as a 650cc version (reduced stroke?) of the V85 or V7 released for the Australian market so that our learner riders could start out on a Guzzi.  Heck, they even built such a machine in the '90s called the NTX650 with a US 8 gallon (30 litre) tank.

It would introduce new riders to the characteristics of an air-cooled, 90 degree V-twin and might even build some brand loyalty.
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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2024, 07:04:56 PM »
Who else would like to see a single using one barrel of the 850 oriented like the old Guzzi single with a balance shaft and chain or belt drive??

Not that it would do me any good as my eyes no longer support riding!!!



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Offline egschade

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2024, 09:42:04 AM »
Not so much a single as a 650cc version (reduced stroke?) of the V85 or V7 released for the Australian market so that our learner riders could start out on a Guzzi.  Heck, they even built such a machine in the '90s called the NTX650 with a US 8 gallon (30 litre) tank.

It would introduce new riders to the characteristics of an air-cooled, 90 degree V-twin and might even build some brand loyalty.

That's something I'd love to see. Tiered licensing in Europe would also support a smaller displacement bike. That said I suspect Piaggio has other brands to fill the lower displacement market like the Aprilia 457 and that Guzzi will remain their 'luxury' brand.
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Offline Dr. Enzo Toma

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #82 on: November 13, 2024, 01:12:05 AM »
Something I noticed in some of the EICMA photos is that the heated handgrips icon is on for one of the V7 models. I wonder if this means the OEM accessory heated grips will finally be released for the V7 850.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2024, 01:12:39 AM by Dr. Enzo Toma »

Offline Yan

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2024, 12:50:42 PM »
Something I noticed in some of the EICMA photos is that the heated handgrips icon is on for one of the V7 models. I wonder if this means the OEM accessory heated grips will finally be released for the V7 850.

Yes, I think so:



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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2024, 02:14:45 PM »
Hamlin has a fantastic mod for the V7 single disk that does everything you just described without the added weight.  Must be experienced to be believed.
He really is a master at that stuff.
What is the modification ?

Offline Dr. Enzo Toma

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2024, 09:57:19 PM »
What is the modification ?

From Jim @ Hamlin Cycles when I inquired with that very question:
"We replace the caliper and the master cylinder with higher spec Brembo items. The parts cost @$1000, plus a couple hours of installation. The results are dramatic!"

I didn't pursue beyond that, but I suspect it may be the Brembo 4-pad caliper paired with a Brembo RCS master cylinder that you can find documentation of others swapping onto the V7. GTM also sell those parts as braking upgrades for the V7.

Offline Motormike

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #86 on: November 15, 2024, 02:30:51 PM »
Seriously, think about what your saying!
Like that will ever happen! :grin:

Offline adri

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2024, 12:12:34 AM »
What buyers want is an 850 version of the new liquid motor in a suitably V7 sized chassis, proper Ohlins inspired front end (or the actual thing), twin discs, a wholesale reduction in the electronic gimmickery that has you taking the thing back to the dealer, no stupid “aggressive” straight line/slash cut styling and that utterly chunder inducing cocked up tail piece that is just garbage.

I just want a bigger f***ing frame so I can take my girlfriend for a ride without the two of us (who only weigh a combined 305 lbs, but aren't short) feeling like a couple of circus bears on a gawdamn miniature tricycle.

The woman who has sat on the back seat of a 650cc BMW for multiple 2,000 km road trips with me hates being on the back of the V7, and between you and me, I hate her on the back of the V7 too.

As she isn't able to get a license, we do a lot of riding together, and with multiple motorcycles and even a Vespa in the garage, we'll always take literallyanythingbu tthev7 as our ride of choice.

Offline adri

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2024, 12:19:30 AM »
Buyers don't all want the same thing. I likely wouldn't have bought a liquid-cooled V7. It being air-cooled was a major selling point over a Kawasaki Z900RS for me. Doesn't mean I don't like the liquid-cooled V100 though, as it's a much different type of bike and the liquid-cooling suits it better IMO.

If you don't dislike in-line fours, get the Z900RS. It's so, sooooo good.

I owned a Z900RS while I was making my "Best Mid-Size Retro Motorcycle Series" on YouTube comparing the V7 I vs the Bonneville SE, vs the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650.

A few people thought it was weird that I put "Mid-Size" in the title, and that I put a low maximum budget on the bikes in the contest. The reason for both was because I owned the Z900RS at the time, and I needed to keep that bike OUT of the contest, because it would absolutely wipe the floor with any of those three motorcycles, in any category. It would've been an absolutely one-sided contest.

Ok, maybe the V7 would've won for character, but besides that, Z900RS, top grades across the board.

It was even better than the other motorcycles at two up riding. Even through some aggressive twisties and technical riding, the Z900RS carried my girlfriend on the back so well, that I probably felt her the least on that motorcycle versus any of the others.

My only knock against the Z900RS, which is ultimately why I sold it, was that I just can't stand inline 4s for long. I'm probably some kind of autistic, but the hum of in-line four motorcycles, and vacuum cleaners, I can't stand it.

If you like in-line fours, you will absolutely love the Z900RS. If you can find a used SE with the upgraded shocks, even better, but even the base model is everything a motorcycle should be. It's really a fantastic machine. I absolutely loved it but I couldn't stand the sound of the motor for long because I'm built weird.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2024, 12:21:18 AM by adri »

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Re: EICMA 2024 Milan Motorcycle Show
« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2024, 06:07:08 AM »
I hate 2-up riding period.

But when I do it nothing compares to a bike designed for it, like my old Road Kings.

We do use our V7's for 2-up once in a while, with our kids as passengers. That's it.
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