Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Paultergeist on February 05, 2021, 11:24:09 PM
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Greetings,
My V85 TT is coming up on the mileage at which the very first service is recommended. Although I plan to eventually learn to do some of this myself, I am probably not ready just yet, and i was planning on letting the dealership handle this first service. Their recommendations:
Engine oil and filter change.
Gearbox oil change.
Rear differential oil change.
Valve adjustment.
Double-check torque on cylinder head bolts.
Price for all of the above was quoted as $500-600 dollars (USD). (Location is Southern California if that matters).
I like the dealership, and I want to support their business, but I also confess that the quoted price took me back a bit, as it seems considerably higher than I had expected. I would be curious if anyone else has a comparative price for this sort of service, so I can gain some perspective...? Thanks.
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$500 for a first service is the general ballpark, at least for these new shaft drive bikes. Add in your location, and I can understand the higher amount as well. But, honestly, outside of the valve clearance check, you can easily do the rest yourself. Save yourself a couple hundred.
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Begs the question , how much is 3 or so hours worth at their shop ?
And the price of the oils and filter they use ? That's what they charge
here in the Vancouver area of B.C . And yes , it's kinda out of touch with
what you get for the money . Real Estate makes everything here ludicrous !
Nothing to do with mechanics wages or shop expenses . Peter
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When my V7III came up for first service the guys on here convinced me I should do it myself so I approached the dealership and bought a kit containing all the parts and fluids they normally use.
The service manager was quite ok with that and just told me to make a record of what I did.
The only tricky part was the gearbox, you have to measure the oil volume as there is no way of measuring the level.
Apart from the engine oil and filter I had enough supplies to do several oil changes and now I have a list of consumables.
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Paul,
I understand feeling "not quite ready" as I have been there myself. Pledge to be a repeat customer as often as possible (you're gonna need tires) promise to bring the bike in clean as a pin, and ask if they'll do it for $450. It can't hurt.
Sarah
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Q:Have you torqued cylinder heads before?
A: No
:popcorn:
That never stopped me, but I’ve been plain lucky not to destroy anything.
Did get the tdc wrong once when adjusting the valves. That made a funny noise...
If all else fails read directions?
Got a biker buddy to help?
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No Guzzi riders in your area that do or can help with a tech day and your service? Dealers are a rip in your wallet. :thumb:
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No Guzzi riders in your area that do or can help with a tech day and your service? Dealers are a rip in your wallet. :thumb:
Dealers don't rip into your wallet as you have the choice to support them or not. I find the 600 service thing to be very interesting in these days of modern manufacture. This 600 service interval is almost universal between every manufacturer. A lot of automobiles that roll off the assembly line don't get a 1st service until 10,000 miles and its only an oil/filter change. Not sure why modern motorcycles still need to have a 600 miles service like they did 40 years ago. Is it possible that its more of a fluff fee like dealer prep and really not necessary anymore but its kept as a way to for dealers to make a little extra money?
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I always let the dealer do the first service and have gotten it thrown in with each new bike I have bought including the V85TT. I want them to perform all of those checks that are required. If there is a problem, I want them to jump on it before it devolves into a worse problem and then I have a problem getting warranty work. Since they have seen hundreds or thousands and know what they are looking at, I want that. I would pay the $500-$600 for that if I had to. I then do the rest myself, except if a service involves the in-tank fuel filter, will probably let the dealer do that part of it. Or, if the ABS is as big a pain in the ass as it was on my beemers, will let them do that as well. That is just me.
But, unless the OP has a mentor, he should let the dealer do the first service, in my opinion.
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Since they have seen hundreds or thousands and know what they are looking at, I want that. I would pay the $500-$600 for that if I had to.
It's just as likely the guy handed the routine first service has seen about 5 of them, is being paid flat-rate which means he makes more the faster he can do it (because he can get onto another job quicker), and that he won't see anything that could "devolve into a problem."
At some point you have to ask yourself if you trusted the dealer to prep the bike properly or not. If they did, what would they miss. If they didn't, why would they find something now?*
Break-in services are the vestigial tail of the powersports industry. They are there for dealer profit combined with a CYA for the OEM. In comparison our new $75k Defender's first service is still 18 months away.
*Note: I'll answer my own question there. The OEM cya is if a dealer actually finds something that has started to come undone on the first few hundred miles. Rare, but in theory possible if something was put together wrong or is defective. The cya is that perhaps a dealer tech would spot a potential developing safety issue at that point. It's a widely cast net that very rarely brings in a single fish.
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That isn't about what I was quoted.
Look at the manual and see what is actually suggested for the first service, I think there are some extra items on the list you gave.
