Author Topic: "Guzzi has lost it's way"  (Read 34433 times)

Offline steven c

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"Guzzi has lost it's way"
« on: January 05, 2015, 11:15:06 AM »
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Offline not-fishing

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 12:03:48 PM »
And a $40,000 Guzzi is the answer?

Feels like a journalists Troll.
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Offline dan_s

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 12:29:50 PM »
Guzzi has not lost its way, its been stuck on the road since the Daytona. The only bike with additional value in their current line is the griso.
Is this the same firm that built top technology racers for decades up till the 50's?
It's a shame that the new heads described in the article make the workshops guzzis twice as expensive.

Offline sib

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 12:31:27 PM »
No thanks, I'll watch from a safe distance as these obsessives create the monster machines for outrageous prices that will be actually purchased by about six dilettantes worldwide.  If you think you need more than 60 hp in a bike that you are going to ride on real streets, you need to stop smoking that stuff and sober up.
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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 12:31:27 PM »

Offline pebra

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 12:48:31 PM »
Thanks, that was interesting! Inseveral ways.......
I'd like to remind the author of the article though, that it doesn't matter if Guzzi makes even more exciting bikes. Without a vastly improved sales organisation all efforts on the design and construction side will come to nothing.
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Offline twhitaker

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 12:53:00 PM »
As long as Guzzi has a step-mother, wicked or not, she will never even get a look at the glass slipper.  :'(
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Offline Mark West

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 01:03:02 PM »
My hope is that Guzzi is working on a new mill for a new series of sport bikes; both naked and faired and will release it when ready. With all the money and resources needed to do something really new, its no surprise that they would take their time. They have updated the small block, replaced the tonti frame, and created an adv bike. I know they have Aprilia as a sport bike brand but it seems unlikely they would let Guzzi go without any sport offerings so it seems that would be next on the drawing board and I do expect whatever they come up with will be quite different from any past sport offerings. I hope I'm right.
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Offline Gliderjohn

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 01:30:19 PM »
Now if they would just supply a few more dealers.
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 01:38:15 PM »
My hope is that Guzzi is working on a new mill for a new series of sport bikes; both naked and faired and will release it when ready. With all the money and resources needed to do something really new, its no surprise that they would take their time. They have updated the small block, replaced the tonti frame, and created an adv bike. I know they have Aprilia as a sport bike brand but it seems unlikely they would let Guzzi go without any sport offerings so it seems that would be next on the drawing board and I do expect whatever they come up with will be quite different from any past sport offerings. I hope I'm right.

Something really new?  I bet against that every time with Guzzi.  I have one word; Harley.  What do they do that's so cutting edge?  New power plants per se?  Let everyone else compete at the top hp market and keep on doing what you're doing seems to work just fine.  In fact, it separates you from the others in the end.  Is Harley unique?  You bet they are and getting more so every day.  For Guzzi to get back to their racing days they'd have to completely reinvent themselves and prove to the world they are racers.  It's simply been too long since they're last race.  They are essentially an unknown company to most, but pretty unique when people find out about them.  Unique in an old fresh way of air-cooled V-twins. They won't be doing anything unpredictable anytime soon.  Still waiting for the re-fresh of the sb like they did with the bb!!!!!!!

Too much $$ for these MP bikes but cool to see what's possible with this lump.
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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 01:55:24 PM »
The future? Dealers on Wheels!  ;D



Make it sound like an Ice Cream truck and get em while they are young!

« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 01:56:03 PM by Penderic »

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 02:13:38 PM »
My hope is that Guzzi is working on a new mill for a new series of sport bikes; both naked and faired and will release it when ready. With all the money and resources needed to do something really new, its no surprise that they would take their time. They have updated the small block, replaced the tonti frame, and created an adv bike. I know they have Aprilia as a sport bike brand but it seems unlikely they would let Guzzi go without any sport offerings so it seems that would be next on the drawing board and I do expect whatever they come up with will be quite different from any past sport offerings. I hope I'm right.

Piaggio have owned Guzzi for almost eleven years.

In that time they have killed the V11 Sport / LeMans line and killed the MGS-01, but they have not released anything as sporting to replace them.

No, the mile-long Griso doesn't count.  It's a standard.

