State of Guzzi

[Wayne Orwig]

My intention was not to be disingenuous, neither do I feel that I was. Wayne has none of the items listed in bold above and he doesn't seem to have any problems. Dave, (Lucian.) I think did his conversion himself, not sure, as have several others here.

I have some Craftsmen tools, and a big C clamp that I modified to use as a valve spring compressor.
I just finished the second side today. It is taking me a lot of time as I'm recovering from spine surgery and have some trouble looking down at the motor. But it is a one weekend job if you are able. About the same amount of time I used to spend doing a valve adjustment on my Honda V65. That is the 'big' kit 'C'. If you can get by with a smaller kit, it is a no brainer.

Yes, it sucks and I would rather not be doing it. Yes, I am grateful to Piaggio for providing the parts on their nickel for a bike with 50,000 miles, and years out of warranty. Honda did not do that for me when their cams failed.

[not-fishing]

I don't think expecting a Guzzi engine to go more than 16K with out eating its top end and trashing the mains is a feeling of entitlement.

Yeah well I purchased a new Toyota back in '84, the most expensive model Toyota made at the time, the Supra.  It ate it's top in at 33,000 miles with full dealer service and sucked a valve while my wife was driving at 112,000 miles. The car ended being a real loss.

My Alfa Romeo Spider and Fiat X1/9 had more miles when I sold them.

I don't trust any manufacturer I just know if I like the product I'll be less upset when it finally does fail.

[rob-mg]

On the face of it, MotoG5 is telling people to not buy any Piaggio bike, including Piaggio scooters, Vespa scooters, Aprilia motorcycles, and Moto Guzzi motorcycles, because he had a bad experience with a specific bike.

Meanwhile, there are lots of happy Piaggio scooter, Vespa scooter, Aprilia and Moto Guzzi owners.

So what I'd like to know is whether MotoG5 is effectively telling me that I should abandon my imminent purchase of a V7 II, and if so, why.

[rocker59]

So what I'd like to know is whether MotoG5 is effectively telling me that I should abandon my imminent purchase of a V7 II, and if so, why.

he told you "why". 

now, you have to decide which random strangers on the internet you will use to guide your impending decision. 

I say you search the V7 II threads here to help you with your decision, since MotoG5's post has nothing to do with V7s of any kind.

[rob-mg]

... MotoG5's post has nothing to do with V7s of any kind.

I think that's my point. His post also has nothing to do with Piaggio scooters, Vespa scooters, Aprilia motorcycles, nor Moto Guzzi motorcycles, or at least V7 IIs, unless he wants to take a swing at that  bike too.

This appears to be a thread about turning a bad experience with a specific bike into an indictment of Piaggio generally and all of its brands and bikes.

[oldbike54]

                                                                 <Sigh>

  Dusty

[MotoG5]

I think that's my point. His post also has nothing to do with Piaggio scooters, Vespa scooters, Aprilua motorcycles, nor Moto Guzzi motorcycles, or at least V7 IIs, unless he wants to take a swing at them too.

This appears to be a thread about turning a bad experience with a specific bike into an indictment of Piaggio generally and all of its brands and bikes.

You can read anything into my post you want to dude. What I posted is what happened to me with my bike. I personally inspected it and repaired it and experienced Piaggio's process for dealing with it. I was not satisfied. The story is about the 1200cc 8V engine and NOTHING else. My wife rides an 09' Piaggio MP3 and has since new with no issues. You don't see any mention of it because I don't have any issues to tell you about. You can interpret this information any way you see fit but it did happen. I bought that bike an rode the crap out of it with no regrets until this jumped up and bit me in the butt and I feel Piaggio let me down on dealing with it in good faith. All I am saying is on my next purchase of a big block newer design Guzzi I will lay back and see how the wind blows before investing 15K+ of my hard earned money and shop time. 

[Vasco DG]

Rob? Are you being deliberately obtuse? This whole thread is not about any particular bike model but the example of how badly people have been treated in the case of the early 8V tappet fiasco is being used by the OP to question whether it is wise to buy any new product from this manufacturer.

The debate has opened up all sorts of responses as it would be bound to do and it is up to you to read and assess whether you are willing to take the risk of purchasing the product or if you think you would be better advised to look elsewhere.

