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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: oldbike54 on March 13, 2015, 06:46:44 AM

Title: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 13, 2015, 06:46:44 AM
 Damn I hate this time change , my body says it's 5:40 , the clock says it's 6:40 , and it is still dark outside  ??? Why are we still clinging to this remnant pf the past ?

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: azguzzirep on March 13, 2015, 07:03:51 AM
DST was developed to help the war effort during WW1. It was discontinued shortly afterwards, but those evil corporations  ;D  found they liked the idea of the increased production hours, so they told thier bought-and-paid-for-Congress persons that they would really like to have it return. And it did.

Arizona never did it. Some parts of the Navaho Nation, up near NM do it. Europe does it, and we all hate it.

Just the Gubment flexing it's uberpowers over the common man.

Remember, Fall back, Spring foward!!!  ;D

Tom
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Gliderjohn on March 13, 2015, 07:08:52 AM
I always cannot wait for DST as I finally have light after work to do things outdoors.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 13, 2015, 07:45:44 AM
I always cannot wait for DST as I finally have light after work to do things outdoors.
GliderJohn

 Yeah , but it's not like we are actually gaining an hour  ;D Sorry fellas just needed to vent a bit , some like it, some don't , kinda like most everything else  :D Finally light out , off to , well , let's call it work  ;D

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: demills on March 13, 2015, 08:12:24 AM
I like DST, I get to sleep an hour later.

Well not really, since I'm retired I don't have to get up at any certain time, I just naturally wake up about the same time every day, only now according to the clock it's an hour later.

Dennis
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Wayne Orwig on March 13, 2015, 08:19:08 AM
"Leave it to the government to think that cutting a foot off the top of a blanket and adding it to the bottom of the blanket, will make the blanket longer!"
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 13, 2015, 08:19:32 AM
I hate it.   It's like you have a blanket that you don't think is long enough for you, so you cut a foot off one end and sew it onto the other end.   It's just stupid.    

Lannis

DANG I was 15 seconds behind Wayne putting up an analogy with blankets .... !!
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on March 13, 2015, 08:22:14 AM
Here in Canuck land we have been on DST since last Sunday.

Not all the provinces and not all towns and cities apparently ???

"Some areas of Canada not using Daylight Saving Time include, Fort St. John, Charlie Lake, Taylor and Dawson Creek in British Columbia, Creston in the East Kootenays, and most of Saskatchewan (except Denare Beach and Creighton)."
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Triple Jim on March 13, 2015, 08:42:21 AM
It's been found that DST increases revenue for businesses.  I assume that's why it was extended a few years ago, to try to help the slow economy.  From the Wikipedia article:

Quote
Retailers, sporting goods makers, and other businesses benefit from extra afternoon sunlight, as it induces customers to shop and to participate in outdoor afternoon sports.[90] In 1984, Fortune magazine estimated that a seven-week extension of DST would yield an additional $30 million for 7-Eleven stores, and the National Golf Foundation estimated the extension would increase golf industry revenues $200 million to $300 million.[91] A 1999 study estimated that DST increases the revenue of the European Union's leisure sector by about 3%.[7]
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: John Ulrich on March 13, 2015, 08:42:35 AM
We now have an extra hour a day to play outside in MN!   ;-T
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: normzone on March 13, 2015, 09:05:32 AM
I think I got this one from here - the trailer for the best movie that never was - " Saving Daylight "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUTMPuvHo
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 13, 2015, 10:02:15 AM
I hate DST.  No one knows why the congress passed it in the 60s.   Was it because the Congress wanted to change everyone's work schedule do they could play golf in the evening? Who knows?

It killed the Drive In movie business,  perhaps already a zombie relic by the 1960s.

I hate to change my schedule.  I have enough problem with sleep in the first place.  I would bet more folks are sleep deprived than benefiting leaving work an hour earlier to enjoy another hour of sunlight.

But I am retired...screw it.    :bike
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Triple Jim on March 13, 2015, 10:04:39 AM
I hate DST.  No one knows why the congress passed it in the 60s.   Was it because the Congress wanted to change everyone's work schedule do they could play golf in the evening? Who knows?

I'm pretty sure the reason I gave in my post above is correct.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rocker59 on March 13, 2015, 10:18:33 AM
But I am retired...screw it.    :bike

Throw your watch away, Billy...

Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 13, 2015, 10:22:27 AM
I'm pretty sure the reason I gave in my post above is correct.

and Jim, I am pretty sure I mentioned golf too.  So that would boost business?   Maybe sleep deprived zombies will spend more because they are in a daze?  Theories and assumptions.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Testarossa on March 13, 2015, 10:38:48 AM
I love it. When I worked in an office with regular hours, and got home around six every night, DST meant I had an extra hour outside with my kid and dogs, or out on the boat, or cycling. Here in Vail, DST means that people spend an extra hour loitering on the deck drinking beer. For some restaurants, table space doubles as the crowd moves onto the deck. Beginning April 1, we'll run the lifts an extra hour, until 4:30. This is to accommodate Latin American visitors who like to do a two-hour lunch and then ski late into the afternoon -- it's their siesta schedule.

I'll bet if you asked your local motorcycle retailer he'd affirm that DST brings in more business. Let's face it, we're a lazy culture. Most people will make use of the extra hour of daylight after work, but not before work. If it's a recreational activity, you want to taper it off into the evening, not end it abruptly to get to work on time.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Rough Edge racing on March 13, 2015, 10:45:14 AM
 Hmmm,this thread is the reason I prefer not to hang around with people my age....They piss and moan about stuff I never think about   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 13, 2015, 10:54:00 AM
Energy savings. Less people use lights in the morning than in the evening.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rocker59 on March 13, 2015, 10:55:47 AM
and Jim, I am pretty sure I mentioned golf too.  So that would boost business?   Maybe sleep deprived zombies will spend more because they are in a daze?  Theories and assumptions.

History of DST in the United States:

During World War I, in an effort to conserve fuel, Germany began observing DST on May 1, 1916. The rest of Europe soon followed. The plan was not adopted in the United States until the Standard Time Act of March 19, 1918, which established standard time zones and set summer DST to begin on March 31, 1918. The idea was unpopular and Congress abolished DST after the war, overriding President Woodrow Wilson's veto.[3] DST became a local option and was observed in some states until World War II, when President Franklin Roosevelt instituted year-round DST, called "War Time", on February 9, 1942.[4] It lasted until the last Sunday in September 1945. After 1945 many states and cities east of the Mississippi River (and mostly north of the Ohio and Potomac Rivers) adopted summer DST.[5]

From 1945 to 1966 there was no federal law on daylight saving time, so localities could choose when it began and ended or drop it entirely. In 1954 only California and Nevada had statewide DST west of the Mississippi, and only a few cities between Nevada and St Louis. In the 1964 Official Railway Guide, 21 of the 48 states had no DST anywhere.

By 1962 the transportation industry found the lack of consistency confusing enough to push for federal regulation. The result was the Uniform Time Act of 1966 (P.L. 89-387). Beginning in 1967, the act mandated standard time within the established time zones and provided for advanced time: clocks would be advanced one hour beginning at 2:00 a.m. on the last Sunday in April and turned back one hour at 2:00 a.m. on the last Sunday in October. States were allowed to exempt themselves from DST as long as the entire state did so. If a state chose to observe DST, the time changes were required to begin and end on the established dates. In 1967 Arizona and Michigan became the first states to exempt themselves from DST (Michigan would begin observing DST in 1972). In 1972 the act was amended (P.L. 92-267), allowing those states split between time zones to exempt either the entire state or that part of the state lying within a different time zone. The newly created Department of Transportation (DOT) was given power to enforce the law. As of 2014 the following states and territories are not observing DST: Arizona, Hawaii, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.[5]

During the 1973 oil embargo by the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC), in an effort to conserve fuel Congress enacted a trial period of year-round DST (P.L. 93-182), beginning January 6, 1974, and ending April 27, 1975.[6][7] The trial was hotly debated. Those in favor pointed to increased daylight hours in the winter evening: more time for recreation, reduced lighting and heating demands, reduced crime, and reduced automobile accidents. The opposition was concerned about children leaving for school in the dark. The act was amended in October 1974 (P.L. 93-434) to return to standard time for the period beginning October 27, 1974, and ending February 23, 1975, when DST resumed. When the trial ended in 1975, the country returned to observing summer DST (with the aforementioned exceptions).[5]

