Author Topic: First night ride with LED headlight  (Read 16825 times)

Offline Zinfan

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2014, 02:10:58 PM »
Zinfan, the problem I see is that the low beam and the high beam aren't very different as far as where the top of the pattern is, so if I set the lamp to not bother other drivers on low beam, going to high beam won't light up more distant road much better.  I don't expect it will be a problem for me, because of the not riding at night thing.  And in city night riding, it wouldn't be a problem either, since in the city you never get to use high anyway.

I meant to measure the alternator "break even" RPM after my ride yesterday, but I forgot.  I'll try to do that soon.  I'm hoping it's down in the low 2,000 range now.  It was originally not much under 3,000.

I copied my photos over to ADVRider's Vendor's thread and the guy who sells these things says the low/hi beam behavior is normal.  I don't think any amount of adjustment is going to the the hi beam to throw farther, it just sorta fills in the center of the light pattern and a bit of the sides.  That being said I have no issues when driving pitch black roads at night on low or high so I'm ok with it now and have no plans to adjust the beam pattern from the stock settings.

Here is his reply to my post

Quote from: Off Road Ryder;24378349
Thanks for posting and the big effort to get the beam shots.
As Ive said in this thread many times, do not expect to get a bunch more distance out of this or any other bulb you can put in your stock housing.
I would say the photos show a dramatic upgrade from the stock bulb.

What you should expect is a brighter better working headlight that will allow you to see better and let other vehicles see you better.

On some bikes you do get more projection due to the design of that particular reflector, If you want distance LED Aux lights are the way to go.
Thank you again and Great Job

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2014, 02:16:39 PM »
Thanks for posting his reply.  I understand your point and agree.  I was just trying to include what I learned for guys who might be thinking of getting one, as you did before I got mine.  I'm very happy with it.  Like I said, if I need to do a substantial amount of night riding and the lack of low beam cutoff is a problem, I can temporarily install the QH bulb.  I don't expect to have to do that.
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Offline Zinfan

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2014, 02:21:23 PM »
Thanks for posting his reply.  I understand your point and agree.  I was just trying to include what I learned for guys who might be thinking of getting one, as you did before I got mine.  I'm very happy with it.  Like I said, if I need to do a substantial amount of night riding and the lack of low beam cutoff is a problem, I can temporarily install the QH bulb.  I don't expect to have to do that.

You must have had a better time of getting the protective rubber boot and metal clip back onto the new LED than I did, I have no desire to wrestle that again just to change bulbs.  I understand your concerns and I'll report back if I start getting flashed due to the LED low beam.  I work at night so half my commute is in the darkness so I have lots of opportunities to blind oncoming drivers, nothing yet after passing over 30 cars over the past few days.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2014, 02:33:45 PM »
Hmmm, the clip is a bit of a pain, but I don't remember a rubber boot.  Is it part of your existing headlight assembly, or part of the LED kit?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 02:34:46 PM by Triple Jim »
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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2014, 02:33:45 PM »

Offline Triple Jim

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H
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2014, 04:40:43 PM »
I measured the "break even" charging RPM with the LED headlight on low beam, and it's much lower than it was with the Quartz-Halogen bulb.  Break even seems to be about 1,500 RPM, and at 1,800 RPM I measured 14 volts at the battery.  The ignition coils have 5Ω primaries.  With the QH bulb and the 3Ω coils I had before, break even was something around 2,500 RPM.
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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2014, 01:06:19 PM »
What?  ???

No.......  ::)

My 2012 Threw a big warning across the dash when the low filiment blew, I got a similar warning when I had a left turn signal bulb die.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2015, 02:40:37 PM »
Update: One the two low beam LED emitters in my Cyclops 3600 lumen H4 bulb quit.  I checked for obvious problems, but it looks like a failure of the driver circuit in the little plastic housing that's in the bulb's wires.  I contacted Cyclops Adventure Sports, and got a prompt reply.  I was told that since it's a little past one year, the warranty doesn't cover it, but they're willing to sell me a new one at 1/2 price. 

