To MGNOC, or not to MGNOC, the threadfest

[swalker]

The way I see it, there is a real problem facing the club right now.  I believe there is a small report from Frank in the April issue that states membership numbers had tumbled dramatically over the past few years,from there highs of the late 90s.   However, he said that just over the last few months the number of memberships have been climbing, still a long way from the high water mark, but headed in the right direction.   That's great for the club, and I hope it continues, but I fear it won't.

Not having a paper issue has and does turn off a lot of people, I don't like it either, but I do understand the thinking behind it.  Now at the risk of getting flamed by the faithful, ( I have noticed in the past anyone who dares to criticize the club gets jumped on hard by those who feel it's sacrilegious to do so) I'm going to address what I feel that real problem is.

What does a prospective new member get out of a membership?  He gets an on line monthly mag that on occasion is pretty weak on content (and yes I have contributed at least two articles to the MGNOC over the years of my membership).   A couple stickers, and the best part as I see it, the knowing that he is supporting the brand and people who share a passion for these wonderfull bikes.   That is it.    I'm a member primarily for the last reason.   I don't read the digital mag very closely, I'll scan it for anything that looks interesting, but I certainly don't read it cover to cover like I used to when it came in the mail.    I think that's a big problem.   There are a lot of folks who are just going to say, "it's not worth it, I don't get anything tangible from a membership".    A person can find out where all the Guzzi gatherings and rallies are without being a member.   I personally know several guys who used to be MGNOC members but who have let their memberships laps because they said to me, "why should I?", or "yea, I probably should be a member again, but you know now that there is no magazine, why spend the money?

I'm not saying that  this perspective is right or wrong, I am saying that I think it is and will be the opinion of many current and potential members unless something is changed.   I bring this up, because I don't want to see the club fade away.   I  think Frank needs to figure out a way to offer more to the club members if he wants to keep it viable.   And before someone pokes me in the eye and says, "well if you are so dam smart bad Chad, what's your great idea?"   I don't have one, I wish I did, I'd share it with Frank if I could.   But pretending that all is great with the club and always will be is in my opinion burying ones head in the sand.

   Hi chad,
I appreciate all the thoughts on the club from everyone. I didn't want to start the thread to cause any arguments. And so far so good. Without out the MGNOC, do you think people will just continue to carry on with their rallies? With no online newsletter for information, do you think we can get all the info we want off google? I don't know. I myself haven't had anyone ask me why they should continue with the club. I know some have quit sending in dues because they simply don't use a computer and don't want to.. That is fine, there was certainly a time when I didn't think I would ever mess with one either. But I also remember hearing lots of rants and raving because we did not have an online newsletter. We got that and now we hear "Why should I".
   Most people that go to a guzzi rally are not going to support the club. They go because over the years they have met some really good people and have became friends with them. I also know people that have quit riding other brands and picked up Guzzi's. I also think that the majority of state reps that take time away to put on a rally do it because #1  they are a rep for the MGNOC, and #2 because they have enjoyed what it brought them for doing so. And I am sure there are other reasons too.
I am thankful as a state rep that I don't need to ask the question.....Why should I... Maybe one day people will quit coming to ours here in Arkansas...I don't know....But we hope not.
Steve

[Tom]

One of the things not mentioned is that almost all of the alternate MG websites are maintained and established by MGNOC members.  

[flip]

I haven't taken part in any club stuff yet but I did join MGNOC a couple of months ago.  ;-T

[Dave Swanson]

In my humble opinion everyone who owns a Guzzi, or even smiles when they see one go by should belong to MGNOC. 

[twhitaker]

I haven't taken part in any club stuff yet but I did join MGNOC a couple of months ago.  ;-T

Guzzis in the Blue Ridge Rally early August.  ;-T

[tomsp]

I joined MGNOC in2005 I think. Then let the membership expire. I did go to one official rally in CA at bodega bay which was great.  I bought two guzzis recently and joined up again.

