Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on February 10, 2019, 08:31:22 AM
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Granted, we all have different tastes and riding styles, period. What would a new Guzzi look like that would appeal to the masses? Maybe it's the current V7 variants, maybe it's the coming V85TT or something we haven't seen yet. What design would get a large percentage of Guzzi riders excited as well as non-Guzzi riders? One that would get lots of folks to sit up and say WOW, I LOVE THAT, I'D BUY THAT!!!???
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7848/32107347337_2ba69c5377_z.jpg)
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A lightweight street legal 500cc 2 stroke DS/Motard with tubeless spoke wheels and e-start. That also came with a case of Castor 927 bean oil and a bottle of Hoppes #9 just for extra added manly scent :thumb:
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Give the V7 10 more HP, and maybe some paint options that are shiny... really other then that, they have a pretty WOW line as it is... IMHO the best looking for many years.. the key with MG isnt the line.... its the fact that noone knows they are in the US, or how to buy one...
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Granted, we all have different tastes and riding styles, period. What would a new Guzzi look like that would appeal to the masses? Maybe it's the current V7 variants, maybe it's the coming V85TT or something we haven't seen yet. What design would get a large percentage of Guzzi riders excited as well as non-Guzzi riders?
The V7.
One that would get lots of folks to sit up and say WOW, I LOVE THAT, I'D BUY THAT!!!???
I did, four times now.
And, all of my V7's aways got (and get) lots of attention from riders and not riders alike.
A Nuovo 850 Le Mans with the V85TT motor, Ohlins rear shocks from the V7III Racer, and forks with modern internals from Race Tech, Showa, or similar would get me real week in the knees, and likely be dangerous to my financial balance sheet.
Give the V7 10 more HP, and maybe some paint options that are shiny... really other then that, they have a pretty WOW line as it is... IMHO the best looking for many years.. the key with MG isnt the line.... its the fact that noone knows they are in the US, or how to buy one...
Definitely some shiny paint options (aside from the bland grey of the Milano) and cast wheels on the same bike.
There really is no reason they can't at least offer the cast wheels on the Special as a special-order option.
As others have already said though, I think Guzzi's biggest problem is the lack of dealers. And this comes from how Piaggio treats their dealers.
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7848/32107347337_2ba69c5377_z.jpg)
"The ULTIMATE little TIDDLER!!" I want one... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
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Something like a Griso where they cut about 4" off the wheel base and loose 100#
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QUOTE: As others have already said though, I think Guzzi's biggest problem is the lack of dealers. And this comes from how Piaggio treats their dealers.
Agree with this 100% - - Current line of Guzzi's are fine...THIS is the bigger issue!! :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:
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QUOTE: As others have already said though, I think Guzzi's biggest problem is the lack of dealers. And this comes from how Piaggio treats their dealers.
Agree with this 100% - - Current line of Guzzi's are fine...THIS is the bigger issue!! :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:
I'm the opposite they make nothing currently I would consider buying, IMO forget the air cooled shaft drive Vtwin its had its day, clean sheet design V8 hyabusa style bike, super light weight horizontal single with all the performance tweaks that modern singles have, possibly forced induction a modern V twin let aprilia have the fours and let Guzzi have the twin street bikes. The current lineup is either completely lackluster in the riding experience (V7) massively overweight and handles like a barge (cali series) or both (V9). I am curious to see some road reviews of the V85 motor but even if they hit the targets they might even match a 25year old 1100 sport and when you already own one of those and they are hilariously pedestrian compared to the modern stuff its not exactly inspiring to get my money out.
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What a good concept for a thread.
It'll be interesting to see what the masses on this forum will come up with. I cannot conceive of anything myself but agree that there needs to be a bit of "sexiness" that the modern Guzzi does not possess in enough quantity to attract mass appeal.
Maybe that IS the appeal, dunno.
But there needs to be a bit of Ducati Testastrettaitidnis designed in, or some MVededness...!
As a relative newcomer I can say I think the modern Guzzi looks lovely, but so do all the milfs over 45 at the pub. It's only because I'm old and I've got one more new bike purchase in me.
Sad to say, but I reckon the transverse air cooled V twin layout is so quintessentially Guzzi, that while that arrangement remains, I think the subliminal message to the young folk will scream..."OLD FASHIONED" and only track focussed success would turn the tide of opinion.
No one under 40 has ever seen a Guzzi do anything but embarrass itself in top level competition if at all and most of the hipsters think Dr John is an old musician, to try to convince them otherwise is like pulling teeth and that is the root of the problem... :rolleyes:
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Sad to say, but I reckon the transverse air cooled V twin layout is so quintessentially Guzzi, that while that arrangement remains, I think the subliminal message to the young folk will scream..."OLD FASHIONED" and only track focussed success would turn the tide of opinion.
