Czakky’s T3

[czakky82]

Hope everybody had a great holiday. I spent mine replacing chrome bores! Which went really well.
 I’m having more and more questions about this old girl so I figured I would start my own thread. Instead of cluttering up the board.

I recently did the recommended timing chain/tensioner replacement and while I had my right cylinder off swapping out old chrome ones I noticed one of the original tensioner bolts (unused and shortened) was through the case a bit on the crank side. It looks like about 1mm or more of clearance to the crank on the forward most counterweight.

Is this enough? I have no clue how much a crank can move under load.

I am not too keen on buying another timing gasket and removing the sprockets again to shorten this bolt.

Thanks as usual for any guidance.

[guzzisteve]

If you can pull crank forward w/hand in hole for cyl, pull in clutch too, that puts pressure on the crank also. See if it's got clearance to the flyweight. Put a tiewrap on clutch lever. 
Safer to have it flush w/case, extra work and parts or not.

[czakky82]

Good point on the clutch, I didn’t think of that....

All the money and effort I suppose I should make it right.

[czakky82]

You think I can re-use a metal core timing cover gasket?

[czakky82]

So Greg Bender’s super awesome and helpful website has the handlebar switch wiring for a Cal II. My somewhat helpful Clymer manual has a somewhat legible wiring diagram for a Euro spec T3.
My bike is a 77’ T3 civilian as far as I can tell.

Are these going to have the same wiring as either bikes?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

So Greg Bender’s super awesome and helpful website has the handlebar switch wiring for a Cal II. My somewhat helpful Clymer manual has a somewhat legible wiring diagram for a Euro spec T3.
My bike is a 77’ T3 civilian as far as I can tell.

Are these going to have the same wiring as either bikes?

What switch are you installing on your T3? Greg sells a "plug and play" adapter for both K&S and Domino switches:
K&S:

Domino:


See all the details here: http://thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_wiring_harness_tonti_850_t3.html

[czakky82]

I saw that but I wanted to run the wires through the bars.

I have some Emgo switches from MG. They are narrow and have an on/off switch, if not attractive...

[guzzisteve]

You think I can re-use a metal core timing cover gasket?

Yes, if w/you wipe it off no rubber is missing. Then you may want to use a very light smear of Pro Black on it or Threebond.

[jcctx]

late to the party but could you just remove bolt and put a washer under the head?? Probably to simple to work??? Or, better yet~ crank it up see if it works as is???

[czakky82]

@Steve, got one ordered anyway...

@jcctx, if/when I make it that far to the not shortened enough bolt I will just buzz her down some more. It does have enough clearance but this is going to be my zen cruiser and I don’t like having these things in the back of mind. Plus I’m not sure what goes on in there when nobody is looking!

[czakky82]

At this point I’ve got to get back in the timing case to shorten up those pesky bolt(s). Then I’m going to wrap up my brake job with fresh lines. Followed by the replacement of both the gaskets on the sump lowering kit and fresh oil of course.

After that I was thinking of putting some fresh lube on the splines. Should I? What’s involved?

Definitely don’t need a step by step but I hardly read about anybody arriving old Tonti splines. Am I missing something?

Please pardon my ignorance...

[czakky82]

I found a very small amount of pitting on my 2 of my cam followers when replacing the cylinders. Like two 1-.5mm specs of plating missing. Of course I’m all buttoned up now.

Should I worry? Will I notice an increase in valve lash if I have problems?

[czakky82]

What do you guys/gals think of my splines. I haven’t cleaned them up or anything. Bike has an alleged 45k miles.
Thanks for any input

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

What do you guys/gals think of my splines. I haven’t cleaned them up or anything. Bike has an alleged 45k miles.
Thanks for any input

Approx. 50% worn.

[pehayes]

When new, the tooth crowns and tooth valleys were all approximately equal dimensions.  What we see now is worn but serviceable.  How many more miles do you expect?  Not another 100K.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[czakky82]

I was thinking less 50% life. So thanks!

I guess I would just like to not worry about it for a couple tire changes. Also it looks like parts are still available for not crazy money.

Moving on to the u-joint and swing arm bearings....

Thanks for your input guys.

[czakky82]

Swing arm out and u-joint too. The u-joint seems to fit into the carrier bearing somewhat easy, maybe a slight push to fit. I can feel not play in the u-joint splines are great. Carrier bearing is smooth and happy.
The only thing I’m a bit unclear about is the fit between u-joint and bearing. Everything I’ve read is “tight” not pressed or tapered. I’m just not sure how tight is tight...

