pushing the small block too hard?

[lucydad]

All,

I push my 2012 V7R engine pretty hard:  often shifting at just below the 7000 rpm electronic cut off.  Yesterday I wondered:  dang am I pushing this engine too hard?  She is willing to rev fast, and I admit to sometimes riding the slow bike as fast as she will go.  Any thoughts?  Should I back off?

I used to push my old Honda 175 hard, and of course MT 50.  Neither engine ever had a problem.

It is an amazing engine, low end willing to just cruise at 3500 rpm also, just burbling. 

[bad Chad]

Shouldn't be any issue if your keeping the revs below red line at all.   If you were running for prolonged periods above 6k, you might want to change your fluids a bit more often, but if its just a matter of stretching her legs as she goes through the gear box, have fun!

[jas67]

Does yours shut off at 7K?  The 2012 I had didn't do it until 8K.

The torque really fell off after 7k my 2009 V7C (same motor as your 2012), same goes for my 2013 V7R.

I don't ever recall hitting the rev limiter on my V7C, but, I have on the V7R during spirited passes, so, maybe it doesn't run out of steam as soon as I thought, or the rev limiter is lower.

[canuguzzi]

If you are constantly pushing the engine to near redline it might be time for something with more oomph. Even an engine that likes to rev doesn't last as long being pushed to near redline all the time as one that isn't.

Redline does not mean everything near it constantly or nearly so is OK.

Obviously, you want to go quicker or you wouldn't have the tach sitting at 7 grand that often.

You have a very good reason to go bike shopping.

[bad Chad]

I occasionally run my v65 up to 7k, and I don't notice a torque fall off, but it might be there.

I do notice that it goes from 5k to 6plus in a fraction of a second.   It's an old school motor compared to what you guys are talking about, but once it hits 5k the revs seem to take off like a rocket!

[Perazzimx14]

Until you grenade the motor you are not pushing it too hard. 

[oldbike54]

Until you grenade the motor you are not pushing it too hard.

  Well OK then 

  Dusty

[PJPR01]

  You have a very good reason to go bike shopping.

I think you just created a new item in Greg's budget here!  :)

[Triple Jim]

lucydad, there are a couple different reasons why you might be getting near redline a lot:

1.  You like to ride that speed, with that much acceleration getting there, and it takes pushing the engine hard more often than some riders might, to satisfy you.  In that case, I'd agree that a motorcycle with a higher power to weight ratio might be a good idea at some point.

2.  You like to push everything you drive to its redline often, so it's a very bad idea to get a motorcycle with a higher power to weight ratio.

[wrbix]

You're retired, right?
You've got a limited number of riding years left, right?
You're not planning resale on this bike, right?

So, life's short, ride hard (or as hard as you'd like).

I don't get the feeling speed is your goal - it is more fun to ride a slow bike fast, etc, etc.

[JeffOlson]

I love revving to redline! That's what it's there for, isn't it? 

I have a new car with an eight-speed automatic that loves to rev to 7,000 rpm before shifting, especially if I put it in "Sport" mode. Too bad I can't really wring it out anywhere around here. In seconds, I'm at 80 mph getting onto the freeway, and then I have to slow down. Frustrating!

My Norge loved to be wrung out, too! Perhaps I was too hard on the motor, but it seemed to like it.

[LongRanger]

LD has some very capable British hp in the garage, ready to take over for the Italian hp.

[rocker59]

I say hammer the V7 and enjoy it.

That's part of the fun of a lower HP bike.  I used to really love flogging a friend's Ducati M750.

I enjoy running my V7 up through the gears, though I usually shift around 5,000 rpm.

If I shifted my Sport 1100 like I shift my V7, I'd be dead or in jail...

[lucydad]

All,

Interesting comments, thanks!  The rev limiter on my V7R kicks in somewhere just above 7000 rpm, maybe 7200.  Only hit it a couple times and the experience is uh....dead and frustrating.  When I first bought the bike I always shifted around 5000-5500 rpm.  As the past 3.5 years have gone by that urge to wring the Italian out has grown.  I take her to her limits, there is some real fun at the very high end--6500 rpm or so. Torque drops off fast.

Given that I do not want to abuse the bike.  I watch fluids carefully.  The added sump helps. She burns very little, if any oil.  I think-guess that just maybe the bike runs better in our cooler air temperatures this time of year.  72F is a big difference from 95-100F and humid.  Could be my imagination. Tires, of course stick better when heated up and hot too. Yes, classic:  fun to ride a slow bike fast. 

The 675 Triumph Triple is a huge contrast.  The engine spins up to warp speed VERY quickly.  I doubt I will ever have the chance to really explore the high end unless I take it to track days.  In third gear at 10K rpm I run out of sort of legal speeds very fast, and this is TEXAS.  Hang on tight.

The two bikes are a very enjoyable complementary pair.  With my new upcoming 3 car garage, closing on the new house either December or January-- I could add a third bike easily.  Don't tell Ms. LD that.  I might open the scope up, again seeking diversity in style, brand, engine and character.  Not sure what.

[bad Chad]

Until you grenade the motor you are not pushing it too hard.

 :1:

[steamdriven NZ]

I have a friend with what used to be a standard V50 Mk 1. I did wonder in the early days of my small block ownership how strong they were. My friend related this episode from his past.

 Years ago, with the standard engine with its wee carbs and wee valves n all, he found himself way behind schedule for the interisland ferry. The people he was riding with said "we have to nail it and hope there are no cops." I was told by said friend that he sat for extended periods with the throttle pinned to the stop, in top gear, for the hour or so the get to the ferry. Apparently he did get stopped only a few km from the ferry, cop asked what the rush was and was told about the ferry sailing. "what time?"
"In about 10 minutes" my friend replied.
"Better keep going then" said the cop. True story. He rolled into the ferry and they shut the door behind him. The bike and he carried on at the other end the further 660km to home without a problem and for many years later.