The DOT, evaluating the plan of extending DST into March, reported in 1975 that "modest overall benefits might be realized by a shift from the historic six-month DST (May through October) in areas of energy conservation, overall traffic safety and reduced violent crime." However, DOT also reported that these benefits were minimal and difficult to distinguish from seasonal variations and fluctuations in energy prices.[5]

Congress then asked the National Bureau of Standards (NBS) to evaluate the DOT report. Its report, "Review and Technical Evaluation of the DOT Daylight Saving Time Study" (April 1976), found no significant energy savings or differences in traffic fatalities. It did find statistically significant evidence of increased fatalities among school-age children in the mornings during the four-month period January–April 1974 as compared with the same period (non-DST) of 1973. NBS stated that it was impossible to determine, what, if any, of this increase was due to DST. When these data were compared between 1973 and 1974 for the months of March and April, no significant difference was found in fatalities among school-age children in the mornings.[5]

In 1986 Congress enacted P.L. 99-359, amending the Uniform Time Act by changing the beginning of DST to the first Sunday in April and having the end remain the last Sunday in October.[5] These start and end dates were in effect from 1987 to 2006. The time was adjusted at 2:00 a.m. local time.


2005 revision to dates of observance:

By the Energy Policy Act of 2005, daylight saving time (DST) was extended in the United States beginning in 2007.[8] As of that year, DST begins on the second Sunday of March and ends on the first Sunday of November. These changes result in a DST period that is five weeks longer than previously in years where April 1st falls on Monday through Wednesday and four weeks longer than previously in years where April 1st falls on Thursday through Sunday.[9] In 2008 daylight saving time ended at 2:00 a.m. DST (0200) (1:00 a.m. ST) on Sunday, November 2, and in 2009 it began at 2:00 a.m. (3:00 a.m. DST) on Sunday, March 8.[10] Wyoming Senator Michael Enzi and Michigan Representative Fred Upton advocated the extension from October into November especially to allow children to go trick-or-treating in more daylight.[11]

Under Section 110 of the Act, the U.S. Department of Energy was required to study the impact of the 2007 DST extension no later than nine months after the change took effect. The report, released in October 2008, reported a nationwide electricity savings of 0.03% for the year of 2007.[12]

An October 2008 study conducted by the University of California at Santa Barbara for the National Bureau of Economic Research found that the 2006 DST adoption in Indiana increased energy consumption in Indiana by an average of 1%. Although energy consumption for lighting dropped as a result of the DST adoption, consumption for heating and cooling increased by 2 to 4%. The cost to the average Indiana household of the DST adoption was determined to be $3.29 per year, for an aggregate cost of $1.7 million to $5.5 million per year.[13]

LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_States)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rocker59 on March 13, 2015, 10:59:04 AM
Energy savings. Less people use lights in the morning than in the evening.

These are the reasons I remember from the 1970s, when it was a hot topic after the Arab Oil Embargo: 

Evening time energy savings with the side benefit of 8-5 workers getting to spend some extra daylight time with family.

Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 13, 2015, 11:05:45 AM
let me take this argument to the next level:

Not only should we eliminate DST in the USA, would should also consolidate times zones from 4 to 3.

Yes, THREE time zones and NO DST.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Triple Jim on March 13, 2015, 11:06:46 AM
The actual amount of energy saving is a hot topic of debate.  The economic boost is not.  But you probably won't hear a boost to business given as a reason for DST.  At least I've never heard it.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 13, 2015, 11:07:01 AM
Energy savings. Less people use lights in the morning than in the evening.

 Probably true , and energy savings is a good thing . Some studies show that DST does save energy , it just seems like we could find some better solutions than simply screwing up everyone's circadian rhythm . Most folks stay up later in DST because our bodies need a certain amount of dark to unwind from the day . Oh well , in about a month my internal clock will adjust , then in November we will go back to standard time . Hmm , if DST is the norm for more 6 months a year ...Never mind  ::) My dogs seem to be unaware of the clock  :D
  
  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rocker59 on March 13, 2015, 11:20:41 AM
let me take this argument to the next level:

Not only should we eliminate DST in the USA, would should also consolidate times zones from 4 to 3.

