Author Topic: Stranded again... suggestions  (Read 16637 times)

Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Stranded again... suggestions
« on: September 02, 2015, 07:25:02 PM »
Well, it did it to me again today!  Coming home from work on a 92 degree day on my '08 1200 Sport.  Stopped at a store to pick up something. I come out , turn the key, dash lights come on, needles do their dance, I press the starter button, and nothing. I hear the fuel pump in the gas tank humm. 

I rode it many time since and it always started.

16 days earlier, on  a 88 degree day, same thing... come out to start it after a quick stop at a store and nothing! Did not turn over.  After waiting 50 minutes, it finally decided to start. And I rode home.

So I thought... kill button is off, ignition on, neutral, kickstand up and nothing. It's like I'm not even pressing the starter button. OK "Wait 50 minutes and maybe it will start", I thought.  In the meantime, I checked connections and fuses. It didn't do anything when I pressed the starter until the 50 minute mark... and then it started!!!

Anybody have any ideas why twice now it had to sit for 50 minutes before starting.
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 07:38:06 PM »
I had a Bassa that did just that.. I traded out all the relays and never had a problem again.. but the relays were Siemens brand and know to be troublesome in that era I'd think your bike is beyond that but never know..

Have you checked battery connections and main ground to frame? it's a better ground if you can put it to the engine.
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 07:43:14 PM »
And you already did the 'Startus Interrupptuss' deal?
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Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 07:45:51 PM »
No, haven't done that yet.

Someone else that I called mentioned the ground wire. I will look into that as well. Thanks.  Any other suggestions?
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 07:45:51 PM »

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 07:58:21 PM »
No, haven't done that yet.

Someone else that I called mentioned the ground wire. I will look into that as well. Thanks.  Any other suggestions?
See PM.  But just do the kit.  For some reason, my 1200 Sport had this start/no start issue until I installed the 'startus interruptus' kit from MPH.  I have one in reserve just in case the Griso starts doing the same thing, but so far, at 10,000 miles, Griso starts just fine all the time.  BTW, 1200S is about to turn 60 (that's 60k miles) and going strong!

Bob
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:59:00 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 08:11:59 PM »
Agree, put on the kit.  I never had an issue, but I put on the kit, and now I don't worry about it.

See PM.  But just do the kit.  For some reason, my 1200 Sport had this start/no start issue until I installed the 'startus interruptus' kit from MPH.  I have one in reserve just in case the Griso starts doing the same thing, but so far, at 10,000 miles, Griso starts just fine all the time.  BTW, 1200S is about to turn 60 (that's 60k miles) and going strong!

Bob

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 08:20:29 PM »
Not a matter of IF it's a matter of when.
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 08:39:24 PM »
Roll your own, just cut the yellow wire a few inches from relay item (3) and power it from a new fuse at the battery

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2007_Norge.gif

I don't think it is related to temperature but the dash may be stopping it because it sees low Voltage although I would expect it not to prime in that case.
Did you happen to notice the battery Voltage indicated by the dash?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 08:46:07 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 12:35:07 AM »
  Rub ashes upon your head before trying to kickstart it.
Sasquatch Jim        Humanoid, sort of.

Offline Tom

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 03:39:47 AM »
Hey!  What 'da hell are you drinking out there?  :grin:
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Online Kev m

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 05:30:12 AM »
Again, my former 06 B11 never had the problem AGAIN once I installed the Startus Interrupts fix.
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Offline twodogs

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 05:32:59 AM »
Hey Willow, check your ground behind the starter cover, its easy to check with only 2 screws, mine was loose and when I went to tighten it there was the dreaded ain't going to tighten up so I put in a Helicoil and have not had a problem sence :thumb:
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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 06:01:02 AM »
Mate, you've been given heaps of advice on the problem and how to solve it yet you continue to do take no action and then be amazed that it happens again.

