What would a new Guzzi look like with the WOW factor and mass appeal?

[ScepticalScotty]

I'm suprised people think the V7 is an "around town" bike. I must be well hard to have ridden mine (ok it is a B750) 53,000 miles with trips as far as the Pyrenees and back from Roscoff, Scotland and back from Plymouth, etc etc...

[blackcat]

Even down on power, I’d still take the MGS20 or whatever it might be called, compared to the Ducati. If they could make one with 125-140hp it would be acceptable. I’m pretty sure it won’t happen, but it would bring a different crowd into the showrooms.

[Gliderjohn]

I think the right track for Guzzi is showing up here. Stay with the current engine configuration, tweaking it where possible. Accept the HP limits and then work within that.
Guzzi was developed and lives in the world of twisties. Guzzi needs to go with that. Put their emphasis on hanldling and dependability (which is there by design if they can just get build QC to a higher and CONSISTENT level) and develop a REAL dealership network with REAL and PROPER support.
GliderJohn

[bad Chad]

Piaggio has spent the last decade trying to market Guzzi as the Italian alternative to HD,  but on a far smaller scale.   Did it work?    Not so much.   

This has to be at the very least the third incarnation of this thread, probably more since I started posting.  It’s remarkable how little has changed regarding the perceived problems and solutions.

[oldbike54]

 ^^^Well Chad , in 3 years Moto Guzzi will been going out of business for 100 years .

 Dusty

[Murray]

I'm suprised people think the V7 is an "around town" bike. I must be well hard to have ridden mine (ok it is a B750) 53,000 miles with trips as far as the Pyrenees and back from Roscoff, Scotland and back from Plymouth, etc etc...

People ride CT110's across continents doesn't make them the best tourer.

[Bobic69]

Don't know if this pic has been posted before but I'd love to see it made. It's just a concept I found on the net that someone knocked up. I think it looks the duck's nuts. Le Mans inspired with a modern twist.

[twowings]

If someone would make a full touring fairing to complement the lines of the Griso, I'd be all over that...

[roadventure]

"What would a new Guzzi look like that would appeal to the masses?"

It would look like a Moto Guzzi that had a realistic dealer network.

[TN Mark]

Who can Guzzi afford to hire that they would listen to?

Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.

I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle. 

More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.   

When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.   

Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!

[fotoguzzi]

Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.

I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle. 

More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.   

When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.   

Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!

they should hire Erik Buell

[TN Mark]

Really? How many times does his name need to be attached to failure to make it complete?

[SED]

Don't know about mass appeal, but certainly street cred - I think because the engine is so easy to see.  Pictures from the 1 Moto Show in Portland:

              


Guzzis at their core have a visible, good-looking drive train, are durable, handle decent, stop well, and are fun to ride making them an ideal canvas for custom bike builders who have little to correct.  Guzzis are ridden by a dedicated following that are perceived as experienced enthusiasts. These attributes give Guzzis street cred - a great starting point for mass appeal.  This may be why the V7 is so successful (relatively) - it is a standard that is not trying to do anything but be a good basic bike (i.e., good-looking drive train, durable, handle decent, stop well, and fun to ride) but it carries with it all the history, credibility and custom bike potential.  This must be why Piaggio publicizes modified bikes and supports shows where they appear.

If Guzzi went away from the cross frame V-twin it would be like BMW giving up the boxer and betting everything on the sloper 4 (and 6!) - why not buy a UJM?  The boxer is still the core personality of BMW - thus the R9T.  (the flying bricks were the best alternative - very BMW and certainly classics)  Guzzi could pull off a different engine style (flat single, 120 degree inline twin, sloper triple?) but the V-twin would have to remain (at least for a while) to represent history and core discipline of the brand.

[pete roper]

Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.

Pete

[Huzo]

I think the right track for Guzzi is showing up here. Stay with the current engine configuration, tweaking it where possible. Accept the HP limits and then work within that.
Guzzi was developed and lives in the world of twisties. Guzzi needs to go with that. Put their emphasis on hanldling and dependability (which is there by design if they can just get build QC to a higher and CONSISTENT level) and develop a REAL dealership network with REAL and PROPER support.
GliderJohn

We do have PROPER support here in Oz..
But there's a gap between the P and the R..

[fossil]

Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.