Yes, THREE time zones and NO DST.

But...

1.Atlantic Time Zone
2.Eastern Time Zone
3.Central Time Zone
4.Mountain Time Zone
5.Pacific Time Zone
6.Alaska Time Zone
7.Hawaii–Aleutian Time Zone




Talk about screwing up circadian rhythms!  Three time zones in the Lower 48?  How would you set that up?

Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Wayne Orwig on March 13, 2015, 11:51:14 AM
Hmmm,this thread is the reason I prefer not to hang around with people my age....They piss and moan about stuff I never think about   ;D ;D


 ;-T
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rodekyll on March 13, 2015, 11:58:25 AM
I don't think I've read more WHINING in such a short space since Guzzi started going out of bidness.

There's a simple reason for DST.  It's to remind you to change the batteries in your bicycle speedometer and wall clocks.  I don't know how I'd remember otherwise.


Alaska has it's own time zone.  That's because they took the other three back.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Matt Story on March 13, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
The MI legislature is considering a bill to discontinue DST.  Works for me.  If you don't like how the sunrise jives with your schedule, change you schedule not mine.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: kirkemon on March 13, 2015, 12:05:22 PM
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the bottom, and have a longer blanket." ;D
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on March 13, 2015, 12:17:27 PM
 Hawaii asks, What is daylightt savings time?
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: biking sailor on March 13, 2015, 12:19:30 PM
But...

1.Atlantic Time Zone
2.Eastern Time Zone
3.Central Time Zone
4.Mountain Time Zone
5.Pacific Time Zone
6.Alaska Time Zone
7.Hawaii–Aleutian Time Zone


Talk about screwing up circadian rhythms!  Three time zones in the Lower 48?  How would you set that up?

Yeah, that works out to, like 24 time zones around the world!  Where did they get a crazy number like that????   ;)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rocker59 on March 13, 2015, 12:28:42 PM
Yeah, that works out to, like 24 time zones around the world!  Where did they get a crazy number like that????   ;)

That dang Eratosthenes was a Mathmagician!

 :D
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: jas67 on March 13, 2015, 12:41:54 PM
let me take this argument to the next level:

Not only should we eliminate DST in the USA, would should also consolidate times zones from 4 to 3.

Yes, THREE time zones and NO DST.

I'm OK with that so long as we have DST all year, instead of "Standard Time".

Being one of the majority daytime workers, I like having the extra daylight after work for outdoor activities.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: charlie b on March 13, 2015, 01:48:41 PM
Yep, in NM they have submitted a bill to go to DST all year round, while next door, AZ stays with std time.  Kinda sounds like they should just change where the time zone division is.  I would like it to stay lighter in the evening.

I remember when AZ tried DST.  It was still light at 11pm.  The bar owners threw a hissy fit as they lost millions in business.  Seemed no one wanted to out and drink when it was still light outside.  Wimps.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Daniel Kalal on March 13, 2015, 02:03:09 PM
"Yeah, I'm, I'm hip about time. But I just gotta go."
  - Wyatt, "Captain America"

(http://www.dankalal.net/wildgoose/easy-rider.jpg)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 13, 2015, 02:38:45 PM
"Yeah, I'm, I'm hip about time. But I just gotta go."
  - Wyatt, "Captain America"

(http://www.dankalal.net/wildgoose/easy-rider.jpg)

Hey, he STOLE that line from me!


Man, we just gonna GO!

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/LannisSelz/The-Wild-One-marlon-brando-30585701-401-500_zpsopgo22lm.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/LannisSelz/media/The-Wild-One-marlon-brando-30585701-401-500_zpsopgo22lm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Testarossa on March 13, 2015, 03:32:13 PM
Quote
Hey, he STOLE that line from me!


Man, we just gonna GO!

Nope. John Paxton, the screenwriter.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Penderic on March 13, 2015, 03:56:32 PM
Solstice parties?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/LandruProjection_zpsvciziqjk.jpg)
Just look at the mess they make! I hate cleaning up after Festival.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: charlie b on March 13, 2015, 04:40:26 PM
Since 'everyone' (not Lannis :D  ) has phones and clocks that are networked or sync'd to a master signal, then let's just add the GPS info to them.  They can then calculate the time wherever you are on the earth.  No more time zones at all.  :)  The bonus is when you go fast enough toward the west you can watch your clock go backwards  :)

Or just make everyone convert to GMT  :)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: StuCorpe on March 13, 2015, 04:49:02 PM
I find it very hard to change my sundial back and forth so always leave it set for "God's" time.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: rodekyll on March 13, 2015, 05:24:54 PM
I find it very hard to change my sundial back and forth so always leave it set for "God's" time.

