Author Topic: reverse head Guzzi  (Read 7474 times)

Offline azguzzirep

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reverse head Guzzi
« on: August 13, 2017, 04:23:01 AM »
Saw this at the big Guzzi rally yesterday.







Murphy's  Law sucks!

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 05:23:37 AM »
Witchcraft!!
I wonder what is involved in doing that?  is it as simple as swapping heads side to side and new pistons?

Offline azguzzirep

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 05:34:04 AM »
Witchcraft!!
I wonder what is involved in doing that?  is it as simple as swapping heads side to side and new pistons?

You have to make a new reverse camshaft .
Murphy's  Law sucks!

Offline Old Jock

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 05:56:34 AM »
Why?

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 05:56:34 AM »

pete roper

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 06:33:33 AM »
Because they really enjoy dealing with the aftermath when the heads fall off the exhaust valves like they did when this absurd idea was tried in the early 1970's on a couple of endurance racers.

The theory was that having the bellmouths on the carburettors pointing forward would impart some magical effect that would force more mixture into the cylinders. Needless to say it was bollocks and all that happened was the exhaust valves overheated and shed their heads due to lack of cooling.

It's just another example of idiocy being trans generational and nobody doing any research on thier unoriginal, crackpot, ideas.

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Offline Dofin

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 07:21:56 AM »
It looks really cool!  easy to throw shade, the guy just wants something different, willing to work or pay for it and accept the negatives.  Two thumbs up for the wack a doodles out there doing what makes them happy@@    :thumb:   :thumb:   :drool:
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Offline dxhall

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 08:41:43 AM »
Was there any background on the bike?  I'm curious how he made the reverse camshaft. 

Offline Lee Davis

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 10:10:42 AM »
Silly Goose! It is just like the problem with nails when building a house... fully half of the nails have the head on the wrong end, it appears. But shrewd carpenters know that the bad nails are meant for the opposite side of the house. I'll bet that if a kit were sold to reverse the heads as such, a fair number of wack-a-doodles would buy it, valves be damned. Not me though! When I reach for a nail with the head on the wrong end, I just throw it away.



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« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 10:53:10 AM by Lee Davis »
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oldbike54

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 10:27:57 AM »
 This reverse head concept has been tried on vert twin Brit bikes also . Of course it decreases HP because there is a low pressure area in front of the intake area . Like many ideas , it might look cool , but doesn't work in the real world .

 Dusty

Offline hidn45

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 10:29:03 AM »
Lee -   ;^)   !!!
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Offline dxhall

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 10:39:26 AM »
The 1960s drag racers messed with ram air for a while.  Remember the Dodge 440 Six Pac with the big scoop?  The racers abandoned the idea because dyno tests showed that the horsepower gain from ram air was only in a very narrow range.  On each side of that range there was a horsepower loss.  Pressurized air boxes (which many bikes have now) give a slight boost across a much wider range.

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 10:46:26 AM »

 I find it appropriate to interject Sheepdogs moniker at this point   "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." George S. Patton

  Thanks Sheepdog!
      Paul B :boozing:
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Offline Two Checks

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 11:00:51 AM »
The 1960s drag racers messed with ram air for a while.  Remember the Dodge 440 Six Pac with the big scoop?  The racers abandoned the idea because dyno tests showed that the horsepower gain from ram air was only in a very narrow range.  On each side of that range there was a horsepower loss.  Pressurized air boxes (which many bikes have now) give a slight boost across a much wider range.
You are thinking of the big blocks with the dual quad cross ram manifolds originally called sonoramic because he internal manifold runner lengths were designed to use intake pulses to induce a ram effect. Hence the name of the race ream...Ramchargers. They did fi d one length was better at high rpm and another at low. But this was in the early 60s with no computers.
The manifolds did find their way into production option lists.
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Offline Huzo

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 12:33:15 PM »
Why?
But Jock with all due respect to you, and I have a LOT!!! It is another manifestation of someone who just loves to do something to express his skill and creativeness. Not unlike your six spot caliper artistry, four spotters will tip you on your face so why six??? It's because you bloody well can mate, and the Bike world in general and Guzzi in particular, are the richer for creations like yours. Also you do learn a HELL OF A LOT by buggerising around and turning your visions into bike reality. Do you not ? Pete has hosed the whole thing with a dose of reality, so it's probably just a worthless bit of chicanery but good on him for getting off his bum and trying something.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:45:00 PM by Huzo »

Offline ken farr

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 12:37:26 PM »
Pete:  You just gotta stop bottling things up, and just speak your mind.   :evil:

Lee:  Brilliant.   :bow:


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Offline Huzo

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2017, 12:38:25 PM »
Witchcraft!!
I wonder what is involved in doing that?  is it as simple as swapping heads side to side and new pistons?
Would the pistons just swap sides with their respective heads, the carby side would still be facing the carby, etc...

