Author Topic: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?  (Read 10085 times)

Online willowstreetguzziguy

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Granted, we all have different tastes and riding styles, period.  What would a new Guzzi look like that would appeal to the masses? Maybe it's the current V7 variants, maybe it's the coming V85TT or something we haven't seen yet. What design would get a large percentage of Guzzi riders excited as well as non-Guzzi riders?  One that would get lots of folks to sit up and say WOW, I LOVE THAT, I'D BUY THAT!!!???
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Offline kballowe

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 08:41:24 AM »

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 08:45:14 AM »
A lightweight street legal 500cc 2 stroke DS/Motard with tubeless spoke wheels and e-start. That also came with a case of Castor 927 bean oil and a bottle of Hoppes #9 just for extra added manly scent :thumb:





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Offline s1120

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 08:58:32 AM »
Give the V7 10 more HP, and maybe some paint options that are shiny...  really other then that, they have a pretty WOW line as it is... IMHO the best looking for many years..  the key with MG isnt the line....  its the fact that noone knows they are in the US, or how to buy one... 
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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 08:58:32 AM »

Offline jas67

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 09:03:40 AM »
Granted, we all have different tastes and riding styles, period.  What would a new Guzzi look like that would appeal to the masses? Maybe it's the current V7 variants, maybe it's the coming V85TT or something we haven't seen yet. What design would get a large percentage of Guzzi riders excited as well as non-Guzzi riders? 

The V7.

One that would get lots of folks to sit up and say WOW, I LOVE THAT, I'D BUY THAT!!!???

I did, four times now.

And, all of my V7's aways got (and get) lots of attention from riders and not riders alike.

A Nuovo 850 Le Mans with the V85TT motor, Ohlins rear shocks from the V7III Racer, and forks with modern internals from Race Tech, Showa, or similar would get me real week in the knees, and likely be dangerous to my financial balance sheet.

Give the V7 10 more HP, and maybe some paint options that are shiny...  really other then that, they have a pretty WOW line as it is... IMHO the best looking for many years..  the key with MG isnt the line....  its the fact that noone knows they are in the US, or how to buy one... 

Definitely some shiny paint options (aside from the bland grey of the Milano) and cast wheels on the same bike.
There really is no reason they can't at least offer the cast wheels on the Special as a special-order option.

As others have already said though, I think Guzzi's biggest problem is the lack of dealers.   And this comes from how Piaggio treats their dealers.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 09:06:37 AM by jas67 »
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Offline JJ

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 09:10:28 AM »


"The ULTIMATE little TIDDLER!!"  I want one...  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 09:15:14 AM »
Something like a Griso where they cut about 4" off the wheel base and loose 100#
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Offline JJ

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 09:24:07 AM »
QUOTE:  As others have already said though, I think Guzzi's biggest problem is the lack of dealers.   And this comes from how Piaggio treats their dealers.

Agree with this 100% - - Current line of Guzzi's are fine...THIS is the bigger issue!! :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:
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Offline Murray

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 09:38:39 AM »
QUOTE:  As others have already said though, I think Guzzi's biggest problem is the lack of dealers.   And this comes from how Piaggio treats their dealers.

Agree with this 100% - - Current line of Guzzi's are fine...THIS is the bigger issue!! :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:

I'm the opposite they make nothing currently I would consider buying, IMO forget the air cooled shaft drive Vtwin its had its day, clean sheet design V8 hyabusa style bike, super light weight horizontal single with all the performance tweaks that modern singles have, possibly forced induction a modern V twin let aprilia have the fours and let Guzzi have the twin street bikes. The current lineup is either completely lackluster in the riding experience (V7) massively overweight and handles like a barge (cali series) or both (V9). I am curious to see some road reviews of the V85 motor but even if they hit the targets they might even match a 25year old 1100 sport and when you already own one of those and they are hilariously pedestrian compared to the modern stuff its not exactly inspiring to get my money out.