Part of the service would also be to shut off the service reminder, that's worth $60 locally.
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It's just as likely the guy handed the routine first service has seen about 5 of them, is being paid flat-rate which means he makes more the faster he can do it (because he can get onto another job quicker), and that he won't see anything that could "devolve into a problem."
At some point you have to ask yourself if you trusted the dealer to prep the bike properly or not. If they did, what would they miss. If they didn't, why would they find something now?*
Break-in services are the vestigial tail of the powersports industry. They are there for dealer profit combined with a CYA for the OEM. In comparison our new $75k Defender's first service is still 18 months away.
*Note: I'll answer my own question there. The OEM cya is if a dealer actually finds something that has started to come undone on the first few hundred miles. Rare, but in theory possible if something was put together wrong or is defective. The cya is that perhaps a dealer tech would spot a potential developing safety issue at that point. It's a widely cast net that very rarely brings in a single fish.
It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall in most shops to see if and what they actually do on the 1st service. I'm betting a lot of the time you aren't getting what you think you should.
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Double-check torque on cylinder head bolts. Right off the bat, that statement says whoever quoted you DKS! That procedure finally went away for the 2017 + small blocks. two hours max if they actually check other fasteners and change all fluids even if not called for.
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On top of items you mentioned as part of the first service, I would add the following checks;
-Clutch operation
- steering head bearing for free play
- swingarm pivot for free play
- brake operation/ fluid levels
- All lights and directionals
- ECU checked for stored faults
- general check of fasteners
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It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall in most shops to see if and what they actually do on the 1st service. I'm betting a lot of the time you aren't getting what you think you should.
Many shops around here would let you watch. The one I bought the most bikes from even let me help uncrate my new bikes and watch them come to life.
That said, I always read the service manual and only let them do the first service while I watched. Caught the tech spin the rear wheel after putting some new oil in the shaft drive and told him that now we have to wait until the oil settles before adding more at the risk of overfilling. When he scoffed at my statement,, I referred him to the page in the service manual that stated not to move the wheel.
These days you get what you inspect, not what you expect.
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It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall in most shops to see if and what they actually do on the 1st service. I'm betting a lot of the time you aren't getting what you think you should.
Judging from decades of involvement in the industry I absolutely agree.
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From the manual, the items for the first service are:
Inspect steering bearings and clearance.
Diagnosis by tool, I'm sure this is PADS or whatever is being used now.
Inspect brake pads and discs for wear.
Replace engine oil filter and oil.
Inspect general vehicle operation.
Adjust valve clearance.
Inspect braking system, lights, safety switches, brake fluid, tire pressure/wear, and loose nuts/bolts.
Adjust the clutch clearance.
On my previous post my iPad autocorrected me to say that isn't about what I was quoted when I meant to say that it was about what I was quoted. As you can see from the list, most of the stuff that's scheduled for the first service is just inspection. I elected to change the oil/filter myself, gave the bike a good once-over, and adjusted the valves. I don't have a diagnosis tool to turn off the maintenance reminder or do anything with the computer but the bike was running fine. I eventually took the bike in to have the maintenance reminder reset because it drove me nuts.
Final drive and transmission fluids are not on the schedule until the 18k mile service, although I'll probably change mine at the 6k mark. I already bought a liter of the stuff so I'm set to go.
For my first service I was probably in for $30 by doing it myself; $15 for the filter and then 2 quarts of oil. Everything else was just getting familiar with the bike. I simply could not afford $600 so I was motivated to do it myself, granted I've adjusted the valves on a big block Guzzi before so the process was somewhat familiar but there are plenty of videos and other resources out there to help you out if you're so inclined.
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Vag makes a great point, head torque is a thing of the past even on Guzzis.
On top of items you mentioned as part of the first service, I would add the following checks;
-Clutch operation
- steering head bearing for free play
- swingarm pivot for free play
- brake operation/ fluid levels
- All lights and directionals
- ECU checked for stored faults
- general check of fasteners
That whole list is maybe 15 minutes.
Support bike and check swingarm for play, rotate bars and check steering head for binding, grab wheels and check for okaygrab brakes and push on front end to check bearings for play, test ride, maybe MAYBE use scan tool to check for codes but no light = unlikely anything stored that would matter. Actually checking for an ecu update world be more relevant.
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I remember when you bought a new motorcycle the first and maybe second service calls where free. The dealers you bought it from treated you as a valued customer and your bike was special and warranty service calls went to the front of the line. Now it is like going to the grocery store and buying a can of peas, what brand should you buy
And how big a can.
