White grease under valve cover ?

[kirb]

KTM 990s with a bad water pump seal would do this under the clutch cover. My Stelvio rarely had it, but trips are rarely shorter than 10 miles.

Get it hot, run it hard. The mayo will go away once the water is boiled off and vented. Oil will need to make it's way into the covers, so make sure your runs have a few sweepers.

Not a concern. Change the oil if you feel like it and check every so often, but nothing to worry about. The BMWs don't have this as the valve covers are not the high point of the system.

[Kev m]

I wonder if heat alone is really enough to remove all the mayo though.

I do remember the surprise the first time I found it on the Jackal because I believe it was more like mid-summer. The breather hoses and the valve covers were still thick with it despite long hot runs.

Of course this could also just be another case of variables. The Jackal cooled well, the valve covers were removed enough from both engine heat and oil passages, not to mention the damn breathers vented into the FRAME.... so who knows.

Maybe some can reverse the emulsification and others can't?!?

Maybe it depends how much/thick it is too or where it is located?!?

[Tom H]

FWIW: Only my EV has this problem. Never have had it with my loops.

When I first got my EV, I discovered the mayo and posted here about it. From what I learned, the breather system on my EV was the main culprit. With the oil/air separating in the frame tube and the heat difference in the tube, it would cause condensation to build. Hence the mayo effect.

IMHO: If your getting mayo, check the valve covers regularly and clean them as well as the oil drain passages from the frame (at least on my EV, not sure how other models return the oil from the frame). If you have a removable oil pan (small blocks??), when removed you will find the mayo there as well.

Dino oil may help the issue, don't know, I have never tried it.

For whatever reason, I have not had as much of an issue with mayo in the past year or so. When I fist got the bike, I checked it about once a month and cleaned the covers. Lately it has been staying fairly clean, as in why am I still checking. My riding conditions had not changed, so why the difference? Maybe the weather?? Don't know but I'm glad it dosen't happen as often.

Tom

[twowheeladdict]

^^^

 All correct except for the part about it not being humid out here  At the moment we are at about 60% , on our way to 80% . I hate humidity 

 Dusty

Don't ever come to Tennessee then.   It doesn't take long for nature to reclaim what man has made. 

[Dilliw]

FWIW: Only my EV has this problem. Never have had it with my loops.

When I first got my EV, I discovered the mayo and posted here about it. From what I learned, the breather system on my EV was the main culprit. With the oil/air separating in the frame tube and the heat difference in the tube, it would cause condensation to build. Hence the mayo effect.

IMHO: If your getting mayo, check the valve covers regularly and clean them as well as the oil drain passages from the frame (at least on my EV, not sure how other models return the oil from the frame). If you have a removable oil pan (small blocks??), when removed you will find the mayo there as well.

Dino oil may help the issue, don't know, I have never tried it.

For whatever reason, I have not had as much of an issue with mayo in the past year or so. When I fist got the bike, I checked it about once a month and cleaned the covers. Lately it has been staying fairly clean, as in why am I still checking. My riding conditions had not changed, so why the difference?

Tom

I learned early on that you need to do the spring ride on the EV before you do your spring maintenance or otherwise you'd be shocked when you pulled the pan.  From my house near Charlotte , a lunch in Little Switzerland was the perfect place to leave a pile of puke under the bike!



But after a good

[LowRyter]

I always thought that a motorcycle engine should be redlined at least once every time a bike is taken on the road.  Don't know if anyone agrees with this -and remember- I am the least mechanically inclined member on the board- but that's how I ride.

Now I have a bike that I can't redline in first gear unless I am on the highway.   

[Ncdan]

I must be doing something right, for a change, as I have never experienced this Issue on any of the dozens of bikes I have owned and serviced. Just lucky I guess.

[oldbike54]

Don't ever come to Tennessee then.   It doesn't take long for nature to reclaim what man has made.