No one under 40 has ever seen a Guzzi do anything but embarrass itself in top level competition if at all and most of the hipsters think Dr John is an old musician, to try to convince them otherwise is like pulling teeth and that is the root of the problem... :rolleyes:
The thing is that the twins are still selling... V twins, and the new crop of parallel twins are still selling well. Also the new crop of riders really seem to like the vintage Cafe style, and really the V7 fits right in there. I think that if guzzi lost the transverse Vtwin it would be gone.. that is really the last thing that makes it stand out from the others. A small european brand will never be able to match all that the big ones offer.. you gotta run with what you got. They cant be the next R1.. or the GSXR... but they can be one of the better vintage style bikes... the cafe bikes, and really... they could do well in the touring and cruse/touring market.. you read the reviews and they love them.... as long as you dont need a dealer... some dealers, some visible adds either print, or online... some buzz, get the brand out on the streets... even with the MG small batches of bikes. Nothing raises the want of a brand then being exclusive... But again.. that's a pipe dream that the company doesn't care to invest in... And you know... there is 50 years of bikes out there on the road, and a lot of people like the crew here that know a lot about them.. Im 54 so doubt the company going under will effect my enjoyment..
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The V7. Especially the Milano with additional colours to the beautiful grey.
The current lineup is either completely lackluster in the riding experience (V7).....
I tend to disagree.
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As far as I'm concerned, that new 850 dual sport is the right "format" for me and my area/riding style. But the Tiger's paid for <shrug>
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Thing is also.
Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 20 k's or more, you WILL lose your licence for a nasty period and 30 k's over you WILL have your bike impounded for some time and it costs a lot to get it back.
Point is.
Most clear thinking individuals know that it is now pointless to own a performance sportsbike, although many still do.
If you rock up to a standard bike gathering these days, he who rocks up on a Panigale new MV looks like a try hard attention seeker, which he always was, but it was not as obvious.
I don't know whether outright performance is the big driver that it used to be..
Again, if there were 50 road legal MGS 01's and 50 Ducati Panigale's on a dealers floor, I'd wager that the stock of each would diminish a lot more evenly than might be once thought.
I would certainly prefer the Guzzi to the Duke.
BTW..
I'm not suggesting it's a conceivable reality, just an indication that performance is less of a consideration here than it was even 10 years ago.
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I worked on a few of these and they are nice--
https://www.alliancepowersports.com/models/Discontinued/symba.html
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The thing is that the twins are still selling... V twins, and the new crop of parallel twins are still selling well. Also the new crop of riders really seem to like the vintage Cafe style, and really the V7 fits right in there. I think that if guzzi lost the transverse Vtwin it would be gone.. that is really the last thing that makes it stand out from the others. A small european brand will never be able to match all that the big ones offer.. you gotta run with what you got.
I'm not saying don't make them anymore I'm saying simply punching out more of the same doesn't cut it emissions and noise regulations are working against it so from the get go the engine design is behind everything else. The original question was wow factor and mass appeal currently they don't have it with a current customer with two of their products in the shed (i.e. me) and a very good dealer locally, Guzzi are selling in finger and toes numbers. Having said that have you ridden any of the current parallel twins or something like the Scrambler and compared them to Guzzi's lineup I suggest you do. A small European brand will never beat the big Japanese four that's why Ducati Aprilia have never won a world championship in anything... oh wait hang on. With Piaggio as the corporate master Guzzi aren't exactly a small company anymore.
More of the same will get you more of the same and with Piaggio's and Aprilia's technical expertise there is no excuse for it, if you want to go back Guzzi's foundation that was forged on the race track and from bold engineering, not pandering to a tradition.
The V7 is simply a nice round town bike, so is a Vespa.
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Let Guzzi be Guzzi , they can't compete with the bigger companies in the high performance market . Remember , Aprilia probably sells fewer bikes than Guzzi does , and they have some serious street cred in that market . Fix the way the company interacts with its dealers , improve quality control at the origin point , and continue developing some fairly simple designs .
Dusty
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Thing is also.
Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 20 k's or more, you WILL lose your licence for a nasty period and 30 k's over you WILL have your bike impounded for some time and it costs a lot to get it back.
Point is.
Again, if there were 50 road legal MGS 01's and 50 Ducati Panigale's on a dealers floor, I'd wager that the stock of each would diminish a lot more evenly than might be once thought.
I would certainly prefer the Guzzi to the Duke.
BTW..
I'm not suggesting it's a conceivable reality, just an indication that performance is less of a consideration here than it was even 10 years ago.
The MGS-01 design is close to 15 years old it is slightly faster than a 600 supersport the Panigale's put out another 70hp, thats right almost a cali 1400 on top of the MGS performance. There are these things called track days that are quiet popular, Basically I don't go on group rides anymore with the 1100 sport even if we are vaguely doing to speed limit it accelerates so slowly what is a quick squirt for a modern bike up to the limit becomes sitting on well over the limit for the next 5kms to get people back in sight. Performance is less of a consideration not really, but it would be nice if a few performance bike brands did things like fit fuel tanks bigger than 15 litres. Guzzi are so woefully behind everything, I have had a few friends that are not fast riders buy Ducati scrambler over the V7 because simply the Guzzi didn't have enough go for them nothing breeds success like excess.
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I guess another way to think about this, what other bikes have mass appeal and a WOW factor?
The Ducati Scrambler line has done well. Why?
- they were WAY cheaper than other Ducatis. With their sport bikes $15k-$25K, you could get a scrambler around $8K. "I got a Ducati!"
- "I got a Ducati" is a cool thing to say in the office. Most non moto people know what a Ducati is. "I got a Moto Guzzi" would probably get you a "what is a Moto Guzzi" response.
- The bikes looked pretty approachable and non scary. Basic looking motorcycle. Not all wrapped in plastic.
- Insurance rates weren't sport bike high.
- Ducati timed that perfectly with the hipster phase.