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 09:52:24 AM »
What a good concept for a thread.
It'll be interesting to see what the masses on this forum will come up with. I cannot conceive of anything myself but agree that there needs to be a bit of "sexiness" that the modern Guzzi does not possess in enough quantity to attract mass appeal.
Maybe that IS the appeal, dunno.
But there needs to be a bit of Ducati Testastrettaitidnis designed in, or some MVededness...!
As a relative newcomer I can say I think the modern Guzzi looks lovely, but so do all the milfs over 45 at the pub. It's only because I'm old and I've got one more new bike purchase in me.
Sad to say, but I reckon the transverse air cooled V twin layout is so quintessentially Guzzi, that while that arrangement remains, I think the subliminal message to the young folk will scream..."OLD FASHIONED" and only track focussed success would turn the tide of opinion.
No one under 40 has ever seen a Guzzi do anything but embarrass itself in top level competition if at all and most of the hipsters think Dr John is an old musician, to try to convince them otherwise is like pulling teeth and that is the root of the problem... :rolleyes:

Offline s1120

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 10:24:25 AM »

Sad to say, but I reckon the transverse air cooled V twin layout is so quintessentially Guzzi, that while that arrangement remains, I think the subliminal message to the young folk will scream..."OLD FASHIONED" and only track focussed success would turn the tide of opinion.
No one under 40 has ever seen a Guzzi do anything but embarrass itself in top level competition if at all and most of the hipsters think Dr John is an old musician, to try to convince them otherwise is like pulling teeth and that is the root of the problem... :rolleyes:

The thing is that the twins are still selling...  V twins, and the new crop of parallel twins are still selling well. Also the new crop of riders really seem to like the vintage Cafe style, and really the V7 fits right in there. I think that if guzzi lost the transverse Vtwin it would be gone.. that is really the last thing that makes it stand out from the others. A small european brand will never be able to match all that the big ones offer..  you gotta run with what you got. They cant be the next R1.. or the GSXR...  but they can be one of the better vintage style bikes... the cafe bikes, and really...  they could do well in the touring and cruse/touring market.. you read the reviews and they love them....  as long as you dont need a dealer... some dealers, some visible adds either print, or online...  some buzz, get the brand out on the streets... even with the MG small batches of bikes. Nothing raises the want of a brand then being exclusive...  But again.. that's a pipe dream that the company doesn't care to invest in...  And you know... there is 50 years of bikes out there on the road, and a lot of people like the crew here that know a lot about them.. Im 54 so doubt the company going under will effect my enjoyment..
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Offline fossil

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 10:42:45 AM »
The V7. Especially the Milano with additional colours to the beautiful grey.

The current lineup is either completely lackluster in the riding experience (V7).....

I tend to disagree.
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 11:00:25 AM »
As far as I'm concerned, that new 850 dual sport is the right "format" for me and my area/riding style. But the Tiger's paid for <shrug>
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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 11:08:45 AM »
Thing is also.
Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 20 k's or more, you WILL lose your licence for a nasty period and 30 k's over you WILL have your bike impounded for some time and it costs a lot to get it back.
Point is.
Most clear thinking individuals know that it is now pointless to own a performance sportsbike, although many still do.
If you rock up to a standard bike gathering these days, he who rocks up on a Panigale new MV looks like a try hard attention seeker, which he always was, but it was not as obvious.
I don't know whether outright performance is the big driver that it used to be..
Again, if there were 50 road legal MGS 01's and 50 Ducati Panigale's on a dealers floor, I'd wager that the stock of each would diminish a lot more evenly than might be once thought.
I would certainly prefer the Guzzi to the Duke.
BTW..
I'm not suggesting it's a conceivable reality, just an indication that performance is less of a consideration here than it was even 10 years ago.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 11:18:48 AM »
I worked on a few of these and they are nice--

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Offline Murray

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2019, 11:22:19 AM »
The thing is that the twins are still selling...  V twins, and the new crop of parallel twins are still selling well. Also the new crop of riders really seem to like the vintage Cafe style, and really the V7 fits right in there. I think that if guzzi lost the transverse Vtwin it would be gone.. that is really the last thing that makes it stand out from the others. A small european brand will never be able to match all that the big ones offer..  you gotta run with what you got.