The spine-frame bikes were the last link to the Guzzi racing heritage.  Piaggio broke that chain and it does not look like they care to fix it.

While Piaggio/Guzzi do make nice bikes, they don't currently have anything available in the dealership that interests me.

Sucks, too, as I really love the marque.

If they'd ever do something about the engine in the small block, or come out with a worthy successor to the V11 line, I'd be more motivated.  For now, I will just ride my Sport 1100 and enjoy its link to Guzzi's former glory.
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Online bad Chad

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2015, 02:30:20 PM »
It's clear that MG is not going factory racing in the forceable future.  They do however have a void in their line up, that of a sporting bike, they know this.  Word last year was they are well along on a new power plant with some level of liquid cooling, that I feel confident we will see my the big EU shows of 2015.   You may recall we were told we would see it this year, but it was held back, kind of like the Cal 1400 was held back until they felt they got it right.

The hole needs filling, and I can't wait to see what shows up this year to do it! 8)
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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2015, 02:44:32 PM »
My guess is they will eventually, when the economy is stronger, launch a new 'Sporting' bike. I also expect that most of the people clamouring for them to do so will stay away from it in droves!

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Offline Mark West

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2015, 02:57:06 PM »
When I said something new, I didn't intend it to mean anything in regards to racing or even being competitive performance wise, with the established superbike offerings. Racing is a giant money suck and the Guzzi mounted V-twin and shaft drive (assuming those things remain) are not going to be competitive with high performance machines from any of the major players. Aprilia fills that space for Piaggio.

What they could do is something similar to a millipercento mill, with 120HP or so, put it in a completely new frame and give it some advanced electronics like multiple fuel maps, traction control, suspension settings, and some of the other goodies that Ducati and others already have. And do all of it without having to charge a kings ransom for it. Don't make it so sporty, that you can't spend more than a couple hours on it.
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Offline segesta

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 03:00:31 PM »
Now if they would just supply a few more dealers.

I don't think it's the number of dealers, it's the quality of them. Chicagoland has (had?) three Guzzi dealers: Fox Valley Harley, Vespa Downers Grove, and Rose Farm Classics. None are more than 30 miles away if you live in the area.

But if you go into the first two places and ask about Moto Guzzi motorcycles, they look at you funny and steer you toward a Harley or a scooter. On the other hand, neither of those dealers is great at customer service anyway. It would be interesting to see the results if a top-notch dealer, like MCC in Villa Park or Heritage Harley in Lisle, decided to sell Guzzi.
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Online bad Chad

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 03:11:54 PM »
Dealers are always a spark!  There is none better than Rosefarm Classics, however, it is not for everyone.   I have been to Wind City Triumph, and depending on the day and who was working the floor, there excitment for Guzzi varied wildley.

But to the point, great dealers are everything to brand like Guzzi.  Slowly Piaggio seems to be learning this, I hope it keeps going in the right direction.

Now what Chicago land needs it a kick but Aprillia shop???
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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2015, 03:27:43 PM »
He lost me after the first few paragraphs.  Piaggio has simply paid the bills, but done very little to reinvigorate the brand and dealer network, or better yet, what network!  In all honesty, I love my Breva 750 but, like many, I keep looking at newer or different models. I stopped checking out the Guzzi site a long time ago, same old bikes, with few exceptions or a couple of modifications, ho hum!  I would love a smaller adventure Tourer but not the Stelvio, I have no interest in a 600+ pound behemoth.  I bet you can take a photo of the model line up from 4 years ago and hold it next to the current line up and ask someone who doesn't know MG to pick the most up to date and they would be hard pressed....

Offline pebra

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2015, 04:12:13 PM »
I'd guess Piaggio must realise that there's not really any point in branding their sporty bikes Aprilia only  -  as far as I know they don't sell any Aprilias!
Travelling in Europe I see few Guzzis, but almost no Aprilias at all. This is very strikingly in Italy itself.
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andrewdonald1

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2015, 05:12:26 PM »
I don't know... I ride my Stelvio and think its perfect for an every day bike.
105 HP is enough on the street IMHO.
It handles and brakes great.

I haven't ridden a Norge but I assume it does the same thing.

The Griso is a great bike..I really like that one.