- Bikes sold to hipsters, hipster want-a-be's, new riders, new ish riders, experienced riders that thought the bike looked neat and simple.
- Enough dealers around in places where people have $8k-$10K to spend on a bike.
None of this means a Ducati Scrambler is a great bike.
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The MGS-01 design is close to 15 years old it is slightly faster than a 600 supersport the Panigale's put out another 70hp, thats right almost a cali 1400 on top of the MGS performance. There are these things called track days that are quiet popular, Basically I don't go on group rides anymore with the 1100 sport even if we are vaguely doing to speed limit it accelerates so slowly what is a quick squirt for a modern bike up to the limit becomes sitting on well over the limit for the next 5kms to get people back in sight. Performance is less of a consideration not really, but it would be nice if a few performance bike brands did things like fit fuel tanks bigger than 15 litres. Guzzi are so woefully behind everything, I have had a few friends that are not fast riders buy Ducati scrambler over the V7 because simply the Guzzi didn't have enough go for them nothing breeds success like excess.
So Muzz.
If you could ride out on a Panigale or a street legal MGS, which one would it be ?
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Usedtobefast has enumbered a lot of absolutely valid points. And reading them another thought came to me: What bike has a "WOW" - factor today? Like the big Guzzis at their time, the Honda CB 750, yes, the Norton Commando? Well, look what they sell today. Here in Germany a quarter of all bikes are BMW Boxer GS! That is not a bad bike, of course not, but is it better than a Super Duke, a Multistrada, and the more? "WOW" - like? No, I think not. It is a Status Symbol. It is "in". Old men who otherwise drive Audi 6 have a GS and ride them when the wheather is right on the road. Looking as if they want to go to war. And without exception an ugly yellow vest tugged over an extremely expensive non-leather combi from BMW.
Think of it: a lot of companies now try to make bikes that "touch" their riders emotionally. Bikes that remind on the times of CB 750 et al. Honda, Kawasaki, Enfield, Ducati (successful) with the Scrambler. And then there are at least two brands that make good rideable, docile, beautiful and reasonably priced bikes exactly of this sort for years: Harley the Sportster, Moto Guzzi the V7. Should Guzzi abandon this chance and try to compete in fields that are occupied by very good producers with bikes of really all thinkable sorts, including Aprilia? Or should they proceed in carefully carrying on in what they can?
Of course, the V85 opens new opportunities. But I think other than the 1400 series this is a prudent way to do.
And, yes, when I park my white V7 Stone in our town, I normally get approached by passers-by.
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7848/32107347337_2ba69c5377_z.jpg)
Interesting. I just picked-up a '68 CT90!
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Interesting. I just picked-up a '68 CT90!
All by yourself ?
Dusty
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I used to think a new bike might be all it would take, one that would catch fire. I doubting that now. I do think the v85 has the best chance in years of being a "big" hit by Guzzi standards, but I don't think any one bike can change the big picture, not even one by the big 5.
I agree that a cultural event of some kind may need to happen to really fire up motorcycle sales. There is simply so much more to compete with motorcycles today, that didn't exist in the last century. Bikes just don't stand out like they once did from the crowd. That and what may be a lack of imagination on the part of the mfgs too.
I haven't seen numbers, but I suspect the advent of 4 wheel quads has decimated the demand for off road/enduro bikes. I just don't see many young folks on dirt bikes, I do see a lot more on quads. If they don't get started young, the chance of getting into bikes when older has to be significantly lower.
It seems the industry is headed for a new normal of being half of what it once was. Times change. But I hope I'm wrong.
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I'm w/P'mex14, - mostly.
"A lightweight street legal 500cc 2 stroke DS/Motard with tubeless spoke wheels and e-start. That also came with a case of Castor 927 bean oil and a bottle of Hoppes #9 just for extra added manly scent :thumb: "
I've got a near case of Castor, but doubt that it plays well with fuel, oil and bearing lube injection systems in current best developed 2 strokes. I also like the idea of a back to the roots *500cc horizontal single,w/chain drive!!
The yet to be available Aprilia RS660 could easily cause me to jump ship. It's got everything I want suspension, handling, brakes, power, a real fairing. The first 3
I added to my V7III Racer. BTW: the RS 660 weighs 100# less than a V7 OTD $?
Another alternate, for years on my mind, is: Body kits from Ipothysis, Gezzi & Brion, the MGS01 designers. (I cannot recall their names).
MG's modern, standard/sport/adventure are already here in the form of the V85. Separating levels of front and rear suspension, wheels, brakes and tires will accommodate different apps. The body kits would manage the aesthetics.
For beginners, commuters, errand runners/messengers & certain sport bikers a 500cc 4 stroke, horizontal single would bring a smile. A low center of gravity and centralized mass, for better balance front to back. Chain/belt drive - less weight. Much of the required suspension, braking & power transfer equipment is already on the shelves of Aprilia. There are many liquid cooled engines to choose from. Rotax ?
Risking a hanging: The yclept small block needs to vanish. It has a limited future at best. We don't yet know enough about the V85/9 engines, but for all the fuss over big and small the separation betwixt the two is rather small. It's 3? very different engines, all of low volume production, to track and support. Very costly from a timing, production and marketing issue. - A serious economic burden for MG. Perhaps it's the Euro tax codes? And what of the 1400cc engine? Liquid cooling, other than oil, is a significant hurdle for all engines. R3~
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All by yourself ?