I'm not saying don't make them anymore I'm saying simply punching out more of the same doesn't cut it emissions and noise regulations are working against it so from the get go the engine design is behind everything else. The original question was wow factor and mass appeal currently they don't have it with a current customer with two of their products in the shed (i.e. me) and a very good dealer locally, Guzzi are selling in finger and toes numbers. Having said that have you ridden any of the current parallel twins or something like the Scrambler and compared them to Guzzi's lineup I suggest you do. A small European brand will never beat the big Japanese four that's why Ducati Aprilia have never won a world championship in anything... oh wait hang on. With Piaggio as the corporate master Guzzi aren't exactly a small company anymore.

More of the same will get you more of the same and with Piaggio's and Aprilia's technical expertise there is no excuse for it, if you want to go back Guzzi's foundation that was forged on the race track and from bold engineering, not pandering to a tradition.

The V7 is simply a nice round town bike, so is a Vespa.

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2019, 11:31:16 AM »
 Let Guzzi be Guzzi , they can't compete with the bigger companies in the high performance market . Remember , Aprilia probably sells fewer bikes than Guzzi does , and they have some serious street cred in that market . Fix the way the company interacts with its dealers , improve quality control at the origin point , and continue developing some fairly simple designs .

 Dusty

Offline Murray

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2019, 11:31:36 AM »
Thing is also.
Here in Oz, if you exceed the limit by 20 k's or more, you WILL lose your licence for a nasty period and 30 k's over you WILL have your bike impounded for some time and it costs a lot to get it back.
Point is.

Again, if there were 50 road legal MGS 01's and 50 Ducati Panigale's on a dealers floor, I'd wager that the stock of each would diminish a lot more evenly than might be once thought.
I would certainly prefer the Guzzi to the Duke.
BTW..
I'm not suggesting it's a conceivable reality, just an indication that performance is less of a consideration here than it was even 10 years ago.

The MGS-01 design is close to 15 years old it is slightly faster than a 600 supersport the Panigale's put out another 70hp, thats right almost a cali 1400 on top of the MGS performance. There are these things called track days that are quiet popular, Basically I don't go on group rides anymore with the 1100 sport even if we are vaguely doing to speed limit it accelerates so slowly what is a quick squirt for a modern bike up to the limit becomes sitting on well over the limit for the next 5kms to get people back in sight. Performance is less of a consideration not really, but it would be nice if a few performance bike brands did things like fit fuel tanks bigger than 15 litres. Guzzi are so woefully behind everything, I have had a few friends that are not fast riders buy Ducati scrambler over the V7 because simply the Guzzi didn't have enough go for them nothing breeds success like excess.

Offline usedtobefast

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2019, 11:43:20 AM »
I guess another way to think about this, what other bikes have mass appeal and a WOW factor? 

The Ducati Scrambler line has done well.  Why?
- they were WAY cheaper than other Ducatis.  With their sport bikes $15k-$25K, you could get a scrambler around $8K.  "I got a Ducati!"
- "I got a Ducati" is a cool thing to say in the office.  Most non moto people know what a Ducati is.  "I got a Moto Guzzi" would probably get you a "what is a Moto Guzzi" response.
- The bikes looked pretty approachable and non scary.  Basic looking motorcycle.  Not all wrapped in plastic.
- Insurance rates weren't sport bike high.
- Ducati timed that perfectly with the hipster phase.
- Bikes sold to hipsters, hipster want-a-be's, new riders, new ish riders, experienced riders that thought the bike looked neat and simple.
- Enough dealers around in places where people have $8k-$10K to spend on a bike.