My sundial does 24 hour time, but you have to use a flashlight at night.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on March 13, 2015, 05:36:05 PM
I'd much rather it be light later in the evening than be light out early in the morning

I wish we'd stay in 'spring forward' all year long

Worst days of the year is in the fall when you go from having a touch of daylight in the evening.. Then BAM it's dark when you are getting off work overnight!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: stormshearon on March 13, 2015, 05:38:24 PM
Well if one hour is good, then two should be better still - hell make it three hours, yeah, then everybody gets three more hours of daylight in the evening - yeah that's the ticket.

Or maybe 12 hours or some other arbitrary value... :beat_horse
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 13, 2015, 05:57:32 PM
Well if one hour is good, then two should be better still - hell make it three hours, yeah, then everybody gets three more hours of daylight in the evening - yeah that's the ticket.

Or maybe 12 hours or some other arbitrary value... :beat_horse

My thoughts exactly.   Or make the hours 120 minutes long from 6:00 PM to 9:00 PM!!   That would do it too!  MUCH more time to do things after work.

And while we're at it, we could make the minimum wage $50 an hour!   EVERYONE could be RICH!

And ... and ....

Lannis
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 13, 2015, 05:58:48 PM
But...

1.Atlantic Time Zone
2.Eastern Time Zone
3.Central Time Zone
4.Mountain Time Zone
5.Pacific Time Zone
6.Alaska Time Zone
7.Hawaii–Aleutian Time Zone




Talk about screwing up circadian rhythms!  Three time zones in the Lower 48?  How would you set that up?



yes, the CONUS, lower 48. widen the three eastern time zones 50-100 miles west and you are there.  In Cal the sun sets around 5 in the afternoon in winter.  Just eliminate Pacific time zone.  

This also squares why western states in time zones (Indiana and Arizona for example) don't want to go on DST.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Penderic on March 13, 2015, 06:08:48 PM
I am confused, naturally. I need one of those handy Metric to English Time Converters to figure out exactly what time to adjust the location of the big hand.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/universal_ring_sundial_model_3_zpshayjee9q.jpg)
Simple!  **C
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: cruzziguzzi on March 13, 2015, 09:23:12 PM
Move to Arizona; I think they still avoid the DST nonsense.  Sure wish Indiana had not given in to this stupidity.

Yeah, Arizona... We doan need no steenkin' DST...

No, we just change time zones twice a year.

Rockin' fun if you run a business catering to inherently abrasive national and international customers.

No DST - less time zones.

The sun, the moon, God and even the butterflies laugh at our notion of being able to control time with a pen.

Todd.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: pedorro on March 13, 2015, 09:58:17 PM
It's one louder.

     -Nigel Tufnel
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Crusty on March 14, 2015, 05:30:44 AM
Bitch, bitch, bitch...
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 14, 2015, 11:12:04 AM
I also think we need to go to a 35 hr work week with no loss of pay.   We've had 40 hr since the 1930s.   It's time to give everyone a raise and 5 hours off or 5 hours of paid overtime.   

After 80 years of increased productivity and wealth creating it's time for workers to gain some of the benefit.   :)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 14, 2015, 11:18:10 AM
 Wow , 50 posts on this topic , interesting . Really , I was just venting a bit  ;D

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 14, 2015, 12:25:15 PM
I also think we need to go to a 35 hr work week with no loss of pay.   We've had 40 hr since the 1930s.   It's time to give everyone a raise and 5 hours off or 5 hours of paid overtime.   

After 80 years of increased productivity and wealth creating it's time for workers to gain some of the benefit.   :)

The French "supposedly" do a 35 hour week, but all the French guys I know are working 40 - 50 hours a week.   They can't get the work done in 35 hours.   

In a competitive world where people in Asia are willing to work 70 hours a week to get ahead, you'll get your financial arse kicked if you just lay back and don't try to keep up.