Dusty
Mostly. :wink:
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Bruno Ghezzi designed the MGS-01 and later went to work for Piaggio. They alienated him, and that was the end of that.
Piaggio bought Aprilia (and with it Guzzi) to eliminate the competition in the scooter market and provide demand for Piaggio produced engines. Rotax departed the scene and won't be supplying engines for Piaggio products of any brand again.
The small block engine is now perceived as Guzzis future, cheaper to make and lighter. Whether that vision is true depends on whether the V85 actually makes something like the claimed power. If it works they become a single engine brand.
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That's change it up for we that have long inseam!
How about a:
45 degree V air cooled (for and aft) twin 1 ltr. 2valve. 85 hp to the wheel
Rear set pegs..
Flat track bars
just a tack and speedo with volt meter and oil pressure.
Kick ass lights
17" wheels for and aft.
Dual discs up front (aluminum ceramic)
5 gal tank
chain drive
50 deg lean angle possible
Ohlin suspension
semi dual seat w/bag brackets
450# wet.
Under $12,500
I'll take two!
Hasn't that already kinda been done?
(https://cdn.silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Harley-Davidson-XR750-1.jpg)
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That's change it up for we that have long inseam!
How about a:
45 degree V air cooled (fore and aft) twin 1 ltr. 2valve. 85 hp to the wheel
Rear set pegs..
Flat track bars
just a tack and speedo with volt meter and oil pressure.
Kick ass lights
17" wheels for and aft.
Dual discs up front (aluminum ceramic)
5 gal tank
chain drive
50 deg lean angle possible
Ohlin suspension
semi dual seat w/bag brackets
450# wet.
Under $12,500
I'll take two!
what I like and might come closest is the Hyperstrada..
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So Muzz.
If you could ride out on a Panigale or a street legal MGS, which one would it be ?
Hard decision I haven't ridden the Panigale so its hard to compare and do you mean the V twin or the V four? I have no doubt the Duc motor would spool up faster then advantages of slipper clutches etc are hard to deny. The MGS is more of a 11 degree tettastrda motor al la diavel/multistrada.
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I'm suprised people think the V7 is an "around town" bike. I must be well hard to have ridden mine (ok it is a B750) 53,000 miles with trips as far as the Pyrenees and back from Roscoff, Scotland and back from Plymouth, etc etc...
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Even down on power, I’d still take the MGS20 or whatever it might be called, compared to the Ducati. If they could make one with 125-140hp it would be acceptable. I’m pretty sure it won’t happen, but it would bring a different crowd into the showrooms.
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I think the right track for Guzzi is showing up here. Stay with the current engine configuration, tweaking it where possible. Accept the HP limits and then work within that.
Guzzi was developed and lives in the world of twisties. Guzzi needs to go with that. Put their emphasis on hanldling and dependability (which is there by design if they can just get build QC to a higher and CONSISTENT level) and develop a REAL dealership network with REAL and PROPER support.
GliderJohn
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Piaggio has spent the last decade trying to market Guzzi as the Italian alternative to HD, but on a far smaller scale. Did it work? Not so much.
This has to be at the very least the third incarnation of this thread, probably more since I started posting. It’s remarkable how little has changed regarding the perceived problems and solutions.
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^^^Well Chad , in 3 years Moto Guzzi will been going out of business for 100 years .
Dusty
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I'm suprised people think the V7 is an "around town" bike. I must be well hard to have ridden mine (ok it is a B750) 53,000 miles with trips as far as the Pyrenees and back from Roscoff, Scotland and back from Plymouth, etc etc...
People ride CT110's across continents doesn't make them the best tourer.
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(https://i.ibb.co/7pSyXbK/Screenshot-20190211-121954-2.png) (https://ibb.co/7pSyXbK)
Don't know if this pic has been posted before but I'd love to see it made. It's just a concept I found on the net that someone knocked up. I think it looks the duck's nuts. Le Mans inspired with a modern twist.
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If someone would make a full touring fairing to complement the lines of the Griso, I'd be all over that...
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"What would a new Guzzi look like that would appeal to the masses?"
It would look like a Moto Guzzi that had a realistic dealer network.
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Who can Guzzi afford to hire that they would listen to?
Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.
I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle.
More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.
When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.
Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!
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Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.
I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle.
More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.
When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.
Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!
they should hire Erik Buell
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Really? How many times does his name need to be attached to failure to make it complete?
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Don't know about mass appeal, but certainly street cred - I think because the engine is so easy to see. Pictures from the 1 Moto Show in Portland:
(https://i.ibb.co/c15JPQN/IMG-5930.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c15JPQN) (https://i.ibb.co/cFjT01g/IMG-5934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cFjT01g) (https://i.ibb.co/9q37SNj/IMG-5937.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9q37SNj) (https://i.ibb.co/WndbWzH/IMG-5940.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WndbWzH) (https://i.ibb.co/cCf8RCp/IMG-5976.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cCf8RCp)
Guzzis at their core have a visible, good-looking drive train, are durable, handle decent, stop well, and are fun to ride making them an ideal canvas for custom bike builders who have little to correct. Guzzis are ridden by a dedicated following that are perceived as experienced enthusiasts. These attributes give Guzzis street cred - a great starting point for mass appeal. This may be why the V7 is so successful (relatively) - it is a standard that is not trying to do anything but be a good basic bike (i.e., good-looking drive train, durable, handle decent, stop well, and fun to ride) but it carries with it all the history, credibility and custom bike potential. This must be why Piaggio publicizes modified bikes and supports shows where they appear.
