Author Topic: New build thoughts  (Read 538 times)

Online Scout63

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New build thoughts
« on: October 22, 2021, 12:11:07 PM »
So Iím thinking out a new build for the Ď79 SP I bought from Tom in NC through the forum.  I finished my G5/T3 project and it needs a little sorting but is pretty much done.

For the next project I want to build something lighter looking, more aggressive and just for, well, annoying the tourists around here.  Iím thinking a budget Kaffeemaschine build with softer ergonomics.  I also would like to try assembling the motor for more performance, really just to see if I can do it.

I would like to send the crank, rods, cylinders and heads to Ed Milich for some balancing and light breathing.  I just read all of his books and his writing alone puts me squarely in his debt.  Iíve already bought a P3 cam from Stein Dinse and ordered chrome LaFranconi up pipes from MG Cycle.  I have a pair of 36 PHMs on the shelf.  I like the Sachse EI since it has selectable curves and worked well on the v50. So the engine side of it I think I know what I want.

Iím going to keep the cast wheels, probably install a new smaller Brembo front master cylinder and replace the brake lines with ss, keeping them linked. I may well keep the switches, and instead of rewiring myself order new harnesses from Greg Bender.  I have a Motogadget tach in black so I could instead install with an M-unit.  The learning curve was pretty steep but I have a lot of left over stuff.  Or maybe refit the stock gauges with T3/Lemans holders.  I like that look.

Where Iím really at a loss is bodywork and bars.  I donít really want clip-ons or rearsets.  I like the v7 sport dual seat and tank.  Would it be ok to source those and install superbike type bars? Should I lean toward a polished aluminum tank? What to do with sidecovers?  I donít really want to deal with opening up the center.

I really want all opinions on all aspects, and even pictures.  Not having a clear vision stinks.  Iíll start a build thread when I get the bike and start disassembling.

Thanks - Ben

Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - next up to unload
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - T3FB mild custom
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000SP
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2021, 03:02:08 PM »
I'd also lighten the flywheel and dual plug the heads add in 2:1:2 exhaust with 14" reverse cone mufflers otta make the tourists take notice.
It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

Online Scout63

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2021, 03:36:13 PM »
I'd also lighten the flywheel and dual plug the heads add in 2:1:2 exhaust with 14" reverse cone mufflers otta make the tourists take notice.

Of course - the flywheel. Is dual plugging worth it?
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - next up to unload
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - T3FB mild custom
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000SP
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Online radguzzi

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2021, 03:38:32 PM »

Did you happen to see this SP that TOMB posted for us to gaze at on B a T...?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-moto-guzzi-1000sp/

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2021, 03:38:32 PM »

Online Scout63

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2021, 03:48:56 PM »
I did.  It kind of shows me what I donít want.  The tank, seat and sidecovers donít work together, and the finish isnít great.  I love the Bubs though.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - next up to unload
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - T3FB mild custom
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000SP
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Offline John Croucher

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2021, 04:37:26 PM »
Of course - the flywheel. Is dual plugging worth it?

Finding someone who can and will actually don't is the problem. Some say they can, but won't.  I have set a set of heads to 4 places only to get them back not done. 

I am going to do them myself. There are a couple of ways to do it.  One way does not require any welding.   

Online Scout63

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2021, 01:51:16 AM »
Thanks John. Iím not sure that I want to dual plug. Iíll re-read Guzziology on the point and talk it over with Ed. If I remember correctly thereís not a lot of head to work with.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - next up to unload
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - T3FB mild custom
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000SP
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Offline Turin

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2021, 06:06:04 PM »
My 2 cents; the cafe thing has been done to death. Kudos for wanting to hop up the motor and not building another sheep in wolves clothing. I went the easy route with my 850T and am pretty happy with the results. (tank and seat were rusted through when I bought her as a project in 2004. back then the repop tanks were about half the price they are now. seat came from Cosmopolitan Motors)

Upgrades:
Megacycle X9 cam from E-bay
Delorto 36 carbs
Lemans flywheel - mildly lightened - came with my parts stash
ported heads with stock sized stainless valves from ferracci.
Gilardoni cylinder kit. Copper head and base gaskets made to set the squish at 40 thousandths and bump compression up.
Mistral exhaust with bub mufflers
EBC rotors with 4 piston calipers on stock master cylinder
Fac Dampners with wirth springs and longer Ikon Dial a ride shocks for a lemans 1000.












2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2021, 06:38:15 PM »
Attaboy.. :thumb: That is a nice scooter, Turin.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Online Michael Moore

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2021, 06:49:20 PM »
There are a couple of ways to do it.  One way does not require any welding.

That's the first I've seen mention of needing to do welding to add the second spark plug.  When I did mine an angle plate and milling machine were all that was needed, other than swapping to a modified SHCS instead of the nut and stud.  It looks like I used a 7/8" end mill to make room for the smaller plug.

Online Frenchfrog

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2021, 02:51:37 AM »
The square fin heads need to have the oiling path changed so they need welding up...

Offline Turin

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2021, 04:25:17 AM »
Thanks Chuck !

I'm pretty pleased with the end result after 15+ years of playing with it. I share my engine recipe because it makes for a nice ride without going crazy with aftermarket race parts.
2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline huub

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2021, 06:52:19 AM »
Personally i think the whole cafe racer thing is getting boring.
I like the sp for what it is,
I would do a 1000sp restomod, upgrading engine, modern suspension, brakes and wheels.
Get a nice exhaust system ,  and own a unique 1000SP instead of another cafe racer clone.