If you want to work 35 hours a week, why don't you work for yourself and just work 35 hours a week?   Lots of guys on this list are self-employed; if you're the boss, YOU determine the hours you work!   There's everything to be said for it ....

Lannis
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 14, 2015, 12:48:17 PM
Lannis, we've had a 40 hr week for 80 years, productivity and national wealth have gone up many times.  Now we have chronic unemployment and folks unable to retire all over the world- not just in USA.  A shorter work week can restore the benefits of the growth we've had over the last 80 years to by ensuring workers get more time and money.  The resulting greater wealth will help employ more people.

 
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 14, 2015, 12:56:54 PM
Lannis, we've had a 40 hr week for 80 years, productivity and national wealth have gone up many times.  Now we have chronic unemployment and folks unable to retire all over the world- not just in USA.  A shorter work week can restore the benefits of the growth we've had over the last 80 years to by ensuring workers get more time and money.  The resulting greater wealth will help employ more people.

 

I just don't think that the "If Everyone Works Less, Everyone Will Make More Money" model is going to work.   

The successful people that I know work (or worked) whatever hours they had to work to get the work done.   

The result of the higher productivity and wealth (and there's no doubt about THAT) is that even lower-paid workers in 2015 have "Stuff" that only doctors and lawyers could dream of having 80 or even 40 or 50 years ago ....  I doubt very much that anyone would want to give up the material things they've gained by working fewer hours, and go back to living with the level of "stuff" that my hard-working middle-class parents did.

BUT ... there wouldn't be any harm in trying it, I suppose.   I wouldn't vote for it, but I'm just one vote.

Lannis
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Seeker67 on March 14, 2015, 09:18:40 PM
Time is an illusion.  Lunchtime doubly so...

Oh, and down with DST.  It's a relic that has outlived its usefulness. 
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on March 14, 2015, 10:17:03 PM
  The reason blue collar workers have as much as only doctors and lawyers used to have is because they bought it on credit.
 Most of them are spending 20 to 30 percent of their take home pay on interest.  They are selling their tomorrow for things they want today.
 Some day the chickens will come home to roost and it will probably be their kids that pay the bill in lower quality of life.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Doppelgaenger on March 14, 2015, 10:52:26 PM
I like having the sun out later for half the year. I'd be ok with sticking to that schedule. Nothing sucks more than coming home in the winter and it's dark already. Then again this northern exposure means you don't get any light during the winter no matter what they do with the time, and in the summer it's hard to sleep it's light out for so much of the day...

Chile just got rid of their daylight savings, making some progress down there... I still like it though. It's like a reminder that spring is coming and the weather is going to get nice for riding!! And they give you more time to do it in.

Can you tell I'm not a morning person?
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 14, 2015, 10:56:22 PM
DG-

since it gets dark early in the winter, wouldn't it make more sense to keep DST in the winter?  And never change off it?
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Kentktk on March 14, 2015, 10:59:51 PM
 :+1
I also think we need to go to a 35 hr work week with no loss of pay.   We've had 40 hr since the 1930s.   It's time to give everyone a raise and 5 hours off or 5 hours of paid overtime.   

After 80 years of increased productivity and wealth creating it's time for workers to gain some of the benefit.   

 :+1 ;-T :+1 ;-T
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 14, 2015, 11:02:40 PM
DG-

since it gets dark early in the winter, wouldn't it make more sense to keep DST in the winter?  And never change off it?


 Great for folks who work inside , not so great for folks who work outside .

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Buckturgidson on March 15, 2015, 07:20:59 AM
My garden likes the extra hour of sunlight.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Sasquatch Jim on March 15, 2015, 07:43:28 AM
 Well if it is daylight savings time that means you should be able to save it for when you really need it.
 Then have some days with 24 hours a day sunlight like I saw in the antarctic.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 15, 2015, 09:55:15 AM


 Great for folks who work inside , not so great for folks who work outside .

  Dusty

Why wouldn't an extra hour of sunlight in the winter afternoon/evening benefit outdoor workers?

But I can go either way.  Just keep the time and don't change it twice a year.  Perhaps we should split the differnce and split it half and hour between ST and DST?
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 15, 2015, 10:16:35 AM
Why wouldn't an extra hour of sunlight in the winter afternoon/evening benefit outdoor workers?