With the greatest of respect it ISN't going to fix itself magically by complaining on the Internet. Either one of the two solutions suggested, the 'Plug In' Startus Interuptus kit or the wiring mod will almost certainly cure the problem permanently. Just do it. Stop flapping like a fish on a pier.

Pete

Offline Dilliw

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 08:19:00 AM »

I don't think it is related to temperature but the dash may be stopping it because it sees low Voltage although I would expect it not to prime in that case.
Did you happen to notice the battery Voltage indicated by the dash?

I do think there is some sort of link to temperature at least with my EV.  All of the times it has done have been bright sunny days including 3 different times on my Aug trip.  And I watched Manfredo's Stelvio do it after a pretty long stretch in high heat where he had cut it off then tried to start it up again.  But who knows!

I went with the level 1 fix, a 20A fuse to replace the the stock 15A,and it hasn't done it since.  If it does happen again at least I know to wait a minute, cuss a lot, hit all the switches a few times, put the side stand up and down a few times, and eventually the magic will reappear. 
George Westbury
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2015, 08:25:02 AM »
I do think there is some sort of link to temperature at least with my EV.  All of the times it has done have been bright sunny days including 3 different times on my Aug trip.  And I watched Manfredo's Stelvio do it after a pretty long stretch in high heat where he had cut it off then tried to start it up again.  But who knows!

I went with the level 1 fix, a 20A fuse to replace the the stock 15A,and it hasn't done it since.  If it does happen again at least I know to wait a minute, cuss a lot, hit all the switches a few times, put the side stand up and down a few times, and eventually the magic will reappear.

I was having intermittent start failures on my EV.  It was usually when the bike was warm and I was at a gas station.  Too much noise for me to hear whether the fuel pump was priming.  Finally it dies when I am out for a ride at Cedar Vale.  Found out the fuses were corroded.  The fuel pump primed when the fuse was pressed on.  I've replaced the fuses and sprayed some contact cleaner/lube in the fuse holders. 

Not had this problem since.  It drove me crazy to figure it out. 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:25:55 AM by LowRyter »
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Offline boatdetective

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2015, 08:27:05 AM »
Mate, you've been given heaps of advice on the problem and how to solve it yet you continue to do take no action and then be amazed that it happens again.

With the greatest of respect it ISN't going to fix itself magically by complaining on the Internet. Either one of the two solutions suggested, the 'Plug In' Startus Interuptus kit or the wiring mod will almost certainly cure the problem permanently. Just do it. Stop flapping like a fish on a pier.

Pete

 :1:  Happened to me. I looked up the fix and had it rewired in well under an hour. Sound advice is useless unless followed- which in turn wastes the time of those giving the advice.

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Marblehead, MA

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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2015, 08:29:34 AM »
When you press the starter button, is there a faint 'click' under the seat? If you have a faint click, but not start, you have the 'startus interruptus'. Adding a jumper is easy. Or adding the kit is easy if electrically challenged.

Yes it can be heat related. It can be cold related. It can be related to the moon phases. The power to the solenoid is too marginal. Anything in the path, connectors, ignition switch, sticky solenoid, even a weak fuse, can keep it from pulling the solenoid.

Even if that is not the issue, the kit install is a smart thing. Get it, or learn to bump start it.

Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline Dilliw

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2015, 08:34:54 AM »
When you press the starter button, is there a faint 'click' under the seat? If you have a faint click, but not start, you have the 'startus interruptus'. Adding a jumper is easy. Or adding the kit is easy if electrically challenged.

Yes it can be heat related. It can be cold related. It can be related to the moon phases. The power to the solenoid is too marginal. Anything in the path, connectors, ignition switch, sticky solenoid, even a weak fuse, can keep it from pulling the solenoid.

Even if that is not the issue, the kit install is a smart thing. Get it, or learn to bump start it.

O.k. so when it did it in the parking lot of Bogarts it was August 1st and August 1st was a full moon.