I have the patch on my jacket ;-T

[Atlanta Guzzi]

The Wildgoose Forum is the official sanctioned website for the MGNOC.  Frank told Luap or Luap told Frank that the forum would work and link it through the MGNOC website.  IIRC Anyone can correct me if they want to.

Maybe things have changed in recent years...but I understood that wildguzzi and the MGNOC are two separate entities.  Frank Wedge created the MGNOC a long long time ago, and Luap created wildguzzi maybe within the past 10 years.  Several MGNOC members might frequent this discussion board, but a link to the MGNOC site is the only connection I believe these two things have in common.

Personally, I believe the separation is a good thing.  

[Carlo DeSantis]

Seems like the questions being asked in this thread (and a similar one currently running on WG) have to do with the value and viability of MGNOC as a club as it is currently structured.

The questioners seem to be saying that the current structure doesn't suit a fair number of long-timers and may not be attractive to sufficient numbers of prospective members.

The answerers seem to be defending the status quo.

All involved seem to have the best interests of the marque and its admirers at heart.  The real issue would appear to be to get all involved onto the same page.  And no, I don't have a solution ready to fill the void.  I'm better at questions than answers; might be an occupational habit on my part.

Rather than trying to decide whether it's appropriate to keep patching holes to keep the ship afloat, perhaps it's time to seek dry-dock for a refit.  Maybe take a look at what other clubs are offering and doing well that could be adapted to MGNOC.  I truly don't think that we are all that different than riders of many other marques -- at least if we look at a cross-section of the riders.

All that said, and keeping with my stated bias to questions, I ask, "What isn't MGNOC doing for you?  What are other clubs offering that MGNOC isn't?  Any specific suggestions to improve MGNOC with the thought to grow the membership?"

And now to resume my seat at the periphery of the campfire . . .

Carlo (who still has his MGNOC number, but hasn't re-upped for a couple of years)

[Carlo DeSantis]

And after posting the above, I read the last crop of replies to the "Paging Frank Wedge" thread and find that maybe my words above are redundant to what many others have said in that thread.

Then again, maybe redundant is good if it suggests that we are more of a mind than not.

OK, NOW I'll get to the periphery . . .

No, really . . .

Carlo

[racergary]

Thanks guys.......all this talk has reminded me that I first joined MGNOC 40 years ago this coming July

   My longest continuing membership in anything cept for the club of the working man and those dues have nearly killed me keeping the IRS happy.

[krglorioso]

MGNOC doesn't have a forum that I'm aware of nor any manpower to support one. Wild Guzzi fulfills that need without any real agenda. It doesn't take Guzzi owner long to find the MGNOC web site and look up rallies plus many MGNOC functions seems to get covered here so I think there's a good synergy between the two.

My sentiments, exactly.  I also own and use regularly a Yamaha and a Suzuki, both 1000cc sport bikes, but the Guzzi Stone Touring is the "keeper" of the lot.  I am an MGNOC member and have no intention of leaving that group.  I also am very grateful to and respectful of Luap and the WGCMG site which brings us Guzzisti together for mutual assistance and camaraderie.  The two nicely compliment one another.

[Chet Rugg]

I don't belong to anything but I do belong to MGNOC .
If the dues break me I was already broke. ;)

You guys paid attention to how healthy Frank is?
He will probably out live most who bitch about him ;D

[Dwight Sisk]

I've always told myself that it's easy to get interested in something but staying interested is a different matter. I see Frank Wedge as a long term interest person and he has proven that. He's put more miles on Guzzi's than I ever will. He has exerted himself in the club like no one else. Sometimes the most critical people are those that not only haven't done anything nor will they and ultimately change interests. I think some of these simply are in it for "ME" and the moment rather than support something that requires decades of support. So my hat is off to not only Frank but anyone who stays interested.
I joined MGNOC as a life member because I didn't want to be bothered with renewing all the time, I was very excited about Guzzi and I knew my money was going to help support someone/something who I felt had something that I wanted to support. Think of this, HOG is big and popular though I'm not a member and probably won't be but it's big and popular. Perhaps the MGNOC is what it is because most involved are in the giving frame of mind in stead of getting. My problem with the Harley brand (btw I love Harleys, have one) is I don't like the "I'm better than you" attitude/ego that many have. Not everyone is like this but I don't see this ego with Guzzi. Sure, I see pride in the Guzzi ownership but to elevate oneself and look down on others because of the bike you own...come on. So I think it's refreshing to see something different. BUT HOG is big and popular!!
I made a suggestion to Frank once about having mileage awards that recognize smaller goals i.e. 25,000, 50,000 instead of only the 100,000. He said something that is very thought provoking..."It cost money". He's right. Any and every idea cost thought, planning, effort, time, money, production, handling, promotion. Who's lap is this further cost going to fall into? Thank you Frank for not only what you do but what I know you will do within the bounds of these costs. One thing is for sure he has stayed interested. ;-T