But I can go either way.  Just keep the time and don't change it twice a year.  Perhaps we should split the differnce and split it half and hour between ST and DST?

 Leaving the clock set on DST means it doesn't get light until an hour later , which means you have to work an hour later , no gain for the outside folks .

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 15, 2015, 10:18:19 AM
it means you leave work an hour earlier while there is still light.  (of course you get up an hour earlier)

my point: if it's important to have an extra hour of evening sunlight in the summer when the sun is out longer, why wouldn't even be better to do it in the winter when the sun shines less?  Seems like we do it backwards.

2 weeks ago we had snow on the ground and last week the sun didn't go down until nearly 8 in the evening. WOW
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 15, 2015, 10:25:19 AM
it means you leave work an hour earlier while there is still light.  (of course you get up an hour earlier)

my point: if it's important to have an extra hour of evening sunlight in the summer when the sun is out longer, why wouldn't even be better to do it in the winter when the sun shines less?  Seems like we do it backwards.

2 weeks ago we had snow on the ground and last week the sun didn't go down until nearly 8 in the evening. WOW

 John , it is still dark at 7 AM in Winter , how does moving the clock up solve that problem  ??? ;D

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 15, 2015, 10:29:49 AM
all it means is that when a person gets off work at 5, he'll have an hour of more of sunlight than ST.  

My point, if you buy into this Daylight time nonsense, doesn't it make MORE sense to do it in the winter instead of the summer?

One thing for sure, folks on the eastern end of time zone favor DST more than folks on the western end of the same time zone.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Penderic on March 15, 2015, 11:32:37 AM
We could ignore DST on non-leap years. That would save time.

(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/what%20time%20is%20it_zpshcmcej0f.jpg)
Quarter past one.

Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: jas67 on March 17, 2015, 08:11:33 AM
  The reason blue collar workers have as much as only doctors and lawyers used to have is because they bought it on credit.
 Most of them are spending 20 to 30 percent of their take home pay on interest.  They are selling their tomorrow for things they want today.
 Some day the chickens will come home to roost and it will probably be their kids that pay the bill in lower quality of life.

That's pretty much happening on a macro-economic scale with taxes/entitlements, etc in this country.    Add to that the crumbling infrastructure problem....

Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: jas67 on March 17, 2015, 08:28:22 AM
DG-

since it gets dark early in the winter, wouldn't it make more sense to keep DST in the winter?  And never change off it?

 :+1
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Two Checks on March 17, 2015, 11:14:30 AM
If DST is so great why is it only used part time?
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: krglorioso on March 17, 2015, 11:55:10 PM
I always cannot wait for DST as I finally have light after work to do things outdoors.
GliderJohn

Megadittos, John!!

Ralph
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Rich A on March 18, 2015, 12:18:32 AM
Interestingly, a bill has been introduced to keep New Mexico on DST:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/legislature/daylight-saving-time-bill-clears-senate-faces-hurdles/article_cdd7fbda-8df9-540e-8877-379f89a8a11b.html

Rich A
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 18, 2015, 12:58:40 AM
Interestingly, a bill has been introduced to keep New Mexico on DST:

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/legislature/daylight-saving-time-bill-clears-senate-faces-hurdles/article_cdd7fbda-8df9-540e-8877-379f89a8a11b.html

Rich A

This makes sense, since they are on the eastern edge of the mountain time zone.  And notice that Arizona and Indiana have posed the opposite (being on the western part of their respective time zones).  If NM could be combined with central time zone, we would be on our way to three time zone in the lower 48.  Consistent with the desires of Arizona and Indiana too.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Tazturtle on March 18, 2015, 01:35:01 AM
What's not to like. It forces everyone to get up an hour earlier to enjoy more daylight.

You know what they say about early birds eating worms!

