*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[guzzijack]

Short memories around here? And I thought it was only our local water that had a high aluminium content!



Biggest Guzzi engine I see scheduled for roll out is a 1400cc twin. Might be a bit behind schedule and the graphics don't exactly match the blurb but there's an 8v 1400 listed.

GJ

[Kev m]

Interesting rumor, but the question I would ask is why more than 1200?  If you go beefier in the motor, you'll need beefier frame, then you'll start loading it up with all kinds of HD-like stuff and the bike will gain 200lbs.

A 1200 V (twin valve, not four!), 6 speed, monoshock rear with CARC.  Why not try to take OFF 50lbs and get it around 500lbs with 100 ponies?  Keep the cruiser look but lose the fat.  Make it a big cruiser that will out-handle and out run a sporty (pretty much close to that already, but might as well spike the ball in the endzone?).  

I don't think we need many more cubes.  The thing is already the best "classic" cruiser out there.  I'd hate to see Guzzi get all "Goldwing" on us.

YUP

 8)

[Greg Field]

This is Piaggio we're talking about here. To get to 1400 cc means adding 200 cc to the Norge-type engine. They accommodated for the bore increase when the 1200 engine came on-line, moving the oil returns outward from bore center in head and cylinders. It's all going to be done internally, with no need for a beefier frame and an extra pound per cc. If there's a new frame, it will be done more so to make it cheaper to produce (and, if we are lucky, to allow use of a bigger alternator), rather than because the current one can't handle whatever relatively paltry increase in horsepower will come with the extra 200 cc and two valves.

[JohnG.]

Is it common for Guzzi to anounce a new model in Australia?  Maybe we should check their website.   ::)

AJ

Nope,we got the Stelvio last...

[joeguzzi]

I liked that photshop bike, you have the idea, niw build a real ine. My grandad was a drad racer in the mid 60's. he linked 4 289's to gether in a dragster. they outlawed him, he only do exobisons after that. it could lay smoke all the way down the 1/4, but was a female dog to stop!

Troy. think about it for a moment.

Where are the exhaust gasses going to go from the back cylinder? How is the new charge going to get into the front one? These aren't simply constraints of engineering, they are constraints of reality.

Also what the hell is an exobison??? A buffalo with a shell?? ;D

Pete

Pete, I thought you kept up on the the new stuff. That is the double burn required to meet Euro 17 specs. One cyl gets fresh fuel air, goes to the next for double burn then out clean as a baby's arse.

Joe in Atlanta
1972 Eldorado
2004 Ballabio

[Kev m]

This is Piaggio we're talking about here. To get to 1400 cc means adding 200 cc to the Norge-type engine. They accommodated for the bore increase when the 1200 engine came on-line, moving the oil returns outward from bore center in head and cylinders. It's all going to be done internally, with no need for a beefier frame and an extra pound per cc. If there's a new frame, it will be done more so to make it cheaper to produce (and, if we are lucky, to allow use of a bigger alternator), rather than because the current one can't handle whatever relatively paltry increase in horsepower will come with the extra 200 cc and two valves.

Is there enough room in the current block for another 200cc or 400cc increase?

Not that I think I want or need it, just curious.

[Greg Field]

It seems to be what they are thinking. The plan announced several years ago was a 1400cc with 4vpc.

[azguzzirep]

Well,

I own a 1965 BMW/2 with 1600cc's. :) :) :)

It's Volkswagon powered, built in 1969 by my Uncle Mo. He made four of them using the Roger Willis kits. Mine was his personal bike that he won many awards with, including an award at the 10th BMWOA rally for going to all 10 rallys on the same motorcycle.

Tom

[danr]

Well,

I own a 1965 BMW/2 with 1600cc's. :) :) :)

It's Volkswagon powered, built in 1969 by my Uncle Mo. He made four of them using the Roger Willis kits. Mine was his personal bike that he won many awards with, including an award at the 10th BMWOA rally for going to all 10 rallys on the same motorcycle.

Tom

PICTURES PLEASE

[troyhamilton]

I heard of some bikes built on brazil based on that idea I think they were called brazilions (not wax jobs)

[Turin]

Amazonas http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://amazonas.50megs.com/images/brochure_front.jpg&imgrefurl=http://amazonas.50megs.com/&usg=__eUPgCwmkDhehdwYkLZg15ai4o-M=&h=338&w=465&sz=30&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=512OaLP28OYrJM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Damazonas%2Bmotorcycle%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

[azguzzirep]

Yup, saw those!