[Wayne Orwig]

I've always told myself that it's easy to get interested in something but staying interested is a different matter.

I can't begin to count the number of times that someone new (typically a non-MGNOC member) has come to me and told me that we need to do this, or that , or have rides, or have meetings, or whatever. I ask them if they have any ideas or can help, and the answer is typically a flat NO, or that they don't have the time. Those people also usually don't have a Guzzi a year or two later.
Did they sell the Guzzi because we didn't have enough events for them, or because they have a short attention span and just like to move around. I suspect it is the later, but the outward and visible part is that we aren't doing enough for them.

I try to have rides, year long events, at least one campout. But less then 10% of the Georgia MGNOC members care to participate. That happens to be a very very tiny group. If I submit an idea to the group for an event, I am lucky if I get even one reply.

What is the answer? I sure don't have a clue. But one thing is certain, if some newby walks up and tells me I need to do things for HIM, I am not going to jump. On the other hand, if they walked up with ideas and THEY wanted to help see them through, then I'm listening. But that doesn't happen often, if ever.

[Guzzi-Guy]

The situation here is that the MGNOC is a privately owned company.  Because of this it is up to the owner(s) of this company to keep their product relevant and saleable to us the consumer of this product.  Is it our responsibility to do so?  Not sure of the answer to that question.  But I do know that Frank has to figure out how to make this work or else it will die.  That my friends is the plain truth.

[sign216]

What's the problem with MGNOC? 

I read this month's newsletter and I'm happy.  A list of rallies, a tips section, and relevant advertising and rider stories.  I joined mainly to have the nationwide list of "rescuers" in case I breakdown in the hinterlands.  That's worth the price right there.

I don't see a problem with MGNOC.  It meets my expectations.

[Mark West]

If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?

Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?

My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.

It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it.

For me, that is enough to be a member.

[hidn45]

Hello all-

Maybe it's my perspective as a newbie (just joined MGNOC literally days ago), or my fresh interest in the marque, fueled by the fact that I've gotten to ride to work 2 days in a row now, finally, but my take on the Club so far is this.  For the market segment that Guzzi has, our Owner's Club seems downright vibrant.  

When we got back into bikes, we rode a Suzuki for a couple years before we met Benedetta.  I never heard about a Suzuki owner's group (although I guess there is one), even while frequenting Suzuki-specific forums.  If I had sought them out & pursued it, would there have been 2 or 3 rallies within a good day's ride of me?   Highly unlikely.  Do the members of that group fondly remember their evenings around a campfire, building lifelong relationships with like-minded folk from far & wide & all walks of life?  I doubt it.  Would a Suzuki rider from the Netherlands come over & have a built-in, coast-to-coast network of helping hands & places to stay (I'm assuming many/ most of those who have helped are members....) for a tour of our great country?    No, I say, NO!  For the size of the Guzzi contingent, I'd say it's a pretty active & committed group.  Maybe it's the size that makes it that way, but I think it's more about the quality, not the quantity.

Can I get all that without joining MGNOC?  Mostly, other than the contact directory, which service Wildgoose Chase can & does provide an acceptible substitute for if the club weren't here.  Would all the above exist without MGNOC?  Possibly, but I wouldn't think so.  What does a HOG member get for his or her annual fee?

