The ultimate BIN for One Lambda CARCs - Interested?

[Meinolf]

Hi,

some may have seen the report about the ongoing project to explore the 5AM BIN used in Norge 1200 2V and similar CARC models (1200 Sport, Griso, Breva): http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=93758.0

Thanks to the tremendous work done by John Th. and Beard the exploration proceeded very well, simultaneously I continued data logging my Norge 1200 2V and analyzing the data. The result is a BIN which I'm quite happy with, and as in the past with the BINs for 15M equipped V11 and Jackal, am willing to share.

The changes vs. the original BIN are in main&delta fuel table, idle fuel table, ignition table, air p/T trim table and idle rpm. The AFR of both cylinders is sync'ed at most break points reachable while road logging.

The only condition is that those who try it report their feedback in this thread. If you are interested, send me a PM with your email address.

Cheers
Meinolf

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Sure, I'll bite... what is a BIN? 

[rdbandkab]

Allow me..

If I'm not mistaken, ".BIN" files are the files that can be loaded into your ECU via software such as GD.   Mapping files.

richy

[lucian]

I'd be happy to give it a spin however, my Griso is running a Termi exhaust with db killer installed. The Beetle map I'm currently running was
 optimized for that set up and preforms brilliantly with no popping on over run. Nonetheless I would be happy to install your and report my findings.  Cheers, Dave  PM sent

[exiledrebel]

I'd be interested in giving it a try. Mine has a cat delete and GPR muffler. I'm currently running a modded 1200 map on my 1100 Breva, which is definitely an improvement over stock, but still has a bit of popping on deceleration.

[Guzzi85]

Dear Meinolf, a couple of years later I found this post and I would be interested in trying your BIN for my Guzzi Breva 1100 2V which definitely need a mod map. I’ve just mounted an air Sprint Filter; everything else is original 

[antmanbee]

PM me with your email and I will send it to you. I am running it on my Griso 1100.
I had to do a correction in the speedometer correction table. It needs this because the Griso does not have the ABS brakes.

[drdwb]

I would like to try this. I believe I currently am running a modified Beatle map from around 2018, is this much different? And do I use Guzzi dia to load it?

[Meinolf]

Hi,

after this thread was recently revived by new posts, I've received many inquiries.

So here's the latest incarnation. Two BINs. One with closed loop turned off and one with closed loop turned on. I'm quite pleased with the Lambda on version, fuel consumption is down to 5.1l/100km and no discernable lack of power. But, decide for yourselves, uploading another BIN takes only 2 min.

A short readme.txt explains that the correction factor taking care of displaying the correct roadspeed on the dashboard needs changing if the BIN is used with Non-ABS models. This is easily done with Tunerpro.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UJioEuMQ3bVbNQsxCYuZw0bNdQE5maJs/view?usp=sharing

Cheers
Meinolf

[flycaster]

Hi, I would like to try your BIN file on my Norge 1200 2V completely stock. I’ve an annoying on/off effect in acceleration and deceleration that makes hairpin bends and roundabouts excruciating. Already cleaned throttle bodies, TPS reset and cilinder balanced with carbtune, but no improvements…
Which BIN file may I use to eliminate this inconvenience?
May there be controindicate?
Thank you.

[guzzisteve]

If you read his download page, make your pick O2 sensor ON or OFF
Either one will work your preference. Try them both.

[fotoguzzi]

I’ll save that in case I ever get my Norge to operate.
Too busy with a foster dog to work on it just now.
His name is Bill

[flycaster]

Hi, I'm trying to flash either the bin files, on and off lambda, the erasing procedure done with no errors, but with the writing procedure I've got errors with either the bin files... I tried 3 times, and got the error on 133698 blocks (30% of writing more or less)... but now the IAW 5x Writer V0.24 now is stuck on "connecting..." and don't do anythings... on the display of the Norge, I've the ECU plug symbol with red service led on... tried to switch on/off ignition, but no connection... obviusly, the Norge wont start and fuel pump no sounds...