Anyway, the small block is a robust piece of kit. The redline is set by the factory, if the engine is maintained correctly and you're not abusing it then the redline will not break your smallblock.

Kev.   

[dibble]

You're obviously abusing it I suggest you buy  a big Harley and keep it below 1500rpm.

[Vasco DG]

The Herron head design means you won't achieve a lot by revving the tits off it but in all honesty how much time do you spend bouncing off the rev limiter, (Which, unsurprisingly, are always set conservatively by the factory.)?

Let's face it very few road riders spend a lot of time anywhere near the rev limiter. On an engine like a smallblock it's an excercise in futility but if it floats your boat wring it's neck till it goes 'Blurp-Blurp-Blurp' in any gear. It won't do any harm. The MEPS is really quite low and the valve train will go tits long before the major componentry.

If you want to ride a really silly bike for hitting the limiter ride a Bellagio! The 940 twin plug, short stroke 2V is the most insanely fun *Old* big block you could ever ride! You just wind it open and it just goes stupid! Right up to 'Blurp-Blurp-Blurp!' Where you grab another gear, (Five times!) and cackle insanely into your helmet.....

Pete

[charlie b]

.............You just wind it open and it just goes stupid! Right up to 'Blurp-Blurp-Blurp!' Where you grab another gear, (Five times!) and cackle insanely into your helmet.....

Pete

Pete,

I love your posts!  :)

[rtbickel]

Hey, it's Italian and was designed to be flogged.

[Arizona Wayne]

Then I guess my 750 Breva will last forever since I put a taller rear wheel on it to lower the rpms by 250 in 5th and only run 65-75 mph most the time.  Have had it up to 105 mph a couple times passing.  Not aware of any rev limiter.  Uses little oil and hardly ever have to adjust the valves w/dino oil.  Right now the clutch needs replacing.  In the twisties I like to ride at a good clip but not by revving the bike but using it's broad torque instead.   On all my rigs I prefer to not abuse my motor/drive trains, except for my MZ 660 single, which is a hooligan bike in the twisties.   

[drlapo]

BMW used to recommend running an engine at 70% of redline= don't lug it
not much sense in running my R80 past that as there isn't any more power up there

[Chuck in Indiana]

except for my MZ 660 single, which is a hooligan bike in the twisties.   

That's why I have one.. 

[Kev m]

BMW used to recommend running an engine at 70% of redline= don't lug it
not much sense in running my R80 past that as there isn't any more power up there

What's actual redline on these smallblocks.

Cause 70% of 7k is 4900 rpm, and 70% of 8k is 5600 rpm.

So by that rule of thumb we're talking low 5k....

[Arizona Wayne]

That's why I have one.. 

I usually run my 750 Breva 4,500 to 5k in constant speed in 5th. 

[sign216]

  On all my rigs I prefer to not abuse my motor/drive trains, except for my MZ 660 single, which is a hooligan bike in the twisties.   

I had an MZ 660 single.  Nice bike, but I didn't like the engine dynamics.  It needed high revs to do anything (and liked the hi revs) but also had large engine braking any time you closed the throttle.  The Guzzi twin cyl is much better.

[Cam3512]

I'll shift at 6K, but see no need to run it for any distance at 7K+.  Mine revs along nicely at 4.5-5K.

[jas67]

I'll shift at 6K, but see no need to run it for any distance at 7K+.  Mine revs along nicely at 4.5-5K.

 :1:

[SmithSwede]

My two cents:

I think max horsepower on single TB small blocks is just past 6,000 rpm.  Maybe at 6,300 rpm or so.   Thus you don't gain more power revving past that.    The small block is probably making same horsepower at 7,000 plus as it does at high 5,000 range.  So why go there?

I recall that BMW, for the airheads, used to publish max rpm figures (i.e. redline), as well as "maximum continuous rpm" figures.   The max continuous was maybe 500 to 750 rpm below absolute redline.   So to extrapolate, maybe the Guzzi small block is ok for brief periods (red line) at 7,000 someodd, but maximum continuous rpm (on Autobahn) is maybe 6,500 rpm.   

Finally, I think a lot of this boils down to what is meant by "not hurting" the engine. We all agree that running low on oil, or running without an air filter, is "hurting" the bike. It will clearly suffer in short order. 

But high revs, working the bike hard, etc?  Well, that probably doesn't "hurt" the bike if your projected lifespan is 50,000 to 75,000 miles.   But if you are shooting for 150,000 or 200,000 miles with minimal repairs, then no, I expect you don't want to be revving it that much that often.

But, I'm not a master mechanic.  I just know what I read in the papers.   

[Arizona Wayne]

I had an MZ 660 single.  Nice bike, but I didn't like the engine dynamics.  It needed high revs to do anything (and liked the hi revs) but also had large engine braking any time you closed the throttle.  The Guzzi twin cyl is much better.

Much better for what?   Mine is a 2000, which is better than the `90s versions.  Motor is the same.  I'm talking about cornering and braking.  Breva is OK but when it comes to handling, but no comparison, IMHO.  Yes, the Breva accelerates faster in a straight but that is all.  My stock MZ revs lower than a Breva but that's because it's a single.  It has oodles of torque everywhere.  I never have to wind it out to haul ass in the twisties.  It has a rev limiter so you don't blow the large piston, but it'll do the ton.  Did yours have an aftermarket pipe?