 Same here in Eastern Oklahoma , 50 inches of rain a year , punctuated every few years with 90 inches  Down in the Ouchita mountains where we have the Okie camp out , along the top of the 70 mile long ridge running East and West the average is like 80 inches . Friends from other areas are always surprised to see how much rain we get here , my own yard turns into a jungle in about a week after mowing .

 Dusty

[SmithSwede]

Funny.  Dusty and I were just talking about this.

I've read a fair bit about this topic, because the old 2-valve air-cooled Ducati bikes are notorious for making the mayo.  Which freaks everyone out and generates a lot of posts.   But everyone says, and I can confirm, that the emulsion burns away if you get the oil hot enough.  The water vapor is then expelled out of the breather tube.

I have never had this mayo thing happen on my 2013 V7 small block.  I think it normally runs hot, and of course does not have an oil cooler.  It also doesn't run much oil (1.5 quarts), which is one reason why I've never been to keen to get a sump spacer.

In contrast, my new-to-me 1996 Ducati 900SS has a big old oil cooler, and runs nearly 4 quarts of oil. 

I rode it from Dallas to Cedar Vale in ambient temperatures of 48 to 52 degrees, with rain or mist most of the way.  Arrived in Ponca City with so much mayo I couldn't see the oil level in the sight glass.   So I covered up the oil cooler with duct tape, and rode a hour the next day to Cedar Vale at highway speeds of 70-75.  Got to CV, no change in the mayo situation.   Hmmm.

I left CV and rode another 2 hours at 70 to 75 mph, still with oil cooler covered.  No change in mayo situation.  Hmmm.

So then I just got pissed off.  When I arrived at the essentially empty Indian Turnpike, I just flogged the bike for 2+ hours.  Constant 95 to 100 mph.  When I stopped for gas the next time, there was zero mayo, and everything was normal.  It was also warmer that afternoon, with temps in the low 70s.

I conclude that the Ducati 2V engine is extremely well cooled.  I suspect the oil cooler is not needed in normal riding, but only comes in handy for track use, or if you are in stop & go Houston traffic with outside temps of 105 degrees. 

I also suspect this may be more common in air cooled engines than people suppose.  You are only likely to see the mayo if you have an oil sight glass, or take a valve cover off.  If you just have a dipstick, how would you know?

[SmithSwede]

I meant to add that the chemistry of burning gasoline is pretty interesting.  For each gallon of gasoline burned in an engine, about one full gallon of water is produced.

Think about that the next time you are filling up your gas tank. All that gas you are pumping will soon be creating the same volume of water. 

Thus we are creating a LOT of water, so it's not surprising that some of this will get into the oil, unless conditions are hot enough to "burn" it off. 

[jacksonracingcomau]

Not sure about the V7 Engines, but the 1200 8V is badly over-cooled.
If you fit an Oil Temp Gauge (and you really should do on an Oil/Air-Cooled Engine), you'd most likely find the Oil Temps don't get anywhere near what they should.

My Stelvio would struggle to get the Oil above around 75-80°C on cooler days (below around 12°C), even less if it was raining too.
Makes no difference how far you ride either, it'll reach it's 'normal' operating temperature for the conditions in around 15-20 mins, then pretty-much stay there no matter how many miles you do.

Synthetic Oils (which Guzzi specify) work best at around 110-120°C, and anything below 95-odd won't get rid of the moisture in the Oil, so you get the 'Mayo' forming.
Moisture in the Oil can also combine with the Sulfurous by-products from Combustion, forming acids, which isn't good for Engine internals.

I originally ran mine with a cover over the Cooler in colder weather, then I made a Thermostat to go in the Cooling Oil Circuit.
It now warms up much quicker, and the Oil Temp settles around the 115-120° mark.