Now you have to make an appointment get in line to pay for 30-50 dollars worth of shop supply’s and a good look over. Shows you how long it has been since I bought a new bike, at least 40 years.
A motorcycle dealer in Iowa ( name I won’t mention ) dropped Guzzi after the Piaggio buy out, commented that he would sell a customer a Moto Guzzi and they would never come back.
Be glad it is a Moto Guzzi and not a BMW
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Different bike, but closely related, my v9 says change out trans fluid and motor oil/filter at 900 miles, nothing about the rear end until 18,000 miles.
Like said above, no need to re-torque heads, (changed gasket material a few years ago, ended the needed)
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I remember when you bought a new motorcycle the first and maybe second service calls where free. The dealers you bought it from treated you as a valued customer and your bike was special and warranty service calls went to the front of the line. Now it is like going to the grocery store and buying a can of peas, what brand should you buy
And how big a can.
Now you have to make an appointment get in line to pay for 30-50 dollars worth of shop supply’s and a good look over. Shows you how long it has been since I bought a new bike, at least 40 years.
A motorcycle dealer in Iowa ( name I won’t mention ) dropped Guzzi after the Piaggio buy out, commented that he would sell a customer a Moto Guzzi and they would never come back.
Indeed, I couldn't tell you how many times I have heard guys brag about NEVER having to take their bike to a Guzzi shop!
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I would conclude that if one has no mechanical abilities what so ever they would need to return their bike to the dealer for the first service, even though the majority of the items that are suppose to be done are even necessary.
I don’t know an individual dealers ethics on actually doing all the procedures on the list. However stings have been preformed on places like the quick lube business where a 16 point service check, this number varies, and it turns out that the only service provided was oil and filter changed and windshield fluid topped off. However the customer would be informed that their wipers needed replacement for a reduced fee, of course🤔
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From the manual, the items for the first service are:
Inspect steering bearings and clearance.
Diagnosis by tool, I'm sure this is PADS or whatever is being used now.
Inspect brake pads and discs for wear.
Replace engine oil filter and oil.
Inspect general vehicle operation.
Adjust valve clearance.
Inspect braking system, lights, safety switches, brake fluid, tire pressure/wear, and loose nuts/bolts.
Adjust the clutch clearance.
On my previous post my iPad autocorrected me to say that isn't about what I was quoted when I meant to say that it was about what I was quoted. As you can see from the list, most of the stuff that's scheduled for the first service is just inspection. I elected to change the oil/filter myself, gave the bike a good once-over, and adjusted the valves. I don't have a diagnosis tool to turn off the maintenance reminder or do anything with the computer but the bike was running fine. I eventually took the bike in to have the maintenance reminder reset because it drove me nuts.
Final drive and transmission fluids are not on the schedule until the 18k mile service, although I'll probably change mine at the 6k mark. I already bought a liter of the stuff so I'm set to go.
For my first service I was probably in for $30 by doing it myself; $15 for the filter and then 2 quarts of oil. Everything else was just getting familiar with the bike. I simply could not afford $600 so I was motivated to do it myself, granted I've adjusted the valves on a big block Guzzi before so the process was somewhat familiar but there are plenty of videos and other resources out there to help you out if you're so inclined.
This is what I did. When did the manual change to recommend replacing transmission and bevel box oil at that low of a mileage, as stated by the OP? Does not make sense, or else the dealer recommending it does not bother to read the manual?? Hmmm.
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Screenshots of the maintenance schedule taken from the V85TT owners manual included for reference:
(https://i.ibb.co/59yj25D/10-D1-C837-1409-44-F7-96-C6-59-A558-C94-E4-D.png) (https://ibb.co/59yj25D)
(https://i.ibb.co/zHChsjL/FD1-F0523-61-C5-4363-8477-03868054338-D.png) (https://ibb.co/zHChsjL)
(https://i.ibb.co/b1QRscY/CE9-A6-A0-F-E7-D5-4-E67-B8-B2-2-E8-D43173-CEC.png) (https://ibb.co/b1QRscY)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bn70KKP/5-D8259-AE-AF29-491-F-9-E3-F-A16-B75-DB42-D1.png) (https://ibb.co/Bn70KKP)
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I normally let my dealer do the first service on all my bikes. I figure if it has a manufacturing defect it should show up in the first 1000 miles. Just takes one argument off the table if the bike has a major problem.
For my V85TT and V7 III the first service cost was ~$300. My dealer changed all the fluids during the first service on both bikes. It also included the value clearance check. My dealer is located in Tennessee for reference.
I think the cost is more based on the labor rate in your area and the amount of time they allow for each task.