My point is: What is the target audience of MG?  Middle aged?  It seems so in general.  Didn't Aprilia go for broke when they purchased MG back in mid 2000's and that technology is in the current line up?  My point is:  pumping out a leader in sport bikes.. isn't going to happen.  And why would it?  Piaggo has the Aprilia wing for that. 
I believe in general their target audience is middle aged. 
So maybe the question is:  do they make another sporty bike.. well I guess you mean something a little more harder edged towards the sporting chassis side of things.
If you are not racing the bike, and you're riding it in the street.. I guess maybe you want something a little lighter?  Bundled up like a pretzel?  Or more like a reboot of the V11 series?
That might fly...

That's my 2 cents.  I think its all about $ and cents right now..

Offline Waltr

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2015, 05:12:58 PM »
   Money and commitment is what it would take to increase Guzzi sales.  The factory would have to be able to build more and dealer structure would have to be there to sell them.  Guzzi is slowly working through the dealer network and will no doubt end up with fewer dealers as time moves on.  Dealers need to have selection and commitment.  A demo truck to show up at the major rally's would be nice.  I am not worried about the race bike thing. Aprillia has that covered and if your market demands a dealer for ultra performing street bike a Guzzi dealer could consider just carrying both lines.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 05:14:55 PM by Waltr »
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Online rocker59

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2015, 05:18:55 PM »
Piaggio has simply paid the bills, but done very little to reinvigorate the brand  

Well, that's not exactly right.  Guzzi was on the verge of demise with its failed hydraulic lifter Californias in 2003/2004 when Piaggio took the reins.

From that point forward it's been a steady upward trend for the motorcycle line, and for the factory in Mandello.  Piaggio dumped tens of millions of Euros into the factory in Mandello, and into new product development.

In 2005/2006, we got the California Vintage, Breva 1100, Griso 1100, Norge.  Then came the Stelvio 1200, the Griso 8v, the Norge 8v.  Not to mention the 2009 V7 Classic line that totally reinvigorated the small blocks.  Then the Stelvio NTX and the upgraded 750 engine.

Actually, Piaggio have done a lot for the brand.  The only thing they haven't done is provide a successor to the spine frame bikes.  They very unfortunately did kill the MGS-01 project, which could've been developed with the new engines.  That's really the only bad thing I can say about  them.

Had Piaggio not taken on Aprila/Guzzi in 2004, both brands may well have gone the way of Laverda and the other great Italian marques...
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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2015, 05:25:58 PM »
Didn't Aprilia go for broke when they purchased MG back in mid 2000's and that technology is in the current line up?  

Not exactly.  Aprilia took over Guzzi in 1999.  What really hurt Aprilia was what hurt other scooter makers in Italy:  Mandatory helmet laws and changing demographics put a major ding in the huge Italian scooter market.  Aprilia couldn't take it.  Piaggio adapted and was able to buy their chief competitor.   

I am not worried about the race bike thing. Aprillia has that covered and if your market demands a dealer for ultra performing street bike a Guzzi dealer could consider just carrying both lines.

I don't care about a racebike, either, but I would like a sporting Guzzi.  Aprilia's bikes do not, and have never appealed to me.  I would never buy one.  Ducati would be my second choice behind a Moto Guzzi.  Guzzi really should have a successor to the Daytona/Sport 1100/V11 Sport/MGS-01 in thier lineup.
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Offline Aaron D.

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 05:34:48 PM »
Guzzi's heritage has been sensible engineering to the extent of eccentricity, not ultimate sporting street machines.

All the V7 Sports, LeMans etc models were sport bikes improvised from the police or touring machines. The exotic leading edge stuff was all for GP racing.

The beauty of the brand has been just how well they performed given the starting point. Frankly the engineering (the REAL engineering) of the V7 big block was way ahead of the Ducati bevelheads.

Millepercento's stuff is neat and all, but that is not Guzzi. Just building on what Guzzi does.