It's early yet, but so far we're pleased with what we're getting from our national organization - prompt, personal, friendly service & the promise of good things to come - much like what we are getting here in the Wildgoose forum.  I've paid a lot more & gotten a lot less.....

randy & lois

Keep your knees in the breeze.

[JohninVT`]

I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't.  I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes.  I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally.  I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me."  I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time.  I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.   

[bad Chad]

If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?

Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?

My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.

It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it.  For me, that is enough to be a member.

I love to attend Guzzi rallys!   But have you looked around at who attends these things.  Far and away, mostly gray hairs!    I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys?    That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.

[dilligaf]

What's the problem with MGNOC? 

I read this month's newsletter and I'm happy.  A list of rallies, a tips section, and relevant advertising and rider stories.  I joined mainly to have the nationwide list of "rescuers" in case I breakdown in the hinterlands.  That's worth the price right there.

I don't see a problem with MGNOC.  It meets my expectations.

+1  We do not have a problem. 
Matt

[racergary]

    Back in the day when I attend my first Guzzi rally I was one of the youngest being only 22 (I could still pass for 16) ,lot of grey hair around then.
   Most of my peers were not into rally's let alone an old man's bike like a Guzzi,I can still remember the awkward air there was when I showed up the first time were my peers hung out on my Ambo.........one nitwit thought it wasn't bad but needed more chrome,lot more.
    I remember my grey haired dealer wouldn't take me serious as a buyer,remember I could pass for 16,what changed his mind was when I brought in a cash deposit.

[Mark West]

If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?

Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?

My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.

It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it.  For me, that is enough to be a member.

I love to attend Guzzi rallys!   But have you looked around at who attends these things.  Far and away, mostly gray hairs!    I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys?    That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.

People seem to come to Guzzi's later in life perhaps when they are more mature. That process will continue and doesn't require attracting 20 somethings. They need to sow their wild oats and some of them will discover guzzi when they are ready just as many current guzzi riders have. At that point they probably won't mind the more mature crowds found at Guzzi rallies.

[rocker59]

I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't.  I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes.  I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally.  I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me."  I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time.  I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.   

You're not wrong about the age range.  You're not wrong about the majority of bikes ridden to the events.

However, there are people riding newer bikes and spine frame bikes and small block bikes.

Think of it as a Guzzi-oriented destination, or half-way point, on a weekend ride.  That's what I decided to do.

Although I'm always one of the youngest in attendance, the campouts/rallies are always a great place to end up while out riding one of my Guzzis.

There are a few people who hang around the campground all day, but mostly people will head out on Saturday Mornings and be gone all day riding.  Guzzi gatherings are more about riding than about hanging out and staring at bikes.  I've been on some great lunch rides when attending Guzzi campout rallies.  Last weekend, Carl Allison, Turkey Creek Dave, Marcia and I had a great little twisty backroads lunch ride.  Me on my Nero Corsa, they on thier V7s.

I know distance may be an issue for you, being up in Vermont, but you should try some Guzzi events.  They don't ask for your membership card at the door.  All are welcome.

[rocker59]

I love to attend Guzzi rallys!   But have you looked around at who attends these things.  Far and away, mostly gray hairs!    I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys?    That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.

What you say is probably true, but what would you suggest?

 

[JohninVT`]

I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't.  I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes.  I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally.  I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me."  I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time.  I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.   

You're not wrong about the age range.  You're not wrong about the majority of bikes ridden to the events.

However, there are people riding newer bikes and spine frame bikes and small block bikes.

Think of it as a Guzzi-oriented destination, or half-way point, on a weekend ride.  That's what I decided to do.

Although I'm always one of the youngest in attendance, the campouts/rallies are always a great place to end up while out riding one of my Guzzis.

There are a few people who hang around the campground all day, but mostly people will head out on Saturday Mornings and be gone all day riding.  Guzzi gatherings are more about riding than about hanging out and staring at bikes.  I've been on some great lunch rides when attending Guzzi campout rallies.  Last weekend, Carl Allison, Turkey Creek Dave, Marcia and I had a great little twisty backroads lunch ride.  Me on my Nero Corsa, they on thier V7s.