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In 1989 I bought a new Harly dresser from a dealer 200 miles away. he was the only guy with the color I wanted in stock. Seemed like a great shop so I took it in for I think it was a 3000 or 5000-mile check-up. Unfortunately, I had to replace the rear tire 500 miles later due to hitting something so I took it to the closest dealer about 45 miles away. He called me back to the shop right away saying "I don't know or care who did the last service, but the drive belt is so tight it would have destroyed the output shaft bearing in no time and the primary chain has 1/2 the free play it should". And that ends my let the dealer do it lesson for today! I do it all myself now. At least I know who f'd it up.
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I got a quote from OC Motorcycle (where I bought the 2019 V7 III) last December and it was around $450 for the first service and includes those items listed on the owner's manual. I then checked Pro Italia and their price is about the same.
I would most likely use OC Motorcycle and check with them and see if I can get some sort of discount since I bought the bike from them. The only issue is that they are around 36 miles away and to check valve clearance the bike needs to be cool. I am not going to wait in their shop for 6 hours, so I am planning on doing the valve clearance myself and let them do the rest.
I don't mind paying them for the service, as long as they actually do what the book says and do them right. When I go there, I would just casually mentioned that my past experience with the motorcycle dealer service was that they only did oil and filter change and nothing else, but charged me for everything. After I get the bike back, I would check if they actually tighten the clutch and throttle cables, lube the levers, correct oil level, and tire pressure. If any of these does not satisfy me, I will let the owner know and not going back to them again.
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If you are in Lemon Grove GP would do the work. However, most of that stuff is easy. Except perhaps the head bolts. I don't know if that is even necessary on the newer motors. For measuring out the trans oil and final drive oil get yourself an accurate beaker set up for milliliters and measure out the appropriate amount after draining completely. Put plug back in and refill. Or you can fill to the lower bolt hole but I prefer to do it with the beaker as I don't have to prop the bike up and can leave on the side stand. With the oil sump, warm up the motor (as with the trans and drive by riding it) and the drain is usually a 17mm bolt under the crankcase. Drain oil from crankcase and remove filter, put new one in and put in plug bolt and refill using the dipstick hole. Next, pull valve covers and alternator cover and find crankcase nut (usually 24-27mm). Remove spark plugs and rotate motor counter-clockwise if looking towards motor from front of bike. Stick a small 12" dowel into spark plug hole and watch the lifters go up and down until both valves are closed. Then just jiggle the rockers and if they are somewhat loose check valve clearance. Now if you have to do the head bolts, you probably have to remove the rockers. There will be a cross patch tightening sequence so adhere to that. As for the steering bearings I seriously doubt anything would be wrong with them unless they completely forgot to add grease which is not unknown from Guzzi. Simply lift the front wheel off the ground and rotate handlebars. If there is a problem you will realize it. When you have the rear tire changed, make sure that the splines are greased with a non-flinging moly grease. Many times they won't do this at a dealership but it is essential. And most of all check all bolts for tightness or that they have not moved from their paint markings. And most of all use a high quality oil preferably synthetic. Amazingly, I am doing this work as I write this!
(https://i.ibb.co/6NSsrcy/EV-spline-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6NSsrcy)
(https://i.ibb.co/XJGMrGw/moly-spline-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XJGMrGw)
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I got a quote from OC Motorcycle (where I bought the 2019 V7 III) last December and it was around $450 for the first service and includes those items listed on the owner's manual. I then checked Pro Italia and their price is about the same.
I would most likely use OC Motorcycle and check with them and see if I can get some sort of discount since I bought the bike from them. The only issue is that they are around 36 miles away and to check valve clearance the bike needs to be cool. I am not going to wait in their shop for 6 hours, so I am planning on doing the valve clearance myself and let them do the rest.
I don't mind paying them for the service, as long as they actually do what the book says and do them right. When I go there, I would just casually mentioned that my past experience with the motorcycle dealer service was that they only did oil and filter change and nothing else, but charged me for everything. After I get the bike back, I would check if they actually tighten the clutch and throttle cables, lube the levers, correct oil level, and tire pressure. If any of these does not satisfy me, I will let the owner know and not going back to them again.
If you really want to know if they are doing everything loosen something out of tolerance, like the clutch or speedo cable. Loosen a turn signal bulb or connector. Then inspect those items after asking them if everything was in spec.
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However, most of that stuff is easy. Except perhaps the head bolts.
Next, pull valve covers and alternator cover and find crankcase nut (usually 24-27mm).
Remove spark plugs and rotate motor counter-clockwise if looking towards motor from front of bike.
Now if you have to do the head bolts, you probably have to remove the rockers.
A couple of nit picks.