+1
beetle recently posted how to plumb in stat
he’s logging oil temps and then result on fuel consumption
expecting positive result , search on here, for any bike with cooler it just makes sense, especially in cold climate or ridden gently.

but op has no cooler, this one classic never got warm
hopefully resolved with new owner but tempting to pull all pipes and clean them, if mayo has blocked breather box it may sprout some oil leaks.

lastly square head bb’s, notorious mayo in frame and pipes
answer is basic
rocker breather is under head , nice little u bend in hose before reaching cold frame
this is where mayo forms
i run my square head as carcano designed bb in 1965
no rocker breathers at all
no mayo , sustains high speed, no oil from breather or anywhere.
ymmv

[frozengoose]

For what it's worth, I vote for humidity being the problem, cause I've never seen it in oil of any of the bikes I've run up here (Alaska) for the last forty years. I seldom ride when it's much above 70 and it's often in the 50's and 60's, so apparently that's warm enough when you have low humidity like we have in the interior. Use 20/50 non-synthetic oil.

[pete roper]

Another thing that compounds the problem is that in cool weather the ETS sends an artificially cool signal to to the ECU which then enriches the mixture too much. Richer mixture runs cooler and burns less efficiently resulting in higher bore wash and blow by contributing to a greater increase in water in the case and breather system.

Pete

[Muzz]

Never had any in my 2TB smallblock.

They are known for running fairly high oil temps.

[mtiberio]

Never heard the mayo referred to as grease. Now if we could only get it placed on the dry splines from the factory.

[drab]

but op has no cooler, this one classic never got warm
hopefully resolved with new owner but tempting to pull all pipes and clean them, if mayo has blocked breather box it may sprout some oil leaks.

Again, thanking you in advance for patience with a newbie.  What does it mean to pull all pipes?

Also, people will be relieved to know that I have put about 500 miles on the bike in the last two days

[Muzz]

Again, thanking you in advance for patience with a newbie.  What does it mean to pull all pipes?

Also, people will be relieved to know that I have put about 500 miles on the bike in the last two days

There are a number of pipes linked from the (LH in the case of the 2TB) rocker box to various things. One is the air box, the idea is that the water vapour gets drawn off by the slight vacuum and then burnt as it goes in through the induction system.  This pipe can get blocked by mayo.  Needs to be clean so that the system works.  Should also be a drain fron the air box to the ground.  This is an oil overflow in case it decides to puke oil; the excess can then drain away rather than blocking your air filter with oil.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Again, thanking you in advance for patience with a newbie.  What does it mean to pull all pipes?

Also, people will be relieved to know that I have put about 500 miles on the bike in the last two days

i reckon all good but as Muzz said have a peek inside airbox, if all clean with slight mist is working, if mayo about still about, clean any hoses thoroughly, get the pdf manual for routing, on older sb’s there is drain from breather box to behind sump, if this gets kinked or blocked, they breathe oil,

[SmithSwede]

Take this for what I’m charging you.   I would not muck about wrenching on your bike or trying to inspect and clean pipes.  I’d just ride the bike a good long way, and get it stinking hot. 

I would only mess with the bike if the problem persists despite you knowing you have done hundreds of miles with the bike plenty hot.

This mayo stuff will evaporate by itself if you get it hot enough.

[antmanbee]

There are a number of pipes linked from the (LH in the case of the 2TB) rocker box to various things. One is the air box, the idea is that the water vapour gets drawn off by the slight vacuum and then burnt as it goes in through the induction system.  This pipe can get blocked by mayo.  Needs to be clean so that the system works.  Should also be a drain fron the air box to the ground.  This is an oil overflow in case it decides to puke oil; the excess can then drain away rather than blocking your air filter with oil.

I don't think there is a hose to the ground. From the bottom of the air box there is a hose that drains condensed oil vapor back to the sump.
Inside the air box where the drain outlet is, there is a very porous black plastic sponge to help condense the oil vapor.

[Pisano]

How does oil presure comes into play here as Water boils at higher temperatures when pressurized.

That may support the get it good and hot ( at leasst over 110deg) to stay clear of the mayo.

From that  I'm also curious about the location where the mayo is typically found.  Could it be in an area of higher oil presure and lower oil temp compared to the rest of the oil system?