Not trying to be cheap, I just want it right.

Thanks for any input

[czakky82]

While she purred like a kitten and fired up before the starter made a single rotation, unfortunately she was leaking like the Econ Valdez out of the bell housing  . Frame crabbed trans out...

Any recommendations on things to take a look at while the trans is out? Selector spring? I’m just going to replace any seal I can find. Isn’t there o-rings for the push rod that are leak prone?

[canuck750]

Replace the two crush washers on each side of the large bajo bolt at the base of the engine block and use some thread sealant on the bolt threads, my Eldorado leaked out of that bolts for two years/ You could check the rear crank shaft main seal but you will need to pull the clutch and flywheel and then you as may as well replace the clutch discs......

[Muzz]

While she purred like a kitten and fired up before the starter made a single rotation, unfortunately she was leaking like the Econ Valdez out of the bell housing  . Frame crabbed trans out...

Any recommendations on things to take a look at while the trans is out? Selector spring? I’m just going to replace any seal I can find. Isn’t there o-rings for the push rod that are leak prone?

Although mine is a smallblock, oil leaks are the same.

The burning question is, which oil, motor or gearbox?

Engine oil usually discoloured.  Gearbox oil has an acrid smell. May be black from clutch dust though. You don't want to replace all the gearbox seals only to find it was the main seal in the engine.                                   

[czakky82]

Replace the two crush washers on each side of the large bajo bolt at the base of the engine block and use some thread sealant on the bolt threads, my Eldorado leaked out of that bolts for two years/ You could check the rear crank shaft main seal but you will need to pull the clutch and flywheel and then you as may as well replace the clutch discs......

The plan is to replace anything that might leak... Will do!

[czakky82]

Although mine is a smallblock, oil leaks are the same.

The burning question is, which oil, motor or gearbox?

Engine oil usually discoloured.  Gearbox oil has an acrid smell. May be black from clutch dust though. You don't want to replace all the gearbox seals only to find it was the main seal in the engine.                                   

It is definitely engine oil. Hard to say for sure it’s the main seal but the PO didn’t know he had a sump extension with a regular dipstick (a quart over filled). After cleaning the engine the only place that had oil was the bell housing weep hole. Nice clean oil after a fresh change.
I was hoping the flywheel and clutch would come out as a unit (first time getting this deep into a Guzzi). Would you suspect it would need a clutch at 45k?

[czakky82]

One more thing. Do I need the clutch centering tool, main bearing puller or the main seal installation tool?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Would you suspect it would need a clutch at 45k?

That depends entirely on how it has been ridden. Sitting at stop lights holding the lever in? Maybe. Drag racing?  Yep.

[czakky82]

Alright, alright I’ll throw some friction discs in my MG Cycle cart. I hope my wife never discovers how much I spend there.

What about the specialty tools? You guys find them necessary?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

One more thing. Do I need the clutch centering tool, main bearing puller or the main seal installation tool?

The clutch hub can be used as a clutch centering/spring compressor tool with a suitable spacer for in the center and bolt. If you're using friction plates with 2 mm splines (vs. the later 4 mm splines) this tool is inexpensive: https://www.claussstudios.com/store/p726/Moto_Guzzi_V700_Ambassador_Clutch_Alignment_Tool.html

If you're pulling the rear main bearing/flange, then the proper tool or a home-made copy is a good idea.

A main seal installation tool isn't really necessary IMO - I install the seal into the main bearing while it's out of the engine. A large socket makes a good seal driver.

[czakky82]

I think I’ll do the trans input seal. Even if it shows no signs of leaking. That way the only special tool I’ll need is the special socket.
Thanks

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I think I’ll do the trans input seal. Even if it shows no signs of leaking. That way the only special tool I’ll need is the special socket.
Thanks

There are two o-rings on the input shaft that you should replace too.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=117&products_id=1382
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=117&products_id=1385

And I would recommend replacing the clutch pushrod seal (could be a plastic sleeve or the "update" two rubber cones) with the six o-ring stack. I'll send you the six o-rings for free if you PM me your mailing address.

[czakky82]

Can’t pass that up! PM sent

[czakky82]

Alright the back of the engine is all sealed (main seal, gasket, crush washers,can plug and breather return gasket). Transmission is almost all sealed as well as a new output bearing and thrust bearing. Clutch kit on order (SD TEC) fresh springs etc.

I have a question on my swingarm though.
I stuck the nicer u-joint that MG sells in the freezer and mated it with a fresh carrier bearing. I’m just not sure i’ve got the u-joint seated all the way. How do you tell?