Pete

Competitive in the market or competitive on the track? The first it is ( I have preferred it about the Sportster Roadster 883 because for me it is the more fitting bike). Competitiveness in the market ist the thing that counts. For the competitiveness on the track Piaggio has already a brand (cited for the umpteenth time): Aprilia. And the miserable smallblock platform has already achieved an important thing: it has saved the brand. Because obviously riders like me consciously chose this platform - and like it. And so, yes, it is a viable business strategy. You don´t like it? Fine. But not important for the success of the brand.

Equally it is not important for BMW that I don´t like the GS and its rider clientele. They are very successful and so it is right what they do.

[Smithy]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSnVtE6ZH9kiYsSxy_0u25epViqY0mF3acbUB3QaEJj1CEnHPjx

Should have followed these guys a decade ago..

As Huzo said, here in Australia super high performance bikes are a complete waste of time, (I was keen on the new H2 se sx Kawasaki but its performance was one of the reasons I dismissed it, it would have ended up impounded). At the moment my perfect garage would have a V85TT for adventure and a premium roadster version as the nice around town, keep polished machine..
Guzzi just need to get the bikes out there more, my Cali 1400 always gets attention and a lot of people know of Guzzi but have no idea of what they currently sell.

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

Was the old loop frame on display inside the 1-Moto Show or parked outside by a rider attending the event?

[fossil]

I think it can be said this way: There will not be a "WOW" - bike for all riders anymore. The "WOW" factor is strictly individual today. And that is a good thing.

[Perazzimx14]

Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.

I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle. 

More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.   

When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.   

Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!

So your saying with the help of the man who created these abominations Guzzi would prosper?

[Litre1000]

MGS-01 or Panigali ? MGS-01 any day of the week! It’s still the koolest looking bike in the world...! I’m only 55 and have my eyes set on getting a sport bike with lots of character. The MGS-01 is the one I want. But, I guess I’ll have to settle for a Daytona. If I can ever find one!

[s1120]

MGS-01 or Panigali ? MGS-01 any day of the week! It’s still the koolest looking bike in the world...! I’m only 55 and have my eyes set on getting a sport bike with lots of character. The MGS-01 is the one I want. But, I guess I’ll have to settle for a Daytona. If I can ever find one!

See just to show that cutting edge isn't always the best... My sport bike of choice would be a early 90's 900SS..  So classic, a little crude, and raw, and strikingly beautiful.  Seamless has no appeal to me.

[Huzo]

Was it Tamburini that waved the wand over the MGS ?
It looks reminiscent of the BMW R 1100 S, Ducati 916 and the F4 MV's. He is the master stylist IMO.
The Panigale is the beautiful woman with manners...
The MGS is the slightly dirty half dressed one with tossed hair..
(I couldn't give a bugger how quickly she can run around the block..!)

[Toecutter]

Give the V7 10 more HP, and maybe some paint options that are shiny...  really other then that, they have a pretty WOW line as it is... IMHO the best looking for many years..  the key with MG isnt the line....  its the fact that noone knows they are in the US, or how to buy one...

...and the service/supply chain sucks.

[Toecutter]

And here I thought the Ness family's design  cred had dried up along with the Tuttles. You think there is still interest among young/new customers for choppers?  I'm not sure Guzzi survival would be worth it at that price....   

You... need to get out more. There is a HUGE underground chopper/custom scene for young riders... I can attest to it, firsthand. Come on by, I'l lbring you to a couple of ride-in/rallies.

Now, that said... Ness/ The Tootles and the like? Not even close to having a finger on the pulse of the current chopper/custom scene. 

[Murray]

Was it Tamburini that waved the wand over the MGS ?
It looks reminiscent of the BMW R 1100 S, Ducati 916 and the F4 MV's. He is the master stylist IMO.

Ghezzi and Brian about the only thing they shared was they were Italian. It is a lot wider than the MV and the 916 in both body work and motor a lot of the side shots that you see don't convey this, TBH other than having a pointy front end and under seat exhaust that's about where it starts and stops IMO. The BMW 1100s doesn't compare to any of those three bikes in anyway IMO its far more rounded early 90's aesthetic more 900ss than 916. Although this illustrates the point of a top line sports bike 15 years latter people are talking about a bike that is totally impractical, not even road registered (in most places anyway) and the factory over a period of five years barely made 130 examples.

