V7 Muffler Fire

[egschade]

Why's everybody trying to turn this into an alternative exhaust thread, start your own thread or I will nuke this one 
Seriously, I have no problem with the exhaust the bike came with apart from its flammable foil, it seems perfectly fine without it

Sorry - blame it on thread drift. Thought I read that you were considering a replacement in one of your responses but guess I was wrong. 

[egschade]

Sorry - blame it on thread drift. Thought I read that you were considering a replacement in one of your responses but guess I was wrong. 

And concerning the flat battery, I has a nearly new one fail due to an internal mechanical failure - broken plate or post. Charging circuit was fine but battery crapped out when warm.

[jpv7]

haven't looked in a while but MG was way cheaper. get new exhaust gaskets to unless they come with them.

+1.  For my V7ii, I went with the short Mistrals from MG Cycle.  With the Db killers IN, they sound just right - not too quiet and not too loud.  Nice quality too. 

[jpv7]

Oops - sorry for the drift...

[Kiwi_Roy]

Oops - sorry for the drift...

At least we are not discussing hunting knifes this time

[Bulldog9]

A bit more detail.
I rode about 40 km to Langley, stopped for coffee and the bike would not restart click click click as they do when the battery is flat, I have had my suspicions about the charging for quite a while. I had done 150 km the day before.
Push started OK so sought out a hill and stopped to drink my coffee.
It would not restart rolling down the hill, called the dealer where I bought it from <5km away, no help from there.
A guy came along and tried to give me a jump start, it would run for a few seconds with the odd backfire so we gave up on that
I tried calling the dealer again still no help. (they might of at least suggested a towing company)
Tried it one last time and it reluctantly started reving then dying but rideable so I set out for the dealers.
Waiting to turn at the last light (< 5km) when the guy tapped me on the shoulder.
Tried to bat out the flames with my glove, no joy there, it took water to quell the flames. Perhaps I should have ridden it on fire to the dealership and left it for them to deal with lol
Left it at the dealer for a week with no word, finally after a week I rode out there and was told the backfire had blown the throttle body off, its a wonder it started.
They had no explanation for the lack of charging which initiated the problem, "it tested ok"
I keep my bike really clean, there was no outside flammables introduced, it was the Aluminium foil and or glue that provided for fire.

If it can happen to me it can happen to someone else, I wonder what would happen at 80 mph with extra oxygen to burn?

Of course I will install a Voltmeter but I will get to the bottom of the charging system, I promise you that, it's still intermittent but the new battery is a little more forgiving.

With that information, it makes sense now. I didn't realize you had several failed starts. In all the failed starting, you likely dumped a bunch of fuel into the cat, and when you got it started you had a nice little fire going. Very happy you caught it.  I agree with others, a flat battery may be the issue. May also want to do an oil change if you dumped that much fuel into the system to set the cats afire.  That glued on aluminum  sheeting is a fire waiting to happen on any bike IMO.

[twowheeladdict]

So, raw fuel dumped into exhaust was the cause of the fire.  No consensus on why raw fuel got dumped into exhaust.  Maybe running on one cylinder?  Burning on one cylinder got cat hot, while raw fuel from the other ignited in cat.

This happened to a friend I was following.  He was riding a BMW F650 single cylinder with two carbs.  To much fuel and side cover started melting.  Stuck open carb.

[Kiwi_Roy]

So, raw fuel dumped into exhaust was the cause of the fire.  No consensus on why raw fuel got dumped into exhaust.  Maybe running on one cylinder?  Burning on one cylinder got cat hot, while raw fuel from the other ignited in cat.

This happened to a friend I was following.  He was riding a BMW F650 single cylinder with two carbs.  To much fuel and side cover started melting.  Stuck open carb.

Yes, I told you further back, tried to jump start, backfired and blew the throttle body off, not something you would easily notice, probably missing now and then which would let unburnt fuel pass through, not great globs, just a normal mixture but enough to get the Cats excited.
The root cause was still a charging problem, not easy to troubleshoot on this bike as all the connections are hidden out of sight but I'm working on it.

[egschade]

At least we are not discussing hunting knifes this time

What's that? You're interested in hunting knives? I know a guy who sells great knives - his name is Michael J. Dundee...

[malik]

............

I was going to keep the stock exhaust for my V7 III Stone neighborliness reasons but am now rethinking that position.  I'll check with Cadre and GTM on the quietest systems they recommend.

FWIW I found that the Moto Guzzi branded Arrow mufflers that (I believe) came standard on some of the early V7 Racers is one of the quietest after the stick. Works very well on my Beetle-mapped 1TB with the fatter Agostini headers.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Does anyone have a contact at Piaggio that I can send my fire report to, I don't think its getting the attention it deserves filtered through the dealership.
Thanks
Roy
 

[Rich A]

Does anyone have a contact at Piaggio that I can send my fire report to, I don't think its getting the attention it deserves filtered through the dealership.
Thanks
Roy

Maybe a report to the NTSB, too. A vehicle on fire is a serious matter.

Rich A

[Bert Remington]

I think the advice here is your best next step: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=106472.msg1686902#msg1686902

[dguzzi]

Do you suppose that IF there was a recall or bulletin, the dealer would remove the aluminum and put the guard back on?
  Or add spacers to make more gap for air to flow between?  I agree with going up the ladder to report it.