The 2016 Heron head smallblock V7II was the last Guzzi to need a head retorque. The big blocks hadn't needed it for more than a decade before that.
You didn't need to remove the rocker arms on a Heron head smallblock to do so though. And there was nothing difficult about it.
And jeez, counter-clockwise?!? On what motor?
Doesn't matter, the smallblocks since about 2015 have all had wet alternators, you don't want to try and remove that cover to spin the motor.
But jeez I thought all the Guzzis I've had turned clockwise when viewed from the front? Am I remembering something wrong?
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I bought my V7lll last summer. The dealer insisted that I pay for the first service at that time. They said the warranty would be void if I didn't but I knew that was BS. I wasn't going to but decided WTH if something breaks at some point I wouldn't have to fight with them to get it fixed. When I took it in just short of 1,000 miles the service writer said it was supposed to have been in at 500 miles. I told her you better look it up as the recommended first service is 940 miles or something close to that. She didn't know. Anyway I was given a Zero for the day. I talked to the tech later, he apologized for it taking so long but he needed it to cool down to adjust the valves. He also said that he bent the side stand to make the tang more accessible as it was tucked under muffler. It will probably never be back as I do my own work unless it is something I can't do myself. I am not real thrilled with this dealership anyway but I like the tech.
An interesting story with my former Harley which I also bought new. I took it in for its first FREE service at 500 miles. I had replaced the mufflers with some slightly reworked originals for a little sound. The stock bike sounded more like a sewing machine than a motorcycle. Before I took it in I put the stock mufflers back on so I wouldn't void the warranty or anything. There were two bolts that held each one on. On the right side one of them is very hard to get to so I left it out as it would only be few miles before I changed the mufflers back. When I took the stockers back off I found the missing bolt had been replaced. It was hard to see let alone get to, so I was amazed and pleased at the quality of the service. Although I took the bike in at one point after the dealership had changed hands to have them check the balance on the rear wheel. They did the front instead. I never went back. I traded it for my Guzzi anyway.
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If you are in Lemon Grove GP would do the work. However, most of that stuff is easy....... Amazingly, I am doing this work as I write this!
The NEXT time you do all this, please let me watch! I'll even pay for pizza!
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Kev, as far as I know the motor revs counterclockwise if looking at the bike from the front wheel back towards the rear and if seated it turns clockwise. However, there is another way that you can turn the motor. Put it on the center stand or any stand and lift the rear wheel and put in a higher gear and rotate the rear wheel with the spark plugs out. But you already know this, I was just pointing out some things to Paul. Sure Paul, I would be glad to help, but you might want to check your warranty as sometimes if you do the work it voids the warranty. I don't know if the warranty is 1 year or 2. That might be something to consider. I am here in Vista...
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I had the former MG dealer I bought my V7III from do the first service, with parts (oil filter) I bought. I was planning on doing all my own work on it anyway after that. Other than tires, will still use them for changes. Was still about $300 or something. Oil from grass fed synthetic manufacturers, perhaps. I still haven't made it to the next service interval, due to my current life situation. When I do I will really only need them or the new "official" dealer in my area to clear the wrench icon. It will annoy me to no end I am sure, so unless it is something like $100 to do just that, I will get them to do it while I am standing there. Probably a 2 second job. I'll even bring my cables.
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Paul -- I had GPM perform the 900 mile service on my 2019 V7 III.
Labor $330 (3 hours)
Parts $86.37
Misc $20
* The Parts cost is low because I disagree with GPM's lubricant choices and supply my own (Eni, Motul, Castrol)
* I had them change final drive lubricant even though it wasn't on MG's list
* The service writer tried to include head re-torquing but I told him it wasn't needed for the V7 III (or V85)
* Three hours is about twice what MG specifies in their service manual
* I arrived at 8am, stayed in the upstairs showroom, and left at 3pm
I asked what labor would be for 3,000 mile engine oil change, don't even check the tire pressure, and was told 2 hours.
I'll use GPM for lubricant changes and valve adjustments at MG service intervals but I'll do the rest myself because I can do it just as well with my choice of materials (eg, brake fluid).
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Kev, as far as I know the motor revs counterclockwise if looking at the bike from the front wheel back towards the rear and if seated it turns clockwise. However, there is another way that you can turn the motor. Put it on the center stand or any stand and lift the rear wheel and put in a higher gear and rotate the rear wheel with the spark plugs out. But you already know this, I was just pointing out some things to Paul. Sure Paul, I would be glad to help, but you might want to check your warranty as sometimes if you do the work it voids the warranty. I don't know if the warranty is 1 year or 2. That might be something to consider. I am here in Vista...