If you want MY opinion? If you like what the V7-II has to offer? Buy one! The engine is essentially the same unit that has been in production since God was a boy and has had all the bugs ironed out. If there is one thing that the boys at Noale do spectacularly its design and build gearboxes, the final drive is pretty bulletproof as is the clutch. The only thing that lets them down is the 'Poverty Pack' suspension.

There are a couple of dealers who contribute here who have sold far more of them than me though. They'd be a better source of *Info* on potential problems but I haven't heard of anything significant!

Pete

[rob-mg]

You can read anything into my post you want to dude. What I posted is what happened to me with my bike. I personally inspected it and repaired it and experienced Piaggio's process for dealing with it. I was not satisfied. The story is about the 1200cc 8V engine and NOTHING else. My wife rides an 09' Piaggio MP3 and has since new with no issues. You don't see any mention of it because I don't have any issues to tell you about. You can interpret this information any way you see fit but it did happen. I bought that bike an rode the crap out of it with no regrets until this jumped up and bit me in the butt and I feel Piaggio let me down on dealing with it in good faith. All I am saying is on my next purchase of a big block newer design Guzzi I will lay back and see how the wind blows before investing 15K+ of my hard earned money and shop time.

In other words, I understood the title of your thread - State of Guzzi - and your post, perfectly.

By the way, my name is not "dude".

[56Pan]

Where I live there are three dealership within an hour (my dealer is fifteen minutes away) of driving. Go an extra thirty minutes and it is up to five, two hours add two more for a total of seven. All are doing just fine. With two specialty shops catering to MG and Italian bikes. V7 Racers sell with some speed. V7 Standards a bit slower. The big bikes linger. There is always a deal to be had. I doubt any ever go a MSRP. And all offer test rides. So, in big metro areas MG has a toe hold. The V7 Racer sells on looks. The young buyers don't know a Heron head from a Hemi head. As for HP they don't care. It just looks cool. They don't race and never will. They don't tour and never will. They like old school cool. The new Roamer will do just fine with these guys. I talk to them all of the time in my job. Vespa does well too.

Where do you live with that many close MG dealers?

[MotoG5]

In other words, I understood the title of your thread - State of Guzzi - and your post, perfectly.

By the way, my name is not "dude".

Fair enough rob-mg. One question if I may. How familiar are you with Moto Guzzi and its history?

[oldbike54]

In other words, I understood the title of your thread - State of Guzzi - and your post, perfectly.

By the way, my name is not "dude".

 OK , how about dOOd ?   Fellas , a thicker skin and a few deep breaths are needed here .

  Dusty

[Adan]

I'm pretty sure my next bike purchase will be a Guzzi.  It will take a lot more than one guy complaining about a known problem to push me in the direction of buying a V-Strom.  The small blocks appear to be as bullet proof as it gets, though I do wonder whether it makes sense to wait a year on the 850 to see how they hold up (and whether they find their way into a different chassis). 

[rob-mg]

OK , how about dOOd ?   Fellas , a thicker skin and a few deep breaths are needed here .

  Dusty

Moto5G's response was what's called classy. Don't know why you decided to run interference, especially after he had already posted. And no, dOOd is not OK

[oldbike54]

Moto5G's response was what's called classy. Don't know why you decided to run interference.

 Not taking sides , just a gentle reminder that this is just the internet , and not to take anything too seriously . Maybe we need to take a few deep breaths  and let everyone cool down a bit .

  Dusty

[lucian]

Well I guess there is always two ends of a shaft , but personally I could not be happier with my guzzi's or the whole ownership experience. There is no perfect motorized anything period, it is always a game of compromises. I enjoy being able to do all the routine services myself and guzzi's, even the new ones allow me to do that. The roller conversion was something I wished I hadn't had to do ,but in hindsight I am glad I was able to do it myself, thanks to Pete and his tutorial. Anyone with a little patience and a few simple tools can do the same, especially with all the support available from the great people here. I can't see this as a big enough deal to give up on such a unique and fantastic  motorcycle. I truly feel fortunate to have discovered the joy that  moto guzzi's and all of you here on W.G. have brought to the table. I have owned a lot of different brands over the years as most all of you have , but for me it is the first time that the motorcycle in my garage represents something infinitely  more than a ride. Thanks to all here, for all the added benefit of owning a M.G. Dave

[Turin]

What Dusty said... Chill out dude.