Offline AH Fan

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 05:46:13 PM »
Something really new?  I bet against that every time with Guzzi.  I have one word; Harley.  What do they do that's so cutting edge?  New power plants per se?  Let everyone else compete at the top hp market and keep on doing what you're doing seems to work just fine.  In fact, it separates you from the others in the end.  Is Harley unique?  You bet they are and getting more so every day.  For Guzzi to get back to their racing days they'd have to completely reinvent themselves and prove to the world they are racers.  It's simply been too long since they're last race.  They are essentially an unknown company to most, but pretty unique when people find out about them.  Unique in an old fresh way of air-cooled V-twins. They won't be doing anything unpredictable anytime soon.  Still waiting for the re-fresh of the sb like they did with the bb!!!!!!!

Too much $$ for these MP bikes but cool to see what's possible with this lump.



Nailed it................ me too machines are just a total yawner..... as far as I'm concerned I hope they can continue marching to their own  for eternity.
They are one of the very few that are left out there............ all you have to do is go for demo rides of other manufacturers and your gonna have a whole new appreciation for our good old Guzzis ( Hard pressed to tell the difference between a Honda and a BMW these days , seriously don't take my word for it ).......... the only thing they could have improved on as far as feel goes on the Cali is loose that ride by wire stuff.

OK.......... now I'm monologuing..... ;D

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2015, 05:48:44 PM »

All the V7 Sports, LeMans etc models were sport bikes improvised from the police or touring machines. The exotic leading edge stuff was all for GP racing.


The V7 Sport appeared in 1971 with a purpose-built sporting frame, the "Tonti Frame", specifically to address sporting shortcomings of the Loop Frames.

New frame, suspension and upgraded engine.  The V7 Sport was not improvised from police or touring machines.

Actually, the later 850T and following standard/touring bikes built on the Tonti frame were police and touring machines improvised from a sportsbike.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 05:49:05 PM by rocker59 »
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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2015, 06:11:19 PM »
I think what also is important is the volume of bikes they put out and their manufacturing capacity.
It doesn't seem they can work on the volume/reduced cost model at their current plant.
So their target audience needs to have cash, that takes you out of the young racer boy market in general.
Although to my surprise Ducati seems to have that working.. their monster series seems to have did a lot for them.

Although I love Ducati's (well their GT1000 was a great bike and really the only one I would consider), I just can't past the perception of the horror story of their valve train and timing belts... Then I hear stories of folks who actually put the miles on them (like having a Multistrada) and when the motor needs rebuilt.. now you are in a pickle.. Pricey rebuild?  Sell it for next to nothing for the fear of the pricey rebuild for the potential purchaser...

Anyways.. I think they are actually in a pretty good spot right now.
Their target audience has money, they don't live way up in the high cost R&D market (Sport bike genre), they get to play around with a design/build motorcycle that has a small but pretty loyal following...  Seems pretty good to me.   
I personally think the brand is a jewel for the right person. 
Sounds like Harley (other than the small volume) doesn't it?

 

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2015, 06:22:09 PM »
 Many of you are more enthusiastic about  MG's than I am. But I like the mechanical presence...once the junk is stripped away  ;D Way back I read a bike comparison test in Cycle, and most likely Cook Neilson said the Guzzi V7 was like a time release drug compared to the Meth bikes of the time, Ducati etc...
 Nothing has changed since 1973 except all the other bikes have advanced far more than Guzzi...In my opinion...

Offline Kent in Upstate NY

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2015, 06:43:50 PM »
Somebody brings up this tired subject every year or so and all the responses are the same.  :beat_horse
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Offline Aaron D.

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2015, 08:09:06 PM »
Oh I know the history, I bought a V7 Sport new. Right next to the Eldorado on the showroom floor.
But it was an adaptation of the basic engine to sporting use. The transmission, bevel drive et al all were available on the Eldorado.

Lino Tonti's frames all looked sort of like the Sport's-straight tubes, basic parallelogram shape. He just did a great adaptation, just like Wittner did to get his bikes around a track more quickly.

I can't think of any pure sporting bike back then, developed that way from the start, they all seem to have come from basic existing designs except  for MV fours. Unless you count Ducati's GT750 as a development of the 500 GP bike.

Offline Lannis

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Re: "Guzzi has lost it's way"
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2015, 08:25:11 PM »
Somebody brings up this tired subject every year or so and all the responses are the same.  :beat_horse

Yeah, but people seem to really enjoy discussing it, judging by the thread responses.   So may it isn't so tired?

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