"Guzzi has lost it's way"

[oldbike54]

The heyday was a decade or two before that. I fondle remember the GTO, Chevelle, 442, Camaro, Firebird, and the Cutlass of the '60s.

Most of us do fondly recall those cars , but you said the magic word "remember"  :D The fact is , most of them were not really very good cars .

  Dusty

[segesta]

Most of us do fondly recall those cars , but you said the magic word "remember"  :D The fact is , most of them were not really very good cars .

  Dusty

Reminds me that the best thing that ever happened to Ferrari quality was the arrival of the Acura NSX.

[oldbike54]

Reminds me that the best thing that ever happened to Ferrari quality was the arrival of the Acura NSX.

One of my old HD riding buddies once said, " If it wasn't for Honda we would all still be riding panheads" . Which was a bit ironic because he still rode a panhead  :D

  Dusty

[Greg Field]

The truth is that Guzzi exists nowadays only as a nameplate for Piaggio-built products, in the same way that Buick only exists as a nameplate for GM-built products. (Cue all the Piaggio faithful to hog-pile on . . . )

[Penderic]

Does show biz motorcycling marketing really work?  ;)

[Vasco DG]

The truth is that Guzzi exists nowadays only as a nameplate for Piaggio-built products, in the same way that Buick only exists as a nameplate for GM-built products. (Cue all the Piaggio faithful to hog-pile on . . . )

But that has been the case for decades Greg. Guzzi hasn't been an *Independent* manufacturer for decades. I'm not going to 'Hog Pile' on  ;D but I really can't see the problem.

Pete

[Guzzistajohn]

$40,000.00 for a Guzzi? That's like.......33 Jackals! There are so many old Guzzi's around that still have so much life left in them. Buy cheap and ride like you ripped it off!

js

[sl0rider]

I would have no problem with Guzzi branching out and using motors from other divisions, the motor vechical is full of such cross polination.  I would, however, want them to hold on to there core old school style Ltwin, it's what gives Guzzi a real identity.

Not many people out side of the Guzzi world know about Guzzi, but those that do know it by its signiture vtwin, drop that and you might as well start from scratch.

From a marketing and brand perspective, Moto Guzzi today means v-twin across the frame to the broader motorcycling community, meaning not just the Guzzisti. Just like Harley-Davidson would be mad from a marketing basis to move to any other engine format than a v-twin, so to Guzzi would be shooting themselves in the foot to make any sudden departure from what makes them "Guzzi" to the broader market place.

If Piaggio want to bring Guzzi into a place as successful internationally as H-D are now, they are going to have to improve their marketing tremendously, and that includes their product lines. They will need to look at gradual improvements in tech based around the v engine format, and also look at where their products can take them, probably by looking at where their heritage has brought them. After all, what are the key attributes that MG has always has (the positive ones anyway - we're not talking Italian electrics here!)? How about sporting handling no matter what the type of bike? I'm very new to the brand (I'm still dreaming of buying my first Guzzi!) but all my reading tells me that a Guzzi "cruiser" for example always handled like a proper motorcycle rather than a land yacht!

I think Guzzi has great potential for a very healthy future and an immensely solid brand to build on. It could use a company like HD as an example of how to build on heritage and brand values successfully. Here in Australia HD is successfully achieving a significantly younger market - definitely not just an older bloke's bike, and most certainly still an aspirational one.

I hope to see MG go the same way.

My thoughts anyway!

[bad Chad]

The truth is that Guzzi exists nowadays only as a nameplate for Piaggio-built products, in the same way that Buick only exists as a nameplate for GM-built products. (Cue all the Piaggio faithful to hog-pile on . . . )

Well, at least it is still around for us to tear it down, rip on how it's not what it once was, and the band played on... or we could talk about all the cool new bikes flying out the doors at the BSA plant...oh, we might want to hold off on that for a time.

[bad Chad]

I think if Piaggio is willing to sink the cash, Guzzi could certainly bring to motors in.  The key as I see it, would be not to abandoned the L90 motor that is today how Guzzi is known, but to market any new motors along side the current incarnation of the current lump and go for it.  Guzzi has a vast history of cool motors, make something of it!