[Kev m]

Cam and I wandered around a mega-dealer today (all JAPanInc. brands, plus Victory, Triumph, Royal Enfield, Ural, plus a bunch of ATV/watercraft/snowmobiles, Strykers, and Spyders).

Before we walked out I asked him, any bike in the showroom, what do you want... He pointed to a burnt orange Ural!

I wasn't surprised. As we wandered we talked about the function of the other brands, we admired USD forks, dual disc binders, lightweight mag wheels... But what they were attached to looked like insects and not bikes.

There were some nice Triumph Bonnie's....  And there were some crude but beautiful URALs and Enfields.

Now I think MG is much closer to Triumph than the other two. But the Triumphs did have little things like adjustable levers and, the Thruxton had adjustable forks. Things like that do make me take notice.

Still, MG (and the other brands we admired) all had one thing in common, they looked the part too. They were bikes you'd want to look at as you walked away. That wasn't true with almost anything else in the showroom.

Now I DO think Guzzi has had some pretty big fails in my short tenure as their customer:

1. Hydro Cali valve train.
2. Breva/Norge dashes
3. 8V CARC valve trains.

It's enough to make me second guess CARCs and maybe even the Cali (even though they don't seem to be effected by anything more than weak crossover pipes). But once trust is lost...

... The V7 seemed worth the risk, and having a proven valve train and simpler electronics, also seemed much less the risk.

As it's turned out so far, it's been brilliant and, though not as strong a performer on paper/specs, has been not only my favorite Guzzi but one of my favorite bikes of all time.

Forza Guzzi, I hope they weather this and continue to improve.

I actually would love to add a Cali to the fleet again.. Or maybe a second smallblock.

[oldbike54]

What Dusty said... Chill out dude.

 Well , it was not specifically directed at Rob , but yes , some chilling out is in order .

  Dusty

[rob-mg]

The small blocks appear to be as bullet proof as it gets, though I do wonder whether it makes sense to wait a year on the 850 to see how they hold up (and whether they find their way into a different chassis).

If you're talking about waiting a year to see if the 850cc goes into the V7, I wouldn't wait.

Moto Guzzi has just introduced changes to the V7 that suggest that there won't be big changes next year, and in any event the power difference between the V7 engine and the V9 engine is marginal. And there are graduated licensing schemes, e.g. in the U.K., to consider.

Personally, I held off buying a V7 because I knew that ABS, which I wanted, including for resale reasons, was imminent, and I see the additional changes as a bonus.

I'll be surprised if there are significant differences in the V7 over the next couple of years. With one exception. Moto Guzzi might introduce tubeless spoked wheels.

There were rumors that the new engine was going into the V7, but in retrospect it isn't surprising that it's going into a new bike.

[Kev m]

Rob, the V7 motor won't make the next tier of EU emissions standards (EU 4 required by 2017).

And the new gearbox of the V7II appears to be an improvement that was meant to support an engine change/upgrade.

And the 850 is EU 4 compliant.

You do the math.

[rob-mg]

Rob, the V7 motor won't make the next tier of EU emissions standards (EU 4 required by 2017).

And the new gearbox of the V7II appears to be an improvement that was meant to support an engine change/upgrade.

And the 850 is EU 4 compliant.

You do the math.

I've seen that argument and maybe it will prove to be correct. On the other hand, there were lots of rumors that what turns out to be the V9 engine would be in the V7 this year, and if that engine is going into the V7, when? Next year, 2018?

From the point of view of buying the bike in the US or Canada, the V7 II addresses issues that made me pass on it three years running. I'm very comfortable buying it now. I'd be happier if tubeless tires, with or without spokes, came stock on the Special, but that's my only issue. I'll complete the purchase of a red with white stripes Special on Monday.

[bad Chad]

Just wondering, Kev, how do you know the 750 motor won't be able to be made to meet EU 4 ?

[Kev m]

Just wondering, Kev, how do you know the 750 motor won't be able to be made to meet EU 4 ?