Just sayin...
George Westbury
Austin, TX
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2015, 09:27:47 AM »
Also I had a tip over switch that caused the same symptoms for me. Had done the startus interuptous fix but was still having it happen. Was told the tip over switch doesn't kill the motor, only won't let it start. Bumping it around helped a couple times but I put a fused start button between the battery + and the starter solenoid and that was my fail safe. Note, it was hard to tell, but when mine did it I could not hear a click from the starter relay. So I don't think that was main culprit. YMMV

Offline Jurgen

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2015, 10:39:59 AM »
Biking Sailer hit the nail on the head.  If the instruments do their dance and you hear the fuel pump, then more than likely the culprit is somewhere in the starter supply circuit.  Instead of waiting 50 min. to get the thing to turn over (biking sailer put in a fused external starter switch) simply take a screwdriver and short between the little wire on the starter solenoid and the BIG terminal on the solenoid and the starter will turn, guaranteed!  The engine will start unless one of the safety features like the big red switch or the side stand keeps the ignition off. 
Jurgen

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2015, 11:29:58 AM »
OP, it can be harrowing to cut any wires so do yourself a huge favor, order the little kit from MPH and when it doesn't start, plug that in. Takes seconds. If it still doesn't start you'll know you have a problem elsewhere.

The kit isn't the always solution but it is one you should have with you, like a piece of Velcro and a $100 bill tightly folded in your wallet.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:30:45 AM by Norge Pilot »

Offline ITSec

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2015, 02:59:30 PM »
If we all just applied the concept of Occam's Razor to troubleshooting Guzzis, we'd spend a lot more time riding and a lot less time fixing...  :grin:
ITSecurity
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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2015, 05:08:15 PM »
If we all just applied the concept of Occam's Razor to troubleshooting Guzzis, we'd spend a lot more time riding and a lot less time fixing...  :grin:

 Speak the truth brother , speak it  :bow: Elegance and simplicity rule  :thumb:

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Offline ITSec

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2015, 07:13:46 PM »
Speak the truth brother , speak it  :bow: Elegance and simplicity rule  :thumb:

  Dusty

And as Sherlock said - "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

Installing simple fixes for known weaknesses makes the problems they cause impossible - and leaves you more time to consider the improbable!
ITSecurity
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2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

oldbike54

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2015, 07:18:05 PM »
And as Sherlock said - "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

Installing simple fixes for known weaknesses makes the problems they cause impossible - and leaves you more time to consider the improbable!

 Hmm , Sherlock , always thought that was Will Rogers  :laugh:

  Dusty

canuguzzi

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2015, 07:21:08 PM »
And as Sherlock said - "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

Installing simple fixes for known weaknesses makes the problems they cause impossible - and leaves you more time to consider the improbable!

Everyone knows it was Spock who said that. :boozing:

Offline ITSec

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2015, 07:25:18 PM »
Everyone knows it was Spock who said that. :boozing:

Well, Holmes did have pointed ears.

Spock, on the other hand, was a Trotskyite  :evil:
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2015, 07:36:00 PM »
Well, Holmes did have pointed ears.

Spock, on the other hand, was a Trotskyite  :evil:

 Always thought he was Vulcan , the home of Vulcanizing .

  Dusty

Offline ITSec

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2015, 07:48:20 PM »
Always thought he was Vulcan , the home of Vulcanizing .

  Dusty

Since I'm a rabid left-winger, I keep track of such things  :azn:

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" (paraphrased from Jeremy Bentham) is just a step to "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"! (BTW, the latter is a good motto for a forum like this  :laugh: )

And to quote a couple of Aussies from the Philosophy Department - "John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,  on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill"!!!
ITSecurity
2012 Griso 8v SE - Tenni Green
2013 Stelvio NTX - Copper
2008 Norge GT - Silver

I am but mad north-northwest!
When the wind is southerly, I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: Stranded again... suggestions
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2015, 08:05:16 PM »
You got startus interruptus dude, no use fighting it. ambient temp or how far you ride has nothing to do with anything...  Just do the fix, dead easy.... and it will solve the problem forever.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
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