If Guzzi went away from the cross frame V-twin it would be like BMW giving up the boxer and betting everything on the sloper 4 (and 6!) - why not buy a UJM? The boxer is still the core personality of BMW - thus the R9T. (the flying bricks were the best alternative - very BMW and certainly classics) Guzzi could pull off a different engine style (flat single, 120 degree inline twin, sloper triple?) but the V-twin would have to remain (at least for a while) to represent history and core discipline of the brand.
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Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.
Pete
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I think the right track for Guzzi is showing up here. Stay with the current engine configuration, tweaking it where possible. Accept the HP limits and then work within that.
Guzzi was developed and lives in the world of twisties. Guzzi needs to go with that. Put their emphasis on hanldling and dependability (which is there by design if they can just get build QC to a higher and CONSISTENT level) and develop a REAL dealership network with REAL and PROPER support.
GliderJohn
We do have PROPER support here in Oz..
But there's a gap between the P and the R.. :thumb:
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Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.
Pete
Competitive in the market or competitive on the track? The first it is ( I have preferred it about the Sportster Roadster 883 because for me it is the more fitting bike). Competitiveness in the market ist the thing that counts. For the competitiveness on the track Piaggio has already a brand (cited for the umpteenth time): Aprilia. And the miserable smallblock platform has already achieved an important thing: it has saved the brand. Because obviously riders like me consciously chose this platform - and like it. And so, yes, it is a viable business strategy. You don´t like it? Fine. But not important for the success of the brand.
Equally it is not important for BMW that I don´t like the GS and its rider clientele. They are very successful and so it is right what they do.
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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSnVtE6ZH9kiYsSxy_0u25epViqY0mF3acbUB3QaEJj1CEnHPjx
Should have followed these guys a decade ago..
As Huzo said, here in Australia super high performance bikes are a complete waste of time, (I was keen on the new H2 se sx Kawasaki but its performance was one of the reasons I dismissed it, it would have ended up impounded). At the moment my perfect garage would have a V85TT for adventure and a premium roadster version as the nice around town, keep polished machine..
Guzzi just need to get the bikes out there more, my Cali 1400 always gets attention and a lot of people know of Guzzi but have no idea of what they currently sell.
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Was the old loop frame on display inside the 1-Moto Show or parked outside by a rider attending the event?
(https://i.ibb.co/Z8pP3r2/IMG-0781.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z8pP3r2)
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I think it can be said this way: There will not be a "WOW" - bike for all riders anymore. The "WOW" factor is strictly individual today. And that is a good thing.
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Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.
I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle.
More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.
When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.
Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!
So your saying with the help of the man who created these abominations Guzzi would prosper?
(https://i.ibb.co/RHbP8WR/AN1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHbP8WR)
(https://i.ibb.co/Rv7z9Xj/AN2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rv7z9Xj)
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MGS-01 or Panigali ? MGS-01 any day of the week! It’s still the koolest looking bike in the world...! I’m only 55 and have my eyes set on getting a sport bike with lots of character. The MGS-01 is the one I want. But, I guess I’ll have to settle for a Daytona. If I can ever find one!
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MGS-01 or Panigali ? MGS-01 any day of the week! It’s still the koolest looking bike in the world...! I’m only 55 and have my eyes set on getting a sport bike with lots of character. The MGS-01 is the one I want. But, I guess I’ll have to settle for a Daytona. If I can ever find one!
See just to show that cutting edge isn't always the best... My sport bike of choice would be a early 90's 900SS.. So classic, a little crude, and raw, and strikingly beautiful. Seamless has no appeal to me.
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Was it Tamburini that waved the wand over the MGS ?
It looks reminiscent of the BMW R 1100 S, Ducati 916 and the F4 MV's. He is the master stylist IMO.
The Panigale is the beautiful woman with manners...
The MGS is the slightly dirty half dressed one with tossed hair..
(I couldn't give a bugger how quickly she can run around the block..!)
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Give the V7 10 more HP, and maybe some paint options that are shiny... really other then that, they have a pretty WOW line as it is... IMHO the best looking for many years.. the key with MG isnt the line.... its the fact that noone knows they are in the US, or how to buy one...
...and the service/supply chain sucks.
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And here I thought the Ness family's design cred had dried up along with the Tuttles. You think there is still interest among young/new customers for choppers? :grin: I'm not sure Guzzi survival would be worth it at that price.... :embarrassed: :afro:
You... need to get out more. There is a HUGE underground chopper/custom scene for young riders... I can attest to it, firsthand. Come on by, I'l lbring you to a couple of ride-in/rallies.
Now, that said... Ness/ The Tootles and the like? Not even close to having a finger on the pulse of the current chopper/custom scene.
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Was it Tamburini that waved the wand over the MGS ?
It looks reminiscent of the BMW R 1100 S, Ducati 916 and the F4 MV's. He is the master stylist IMO.
Ghezzi and Brian about the only thing they shared was they were Italian. It is a lot wider than the MV and the 916 in both body work and motor a lot of the side shots that you see don't convey this, TBH other than having a pointy front end and under seat exhaust that's about where it starts and stops IMO. The BMW 1100s doesn't compare to any of those three bikes in anyway IMO its far more rounded early 90's aesthetic more 900ss than 916. Although this illustrates the point of a top line sports bike 15 years latter people are talking about a bike that is totally impractical, not even road registered (in most places anyway) and the factory over a period of five years barely made 130 examples.