From what I am reading you have it backwards. When riding the bike down the street the motor is spinning counter clock wise. When I adjust my valves, I put a 26 mm socket on the crankshaft nut and turn it clockwise to turn the motor to the timing marks. It is said never turn it backwards but I have a few mm then foward again to get it dead on the timing mark with no problems.
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Just my $.02 on my last few new bike purchases I’ve had the $$$ for the first service rolled into the deal & scheduled the work . Usually within the first 2 weeks . I could do the job myself , with the exception of the factory diagnostic. I believe it’s called PADDS . I always want a printout of that just for my records . Another thing i the low mileage requirement is a good way for the factory to “start the warranty clock “ . I know ,date of purchase i the Kick off date , but the low XXX Mi. # is a good indicator of actual in service date . Just in case ya bought the bike & for whatever reason didn’t/couldn’t ride it . Illness, Divorce,Alien abduction etc.
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Gappy does your motor rock to the right when seated? Then one would assume that the motor turns clockwise when seated. Correct me if I am wrong. Almost all manuals that I have read, say to rotate the motor in the direction of travel but that doesn't quite make sense as the motor is reciprocating.
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My practice has always been to ride my new toy a little then change all the lubricating oils, check valve clearances and ride on. This is a couple of hours work and part of the bonding process with a new bike. All the rest of the first service stuff I do continuously, i.e. monitor cable adjustments and look the bike over for loose bits and pieces. I would be averse to risking the bike in dealer service for any of that stuff, assuming I had a place to work on it, and if I didn’t I’d want to be watching the guy work on the bike - my experience with dealer mechanics is that some are good, some are sloppy and unskilled, especially those assigned to routine scheduled services.
Torque reaction by the chassis is equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to crankshaft rotation.
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I really appreciate all the replies and insights provided.
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Notwithstanding all of the points made, 500-600 bucks for supplies and labor, if done correctly are at least in the ballpark. Shop charges what?-100 per for labor? So you have 200 min right there-maybe more.
As for what's really done-THERE'S the rub. I've been involved with two dealerships. At both the service sheet is pulled and every single item it attended to. I'm sure that is not the case everywhere but that's where knowing the shop and staff pay big dividends. While not universal, I'll support the guy(s) who I KNOW are straight up shooters-they gotta live, too. My ex Triumph guy was like that. he dropped them because corporate is completely bonkers (sound familiar?) but when my 1050 Tiger acted up right before a big getaway he took the bike on a SUNDAY to look it over. Turned out to be a bad fuel pump going south. He took one out of a floor bike to get me going as there were none available. Think I'm gonna haggle on price? That's the dealer/customer bond working perfect.
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Greetings,
My V85 TT is coming up on the mileage at which the very first service is recommended. Although I plan to eventually learn to do some of this myself, I am probably not ready just yet, and i was planning on letting the dealership handle this first service. Their recommendations:
Engine oil and filter change.
Gearbox oil change.
Rear differential oil change.
Valve adjustment.
Double-check torque on cylinder head bolts.
Price for all of the above was quoted as $500-600 dollars (USD). (Location is Southern California if that matters).
I like the dealership, and I want to support their business, but I also confess that the quoted price took me back a bit, as it seems considerably higher than I had expected. I would be curious if anyone else has a comparative price for this sort of service, so I can gain some perspective...? Thanks.
Mine was right around $400 in Michigan. I don't recall that they changed the oil in the diff, or the gearbox? I don't recall, I'd have to look at the paperwork, whatever the manual recomends and nothing more form what I remember. I was perfectly capable of doing it myself (aside from resetting the wrench icon) but wanted the dealer to do the first one in case of future warranty issues. Aside from warranty, I doubt they will ever see the bike again.
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Gappy does your motor rock to the right when seated? Then one would assume that the motor turns clockwise when seated. Correct me if I am wrong. Almost all manuals that I have read, say to rotate the motor in the direction of travel but that doesn't quite make sense as the motor is reciprocating.
Don't you put it in gear and rotate the back wheel in direction of travel while on a stand?
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Don't you put it in gear and rotate the back wheel in direction of travel while on a stand?
No I remove the altinator cover and put the bike in neutral and put a socket on the crank bolt and turn clockwise to the correct timing marks for the side I am adjusting
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Not on a small block. you turn the wheel.
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No I remove the altinator cover and put the bike in neutral and put a socket on the crank bolt and turn clockwise to the correct timing marks for the side I am adjusting
Modern small blocks like the V85 have a wet alternator on the end of the crank. DO NOT REMOVE THE COVER TO ROTATE THE ENGINE UNLESS YOU WANT OIL!!
