vary low hot idle speed 02 california

[s1120]

OK, so first week on the road with this bike, and starting to learn the ins and outs of it. Nice hot day, and a 50 mile run made it tough in stop and go driving because the idle is so slow it stalled. I just got the bike this winter, so its kind of a unknown, but it runs pretty good, and other then low idle hot..  Im planning a TB sync, and it will need a remap I think, but I really need to get my ducks in a row, and get the Guzzidiag cables, and tools needed...  Till then is there a way to bump the idle up a bit? Also its a stone, so no tach....  other then something like guzzidiag is there a way to get a tach reading?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Back in the olden days before GuzziDiag..  A tune up included setting the base line of the TPS, throttle body balance, and idle speed. It still applies. No doubt a search on here will find it. If it's like a Jackal wiring setup, the plug for the tach drive is on the harness..but.. you'll need a tach for it to be much use.

[guzzisteve]

Seen as you are going to do it right soon. For now, take a 2.5mm allen and turn the throttle stop screws on each TB about 1/8 turn in. Do the rest later.

[s1120]

Seen as you are going to do it right soon. For now, take a 2.5mm allen and turn the throttle stop screws on each TB about 1/8 turn in. Do the rest later.

I have just started researching the procedure to sync on this bike..  So im a little green on it.  Bolth TB's have this stop screw? Sounds like the trick. Im going to dig into this for sure...  but right now dont have the time, or all the tools.


As a aside... I was kinda shocked today.. On my ride today I passed another Guzzi rider!!  Cant say ive ever seen more then a handful around these parts!

[Kiwi_Roy]

Shouldn't an 02 California have a fast idle lever, if so just use that for now.

[pehayes]

In fuel injection, components don't change as often or as much as they do with carbs.  Presumably it was idling just fine before.  Now suddenly it is idling low.  Before  you go tampering with the FI, you might investigate WHY it suddenly slowed.
Bad plug?
Bad plug wire?
Crack leaking air into intake tract rubber sleeves?
Fuel flow restriction?

Anybody else have other ideas for a spontaneous change?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Chuck in Indiana]

Patrick, I don't think it was sudden.. he said,

OK, so first week on the road with this bike

[fotoguzzi]

In fuel injection, components don't change as often or as much as they do with carbs.  Presumably it was idling just fine before.  Now suddenly it is idling low.  Before  you go tampering with the FI, you might investigate WHY it suddenly slowed.
Bad plug?
Bad plug wire?
Crack leaking air into intake tract rubber sleeves?
Fuel flow restriction?

Anybody else have other ideas for a spontaneous change?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

you say nice hot day? This happened after riding awhile?  valves too tight? Anyhow you should adjust valve lash ahead of any Guzzi Diaz tune up.

[s1120]

Ya, its a new to me bike, and its always idles slow...  was just not a problem till hot stop and go riding. I did do a lash adjustment. I plan to recheck it when I do the sync/map.

It does have a fast idle lever. Now is this just idle control? no enrichment at all?? 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ya, its a new to me bike, and its always idles slow...  was just not a problem till hot stop and go riding. I did do a lash adjustment. I plan to recheck it when I do the sync/map.

It does have a fast idle lever. Now is this just idle control? no enrichment at all??

Correct. Have a look at the throttle linkage and you can see what is happening.

[s1120]

Correct. Have a look at the throttle linkage and you can see what is happening.

Awesome.  Maybe Ill just give that a nudge when needed till I get in there and sync/map.

I was planning to do it all this winter, but I hadnt put any miles on it, so I kind of wanted to put some miles on it to get a baseline, and a feel for what I do, and dont like about its running.

[Vagrant]

past owner might have made it idle like a harley! you can get cheap tachs on line for under $20 that just wrap around the plug wire. get everything set right and you won't need it anymore. the TPS is subject to wear and getting gunked up from long sits. I'm sure the Guzzi dia will let you see if there is a problem with it. they can be cleaned with contact cleaner.
But for now as stated use the lever.

[s1120]

past owner might have made it idle like a harley! you can get cheap tachs on line for under $20 that just wrap around the plug wire. get everything set right and you won't need it anymore. the TPS is subject to wear and getting gunked up from long sits. I'm sure the Guzzi dia will let you see if there is a problem with it. they can be cleaned with contact cleaner.
But for now as stated use the lever.

Nice thanks.  Ill have to get some cables order up, and start messing about with the GD a little..   It has a open air box, FBF H pipe and Lafranconi mufflers. I have no idea if it was remapped to the mods so thats why I wanted some time on it to find any issues before I messed with it. Seems to have a lot of vibrations at low speeds, and with applying throttle, so Im pretty sure the sync is out. No idea on past adjustments, or mods other then what I can see. It really hasnt been touched much...  it only have 9K miles on it, and is really like new.

[bigbikerrick]

What Guzzi Steve recommended with the stop screws, and also you may try tweaking the air screws a bit and see how many turns out they are.
This is  just to get you by,until you do the full  tune up with TB synch ,and TPS voltage check, etc.
I hope his helps,
Rick.

[s1120]

Awesome thanks!   

Now Ive read a few things on syncing these...  is there a vid showing it, or maybe procedure thats better then others? 

[Tom H]

TPS setting:
http://www.bikeboy.org/tpssetting.html

TPS and balance:
https://archive.guzzitech.com/EVTuneup-Jeff_B.html

Tom

[Wayne Orwig]

Go ahead and do a valve adjustment now.

[s1120]

Go ahead and do a valve adjustment now.

I did do a valve adjustment on it. I do plan to recheck it when I balance the TB's.


This being said...   What good sync gauges are out there for lower cost? I used to have a old set of gauges back in my 4cyl UJM days..  but they walked many years ago when I was out of riding for a bit.