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Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.
Pete
For those who require a translation "Get offa my lawn".
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Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.
I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle.
More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.
When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.
Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!
This is so full of wrong, I don't know where to start...
I guess you're not aware that Piaggio has Miguel Galluzzi and a California-based design studio for Guzzi.
Or, that Piaggio has invested tens of millions of Euros into Guzzi over the past 15 years, and that Guzzi is making money at their current 10,000+ units per year production.
The last thing Guzzi needs is American chopper shops designing motorcycles for them...
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You... need to get out more. There is a HUGE underground chopper/custom scene for young riders... I can attest to it, firsthand. Come on by, I'l lbring you to a couple of ride-in/rallies.
Now, that said... Ness/ The Tootles and the like? Not even close to having a finger on the pulse of the current chopper/custom scene.
If you want to see choppers in my area look no further than CL under motorcycles for sale.
Look at the TOTD slayer with only 850 pain free miles on it and for only $22,000 it can be yours
(https://i.ibb.co/kDWSZ2Y/00-I0-I-8-Hnlya-Z3x-QV-50x50c.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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I was recently on the ModernVespa forum and there was a discussion about desirable motorcycles. The V7, Enfields, Ducati Scramblers, and Hinckley Bonnevilles all came up multiple times. If the scooter scene is an entry point for motorcycling, affordable standards with smallish engines (preferably European) seem to be popular. Perhaps motorcycling needs to be rebuilt in the way that the Japanese did it in the sixties...start with an affordable and practical platform, style it to resemble a revered classic, add in a few modern electronic conveniences (not necessarily performance aids) and a new market cycle will begin. I actually believe that Guzzi knows this and is sending out as many ideas as they can create with the Small Block format to get feedback on emerging trends. I expect things like locking phone charging slots and flashy TFT dashes and the like will end up being what separates the contenders from the "also-rans." Guzzi is in a pretty good place to compete, as most of their engineering and tooling are paid for. A young popular electronics innovator may be all they need to capture a new generation of riders.
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If you want to see choppers in my area look no further than CL under motorcycles for sale.
Look at the TOTD slayer with only 850 pain free miles on it and for only $22,000 it can be yours
(https://i.ibb.co/kDWSZ2Y/00-I0-I-8-Hnlya-Z3x-QV-50x50c.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
You and I have a different definitions of choppers, it appears. Get off of CL and spend some time hanging out with young people cutting and welding and customizing in garages, making that shitty old bike into something unique, personal and really cool. I live in one of the least populous places in my country, and, even here, the garage builder and shadetree mechanic scene is going strong.
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Really? How many times does his name need to be attached to failure to make it complete?
EB didn't fail HD did. The XB platform is superior to any Guzzi. Fuel in frame, belt drive, perimeter brake, 103HP
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8E8Pv-NWhd8
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Put the new 850 into a 1973 eldorado
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EB didn't fail HD did. The XB platform is superior to any Guzzi. Fuel in frame, belt drive, perimeter brake, 103HP
I have always like Erik Buell, and I agree that HD mis-managed Buell and bailed on them.
However, the three items you list don't make Buell superior to any particular motorcycle. Fuel in Frame is interesting and a nice innovation. Belt drive is OK but I wouldn't say superior to shaft or chain. The perimeter brakes were a 1990s gimmick/fad that didn't excel in the real world. Though his wheel/brake assembly was light, the Rotational Inertia was bad. Smaller diameter brake rotors help a bike steer better.
His innovations were things like the short wheelbase and chassis geometry that no one else was using. Fuel in frame. Under frame exhaust. The belt drive's tensioner. Etc.
I have followed Erik's exploits since the early 1980s. The FXR chassis was nice. Buying the surplus XR1000 engines and using them in a sportsbike was cool (RR1000). If Erik has one fault, it's hanging onto ideas which don't work. He doesn't seem to let go of things he likes, despite other proven solutions that are better. Perimeter brakes being the most glaring example.
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7848/32107347337_2ba69c5377_z.jpg)
This one but with a 350 cc Falcone engine :laugh: , what this Honda shares with the Falcone is the single flat cilinder, Honda is only 125cc in a small feeling bike.
I love these Hondas, got the 110cc predecessor.
Guzzi is missing a good motor in the 1100 cc range. The big blocks are too big a bikes and the smallblocks just dont have the freight frain feel of old bikes like the LM3....
Cause that is what I miss, the freight train feel in a bike the size of the V9 bobber.
From my Honda nc750cD i cam say a dct automatic would also be nice.
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Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.
Pete
Maybe Piaggio has decided that the big block platform is too heavy to be anything but a cruiser so instead they will incrementally increase the performance of the small block - 6 spd box, head redesign, expandable engine, 2 u-joint driveshaft. Maybe a modern frame/rear suspension is next?
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Was the old loop frame on display inside the 1-Moto Show or parked outside by a rider attending the event?
(https://i.ibb.co/Z8pP3r2/IMG-0781.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z8pP3r2)
It was tucked in a back corner under a leaky roof :rolleyes: Carl's other bike was the 200 mph twin engine Ducati with the Osborn Engineering Company steering - https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=99728.0
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I'm suprised people think the V7 is an "around town" bike. I must be well hard to have ridden mine (ok it is a B750) 53,000 miles with trips as far as the Pyrenees and back from Roscoff, Scotland and back from Plymouth, etc etc...