Remove the spark plugs from both cylinders, click up to the highest gear, and rotate the rear wheel in a normal direction of travel.
Skippy
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Modern small blocks like the V85 have a wet alternator on the end of the crank. DO NOT REMOVE THE COVER TO ROTATE THE ENGINE UNLESS YOU WANT OIL!!
Remove the spark plugs from both cylinders, click up to the highest gear, and rotate the rear wheel in a normal direction of travel.
Skippy
Correct. Pretty sure the V7 II (my model) was the first to get the wet alternator.
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I remove the cover on my 2013 MkI Stone.
Again the 2015 last year of the MkI (1.5?) was the first to get the wet alternator in the US.
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My son and I did the first service in an afternoon in my garage. It's a V9, so I didn't have to worry about the rear differential.
(https://i.ibb.co/wYFQnds/WP-20191105-004-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wYFQnds)
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Nice project to do with the offspring!
It is worth emphasizing that warranty claims may be denied if the services are done outside of a shop and not cleared by them. Either I read that somewhere in the manual(s) or my local dealer advised that I wait until the warranty period was over before I did any of the more challenging checks (read: valve clearance et al) on my own.
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Nice project to do with the offspring!
It is worth emphasizing that warranty claims may be denied if the services are done outside of a shop and not cleared by them. Either I read that somewhere in the manual(s) or my local dealer advised that I wait until the warranty period was over before I did any of the more challenging checks (read: valve clearance et al) on my own.
No US warranty law is clear. An OEM cannot require the customer to use their dealer or parts for service unless they provide the service or parts for free.
A particular claim can only be denied if they can claim it was the result of improper service or sub quality parts.
In the industry it's generally accepted that keeping receipts for parts is demonstration enough to show the service was done. A particular claim could still be denied if say a part was overtightened and broken during the service or something like that. But the claim haa to be related. If a brake system is corroded/gummed up by the use of the wrong type of fluid they can't say deny a claim on an ECU fault or engine mechanical failure etc.
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old thread but. 2021 V85TT 900km service cost $383 plus tax here in New Jersey at the local Indian/Guzzi/Vespa dealer. They did an ECU firmware update while in there. Perfectly happy to let the dealer do the first one. Warranty is 2 years they told me so you ride it we maintain it. I will give it some more time and consider the other fluids if I don't get the miles on it. HAve fun guys SUmmer is here!
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The deciding factor for me was the dealer likes you to drop off the bike the night before so it's stone cold when they check the tappets.
It's a $50 taxi ride to get home from there. I spent the $50 on consumables at the dealership.
The only tricky part is measuring the oil quantity to go into the gearbox.
BTW, when draining any of the oils out leave the filler plug in until you have the drain plug out, much less mess that way.
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Make sure you can get the fill plug loose first, nothing worse than draining fluids only to find out that the fill plug won't come out :violent1:
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WhenI got my first Guzzi in78 I got a copy of Tips For Guzzis.I was amazed by all the ideas folks employed to save a few bucks.There were lots of dealers then,not many now.In my business I really disliked prospective clients that tried to chisel me on what I quoted for their problem and was never sorry to show them the door.If ,as you say,you like and want to keep your dealer in business,pay the man,preferably in cash.You will be fondly remembered when you really need something from them.Besides,what does an average car repair cost these days in your area.
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Remove spark plugs and rotate motor counter-clockwise if looking towards motor from front of bike.
Are you sure that’s the correct direction ?
It’s clockwise on the big block
(https://i.ibb.co/FqSnCYz/A12437-D2-74-BE-42-A3-A184-8443-BAC08720.png) (https://ibb.co/FqSnCYz)
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I had my first service done in the barn at last year's national rally by the Hamlin Cycle team (where I bought the bike). The charged $600 but went front to back checking everything including the ECU. They also changed the trans and gearbox oil even though it's not called for in the 1st service. It took them close to 3 hours and overall, I think it was well worth the price.
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If you are lucky enough to find a dealer that really will do it right front to back like Hamlin it will be three hours and parts.
That's why I do them myself.
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I think is one of the best thing you can do ,develop a relationship with the dealer it may be 450 it may be 650 but is probably well worth it .Lets say there is and engine failure moto guzzi is going to want to know if the oil was change and was the proper oil used also mid july you have a trip plan and you 6 month old bike is not working properly I'm sure you can spot by dealer and they would try to help you in some way.
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My first service on the V7III cost about $300 at Powersports Outlet here in Prescott. Although I'll do my next routine service at home I try to maintain a relationship with the dealer by purchasing oil, filters, and various parts from them rather than online sources.