I have also seen BMWs packing 1835cc with dual port heads, and all the go fast stuf. Too much for me!

My Uncles bike bike looks like a stock /2, but with a couple extra spark plug wires.

Sorry,

This site won't let me post a pic. I've tried till I'm blue in the face.. Ain't gonna try again.

It's like my dad told me; If at first you don't succeed ,try, try and try again. Then give up. No sence in being a damn fool about it.

Tom

[WEJ]

OK, I went out and bought the mag. It references an interview with Daniele Torresan (Guzzi head of communications) in the Freanch magazine AutoMoto, the French version is found here:
http://www.automoto.fr/actualite-automobile/moto/interview-moto-moto-guzzi-nouvelle-california-torresan-4408145.html

Here is Google's "translation":

Magazine: Mr Torresan at the presentation of the V7 Classic Cafe in Rome, developing a version with the engine of the Bellagio was raised. Where is this project?

Daniele Torresan: Indeed, we think the ongoing market opportunities that may arise for Moto Guzzi. The engine of the Bellagio was popular and its characteristics would further reinforce the spirit that emanates from the V7 Classic. But on the other hand, this version of the cylinder and its transmission cardan are more expensive to produce than all currently used 750 cm3. And we believe that we can offer a 910 cm3 at a rate sufficiently competitive. In the near future, the neo-classical segment will be developed based on the V7.

Magazine: So do not expect major new 2010 side Mandello?

Daniele Torresan: I only say it will not necessarily find on the retro segment. This does not mean that Moto Guzzi abandons any development, on the contrary. Like other manufacturers, the economic crisis leads us to search for Relay to support our sales and our production. And we believe that there are better opportunities that any "V10" in a market where our V7 already has all the arguments to convince.

Magazine: What else? The strategy of confrontation with the flat-twin Bavarian has not led to an explosion in sales and management has evolved in 2009. Should we then believe that Moto Guzzi turns his gaze on the other side of the Atlantic where a certain optimism seems emerge?

Daniele Torresan: The U.S. market is obviously attractive to a company like Moto Guzzi, which combines tradition, originality and character. We have the know-how to offer a bike that meets their requirements. Our customers here have been waiting a long time the California of the 21st century. With its 1100 cm3, the current model is more consistent with a competition which has at least five cents. We will return to the race with an engine displacement adequate. Triumph has included with its cylinder of 1600 cm3. Similarly Moto Guzzi will focus on its strengths to advance. It is therefore logical to re-interpret one of our legendary models for one of the biggest market on earth. America is still big customs 240,000 per year, even in times of crisis. Customers are on average slightly older than in Europe and their investment in higher motorcycles. Obviously we will not do the same volumes that Harley-Davidson but our goals are from 4000 to 5000 units in 2010. This would represent a great growth for Moto Guzzi, which I remind you, is a registered almost artisanal in the noblest sense of the word.

ENDS.

And the pic they used in the AMCN to accompany the story?  A Cali Aluminium!

~ Wiley

[rocker59]

A 910cc small-block?  Sweet!  Hopefully it'll have 8v heads!!!

The 1600cc was obviously a reference to Triumph's Thunderbird...

No mention of the new California's displacement, although as Greg mentioned, 1400cc 8v has been rumoured in the past...

[Muzz]

I thought 750cc was as big as they could physically take the small-block.

[Kev m]

When they say "based on the V7" are you sure they don't just mean dressing up a Bellagio with LOOKS based on the V7?  (not that I would mind, though a smaller, lighter 910cc V7 would be my preference).

[Greg Field]

Here's my interpretation of the translation:

"Yes, the Bellagio platform would make for some very nice retros, but the smallblock platform is far cheaper to produce, so we're going to base all our retros on the smallblock. We are looking at addressing performance concerns by increasing displacement to as much as 910cc."

[Kev m]

Guess I should have actually read the translation eh?   :D

[rocker59]

Here's my interpretation of the translation:

"Yes, the Bellagio platform would make for some very nice retros, but the smallblock platform is far cheaper to produce, so we're going to base all our retros on the smallblock. We are looking at addressing performance concerns by increasing displacement to as much as 910cc."

That's how I read it...