None of this means a Ducati Scrambler is a great bike. 

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2019, 12:03:30 PM »
The MGS-01 design is close to 15 years old it is slightly faster than a 600 supersport the Panigale's put out another 70hp, thats right almost a cali 1400 on top of the MGS performance. There are these things called track days that are quiet popular, Basically I don't go on group rides anymore with the 1100 sport even if we are vaguely doing to speed limit it accelerates so slowly what is a quick squirt for a modern bike up to the limit becomes sitting on well over the limit for the next 5kms to get people back in sight. Performance is less of a consideration not really, but it would be nice if a few performance bike brands did things like fit fuel tanks bigger than 15 litres. Guzzi are so woefully behind everything, I have had a few friends that are not fast riders buy Ducati scrambler over the V7 because simply the Guzzi didn't have enough go for them nothing breeds success like excess.
So Muzz.
If you could ride out on a Panigale or a street legal MGS, which one would it be ?

Offline fossil

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2019, 12:19:20 PM »
Usedtobefast has enumbered a lot of absolutely valid points. And reading them another thought came to me: What bike has a "WOW" - factor today? Like the big Guzzis at their time, the Honda CB 750, yes, the Norton Commando? Well, look what they sell today. Here in Germany a quarter of all bikes are BMW Boxer GS! That is not a bad bike, of course not, but is it better than a Super Duke, a Multistrada, and the more? "WOW" - like? No, I think not. It is a Status Symbol. It is "in". Old men who otherwise drive Audi 6 have a GS and ride them when the wheather is right on the road. Looking as if they want to go to war. And without exception an ugly yellow vest tugged over an extremely expensive non-leather combi from BMW.

Think of it: a lot of companies now try to make bikes that "touch" their riders emotionally. Bikes that remind on the times of CB 750 et al. Honda, Kawasaki, Enfield, Ducati (successful) with the Scrambler. And then there are at least two brands that make good rideable, docile, beautiful and reasonably priced bikes exactly of this sort for years: Harley the Sportster, Moto Guzzi the V7. Should Guzzi abandon this chance and try to compete in fields that are occupied by very good producers with bikes of really all thinkable sorts, including Aprilia? Or should they proceed in carefully carrying on in what they can?

Of course, the V85 opens new opportunities. But I think other than the 1400 series this is a prudent way to do.

And, yes, when I park my white V7 Stone in our town, I normally get approached by passers-by.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 12:29:27 PM by fossil »
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Offline BrotherJim

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2019, 12:19:42 PM »


Interesting.  I just picked-up a '68 CT90!
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oldbike54

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2019, 12:34:43 PM »
Interesting.  I just picked-up a '68 CT90!

 All by yourself ?

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2019, 12:58:16 PM »
I used to think a new bike might be all it would take, one that would catch fire.   I doubting that now.  I do think the v85 has the best chance in years of being a "big" hit by Guzzi standards, but I don't think any one bike can change the big picture, not even one by the big 5.

I agree that a cultural event of some kind may need to happen to really fire up motorcycle sales.  There is simply so much more to compete with motorcycles today, that didn't exist in the last century.  Bikes just don't stand out like they once did from the crowd.  That and what may be a lack of imagination on the part of the mfgs too.

 I haven't seen numbers, but I suspect the advent of 4 wheel quads has decimated the demand for off road/enduro bikes.   I just don't see many young folks on dirt bikes, I do see a lot more on quads.   If they don't get started young, the chance of getting into bikes when older has to be significantly lower.

It seems the industry is headed for a new normal of being half of what it once was.   Times change.   But I hope I'm wrong.
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Offline Roebling3

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2019, 01:37:24 PM »
I'm w/P'mex14, - mostly.

"A lightweight street legal 500cc 2 stroke DS/Motard with tubeless spoke wheels and e-start. That also came with a case of Castor 927 bean oil and a bottle of Hoppes #9 just for extra added manly scent :thumb: "

I've got a near case of Castor, but doubt that it plays well with fuel, oil and bearing lube injection systems in current best developed 2 strokes. I also like the idea of a back to the roots *500cc horizontal single,w/chain drive!!