[Vasco DG]

Thirty five years ago any 90 degree, Common crankpin, V or L twin was Italian. If it was a transverse V it was a Guzzi, if it was an L twin it was a Ducati essentially. Things have changed.

I know a lot of people would like to see a horizontal single return but there are severe limitations to the format as it requires a long wheelbase to accomodate the length/height of the cylinder. Make it a DOHC engine and cramming it in gets harder still.

I'd love to see some new designs. I really don't care what the format is but I do regret that the owners of the brand didn't see fit to use the name on a range of up-market scooters. 'Performance' bikes have always been the blue riband models but Guzzi has a long and illustrious history in the past for building high quality 'Bread and Butter' machines and I've never understood the prejudice against simple, cheap transport that some people seem to have. It's the 'Bread and Butter' models that made Honda the behemoth it is today and while Guzzi could never hope to emulate that company's success, (It was a product of the age.) producing a successful range of commuter vehicles would enable the factory to at least have some clout with Piaggio as a major contributor to overall profit rather than simply sucking at the parental teat.

Pete

[rocker59]

There are lots of machines in Guzzi's past from which to draw inspiration...

[Aaron D.]

Man, if they sold a modern equivalent I don't care if the wheelbase is long, the weight bias is wrong, I'd be after it. I'd even accept telescopic forks and liquid cooling.

[Greg Field]

But that has been the case for decades Greg. Guzzi hasn't been an *Independent* manufacturer for decades. I'm not going to 'Hog Pile' on  ;D but I really can't see the problem.

Pete

Well, we'll just have to disagree on that. Guzzi was never before owned by a major multi-line, multi-vehicle mega-corporation such as Piaggio. And previous owners largely left Guzzi alone and left design and manufacture in Mandello. This owner is not like all the others. Some will think that good; others see it differently.

[Kev m]

Reminds me of all the advice Apple constantly gets on what it has been doing wrong for the last 25 years, and what it needs to do differently right now to survive.  Amazing the company hasn't gone belly up.  Well, maybe this year will be Apple's last.

Are you really comparing the success of Guzzi with Apple???

[Penderic]

Interesting Podcast on Motorcycles ...  round table type of discussion on the new models, dealer attitudes toward test riders, new inflatable racing jackets now used in skiing, horse jumpers ......

http://thepacepodcast.com/archives/3176

[Testarossa]

I love the idea of an Aprilia V4 under a Guzzi badge.  Why not this set up Motus-style?

[oldbike54]

Are you really comparing the success of Guzzi with Apple???

The phrase "like comparing apples to Guzzis" will never catch on  ;D

  Dusty

[Dogwalker]

From a marketing and brand perspective, Moto Guzzi today means v-twin across the frame to the broader motorcycling community

Thanks to the relative success of the V7, Moto Guzzi today means "entry level stylish bikes" to a broad community that, first to see it, barely knew what an engine was, and, given the same technical and aesthetic qualities, would have bought it with any engine arrangement.
This is an opportunity to produce something out of the usual pattern.

[rocker59]

Thanks to the relative success of the V7, Moto Guzzi today means "entry level stylish bikes" to a broad community that, first to see it, barely knew what an engine was, and, given the same technical and aesthetic qualities, would have bought it with any engine arrangement.
This is an opportunity to produce something out of the usual pattern.

 :+1

[bad Chad]

That's a interesting take on it DogW.  I unlike you hadn't really thought about that market plan, but Piaggio surely has! 

We have been talking a lot about how do we get new blood on Guzzi?  But it does seem like Guzzi is going hard after the hippster crowd, and those hipsters will age like we have to want something more as time goes on, and many will want a Guzzi!

They don't show up to rallies yet in droves, but if they are buying v7s in big enough numbers it might all work out in the end. :)

[rodekyll]

I'm drinked.

Personally, I've found my niche in the pecking order and it's (hic) the Tonti framed "cruisers" from 98 - 04.  They'll outlast my need to own a bike and beyond that I don't care.

I'd like another '74 eldo someday.

and maybe wedge a 1200 2v mill between the front wheel and the torque converter.  Yeah.  That's the ticket.

[Eunos9494]

As someone who has been called a "hipster" once or twice in my life, I bought my first bike this year and the V7 fit the bill perfectly for me.  *And* I did show up at a rally early this fall (Hey there, crazy cold, Michigan rally folk!).  So, consider that a double win for Guzzi.