Online blackcat

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2021, 07:21:08 AM »
Turin,

Yes, very nice bike. Where did you source that front fender?
USA

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Offline Turin

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2021, 11:09:05 AM »
It's a generic aluminum fender I found browsing years ago, don't remember where. probably E-bay. The rear fender is from a laverda I bought from Wolfgang Haerter and cut down to fit. The bikini fairing is an second hand bit also from E-bay (The bodywork was trashed when I bought this T and the seat pan crumbled to rusty dust. no good parts were discarded in the building of this bike).


2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline Matteo

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2021, 11:29:13 AM »
My 2 cents; the cafe thing has been done to death. Kudos for wanting to hop up the motor and not building another sheep in wolves clothing. I went the easy route with my 850T and am pretty happy with the results. (tank and seat were rusted through when I bought her as a project in 2004. back then the repop tanks were about half the price they are now. seat came from Cosmopolitan Motors)

Upgrades:
Megacycle X9 cam from E-bay
Delorto 36 carbs
Lemans flywheel - mildly lightened - came with my parts stash
ported heads with stock sized stainless valves from ferracci.
Gilardoni cylinder kit. Copper head and base gaskets made to set the squish at 40 thousandths and bump compression up.
Mistral exhaust with bub mufflers
EBC rotors with 4 piston calipers on stock master cylinder
Fac Dampners with wirth springs and longer Ikon Dial a ride shocks for a lemans 1000.













A real Beauty!
77 Lemans
80 CX100
84 V65
00 Jackal
07 Norge
16 V7II
21 V85TT Centenario

Offline Rough Edge racing

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2021, 11:31:55 AM »
Try for a tight squish band around the piston circumference with .035  clearance. you may need to reduce cylinder height..It's worth the work and will lower octane requirements by a faster burn and less overall timing, sharper throttle response and better fuel mileage. I have experience doing this on hemi head Triumphs and wedge head auto engines...

89 Honda 650 NT , 79 Triumph 750,61 BSA A10, 650 Triumph land speed racer , dual 650 Triumph engine land speed racer.
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Think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly"

Offline Turin

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2021, 02:26:50 PM »
Mike Rich recommends setting the squish at .040 -.045 , I went to .040
2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Online Michael Moore

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2021, 03:02:07 PM »
What I've seen for decades is 1mm/ .040" as the top end for the squish being effective.  The chosen squish dimension will also depend on the intended RPM and the condition of the crankshaft components as a flexy crank and stretchy rods will need more clearance so things don't crash.     With Carrillo rods and a reasonable red line on the street a few more thou can probably be taken out.  The turbulence from squish and velocity of the moving mixture will vary with the size of the squish band; if there's a lot of area around the edge of the bore (as on a 1L Guzzi) with what are nominally 850cc chambers in the heads) then there's a lot of mixture that needs to be forced out of that area, and I suspect that a slightly wider clearance will probably work OK.  Do make sure that at worst the head and matching piston surfaces are parallel, and better is probably to have them slightly divergent, opening up towards the center of the bore.  You don't want them tapered in the wrong direction so that gases are trapped at the edge of the combustion chamber.  You want to encourage the gases to move to the center of the bore and away from the edges.

Online Scout63

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2021, 07:48:19 AM »
My 2 cents; the cafe thing has been done to death. Kudos for wanting to hop up the motor and not building another sheep in wolves clothing. I went the easy route with my 850T and am pretty happy with the results. (tank and seat were rusted through when I bought her as a project in 2004. back then the repop tanks were about half the price they are now. seat came from Cosmopolitan Motors)

Upgrades:
Megacycle X9 cam from E-bay
Delorto 36 carbs
Lemans flywheel - mildly lightened - came with my parts stash
ported heads with stock sized stainless valves from ferracci.
Gilardoni cylinder kit. Copper head and base gaskets made to set the squish at 40 thousandths and bump compression up.
Mistral exhaust with bub mufflers
EBC rotors with 4 piston calipers on stock master cylinder
Fac Dampners with wirth springs and longer Ikon Dial a ride shocks for a lemans 1000.












Thatís a great looking bike and pretty close to what I want.  I like the SP look but already have my G5/T3 with stock engine and floorboards for cruising.  Maybe move towards a sporty standard like yours.  The Bub pipes look great also.  This whole project may be a little silly since I donít really ride very fast, and two full build v1000s in the garage next to each other isnít the best use of my time and money. I am a little lost in this discussion about squish bands but will get up to speed.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - next up to unload
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - T3FB mild custom
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000SP
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Online Scout63

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2021, 04:49:36 PM »
Ok Turin.  Your bike is so pretty that it changed my thoughts.  I just found a Bub exhaust on eBay and now want to blatantly copy your build.
Ben Zehnder
Orleans, MA USA
1971 BMW R75/5
1972 Norton Commando Combat Interstate
1977 BMW R100S - next up to unload
1978 Yamaha SR500
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000G5 - T3FB mild custom
1979 Moto Guzzi V1000SP
1980 Moto Guzzi v50ii

Offline Turin

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Re: New build thoughts
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2021, 12:18:51 AM »
I started by trying to blatantly copy George Dockrays 850T, so go for it! Budget constraints de-railed things and this is where I ended up. The Omars fairing was a second hand E-bay score, as was the seat and seat foam.

George Dockrays T-
https://www.bike-urious.com/1975-moto-guzzi-850t-custom/
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 12:22:48 AM by Turin »
2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

 

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