[Toecutter]

Sadly I agree with the above because Guzzi no longer build competitive motorbikes. They, or their masters, have decided that the 'Brand' should only build fashion accessories that appeal to those who like the *Idea* of a motorbike without actually knowing or understanding anything about them. It seems to be a viable business strategy as they continue to build and 'Develop' the miserable smallblock platform rather than shit-canning the whole lot and starting anew.

Pete

For those who require a translation "Get offa my lawn".

[rocker59]

Piaggio should roll a V7 and California 1400 into Strokers in Dallas and let Rick Fairless do what he does so well. Rick would also very likely offer a ton of free design advice to Piaggio if they'd listen. They should also roll these same bikes into Arlen Ness's shop and let Cory and Zach Ness have their way with the bikes as well. I forgot the name one of the top American designer from years past at Yamaha. Gary something??? He also had some excellent designs. Roll a bike into Paul Yaffe's building and see what he'd come up with as well. Sadly, this will likely not happen. Why? Because everyone of these guys would ask where's the 'big' motor line since they're so used to the larger motors in the H-D, Honda, Yamaha, Victory and Polaris Indian that take up so much of their current time. But they'd sure know how to redesign the Guzzi frames to offer bikes with 26" seat heights.

I don't currently own a Guzzi so I don't have a dog in this. But too many of the V7 variants and the V9 are as exciting as an itch. And too many of the 1400's look more like an assembly of parts than a designed motorcycle. 

More than anything, the American dealer network is beyond an embarrassment. No matter what Piaggio does with the bikes, it won't make a dent in the US market with their current dealer network. At some point, Piaggio will be forced to either stop supporting the Guzzi brand and close it or actually put money into reviving it. Piaggio can't continue to support a money losing niche brand indefinitely. And forget any Marketing strategy on winning races decades before most of the current owners and buyers were even born. This is still the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd.   

When someone who's interested does find a dealer, all too often the dealer will know nothing about the bike or the brand. Plus they may have 2, 3 or even older brand new bikes sitting on the floor. It's hard to say 'sales failure' more strongly than with a brand new 3 plus model year old bike being offered at below wholesale pricing.   

Maybe Piaggio should take a year off and forget anything 'new' for model year 2020. They could simply concentrate on getting feedback from people who have a successful history of designing exciting motorcycles. Then come out strong with some fully designed and well engineered models for their century line in 2021. And yes, grease all the bearings, every one of them!

This is so full of wrong, I don't know where to start...

I guess you're not aware that Piaggio has Miguel Galluzzi and a California-based design studio for Guzzi.
 Or, that Piaggio has invested tens of millions of Euros into Guzzi over the past 15 years, and that Guzzi is making money at their current 10,000+ units per year production.

The last thing Guzzi needs is American chopper shops designing motorcycles for them...

[Perazzimx14]

You... need to get out more. There is a HUGE underground chopper/custom scene for young riders... I can attest to it, firsthand. Come on by, I'l lbring you to a couple of ride-in/rallies.

Now, that said... Ness/ The Tootles and the like? Not even close to having a finger on the pulse of the current chopper/custom scene.

If you want to see choppers in my area look no further than CL under motorcycles for sale.

Look at the TOTD slayer with only 850 pain free miles on it and for only $22,000 it can be yours

[Sheepdog]

I was recently on the ModernVespa forum and there was a discussion about desirable motorcycles. The V7, Enfields, Ducati Scramblers, and Hinckley Bonnevilles all came up multiple times. If the scooter scene is an entry point for motorcycling, affordable standards with smallish engines (preferably European) seem to be popular. Perhaps motorcycling needs to be rebuilt in the way that the Japanese did it in the sixties...start with an affordable and practical platform, style it to resemble a revered classic, add in a few modern electronic conveniences (not necessarily performance aids) and a new market cycle will begin. I actually believe that Guzzi knows this and is sending out as many ideas as they can create with the Small Block format to get feedback on emerging trends. I expect things like locking phone charging slots and flashy TFT dashes and the like will end up being what separates the contenders from the "also-rans." Guzzi is in a pretty good place to compete, as most of their engineering and tooling are paid for. A young popular electronics innovator may be all they need to capture a new generation of riders.