[guzzisteve]

Did you have a batt charger on bike w/downloading or uploading? If batt gets too low you trash your ECU and you get unplug on dash cause it's dead in voltage. Most likely junk for an ECU.
Don't know how you work. BUT I was instructed from tech services of Piaggio that 1st you plug in bike batt before anything is to be done & keep on charger till finished.

It does not erase anything only copies it, it writes over whats in there w/you download the new one.
Edit:  You also get disconnect sign when ground is lost to ECU, it hangs off a ring connector by the ECU mount under steering head.

[GuzziOrDeath]

The 5AM is virtually unkillable.  What's your battery voltage? Adding to what Steve says, if the battery volts drops below ~9.5V, the ECU goes to sleep.

What operating system are you using?

[flycaster]

Thanks for the advices! The battery is 11,8v. I use a Windows 10 PRO 64 bit notebook. I think the problem was the unstable ground. The cable came with two tweezers, one for positive and the other for negative. I disconnected the negative from the battery and left only the positive. In this case, the interface led stay on... so I think it take ground from one of the pins.
In this way, I was finally able to upload the bin file (LAMBDA OFF) with no errors!!! 
The Norge miraculously resurrect!
I've tried the map... NO WORDS!!!
Another bike in engine delivery! Just more reactive already at 3000 rpm! WOW
The ON/OFF problem in acceleration and deceleration at high gear (3/4) and moderate speed (~40kmh) disappeared, but is slightly still present at low gear (1/2) and very low speed (~10/20kmh - hairpin bends and roundabouts).
May I give some more point (+10/+20) in CO TRIM with the lambda off? Or the lambda must be on for CO TRIM to take effect?
Thank you very much to everyone, especially to @Meinolf for his study on the maps!

[Meinolf]

Hi,

glad to hear that the BIN works well for you.

As to your comments. Prior to Guzzidiag and the means to download/upload the BINs there were only two factors to influence AFR (air/fuel mixture) in a limited and controllable way.

One is the bypass screw, which influences the air mass throughput in addition to what flows through the butterfly valve and the bodies. Each has it's own bypass screw.

The 2nd is CO trim, which is only active if closed loop is de-activated. CO trim acts on the injection time, eg fuel delivery.
These two are analoges to the idle mixture screw on a carb, only this either acts on air or fuel delivery.

In either case the influence of bypass or CO trim lessens as air flow increases, the portion of additional air or fuel delivery of the total gets smaller. In case of the C0 trim the code fades out the increased changed injection time by the time the rpm has reached 3000.

Now, in order to make the BIN more transportable I routinely do the tuning based on zero CO trim and with both bypass screws completely closed. Your 3/4 quarter turn is likely to be a bit different than mine.

I do assume that the basic setup and especially the synchronisation was done. The latter is totally essential. If so, the setting the CO trim to 0 and closing both bypass screws is what I recommend to try and resolve the remaining shortfalls.

If this doesn't work, buy lambda measuring and logging equipment and mount it on your bike :-)

Seruously, my attention was to improve the BIN based on measurable facts on and for my Norge 1200 2V. Which has a non-standard exhaust, hi-flow airfilter and Iridium sparks plugs. And ~80.000km on the clock. So, a blue-printing approach.

No other bike is likely to be as mine, so differences after the change to my BIN are to be expected. If the majority of the users find the BIN acceptable or to be an improvement, that's mostly because the OEM version was not that great.

PS And in addition the tuning was done satisfy my requirements. Rather lean mixtures in low load areas to improve fuel consumption and fuel shut-off in the lowest load areas. I made no attempt to go after max power (I have other bikes if it so craves me), smoothness and ridability were the highest priorities.

Cheers
Meinolf

[Bigtime]

 Question. I have Beetle's map in my 09 Norge now. It runs extremely well ( thank you, Mark!). Is there much difference in this map and Beetles?