My decision to buy a Guzzi was greatly influenced by having a respected dealer close to home. After a very disappointing experience with a new Royal Enfield 650 and the disinterested "MC Superstore" dealer/service here in Arizona I value the security blanket of a small, local, established shop.
Also......it doesn't hurt that the dealer has two friendly dogs hanging out in the showroom. :cool:
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Are you sure that’s the correct direction ?
It’s clockwise on the big block
(https://i.ibb.co/FqSnCYz/A12437-D2-74-BE-42-A3-A184-8443-BAC08720.png) (https://ibb.co/FqSnCYz)
I didn't feel like arguing that one last year, and I don't get around to smallblock valve checks very often since I spread my miles out over the years. But I'm about 99% certain that, viewed from the front of the bike, the smallbock engine rotates CLOCKWISE while running.
I made marks on the front engine face and the crankshaft nut and use that to turn my Mk I motor when setting valves (always have, just like on my big block Breva 1100 and Jackal 1100 before it).
Even though I've marked the crank, I still have to watch the valves to make sure I'm on TDC of compression and not intake, and I've always watch them open and close in the correct order - meaning Exhaust closes and as it is closing the Intake opens.
If I was turning the crankshaft and therefore valve train backwards, would that not be reversed?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMETeTblQfI
See about the 10 - 12 minute marks.
Anyway, thought I'd mention it this time.
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I think is one of the best thing you can do ,develop a relationship with the dealer it may be 450 it may be 650 but is probably well worth it.
I once felt this way.
I went out of my way to use two different Guzzi dealers to purchase new bikes (AND PAY MORE FOR THEM BECAUSE OF IT, at least one of them SIGNIFICANTLY).
BOTH ARE OUT OF BUSINESS NOW
The latter of the two (that I bought TWO NEW BIKES FROM) also let me down when I DID need him.
Nope, I'm out.
I've now bought other bikes at such a discount that if I have to THROW ONE AWAY SOMEDAY I will break even or be better off not having wasted my money with another one.
I'd LOVE to have a dealer I can trust (somewhere in the same or at least an adjacent state).
I don't.
It's not up to me to try and make that happen anymore.
YMMV
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Gappy does your motor rock to the right when seated? Then one would assume that the motor turns clockwise when seated. Correct me if I am wrong. Almost all manuals that I have read, say to rotate the motor in the direction of travel but that doesn't quite make sense as the motor is reciprocating.
If the motor rocks to the right under increasing revs, (which it does), then the motor is spinning anticlockwise when viewed from the rider’s seat….
The torque effect you feel, is equal and opposite.
Remember that the torque reaction, is the engine block trying to spin around the heavy crankshaft that does not want to accelerate due to it’s inertia.
The same effect as an electric drill that binds when drilling a hole, if the chuck is spinning clockwise when viewed from the operators perspective, the drill body will try to spin anticlockwise when the drill (in the chuck), meets a resistance.
It’s also the primary reason a helicopter needs a tail rotor.
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Lots of good 👍 info here for a new MG owner. I'm on Long Island outside of NYC, where there are 2 MG dealers, along with 25 mph speed limits and incredible traffic jams. I bought my Guardia from a dealer in PA, a 2 plus hours commute, if I leave early.
So decisions, decisions!
With the help of this discussion, I'll probably wind up doing it all myself. I do have a great independent shop locally that will take care of anything I'm not sure about.
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I normally let my dealer do the first service on all my bikes. I figure if it has a manufacturing defect it should show up in the first 1000 miles. Just takes one argument off the table if the bike has a major problem.
That's the main reason I always let a dealer do the first service. If something fails within the warranty period,
they're not gonna be able to weasel out of things by saying that the first service was improper.
That said, there are good dealers and bad dealers. I won't use one of the dealers in my area for service anymore
because I discovered they have charged me for things that they didn't do. There's a GREAT independent repair
shop about 30 minutes in the other direction, but he's almost always booked solid. He's honest and competitively
priced.
I bought a Toyota Tundra a few years ago, and had some tire wear on the outside edges of the front tires. I got
it aligned at an independent shop, and sure enough the toe-in was WAY out. Apparently, that's one of the things
that is supposed to be checked pre-delivery at the dealer. It virtually never is, because that would take actual time and effort
to check! Just one example of the many shortcuts dealers take all the time.
If you take your bike with a shim-under-bucket valve adjustment setup in to have them checked, and you're
not given the details of how many were adjusted and why, you can bet your last dollar that they didn't adjust anything -
and maybe didn't even check. Easy profit for the dealer.
OTOH, a dealer that charges you a fair price for your initial checkup and actually does it, is a dealer that you really oughta patronize.
-Stretch