Mostly because I can't remember when Dogwalker was ever wrong.

But if I were guessing I'd say that 5 hp want the only reason they changed the heads for the V9 (which is EU 4 compliant).

[Kev m]

I've seen that argument and maybe it will prove to be correct. On the other hand, there were lots of rumors that what turns out to be the V9 engine would be in the V7 this year, and if that engine is going into the V7, when? Next year, 2018?

From the point of view of buying the bike in the US or Canada, the V7 II addresses issues that made me pass on it three years running. I'm very comfortable buying it now. I'd be happier if tubeless tires, with or without spokes, came stock on the Special, but that's my only issue. I'll complete the purchase of a red with white stripes Special on Monday.

I'm obviously not telling you not to buy it.

I rode mine today... My little bro bought a second one a week ago, and Cam might have been on his vintage V7 Sport today but all indications are he loves his V7 Special...

[rob-mg]

I'm obviously not telling you not to buy it.

I rode mine today... My little bro bought a second one a week ago, and Cam might have been on his vintage V7 Sport today but all indications are he loves his V7 Special...

I considered two other bikes before settling on the V7 II Special. Yes, I know that the three are very different:

Triumph Street Triple R
Ducati Scrambler

I was also interested in the new Triumph Bonneville line, until I read enough to conclude that these bikes, including the Street Twin, will be at least as heavy as, and provide more power than, the current line, neither of which interests me.

If I had not gone with the V7 II, I would have gone with the Street Triple, which I think is a wonderful bike, including, for me, ergonomically. The Ducati Scrambler is just not a bike that appeals to me both in terms of ergonomics and quality of finish.

[rboe]

Just a data point but my Honda XR650L ate its' self (kinked oil feed line) at 1600 miles and Honda nor the dealer took responsibility. Had to have it fixed on my own dime (warranty time frame was past). Talked to a fellow a couple months ago, same bike, same dealer, motor cooked its' self at 600 miles. On ThumperTalk.com there have been several others with the same problem. The same bike goes through ECU's like candy through a kid, other electrical bits are also supplied by low bid crappers. Yet this bike has a reputation as being anvil reliable. Ha! Maybe, like the Guzzi, they are once sorted.

Now Piaggio comes along, DOES cover my problem (sans labor) after the warranty has expired. In my book they are less evil than Honda. Now it did not prevent me from getting a CB1100 (but I did spring for an extended warranty). When I was looking at bikes to get back into motorcycling I heard stories about several other Japanese manufactures not honoring their warranties (hearsay, but you know forums - quick to have the complainers post up horror stories).

I have one buddy that assumes anything posted on a forum is junk and refuses to even consider them at any point as a source of information. There are times I tend to agree with him! But if you spend any time on a forum one tends to know who to listen to, who to discount; which problems are real problems and which ones are statistical noise. The the squelch on a radio, you need to turn up the noise filter high enough so that you only pay attention to good stuff. It's an acquired skill.

To quote a buddy who stole it from someone else; when it comes to internet forums; "Don't be quick to take offense, don't be quick to give offense".

[Kev m]

The Ducati Scrambler is just not a bike that appeals to me both in terms of ergonomics and quality of finish.

I can't argue ergos.

But quality of finish?

As a very happy owner of a V7, an owner of a Ducati 696, and someone who has spent time checking out the Scrambler, I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing.

Now there are differences between the Monster and the Scrambler, but the overall build quality seem very similar. And the components seem every bit as stout or better than those in the V7.

I still prefer the V7... Again, don't get me wrong.

But I would be even happier if components were more like the Duc.

[oldbike54]

 I also prefer it when the assume components can go quack 

  Dusty

[rob-mg]

I can't argue ergos.

But quality of finish?

I wanted to like the Ducati Scrambler, but I was struck by truly sloppy welding, and my overall impression was that I was dealing with an oversize dinky toy, or Lego set with lots of potential add-ons. It didn't seem like a complete bike.

For me, the Triumph Street Triple and the Moto Guzzi V7 II are aesthetically in a different league.

Because of what I've seen of the Scrambler, I'm not at all convinced that Moto Guzzi's decision to go the kit route is a great idea, but I hope I'm proven wrong. In any event, the V7s are solid on their own.