I agree Scotty. I find my B750 tours just as well as it does around town. Comfortable even with a torn hammie, and it does the "speed limit" no trouble at all.
I still get people coming up and saying what a beautiful looking bike it is, and then when told I have owned it for 14 years be most surprised.
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Maybe Piaggio has decided that the big block platform is too heavy to be anything but a cruiser so instead they will incrementally increase the performance of the small block - 6 spd box, head redesign, expandable engine, 2 u-joint driveshaft. Maybe a modern frame/rear suspension is next?
If they let go of the pointless rubber mounting and got rid of the stupidity in the injection at idle it would be a lot lighter, 2 joint shaft drive just like they had in 1992?
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This is just an outsider's perspective.
First on Buell. Not many motorcyclists take him seriously. Failures at HD, at his own company (twice), and the perception that he "falls up" is not a good look. If any of his innovations were any good at all, you'd see them on production and (more importantly) race bikes.
I've always seen MG as the Italian cruiser brand. Probably because I say more Nevadas on the road than anything else when I was younger.
I think the V9 range is a bit of a miss because of the styling. The Bobber's tank is too angular and the Roamer's lines don't look right.
I would fire those guys in California right away just for ruining those designs. Because...
If they made the V9 look anything like this
(https://i.ibb.co/T0M7DLY/recast-moto-guzzi-nevada.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T0M7DLY)
they could have at least made a dent in the Millennial Generation. The bike looks authentic and capable like a Scrambler or one of those new Huskys.
The V7s are great. They look great, sound great, and at current discounts, are affordable. I think they just need better marketing.
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Harley engined Buells were becoming quite popular in the Alps in the last 3 or 4 years before HD stopped selling them, and still get much more resale value in (say) Germany than in the US. The reason is that they’re simple to own and maintain, and they work very well for mountain road and urban street use - they are not race bikes. Then right at that point, with Buell gaining ground with a function driven overseas market for arguably the first time in HD history, in the Alps for Gods sake, management snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and settled into their current downhill slump. HD’s lack of savvy outside of their introspective world is remarkable - they can’t even recognize when they are succeeding.
Buell were the last new bikes that got my attention in any serious way. The V85TT appeals a bit, but mainly because it promises to be simple, have some character and be easy to maintain, like a Buell but minus the same high level of mountain road performance. On the other hand a small block with a bit more power may be very pleasant.
Fairly obviously Piaggio is trying to work Guzzi into one engine, the small block. The 1400 cruiser engine and the bike it propels appear to be a dead end in terms of the total volume of future sales, and copying BMW with the CARC bikes didn’t make money.
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Im guessing that the 1400 is not a dead end. I suspect it will be put in some more interesting configurations than we have now.
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Im guessing that the 1400 is not a dead end. I suspect it will be put in some more interesting configurations than we have now.
I hope you're right. But there's a long way to go on these bikes to make them palatable for the 'masses' and to make them look at and say "WOW".
As has been posted above, the majority of the California (USA) based 'design' team should not be allowed to design for the Moto Guzzi brand any longer. My exception is I do like the basic design flow of the Eldorado 1400. But clearly I'm in the minority. To sell these 3 model year old bikes the prices seemingly have to be cut to used bike price levels.
If you don't want world known builders like I mentioned earlier, ok, no problem. Park the bikes (1400 and the V7) in a senior design class at the Pasadena Design Center in Pasadena, CA. But only give the students the frame, engine/trans/drive shaft, and wheels. No wires, no body parts, no seat, no bars, no fenders etc. Nothing but a rolling chassis. Let the students design what they see as a finished package.
Better yet, present the students with just the engine/trans/driveshaft with a rear drive on a wooden crate. I'm guessing they'd come up with some awesome original and unique frame, suspension and body work designs. And yes, I'm sure many would result in a wow factor. Most would likely look like a complete motorcycle instead of a collection of loosely based parts.
Most of the bikes the garage crowd 'builds' for events like the Dirtbag Challenge have a lot of wow factor. New bikes in a Moto Guzzi showroom, not so much. Of course just finding a Moto Guzzi showroom is also a huge challenge for way too many.
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Let Guzzi be Guzzi , they can't compete with the bigger companies in the high performance market . Remember , Aprilia probably sells fewer bikes than Guzzi does , and they have some serious street cred in that market . Fix the way the company interacts with its dealers , improve quality control at the origin point , and continue developing some fairly simple designs .
Dusty
This right here. They've been in business almost 100 years for a reason. Not everyone wants to march to the beat of everyone else's drum. However, that V85TT is quite appealing and I honestly think they'll sell more of them than any model they've had since the V11EV. Heck, if my X21 was paid off, I'd jump all over the TT.
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On the topic of the 1400... I think, in North America at least, the average rider of large displacement cruisers is also a proponent of customization. Bars, bags, tanks, seats, exhaust being the main ones. Customizing a H-D is the easiest thing in the world. If you can dream of it... someone is making it. All of a sudden, that softtail looks nothing like it did when you bought it, and you're now riding the bike and portraying the image you always wished to.
THAT is the single largest selling point of the large displacement cruiser in North America.