I haven't decided what to do, but may ask if they'll let me put that amount toward one of their newer bulbs.  Because of Rodekyll's recent post about the Truck Lite sealed beam headlamp, I'm also considering going that route.  Another option is to wire up a generic 10W LED driver board for that LED emitter.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2015, 03:08:23 PM »
In case there was any confusion -- my photos were also taken with the aperture and shutter speed manually set -- no auto-anything.

And as a point of information -- the truck lite unit I bought has a 3-year warranty.

The truck lite does throw the high beam farther down the road, compared both to its own low beam and to the high beam of the halogen it replaced.  I think what the tech support email a few replies up was addressing is the incompatibility of the LED module to the incandescent reflector.  My beam patterns look nothing like the Cyclops pics.  Mine are well formed, sharp cutoff, and a clear shift of light between low and high.

Yes, I'm sure the difference in cost is at least partly due to the DOT compliance.  But I don't think it's fair to say DOT is 2x more expensive.  If we use DOT cost as the baseline, the inferior knockoffs are 2x 'cheaper' in every way.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2015, 05:42:11 PM »
After an email exchange with Darryl VanNieuwenhuise at Cyclops Adventure Sports, I was told that:

* Quartz-halogen bulbs normally fail in 6 months and have no warranty, so I should be OK with the LED bulb failing in a little over a year
* Their failure rate for the 3,600 lumen LED bulb I bought is less than .5%, but they won't replace mine since I bought it a little over a year ago.
* Rather than buy a Truck-Lite sealed beam bulb, I should get their $415 one: http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/7-Vortex-LED-Headlight-DOT-approved_p_98.html
* Even though their description says "Life span 30,000 hrs", that means only the emitter life, not the life of the whole bulb.

Darryl said that the design is limited by available space, so I said that the failure was in the driver module inline with the wiring, and there is plenty of room in the bucket for a better module if it has to be larger, but he said "Your bike may have plenty of room other do not. We did not design this
product for only your bike."

I explained that I'll find another place to spend money when I want LED lighting.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2015, 06:06:50 PM »
When I was researching lighting I chatted with Cyclops.  I questioned the 30,000 hour life.  They said "it lasts 30,000 CALENDAR hours assuming a 15% DUTY CYCLE."  That meant to me a total life of 30,000 hours from the production date of the element, including shelf life at the store, with a bulb ON life ~4500 hours.  I observed that it wasn't a fair way to rate a bulb.  They didn't disagree -- just dismissed it saying "all the LED mfgrs rate them that way."  Sure enough, if I read the packaging on household LED I see the large print might say "LASTS 5 YEARS" while the small print says "when used 2% of the time."  Now I find out they don't even mean the element lasts that long.  I also learned that the wattage listed is for total draw -- emitter included.  Actual power at the element is significantly less.

sleazy.  It's this sort of deceptive marketing  that will hold back what ought to be a pretty good technology.

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2015, 06:16:46 PM »
Very interesting information that I hadn't yet discovered.  It sounds like the 30,000 hours or similar ratings came from the LED manufacturers, and the companies that take the LEDs and make "bulbs" out of them by adding drivers, heat sinks, fans, etc., are trying to find a way to keep the big sounding number, but not stand behind it.

The problem I have with Cyclops and Darryl is the attitude that I should be happy with the approximately 100 hours I got from the bulb, that I'm wrong to think they could build a more robust driver module for it, and that after seeing how they don't stand behind their products very well, I should consider their $415 sealed beam bulb rather than the Truck-Lite that's well under $200 now.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 06:17:36 PM by Triple Jim »
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Offline charlie b

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2015, 06:47:40 PM »
I have not been really satisfied with the posts the Cyclops guy makes on the adv forum either.

 if mine ever gives out I'll look somewhere else, maybe even go back to halogen.  So far I'vs had mine for about six months and it is doing fine.
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2015, 07:07:25 PM »
How interesting....ther e is no free lunch.
As for regular H4 having a shelf life of 6 months-not my experience at all.  I have some going on 5 years with a fair amount of use.
Are they great lights?  No.  But they last longer than 6 months.