[Muzz]

I don't think there is a hose to the ground. From the bottom of the air box there is a hose that drains condensed oil vapor back to the sump.
Inside the air box where the drain outlet is, there is a very porous black plastic sponge to help condense the oil vapor.

I have two hoses going to the ground; that is not counting the battery one.  They do have rubber plugs in them.  As they have remained completely clear so they have never been removed.  Earlier on I tracked them and one did appear to be coming from the air box.  Of course, my eyes may have got all confused by the feculent mishmash in there and I have got it completely wrong.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Take this for what I’m charging you.   I would not muck about wrenching on your bike or trying to inspect and clean pipes.  I’d just ride the bike a good long way, and get it stinking hot. 

I would only mess with the bike if the problem persists despite you knowing you have done hundreds of miles with the bike plenty hot.

This mayo stuff will evaporate by itself if you get it hot enough.

for your duc and almost certainly the OP
+100
use it or loose it
but over cooled and under ridden may not always be fixed by good hiding,
ymmv

[Kev m]

I have two hoses going to the ground; that is not counting the battery one.  They do have rubber plugs in them.  As they have remained completely clear so they have never been removed.  Earlier on I tracked them and one did appear to be coming from the air box.  Of course, my eyes may have got all confused by the feculent mishmash in there and I have got it completely wrong.

But don't you only have a 2TB model?!?

IIRC the breather system was changed on 1TBs and maybe again on IIIs (I haven't checked.

I believe there was some speculation that might have been part of the cure for sudden oil consumption. Though that speculation arises largely from correlation.

[SmithSwede]

A lot of the Ducati guys say that you can also fix this mayo problem by leaving the oil fill cap off the engine overnight or for a few days, so that there is a clear path to the outside environment for the moisture in the oil to evaporate. 

The theory is that the crank case vent has a one-way valve, that only permits gas to be expelled out of the crankcase and into the breather when there is a positive pressure in the crankcase due to movement of the pistons.  Thus when the engine is not running, the valve is closed, and there's no good path for the water to evaporate.  Opening the oil fill cap provides such a path. 

I have not tried that myself so cannot vouch for it.  But it's cheap and easy.   Personally, I vote ride it hard, get it hot, and worry not. 

[Muzz]

But don't you only have a 2TB model?!?

IIRC the breather system was changed on 1TBs and maybe again on IIIs (I haven't checked.

I believe there was some speculation that might have been part of the cure for sudden oil consumption. Though that speculation arises largely from correlation.

Yeah, I did state that Kev as I have never had a close look at a 1TB model to see how much different they are..  Could well have been changes as I know the airbox is of course completely different on the 1TB's.

The airbox on the 2TB is a real bear to work on.

[Dilliw]

Any problem that's solved by going for a long ride isn't really a problem 

[drab]

Take this for what I’m charging you.   I would not muck about wrenching on your bike or trying to inspect and clean pipes.  I’d just ride the bike a good long way, and get it stinking hot. 

I would only mess with the bike if the problem persists despite you knowing you have done hundreds of miles with the bike plenty hot.

This mayo stuff will evaporate by itself if you get it hot enough.

Did 256 miles today - temps in the high 80's.  Tried to keep the revs up.
That is in addition to almost 500 miles in the previous days.   

I'm doing my best  :)

[SmithSwede]

When a problem comes along
You must whip it

Before the ****cream**** sits out too long
You must whip it

When something's going wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

[Kev m]

A lot of the Ducati guys say that you can also fix this mayo problem by leaving the oil fill cap off the engine overnight or for a few days, so that there is a clear path to the outside environment for the moisture in the oil to evaporate. 

< Snip >

I have not tried that myself so cannot vouch for it.  But it's cheap and easy.   Personally, I vote ride it hard, get it hot, and worry not.

I can vouch, from my experience with my Jackal, there is no ducking way, no, no, no ducking way that the dipstick cover off would work on a Tonti Guzzi like that.

Hell I'm still not sure getting it hot, hot, hot would work, as it never did that I could confirm on my Jackal. IIRC when I did discover the mayo it was mid year and months after any winter riding.