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2017, 12:38:53 PM »
I think it might be an interesting engineering exercise for the home-built guy but more particularly if one was to integrate a turbo in the mix.



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Offline Huzo

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2017, 12:40:03 PM »
Because they really enjoy dealing with the aftermath when the heads fall off the exhaust valves like they did when this absurd idea was tried in the early 1970's on a couple of endurance racers.

The theory was that having the bellmouths on the carburettors pointing forward would impart some magical effect that would force more mixture into the cylinders. Needless to say it was bollocks and all that happened was the exhaust valves overheated and shed their heads due to lack of cooling.

It's just another example of idiocy being trans generational and nobody doing any research on thier unoriginal, crackpot, ideas.

Pete
Just what we didn't need, a dose of common sense. :embarrassed:

Offline Huzo

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2017, 12:42:02 PM »
This reverse head concept has been tried on vert twin Brit bikes also . Of course it decreases HP because there is a low pressure area in front of the intake area . Like many ideas , it might look cool , but doesn't work in the real world .

 Dusty
Low pressure you say, Bernoulli ???
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:46:53 PM by Huzo »

Offline Dukedesmo

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2017, 12:44:19 PM »
When I was a teenager I had an old 'Rizzato Califfone' 50cc 2-stroke Italian moped. It had a horizontal cylinder and a forward facing carb with a plastic cover that turned the intakes to the rear.


I figured that removing the cover would allow air to be forced into the carb at 'speed' (really?) and the bike would make hundreds of horsepower. In reality it just popped and farted and only went half as fast as with the cover on....


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Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 12:53:39 PM »
When I was a teenager I had an old 'Rizzato Califfone' 50cc 2-stroke Italian moped. It had a horizontal cylinder and a forward facing carb with a plastic cover that turned the intakes to the rear.


I figured that removing the cover would allow air to be forced into the carb at 'speed' (really?) and the bike would make hundreds of horsepower. In reality it just popped and farted and only went half as fast as with the cover on....

Classic example of an opportunity for one of my Ol' Man's favorite mantra:

"Do you understand everything you know about that?"

Or, the flip side:

"Seemed like a good idea at the time!"



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oldbike54

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2017, 01:10:04 PM »
Low pressure you say, Bernoulli ???

 Dunno , not sure how a pasta brand plays in here  :huh:

 Dusty

Offline Huzo

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2017, 01:22:52 PM »
Dunno , not sure how a pasta brand plays in here  :huh:

 Dusty
My half baked thought would have been that there would have been higher pressure due to the ram effect, but then Bernoulli's law says that the higher the air velocity, the lower the static pressure,(it's one of the reasons a wing works), so I'm clueless. Did not know about the pasta thing, now that IS interesting. Mmmmmmm, Pasta. :drool:

Offline Charles in Lake Charles

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 02:16:27 PM »
This bike was built for the tall gentleman (note taller seat on separate sub frame) by a bike shop that was part of a biker tv show.
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oldbike54

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2017, 02:21:37 PM »
My half baked thought would have been that there would have been higher pressure due to the ram effect, but then Bernoulli's law says that the higher the air velocity, the lower the static pressure,(it's one of the reasons a wing works), so I'm clueless. Did not know about the pasta thing, now that IS interesting. Mmmmmmm, Pasta. :drool:

 The effects of pressure are manifold .

 Dusty

Offline rodekyll

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2017, 02:52:36 PM »
Dunno , not sure how a pasta brand plays in here  :huh:

 Dusty

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Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 02:57:48 PM »
The effects of pressure are manifold .

 Dusty
Lookee here, let's be adult about this and not get sucked into thread-drift enabled punnery!    :thewife:

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« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 02:58:06 PM by cruzziguzzi »
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Offline Tim Henry

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 03:14:26 PM »
I've been asked why the intake air on my 8x griso is in the tail section I tell them it's there so every time I fart I get a boost in hp almost like nitrous.

oldbike54

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2017, 03:56:59 PM »
 If we effectively allow ourselves to be affected by the affectations of the effective manifold directions this thread , we may in fact become forever affected although effectively that will make no difference .

 (Did I keep that straight?)

 Dusty

Offline rodekyll

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Re: reverse head Guzzi
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2017, 04:03:39 PM »
If we effectively allow ourselves to be affected by the affectations of the effective manifold directions this thread , we may in fact become forever affected although effectively that will make no difference .

 (Did I keep that straight?)

 Dusty

I think that's your proof, right there.    :whip2:

 

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