I've been in the aftermarket supply business for a while now and know lots of small operators like myself.  The guys I know bend over backwards to deliver a product that does what it claims with no mumbo jumbo.  I see guys like the one described here offer support and claims that I would be embarrassed to offer-and so would the other guys I know.

You're right to take your money elsewhere.  As for LED (and the new florescent) bulbs-I'm a commercial building manager by trade and I can't ever count how many of the so-called "long life" bulbs we've installed in all kinds of fixtures that have failed within 6 months of install.  At )sometimes) 10x's the price.


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Offline rodekyll

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2015, 07:13:48 PM »
I don't think this should be interpreted as an indictment of the led industry altogether.  Some offer as much as a 3-year warranty, which seems audacious, but which should give us confidence that even if we do get shorter-than-expected life from a product we can avoid throwing good money after bad.

 . . . of course that's a small comfort when the bulb craps out on a dark night in the apex of a hairpin.    :shocked:

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2015, 07:17:39 PM »
If halogen bulbs normally fail after 6 months then I must have come across some real special ones for decades now. 

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2015, 07:20:51 PM »
The whole email exchange is entertaining, but probably too long to be of interest here.  But here's an email I just got from Darryl, and  my reply:

"I feel sorry that your bulb failed prematurely, but out of warranty.  I offered a fair solution that you did not care to take us up on. Instead you came back with negativity and insults. I do appreciate the feedback.
I wish you the best.
 Regards
 
Darryl VanNieuwenhuise"

"Darryl,

You're still going on about this?  I thought it was pretty negative for
you to tell me that I probably have more CDI failures than you have LED
failures.  I thought it was negative when I mentioned that there was
room in my headlight bucket, which is a pretty typical one, for a larger
driver module, and you said:

"Your bike may have plenty of room other do not. We did not design this
product for only your bike."

I also think it is false advertising to say "Life span 30,000 hrs" and
then, after mine fails in 100 hours, to tell me "The 30,000 hr is the
emitters not the entire bulb."

When one of my customers has criticism to offer, I take it seriously and
use it to improve my products or services.  I don't remember insulting
you in any way, although as my father used to say "A person gets angry
when he knows he's wrong."

Let's drop this.  You lost at least one customer with your attitude.
Maybe you can learn from that.

-Jim"
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 07:28:21 PM by Triple Jim »
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Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2015, 08:42:15 PM »
My two concerns are:

1) Twice this week I have been heading home at 1am, in a misty rain. I have a set of 4000k HID headlights, and 6000k driving lights, on my Stelvio. I had to turn off the 6000k driving lights, because they are too blue and create too  much glare, in that foggy mist. The 4000k HID main bulbs are fine. If I had LEDs for the main headlight, I would have had trouble, since LEDs are nearly impossible to get much warmer than 6000k.

2) Tonight I am (was) doing FCC testing on an LED street light. The LED driver decided to commit suicide for no reason, after about 20 minutes. High powered LED drivers are still a work on progress IMHO.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: First night ride with LED headlight
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2015, 08:49:34 PM »
High powered LED drivers are still a work on progress IMHO.

I agree, especially the ones that are made to be very inexpensive.  I have some LED lights in my garage that were made to be street lights and ended up on the surplus market.  Each one has ten one-watt LEDs with a driver circuit on the board.  They're very well made, and I mounted them on large heat sinks.  They've been running 12-16 hours/day for several years now, with no problems.  Sometimes making the product as inexpensive as possible goes too far, and as mentioned above, might end up giving the whole product group a bad name.
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