The yet to be available Aprilia RS660 could easily cause me to jump ship. It's got everything I want suspension, handling, brakes, power, a real fairing. The first 3
I added to my V7III Racer. BTW: the RS 660 weighs 100# less than a V7 OTD $?

Another alternate, for years on my mind, is: Body kits from Ipothysis, Gezzi & Brion, the MGS01 designers. (I cannot recall their names).

MG's modern, standard/sport/adventure are already here in the form of the V85.  Separating levels of front and rear suspension, wheels, brakes and tires will accommodate different apps. The body kits would manage the aesthetics.

For beginners, commuters, errand runners/messengers & certain sport bikers a 500cc 4 stroke, horizontal single would bring a smile. A low center of gravity and centralized mass, for better balance front to back. Chain/belt drive - less weight. Much of the required suspension, braking & power transfer equipment is already on the shelves of Aprilia. There are many liquid cooled engines to choose from. Rotax ?

Risking a hanging: The yclept small block needs to vanish. It has a limited future at best. We don't yet know enough about the V85/9 engines, but for all the fuss over big and small the separation betwixt the two is rather small. It's 3? very different engines, all of low volume production, to track and support. Very costly from a timing, production and marketing issue. - A serious economic burden for MG. Perhaps it's the Euro tax codes? And what of the 1400cc engine? Liquid cooling, other than oil, is a significant hurdle for all engines.  R3~   







Offline BrotherJim

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2019, 01:59:10 PM »
Short Time Livin'...

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Offline Tusayan

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2019, 02:07:23 PM »
Bruno Ghezzi designed the MGS-01 and later went to work for Piaggio.  They alienated him, and that was the end of that.

Piaggio bought Aprilia (and with it Guzzi) to eliminate the competition in the scooter market and provide demand for Piaggio produced engines.  Rotax departed the scene and won't be supplying engines for Piaggio products of any brand again.

The small block engine is now perceived as Guzzis future, cheaper to make and lighter. Whether that vision is true depends on whether the V85 actually makes something like the claimed power.  If it works they become a single engine brand.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 02:12:38 PM by Tusayan »

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2019, 02:08:34 PM »
That's change it up for we that have long inseam!

How about a:
45 degree V air cooled (for and aft) twin 1 ltr. 2valve. 85 hp to the wheel

Rear set pegs..
Flat track bars
just a tack and speedo with volt meter and oil pressure.
Kick ass lights
17" wheels for and aft.
Dual discs up front (aluminum ceramic)
5 gal tank
chain drive
50 deg lean angle possible
Ohlin suspension
semi dual seat w/bag brackets
450# wet.
Under $12,500

I'll take two!

Hasn't that already kinda been done?


Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2019, 02:56:38 PM »
That's change it up for we that have long inseam!

How about a:
45 degree V air cooled (fore and aft) twin 1 ltr. 2valve. 85 hp to the wheel

Rear set pegs..
Flat track bars
just a tack and speedo with volt meter and oil pressure.
Kick ass lights
17" wheels for and aft.
Dual discs up front (aluminum ceramic)
5 gal tank
chain drive
50 deg lean angle possible
Ohlin suspension
semi dual seat w/bag brackets
450# wet.
Under $12,500

I'll take two!
what I like and might come closest is the Hyperstrada..
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Offline Murray

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Re: What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2019, 04:28:54 PM »
So Muzz.
If you could ride out on a Panigale or a street legal MGS, which one would it be ?

Hard decision I haven't ridden the Panigale so its hard to compare and do you mean the V twin or the V four? I have no doubt the Duc motor would spool up faster then advantages of slipper clutches etc are hard to deny. The MGS is more of a 11 degree tettastrda motor al la diavel/multistrada.

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