The last paragraph about the nuovo California is kinda troubling...  Mentioning Harley and then Triumph's new 1600cc Thunderbird...  I hope that doesn't mean they've come up with a monster like the new Triumph...  Forward controls and a 64" wheelbase would make me puke...  I guess we'll soon see...

[Seagondollar]

Here's my interpretation of the translation:

"Yes, the Bellagio platform would make for some very nice retros, but the smallblock platform is far cheaper to produce, so we're going to base all our retros on the smallblock. We are looking at addressing performance concerns by increasing displacement to as much as 910cc."

That's how I read it...

The last paragraph about the nuovo California is kinda troubling...  Mentioning Harley and then Triumph's new 1600cc Thunderbird...  I hope that doesn't mean they've come up with a monster like the new Triumph...  Forward controls and a 64" wheelbase would make me puke...  I guess we'll soon see...

But isn't that how Piaggio perceives the future of Guzzi?  Cali cruisers?  Sport bikes will be made by Aprilia, scooters by Vespa, etc.  With certain pre-existing overlaps.

[rocker59]

 
But isn't that how Piaggio perceives the future of Guzzi?  Cali cruisers?  

I don't know about that.  There is currently only one variant of the California available in the USA.  The Vintage...

In the "good ole days" before Piaggio we had things like Jackals, Stones, Specials, Bassas, EVs, etc...

Piaggio's emphasis seems to have been on emulating BMW with the CARC bikes... 

[Kev m]

Perhaps Piaggio looks at Aprilia as water-cooled Sport-Bikes

and

Guzzi as air-cooled Cruisers, Standards, and Sport-Tourers

 ???

[dgurovich]

Perhaps Piaggio looks at Aprilia as water-cooled Sport-Bikes and
Guzzi as air-cooled Cruisers, Standards, and Sport-Tourers

Probably don't forget "retros"...  And this is bad because we need hot sport bikes from Guzzi?  Who'd buy them?  I think that mix is about right.

[SidecarMike]

I heard of some bikes built on brazil based on that idea I think they were called brazilions (not wax jobs)

The Amazonas.

[Horseman]

Hey Danilo,

 Speaking of Sport-Tourers, how's your 1200S doing? Sorry to change the subject for a second, Gentlemen.

[Horseman]

I just saw Danilo's answer in another post. My apologies to everyone.<diclass="msgbox">Noilesuploaded!</di>

[ScepticalScotty]

910 small block??? It ain't natural I tell ye!!!

Hey JohnG is Two Wheels still going? That used to be very good. That and CycleTorque!


As I say...swings and roundabouts......

[Kev m]

Perhaps Piaggio looks at Aprilia as water-cooled Sport-Bikes and
Guzzi as air-cooled Cruisers, Standards, and Sport-Tourers

Probably don't forget "retros"...  And this is bad because we need hot sport bikes from Guzzi?  Who'd buy them?  I think that mix is about right.

Yeah, I guess the "Cruisers" are really more "retros" than anything else - and obviously some of the standards are retros. But I'm with ya.

[dgurovich]

Love the 1200 Tourer, and it might not necessarily be "wrong" for this discussion.  The Breva series brought a lot of people into the "fold" for Guzzi.  I've talked with more than one Breva owner who say that this bike was their first Guzzi.  Many were hard-core BMW riders that were looking for something with more soul but never found that "thing" that got them off the dime.  Many more were oldskool Guzzi people that had strayed away over the years because of the quality issues and spotty dealers.  The Breva was the platform that showed that Guzzi hadn't lost it's roots, could build a reliable and forward-thinking standard with it's own style -- not the "transformers" look of a KTM or Buell, but definitely not a Monster or UJM.

Don't know if a 1400 belongs in the Breva Platform as a standard -- just because you can doesn't mean you should.  I love the "balance" of my 1200 more than anything.  Fabulous brakes, seriously stable chassis and that 1200cc engine that makes you feel like the engineer on a Union Pacific "Big Boy".  I don't know if more ponies would give me "more" bike.  I'm seriously wondering if the different torque characteristics of the 8v motor will change the bike for the worse!

[troyhamilton]

ya gotta admit I was close on the name. you can bet that I have thought of building a vw based motorcycle. I ince had freind who told me of a kit to link a vw motor with a bmw or guzzi trans. do'nt worry aint gutting my guzzi.