[flycaster]

Hi,

glad to hear that the BIN works well for you.

As to your comments. Prior to Guzzidiag and the means to download/upload the BINs there were only two factors to influence AFR (air/fuel mixture) in a limited and controllable way.

One is the bypass screw, which influences the air mass throughput in addition to what flows through the butterfly valve and the bodies. Each has it's own bypass screw.

The 2nd is CO trim, which is only active if closed loop is de-activated. CO trim acts on the injection time, eg fuel delivery.
These two are analoges to the idle mixture screw on a carb, only this either acts on air or fuel delivery.

In either case the influence of bypass or CO trim lessens as air flow increases, the portion of additional air or fuel delivery of the total gets smaller. In case of the C0 trim the code fades out the increased changed injection time by the time the rpm has reached 3000.

Now, in order to make the BIN more transportable I routinely do the tuning based on zero CO trim and with both bypass screws completely closed. Your 3/4 quarter turn is likely to be a bit different than mine.

I do assume that the basic setup and especially the synchronisation was done. The latter is totally essential. If so, the setting the CO trim to 0 and closing both bypass screws is what I recommend to try and resolve the remaining shortfalls.

If this doesn't work, buy lambda measuring and logging equipment and mount it on your bike :-)

Seruously, my attention was to improve the BIN based on measurable facts on and for my Norge 1200 2V. Which has a non-standard exhaust, hi-flow airfilter and Iridium sparks plugs. And ~80.000km on the clock. So, a blue-printing approach.

No other bike is likely to be as mine, so differences after the change to my BIN are to be expected. If the majority of the users find the BIN acceptable or to be an improvement, that's mostly because the OEM version was not that great.

PS And in addition the tuning was done satisfy my requirements. Rather lean mixtures in low load areas to improve fuel consumption and fuel shut-off in the lowest load areas. I made no attempt to go after max power (I have other bikes if it so craves me), smoothness and ridability were the highest priorities.

Cheers
Meinolf

Hi @Meinolf, nice to "meet" you!
And thank you for your reply.
Sorry my poor english, I'm Italian.
Like I said before, first of any other try (first of upload your bin file too), I've already cleaned throttle bodies, cilinder balanced with carbtune (they were already correctly balanced) and TPS reset, both bypass screws completely closed (already was before), but no differences…
So, I decided to try your bin file with lambda off on my completly stock Norge 2010 2v.
I've noticed great improvements under every aspect and the ON/OFF almost completely gone.
Still a little bit present at very low speed, but not that irritating like before.
So I was thinking to add some point to CO TRIM in the hope to definitely remove the ON/OFF... but I don't know if is useless or not with lambda switched off. So if anybody has already experienced this way...
Thank you.

[Meinolf]

Hi,

Question. I have Beetle's map in my 09 Norge now. It runs extremely well ( thank you, Mark!). Is there much difference in this map and Beetles?

I don't have Mark's BIN.

Cheers
Meinolf

[Meinolf]

Hi,

As written in the previous post, CO trim only works if closed loop ops are turned off.

So, trying to remedy your woes using the CO trim is possible. If I were you I would just lightly increase fuel values in the left cylinder fuel map in the rpm/TPS area which worries you.

Cheers
Meinolf

[John A]

I’ll save that in case I ever get my Norge to operate.
Too busy with a foster dog to work on it just now.
His name is Bill

Looks like a Griffon, they come with a ball as standard equipment. This one has the dual option

[flycaster]

If I were you I would just lightly increase fuel values in the left cylinder fuel map in the rpm/TPS area which worries you.

I take a look to your map in tuner pro 3D view, and I noticed that you put this value to 0 from the first part of TPS aperture until 3000rpm.
This way, I aspected to have worsening intead of improvements like in reality it is!
How can be possible?
May I try to increase this values to attempt to abtain a little bit confortable low speed acceleration/deceleration to reach the perfection?
Thank you.