Looking at Le Mans Mk1 Project

[swooshdave]

I'm looking at this bike. Engine is out and I haven't seen it so I don't know how apart it is. "Parts are all there" but we know how that goes, if they aren't on the bike you will never know.

The big question: How much to offer for it? I tried to trade a Porsche 914 for it and he wouldn't go for it.  ;D

[swooshdave]

The Airhead went down the road on it's side. I'm putting it in the "No Thanks" category.

[swooshdave]

I'm just looking for some sort of guideline from the experts.

[canuck750]

I would work backwards from what a bike in concourse condition would be worth and how much it would take to get this bike to that shape. Top dollar for a restored MK1 Le Mans is probably $16 ~ $20K. This bike has been apart at least once, obviously the frame has been painted, ditto the wheels. Mechanical condition? missing parts? A full mechanical rebuild of the engine, transmission, rear drive, carbs, brakes etc.. can easily pass $6K, then there are the cosmetics, what happened to the tank that the cast Moto Guzzi script is gone? the mounting recess has been filled in and the tank repainted. My guess is that bike will take at least $10K to get it to top condition so I would peg the value at $6K absolute tops. If you can and want to do the restoration yourself then $6K may be a good buy. Something tells me that the seller thinks that he is in possession of a much more valuable bike.

I try to buy the absolute worst example I can find or the very best. Buy a wreck and at least you know that everything will be rebuilt or replaced and budget accordingly. Alternately buy an original bike with known history, in good cosmetic condition and just mechanically restore it.

[swooshdave]

Good stuff!

I wondered about the decal on the tank. I think I've seen them before in pics. Were they used on the earliest bikes? It has the Series 1 taillight. I don't know what the serial number means, is this one of the bikes that the distributor had to make the numbers match? I wish I could have gotten a look at the engine.

[crc]

also make sure it is a lm motor with correct top end

[canuck750]

Every picture I have seen of a LeMans MK 1 has the cast 'Moto Guzzi' tank emblems. Perhaps the tank was damaged, repainted and the rectangular recess and pin holes were bondo filled or the tank is from a V7 Sport or a reproduction. The engine serial number and the serial number stamped on the ID tag should match if it is a US or Canadian distributed bike.

It is probably an original Series 1 Mk 1 LeMans but there are certainly clones out there, the seat, rear fender, side panels, tank and bikini fairing are all reproduced. Make certain it's an original before you commit. The 180mm triple clamp with the steering damper is correct, same with the bars and controls. Dash has been messed with, foot rests missing boot guards, no exhaust in the pictures, switches and ignition missing in the pictures.

[swooshdave]

http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2013-06-01/motorcycle/1979-motto-guzzi-850-le-mans-mk-ii.aspx

Could it be MkII tank like this one or is it not stock either.

[Aaron D.]

Fork caps are wrong. Also obviously the frame has been painted, so the tag has been off..what is the date on the tag anyway?

Engine number is key.

[Cheese]

071829?

[Rich A]

I'd say $2500, $3000 tops. If you put $5000 into a rebuild, even doing a lot of the work yourself, I'd guesstimate that you'd have a $6-7000 bike. But the prices of these things are increasing.

Rich A

[fotoguzzi]

Agree with Rich.. I wouldn't spend over $3k for it. probably less even unless the motor looks perfect.

[swooshdave]

I'm very fearful having not seen the engine. I could get in over my head pretty fast.

I will say I've only seen a few Le Mans and I'm shocked at how small they are.

[swooshdave]

071829?

Yes.

Doesn't that put it at the end of the Mk I? Or at the end of the Series 1?

[PeteS]

I'd say $2500, $3000 tops. If you put $5000 into a rebuild, even doing a lot of the work yourself, I'd guesstimate that you'd have a $6-7000 bike. But the prices of these things are increasing.

Rich A

+2. I might consider selling mine for 20K though. 8)

Pete

[blackcat]

I'd spend $5K. And you don't have to bring it back to perfect shape in one big project, especially if you intend to ride the bike. Just fix the engine, go through the electrics and put that bike back together. Hell, that alone will increase the value and if you don't like it then sell it as is; I can't imagine you would loose any money on the deal providing you don't dump too many funds into the engine.

[oldbike54]

Dave , now you understand why I was asking about the beemer . The experts have suggested a range of $2,000 to
$6,000  ;D How much does the seller think his stuff is worth ?

  Dusty

[swooshdave]

Dave , now you understand why I was asking about the beemer . The experts have suggested a range of $2,000 to
$6,000  ;D How much does the seller think his stuff is worth ?

  Dusty

Nothing else was offered for sale. The only reason the Guzzi was up for discussion is because I've been pursuing it. So I don't have a good reference. But he's getting too old to ride a Le Mans and knows he'll never get to it.

[dsrdave]

The early round tailight bikes are the most desirable.  They did not have the boot guards.  There are a lot of minor differeces between the first and second gen 850 Lemans.

[swooshdave]

From what I have gathered the only way to know if it's real is by the engine serial number? Is there an issue with restamped numbers? Or is that not talked about?

[Chuck in Indiana]

From what I have gathered the only way to know if it's real is by the engine serial number? Is there an issue with restamped numbers? Or is that not talked about?

Well, it's certainly easy enough to do. These aren't the highest tech data plates known to man.. <shrug>

[swooshdave]

Well, it's certainly easy enough to do. These aren't the highest tech data plates known to man.. <shrug>

Does anyone have a picture of the engine serial number on this type of engine?

[Morizzi]

Numbers have been discussed before:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=23931.5;wap2

[canuck750]

This is the stamping on a V7 Sport, the V and the K are a larger font size than the numbers, note the random stamping of the stars before and after the engine number



Courtesy of This Old Tractor - identifying frame numbers:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_technical_moto-guzzi-frame-numbers.htm

Blank reproduction frame tags and rivets are available from several sources, the stamp dies are also readily available so an unscrupulous seller could reproduce a frame tag. I f the frame tag look new then it may well be new, ie a re-stamp.

[swooshdave]

As you can see the frame plate does not look new.

[Cam3512]

Engine number should begin with a "VE".  I recently bought an 850 LeMans (series 2) with a higher number like this one.  It's a US imported bike.

[mantaray]

91xxx is ok for a mk1
saturday i am looking at  920xx range nr , also 1.1



the tacho on "your bike" is 1.2, early tacho's reading till 8.000rpm ( in europe)
speedo is 1.1

[swooshdave]

91xxx is ok for a mk1
saturday i am looking at  920xx range nr , also 1.1



the tacho on "your bike" is 1.2, early tacho's reading till 8.000rpm ( in europe)
speedo is 1.1

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_technical_moto-guzzi-frame-numbers.htm

There is a list of changes on this page. I'm not sure where the 1.2 change happened. Tach apparently changed at 12500.

[PeteS]

I think its a pretty safe bet it started life as a LeMans. That ID plate looks original. If the engine number matches the plate that should confirm it. I still wouldn't pay big bucks for it though.

Pete

[youcanrunnaked]

I would work backwards from what a bike in concourse condition would be worth and how much it would take to get this bike to that shape. Top dollar for a restored MK1 Le Mans is probably $16 ~ $20K....

A correct Mk I Series I LeMans (assuming that's really what this is), is NOT a $16,000 - $20,000 bike.  Maybe in another ten years, but not today.  It's a $10,000 bike; maybe $12,000 if all-original -- which this one will never again be.