[nellborg]

I'm with eunos9494 - but too old to be called a hipster. 

As a returning motorcyclist, I was looking for a bike to have for commuting on in nice weather, trips to the store, and really nothing in particular, but I didn't want to ride something that looked like an insect or a Transformer. 

Horsepower doesn't interest me, neither does anything hi tech or cuting edge in motorcycle design unless it concerns safety.  I also have no time or interest in wrenching my own bike when I can keep others employed doing that and they can do it better than I could.  I just wanted something reliable and easy to ride and with understated but definite style.  My choice came down to a V7 Stone or a Triumph T100 and I chose the former - but I'd have been happy with either one (though I had mixed feelings about a British bike being made in Thailand.. ). 

So, I like the direction Piaggio is heading if that means simpler and more reliable and but not losing that great Euro styling.  And if they came out with a Falcone replica with updated engineering, I'd probably have to have one of those, too.

[Tobit]

Thanks to the relative success of the V7, Moto Guzzi today means "entry level stylish bikes" to a broad community that, first to see it, barely knew what an engine was, and, given the same technical and aesthetic qualities, would have bought it with any engine arrangement.
This is an opportunity to produce something out of the usual pattern.

Absolutely.  Most folks know nothing about the traditional V layout and don't even recognize the architecture when expressing curiosity about my LeMans.  I point out that it's a V by drawing in the air with a finger in front of the block and they see it.

So, that said, a badge engineered Guzzi "Aprilia" V4 in more traditional clothes isn't a stretch.  I'd love to see it, even with chain drive and twin shock rear end.  An sexier CB1100.

[56Pan]

I'm with eunos9494 - but too old to be called a hipster. 

As a returning motorcyclist, I was looking for a bike to have for commuting on in nice weather, trips to the store, and really nothing in particular, but I didn't want to ride something that looked like an insect or a Transformer. 

Horsepower doesn't interest me, neither does anything hi tech or cuting edge in motorcycle design unless it concerns safety.  I also have no time or interest in wrenching my own bike when I can keep others employed doing that and they can do it better than I could.  I just wanted something reliable and easy to ride and with understated but definite style.  My choice came down to a V7 Stone or a Triumph T100 and I chose the former - but I'd have been happy with either one (though I had mixed feelings about a British bike being made in Thailand.. ). 

So, I like the direction Piaggio is heading if that means simpler and more reliable and but not losing that great Euro styling.  And if they came out with a Falcone replica with updated engineering, I'd probably have to have one of those, too.

Yeah, I'm a returning motorcyclist too.  Disassembled the '56 Panhead I've had since '74 about 10 yrs. ago and then had to take work out of the country 2/3 of the time. Never any time to wrench on it. Retired now and hope to get it back together before too long.  Of the many I've owned over the years, the most reliable motorcycle I'd ever had was an MG 850T3 in the late 70's.  And saw the new Norges and read all I could on them and had to have one.  But I enjoy tinkering with the new fuel/ign/etc. electronic contols systems and am familiar with it.  My new MG is not even to the first service mileage yet, but I'm looking forward to getting rid of the nasty looking exhaust collector hanging underneath it for an Agostini crossover. (Colostomy bag, I think the folks here call it and it fits.)  And a less  restrictive muffler with no catcon. Then balancing the TB's and loading new maps in with the harness I bought from Guzzitech.  And a little more horsepower is a good thing, but my hotrod days are over.  Looking forward to learning this machine and sure hope it holds up as well as it's older brother from back in the day. The Blue Ridge parkway is not far from me and that'll be a good breakin trip this spring. Life is good.

[Penderic]

I just read on one of the many Motorcycle Web sites that Triumph had its best year yet and the model with the biggest increase % in sales was their Scrambler model. (84%). http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/triumphs-record-year/26124.html

Where are we going? Looks like ......



 ;)

[Penderic]

Viva la difference!  ;-T

[Moz]

Why the short stroke, twin plugged, tonti framed CARC fitted bellagio never made it to the USA has always been a mystery..



tho it's a  :beat_horse  now..

[Greg Field]

All I can say is, Ho. Lee Fuk.