[Muzz]

Moto Guzzi themselves USED to have a contact site; don't know whether they still have.

I sent a "missive" to them when my gearbox went belly up the first time.

Never heard back, par for the course I guess.

[waxi]

Moto Guzzi themselves USED to have a contact site; don't know whether they still have.

I sent a "missive" to them when my gearbox went belly up the first time.

Never heard back, par for the course I guess.

http://static.piaggio.com/contact_us/form-motoguzzi_en.html

[chrisfer]

I found that my motorcycle smelled a little bit burnt for a few thousand kilometers ...
I dismantled these heat shields, and a kind of double-sided tape was in a ball and the aluminium touched the catalyst and the tape smelled like burnt,
I removed the aluminum and the tape, it is not easy the glue is very strong.

[Chuck in Indiana]

In my experience, some important MG connectors are "open" (eg, Molex style).  That is, they do not have seals preventing water intrusion.  Same with fuses.  I like to backfill the exposed terminals with the grease to block water intrusion plus reduce oxidation.  And when I separate the sealed connectors, I dab a bit of grease on the outside to make them easier to separate in the future.

Fine, use Vaseline.. *not* dielectric grease. That has been covered here for years.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yes, I told you further back, tried to jump start, backfired and blew the throttle body off, not something you would easily notice, probably missing now and then which would let unburnt fuel pass through, not great globs, just a normal mixture but enough to get the Cats excited.
The root cause was still a charging problem, not easy to troubleshoot on this bike as all the connections are hidden out of sight but I'm working on it.

This is easy to go unnoticed. Obviously the smoking gun and why fires aren't happening to V7s everywhere.

[Two Checks]

Quote from: Kiwi_Roy on June 28, 2020, 05:29:14 PM

You guys are all ignoring the fact that I am very lucky to still have this bike.
The combustible exhaust needs to be addressed, not the battery Voltage problem, It went from stone cold on the side of the road to almost total melt down in 10 minutes. Yes Kev M the unburnt fuel in the cat caused them to overheat which set the Aluminium foil or glue alight, it was not going out without application of water.
I'm not sure what the foil is supposed to do but it's sure a good fire starter.

I'm confused.

In the first post you say this happened due to a charging problem.

In the post I quoted the voltage problem doesn't need to be addressed.

So, are you saying a charging problem DIDN'T cause the exhaust problem?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Are you saying a charging problem DIDN'T cause the exhaust problem?

No, I never meant that at all
The fire was started by a charging problem, if it had been charging properly the fire would never have started.
But the fuel for the fire was provided by the exhaust system
See Chrisfers experience back in reply No 46

[Andy1]

Excuse my ignorance but how can the engine run with the throttle body blown off?
AndyB

[John A]

They run just fine with the throttel body blown off
It only goes a little ways, maybe ten mm, you would attribute irregular running to happenstance and not even know

[Two Checks]

Quote from: Kiwi_Roy on Today at 10:26:49 AM

No, I never meant that at all
The fire was started by a charging problem, if it had been charging properly the fire would never have started.
But the fuel for the fire was provided by the exhaust system
See Chrisfers experience back in reply No 46

If the fire was started by the the charging problem it WAS the cause! The foil burned because excess fuel was in the exhaust, causing the fire. The fire was secondary. The charging problem caused the excess fuel. Replacing the exhaust doesn't fix the cause of the fire. Who is to say with new exhaust the excess fuel won't cause another fire?

Fix the cause first then the symptom.

[chrisfer]

The reason for the fire is the high heat of the catalyst combined with the double-sided adhesive that sticks to the aluminum foil.

On my V7 III, the tape is left without an engine fault, and when the aluminum touching the catalyst the tape behind began to smell strongly and to burn, without fire.

[Chuck in Indiana]

They run just fine with the throttel body blown off
It only goes a little ways, maybe ten mm, you would attribute irregular running to happenstance and not even know

Well, I wouldn't say "just fine.." but they'll run. Dorcia and I were following a pack of rolling roadblocks  on a tight twisty road in the Appalachians.. the Mighty Scura did a little sneeze and started running roughly. Headed back to camp and found the left throttle body loose.. the same scenario as KR had. No cat to set on fire, though..

[John A]

Well, I wouldn't say "just fine.." but they'll run. Dorcia and I were following a pack of rolling roadblocks  on a tight twisty road in the Appalachians.. the Mighty Scura did a little sneeze and started running roughly. Headed back to camp and found the left throttle body loose.. the same scenario as KR had. No cat to set on fire, though..

A monster like the Mighty Scura would have to have everything correct or it might blow the heads right off but a small block could get by with a paltrey air leak   

[Kiwi_Roy]

I am pursuing the charging problem but I won't post what I found on this thread, its already subject to thread drift without that lol

[twowheeladdict]

This thread has changed the way I put the bike away after a spirited ride.  Have to think about the pets.

[Andy1]

Chuck
Cut me down if I am wrong, but a TB loose is different to a TB that has fallen off!
If the TB has fallen off it will give full airflow but less petrol as the TPS will not be fully open.  So I would have though the engine would have a weaker mixture than normal?

Or if the TB had fallen off would the lambdas run weak so that they made the ECU demand more fuel....?
AndyB