[ejs]

 
Morgan carbtune 2

[Moto]

A too-slow idle speed might notch the splines on the inside of the flywheel where the clutch plates have to slide. A rough idle caused by unbalanced throttle bodies would make that happen even faster, I suppose. The rotational inertia of the plates sitting in the slots of the flywheel as it accelerates and decelerates during each firing cycle is said to be responsible. (This a Pete Roper theory that I found plausible.)

Investing in a cheap, inductive tachometer that will make it easier to keep the idle at 1100 rpm could delay the flywheel replacement that you may soon be needing, depending on how long the previous owner ran it with the speed too low.

Here's a water resistant one on Amazon that will do, for $28 and change, until you make a permanent fix. It just requires you to wrap a sensor wire around a spark plug cable: No 12 volt feed is needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Hardline-Products-HR-8061-2-Tachometer-2-Cylinder/dp/B000FOOAXY/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=inductive+motorcycle+tachometer+hardline&qid=1558445838&s=gateway&sr=8-2

Moto

[pehayes]

I did do a valve adjustment on it. I do plan to recheck it when I balance the TB's. This being said...   What good sync gauges are out there for lower cost? I used to have a old set of gauges back in my 4cyl UJM days..  but they walked many years ago when I was out of riding for a bit.

If cost is a factor, there are Internet reports for 'roll-yer-own' manometers.  I made one.  I still usually revert to my old poisonous mercury CarbStix.



Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Wayne Orwig]

I did do a valve adjustment on it. I do plan to recheck it when I balance the TB's.


This being said...   What good sync gauges are out there for lower cost? I used to have a old set of gauges back in my 4cyl UJM days..  but they walked many years ago when I was out of riding for a bit.

You can try a long tube with some oil in it. Works very well and is too cheap not to at least try.
There are a few writeups on how to do it.
(Patrick beat me to it)

[Tom H]

Twin vacuum gauge set. Also check for the same thing at fleabay. There may be a better price. I bought a set like this and has worked well.
https://www.amazon.com/AlphaMoto-Vacuum-Carburetor-Synchronizer-Cylinder/dp/B004MSJ7C8/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=motorcycle+vacuum+gauge&qid=1558457883&s=gateway&sr=8-9

Tom

[Moto]

If cost is a factor, there are Internet reports for 'roll-yer-own' manometers.  I made one.  I still usually revert to my old poisonous mercury CarbStix.



Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Say, are the two white plastic pipes intended to be pressure fluctuation dampers? Or just overflow receptacles?

EDIT: if dampers, does the device give steadier readings than your poisonous CarbStix?

Interesting setup.

Moto

[s1120]

A too-slow idle speed might notch the splines on the inside of the flywheel where the clutch plates have to slide. A rough idle caused by unbalanced throttle bodies would make that happen even faster, I suppose. The rotational inertia of the plates sitting in the slots of the flywheel as it accelerates and decelerates during each firing cycle is said to be responsible. (This a Pete Roper theory that I found plausible.)

Investing in a cheap, inductive tachometer that will make it easier to keep the idle at 1100 rpm could delay the flywheel replacement that you may soon be needing, depending on how long the previous owner ran it with the speed too low.

Here's a water resistant one on Amazon that will do, for $28 and change, until you make a permanent fix. It just requires you to wrap a sensor wire around a spark plug cable: No 12 volt feed is needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Hardline-Products-HR-8061-2-Tachometer-2-Cylinder/dp/B000FOOAXY/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=inductive+motorcycle+tachometer+hardline&qid=1558445838&s=gateway&sr=8-2

Moto

I didnt think of those. I think I might have one laying around somewhere. ive used them on garden tractors before. If not that reminded me I have a lazer tach also...   Might work well enough till I get up and running with Guzzidiag....  Thanks all for for the help!

[s1120]

Well I decided after a few weeks of bubblegumming it using the fast idle lever..I needed to fix this at least close to right..  So I got in there, and started with a TPS reset. It was pretty far out. 178mv with the screw backed out...  MAN these are a bit of a pain to get spot on are they not? After much fiddling, for some time.. I settled on getting her locked down right around 152mv...  OK, so now to set idle vts…  After fiddling I got her right at .530..  A quick run, and test ride shows great improvement!!  I don't have to use the fast idle any more, and the power delivery is much smoother!!!  Im wondering if a past owner messed with the TPS to make it work with the intake, and exoust mods..  It pops back much more, and I can really tell it is going to need a remap!!!    OK so next onto the throttle balance.. A few min fabing up a homemade manometer, and some hoses, I hooked it up. Air bleeds were bolth about 1/2 turn out, so I kept them there. Throttle balance was out to lunch!!  Idle balance took almost a full turn on the right TB idle stop to get it right. I don't have a tach.. and couldn't find the lazer one I have....  So I ballparked the cruse rpm for high speed balance by ear. It also was a bit off. So I haven't test rode it yet...  But it starts and runs a lot nicer. The TPS adjustment really helped a lot. Next up is a remap!....  off to read that thread, and find some cords.....

[Tom H]

 

Tom

[s1120]

OK, so just got back from a test drive...  Much smoother..  More a throb under power, not thumping.  I like it. a LOT of popping on decell…  HAVE to get it mapped..  No doupt. But all in all nice..  Idle rpm might be a tick too high now...  But its better, and Ill refine it when I have GuzziDiag all setup. 

[Tom H]

Guzzidiag has a tach display. When you get your cables, that will help you a bit.

Tom

[Vagrant]

best look for exhaust leaks at the header, crossover pipe to header and to muffler. I suspect you have big air leaks there.