I know distance may be an issue for you, being up in Vermont, but you should try some Guzzi events.  They don't ask for your membership card at the door.  All are welcome.

What you say makes sense.  I don't mind riding anywhere as long as I have the time and money.  It's just that I don't want to make plans, re-arrange my work schedule and ride a long way just to listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats and how all Moto Guzzis since Piaggio took over suck.  

With my limited time off in the summer, I want to spend it doing positive things with positive people.  Maybe I'll try hitting some of the closer day events and keep an open mind.  Thanks.  

[rocker59]

I don't want to make plans, re-arrange my work schedule and ride a long way just to listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats and how all Moto Guzzis since Piaggio took over suck.  

 

But you don't have to.  Just like on WG, there are several different "groups" who attend.  Some show up to just sit around and drink beer and eat steel-cut oats.  Some want to talk about the glory of the Loop Frame.  Some don't want to talk at all.  Some just want to ride.  

For me it's about riding and eating and seeing cool things along the way.  And, I actually enjoy occasionally sleeping in a tent...

Here's an example for you:

I had spent very little time in Kansas.  Never really saw the point.  Other than I-70 and I-35, I hadn't experienced any of it.  Well, a couple years ago, I decided to join Michael D and make a ride up to the Kansas Campout in Council Grove.  What a neat little town.  Ate dinner at The Hays House ( hayshouse.com ), checked out some cool Santa Fe Trail history, and found a couple of twisty backroads I didn't think would exist!  350 miles up, eat, camp (at a nice place on a lake), 350 miles back.  Nice way to spend a weekend on a Guzzi.  And now I know that there is much to see in Kansas!

2009 Ride Report Link:  http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=26464.0

[Luap McKeever]

The Wildgoose Forum is the official sanctioned website for the MGNOC.  Frank told Luap or Luap told Frank that the forum would work and link it through the MGNOC website.  IIRC Anyone can correct me if they want to.

Maybe things have changed in recent years...but I understood that wildguzzi and the MGNOC are two separate entities.  Frank Wedge created the MGNOC a long long time ago, and Luap created wildguzzi maybe within the past 10 years.  Several MGNOC members might frequent this discussion board, but a link to the MGNOC site is the only connection I believe these two things have in common.

Personally, I believe the separation is a good thing.  

Correct.  Frank asked me to maintain mgnoc after wildguzzi.com was already online, and I said ok.  I think it was 1998 when I first started wildguzzi, and about 1999 when I began maintaining mgnoc.  At that time, wildguzzi was just pictures and tips mainly and the discussion board (old html feedback style) on the mgnoc site just plain sucked and was down daily.  I asked Frank what he thought we should do and he said just pull it because he was tired of the complaints anyway.  I told him there were probably 100 people (at that time) that used it religiously and that I would probably put something on wildguzzi temporarily to see how it went, and he said go for it, and here we are today.

There's still a lot of members here that used the old discussion board back then.  Funny really.  Wildguzzi started as a way to just see photos of Guzzis and share some tips with a limit of 20MB per month.  Now, we move 20MB a minute on a slow day ;D

[swalker]

If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?

Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?

My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.

It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it.  For me, that is enough to be a member.

I love to attend Guzzi rallys!   But have you looked around at who attends these things.  Far and away, mostly gray hairs!    I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys?    That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.

   Chad, I been putting on a campout/rally for 22 years...Like I have always said, ya can't please everyone. Your comments make me wonder what you have done to make things more suitable to you. Why do you come to a Guzzi rally and spend a weekend with a bunch of grey hairs anyway? Just wondering....Have you thought about getting a different brand and attending one of their rallies? You know, something with a younger crowd....I don't know. If I think like you, I am sure I wouldn't spend time worrying about why older people ride this brand....I would get me something else. Who Knows?

[John Ulrich]

Why the concern if Frank owns "it"?  Would people expect a thick glossy magazine and free jacket & coffee cup with membership if someone else owned it?   Frank asks for ideas yearly and I doubt many send him an answer!