If you want a bagger/ tourer? There are a couple of bikes at the top of that heap already, a couple of which ALSO allow for massive customization, and a couple others that are simply the king of their class.
Now, just from my own travel experience... large displacement bikes, are, by and large, a North American cultural phenomenon. Bigger, stronger, louder... it's all part of the societal fabric. Sure, I see a few big ol' Harleys and the like when abroad, but the numbers PALE in comparison to the smaller displacement bikes.
Add in the abysmal dealer/service/supply network, and big Guzzis are never gonna be more than a small niche bike.
We can trot out the "goin' outta business since..." trope all day long, but it's still a business. If the production of a product makes no sense, then that product goes away. Time will tell.
As for modern "WOW factor"?
I think, personally, that in today's market a "WOW factor bike" would require:
1) a variety of style designs around the same bones. Standard, "café", "scrambler", "cruiser"... but mean it. Not just styling cues.
2) fantastic emissions and fuel economy... it matters. Especially to a new generation.
3) impeccable build quality before sale, and impeccable support after sale. People want to ride... not wrench or wait for parts. "quirk" only has value to Blackthumbs.
4) LED lighting all around.
5) mid-sized... 500 to 800cc tops.
6) A low maintenance schedule, with easily available maintenance supplies.
7) cast wheels.
8) good aftermarket support.
9) a solid "image" attached to brand, through marketing.
10) Honda build quality, H-D mystique, R.E. pricing.
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10) Honda build quality, H-D mystique, R.E. pricing.
Sounds kinda like a unicorn to me.
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I think, personally, that in today's market a "WOW factor bike" would require:
1) a variety of style designs around the same bones. Standard, "café", "scrambler", "cruiser"... but mean it. Not just styling cues.
2) fantastic emissions and fuel economy... it matters. Especially to a new generation.
3) impeccable build quality before sale, and impeccable support after sale. People want to ride... not wrench or wait for parts. "quirk" only has value to Blackthumbs.
4) LED lighting all around.
5) mid-sized... 500 to 800cc tops.
6) A low maintenance schedule, with easily available maintenance supplies.
7) cast wheels.
8) good aftermarket support.
9) a solid "image" attached to brand, through marketing.
10) Honda build quality, H-D mystique, R.E. pricing.
So, you've just described the V7/V9 lineup, mostly...
Personally, it does seem to me that Guzzi is heading towards a lineup of 750-1000cc small block variants. The California 1400 is withering on the vine. Guzzi hasn't even tried to offer any color choices. Black or red. Pretty boring. The CARC platform was not replaced, and no spyshots of anything in development. All of the development that's come through over the past few years has been to the small block variants.
And the small blocks sell. I guess I can't blame Piaggio/Guzzi. You have to sell what the customer is buying. You have to make money to pay the bills.
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CAN’T.RESIST.MUST.CHIME.IN......
So I’m an older, read seasoned rider....having owned too many bikes to count over the last almost 50 years. And owning up to 7 at one time. Although I personally don’t want the hassle of tending to 7 bikes and the costs associated. If you do or you’re able to hire mechanics like Jay Lenos garage then, more power to ya.
What I will say about Guzzi is, it had me at first glance. Can't remember where or even the model but that Twin transverse was just beautiful. Then firing up the motor and the legendary twist, it just works for me. Don’t care if that could be a problem under sever cornering, I don’t do that anymore.
The V7 is successful for Guzzi and the EV is probably the best all around Guzzi made imho. Not gonna cafe, bobber, chop or otherwise redesign my bikes. Hats off to those who do and I appreciate good craftsmanship, artsmanship (is that even a word?) etc. even if I’m not going to buy or ride one. Kinda like the custom choppers of yester yore, didn’t ride them then and yet I admired the efforts to customize them to the owners tastes. (btw they handled horribly)
So, ride whatever you like and like whatever you ride. Let’s not argue about what another mans or womans ride is or isn't to us.People are more important than the bikes they ride or customize.
Personally, I like this forum and everyone on it but seriously, we can get in the weeds and forget what we’re united around. Riding and on this forum mostly Guzzi’s.
Capiche?
Over and out
inditx
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I actually feel like the v85tt at least so far has the Wow factor. I can’t think of any Guzzi in recent decades that has attracted this level of attention from so many sources. Will it live up to the hype, will see, but it certainly is drawing more attention to Guzzi than anything else in some time.
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:thumb: bad chad
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I actually feel like the v85tt at least so far has the Wow factor. I can’t think of any Guzzi in recent decades that has attracted this level of attention from so many sources. Will it live up to the hype, will see, but it certainly is drawing more attention to Guzzi than anything else in some time.
Agreed. It seems to be generating lots of interest across the board.
I hope it's good.
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Agreed. It seems to be generating lots of interest across the board.
I hope it's good.
hope people can find one...
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hope people can find one...
It's sort of like finding a Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, or Maserati dealership. If you want one, you will make the effort. If you want a Honda, Acura, Toyota, Lexus, Chevrolet, or Cadillac, much less effort is required.
Low effort motorcycle buyers have plenty of Honda and Harley motorcycle superstores available for the easy-out.
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a new Guzzi with the wow factor and mass appeal,should look like a .....Griso ................ :whip2:
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For me it would be an updated Griso (+ABS) or a successor using CARC and the 8V engine.
Alternative:
https://www.ipothesys.com/aria-v12/