Kurt

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgkw7sy68.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgkw7sy68.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Waterbottle on March 18, 2015, 03:46:35 AM
We Don't have DST in Queensland, But We made it a policy to start an hour early every day and finish an hour earlier so the employees can get their errands done in town before the shops shut.  :)
Ron
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 18, 2015, 07:42:03 AM
OP here , uh , you guys do realize that DST doesn't actually ADD an hour of daylight   ??? ;D You folks that like it so much should just start work an hour earlier , let the rest of us sleep  :D

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: jas67 on March 18, 2015, 08:55:05 AM
OP here , uh , you guys do realize that DST doesn't actually ADD an hour of daylight   ??? ;D You folks that like it so much should just start work an hour earlier , let the rest of us sleep  :D

  Dusty

That's good in theory, but many people don't get to pick their working hours -- that is set by their employers (no gloating from the all the retired guys, or Kev M here).
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Oca on March 18, 2015, 09:38:08 AM
Some of you are quite the suspender snappers, complaining about a freaking hour.  Most of you probably have some sleep problem like sleep apnea or the like.  The hour should not make a difference.  It's not like any of you have been on a plane traveling for 14 hours.

Getting screwed up over an hour once a year?  Give me a break. :)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 18, 2015, 09:45:57 AM
Some of you are quite the suspender snappers, complaining about a freaking hour.  Most of you probably have some sleep problem like sleep apnea or the like.  The hour should not make a difference.  It's not like any of you have been on a plane traveling for 14 hours.

Getting screwed up over an hour once a year?  Give me a break. :)

Next topic: Explaining the raison d'etre of a Discussion Board ..... It's so people CAN discuss this sort of trivia.   Where else can we talk about it?   In a Patent Office Report?   The 10-Day AccuWeather forecast?   The Memphis, TN police blotter?
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Oca on March 18, 2015, 10:00:56 AM
Next topic: Explaining the raison d'etre of a Discussion Board ..... It's so people CAN discuss this sort of trivia.   Where else can we talk about it?   In a Patent Office Report?   The 10-Day AccuWeather forecast?   The Memphis, TN police blotter?

Lannis, I do get the idea of a discussion board.  You need to chill out.  I did end it with a smiley.  :)
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 18, 2015, 11:49:37 AM
 Yeah , you guys get along or I will nuke this thread (not really ;D) . Amazing that this topic has created this much interest  :o :D

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: LowRyter on March 18, 2015, 12:11:02 PM
yes,

1.  No DST
2.  Three Time Zone in the CONUS
3.  35 hour work week

check
check
check

 :winer
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: biking sailor on March 18, 2015, 12:20:41 PM
Dusty, here's a thought.  For guys like you that work outside and such, just start your day when it gets light and end it when you get done or runout of light, or after 8 hours or whatever.  The retired folks can do the same, whatever pleases them.

Us inside working guys may not even know when it gets light out, but it sure is nice to not get home in the dark in the evening, during late fall/early winter.  I'm for DST all year long.

Extra note, our shop starts an hour earlier in the Summer so the factory workers can trade a cool morning hour for a hot aternoon one.  Most guys say they would like to keep Summer hours all year long, but management won't go for it.  It was a 65% to 35% for vote.
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Lannis on March 18, 2015, 01:13:52 PM
Lannis, I do get the idea of a discussion board.  You need to chill out.  I did end it with a smiley.  :)

Don't forget .... If you're joking, then I'M joking too!   If you're serious, then I'M serious.   Sometimes I'm smiley-challenged  :)  ;)  :D  ;D  >:(  :(  :o  8) and sometimes not ....
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: oldbike54 on March 18, 2015, 01:25:57 PM
Dusty, here's a thought.  For guys like you that work outside and such, just start your day when it gets light and end it when you get done or runout of light, or after 8 hours or whatever.  The retired folks can do the same, whatever pleases them.

Us inside working guys may not even know when it gets light out, but it sure is nice to not get home in the dark in the evening, during late fall/early winter.  I'm for DSL all year long.

Extra note, our shop starts an hour earlier in the Summer so the factory workers can trade a cool morning hour for a hot aternoon one.  Most guys say they would like to keep Summer hours all year long, but management won't go for it.  It was a 65% to 35% for vote.

 Yeah yeah , easy for you to say  ;D John's 35 hour work week plan is a better solution  :D

  Dusty
Title: Re: Daylight savings crime
Post by: Penderic on March 18, 2015, 05:53:43 PM
Left hand time, right hand time. It is too complicated for hands and fingers.

I suggest switching to feet instead!

(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/705_watch_zps6osc15sy.jpg)
 ;D