Author Topic: 77 convert  (Read 1837 times)

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2021, 01:22:22 PM »
The clutch runs dry, I'm guessing you mean that you drained the gear oil from the high/low gearbox section. Metal fillings could mean that someone has been shifting on the fly, hopefully that's all.
Charlie

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2021, 06:22:17 PM »
Notice the additional non-factory brazing around the center mounting boss, at the juncture between the ~2-in diameter boss and the flywheel pan. This is what I did on my '77 Convert, in an effort to still use the lighter failure-prone flywheel. People said you could feel the difference between the lighter flywheel and one of the heavier later versions, but I couldn't. It is really amazing that MG let the lighter flywheels leave the factory without this critical reinforcement. Seems to me it would have been MUCH cheaper production-wise to just add this bit of reinforcement, rather than commit to machined-aluminum flywheels.
i had that done, I believe it is actually brazed not weld so the pan wouldn't warp with the heat. I had a pro welder do it, it's also strengthened on the in side. Then had it balanced before using it.

If any one wants to try that I have a couple nice light stamped flywheels for your attempt.
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline twodogs

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2021, 08:20:00 AM »
Thanks Charlie, that is what I was talking about, the po did not know the history of the bike except that it came out of a auction in Ohio.I did ask him if he ever shifted on the fly and told me no, he knew about that. So what does everyone think about running a full synthetic 10w60 in a convert? I know 1 member runs full synthetic but not 10w60, I have about 50 50 saying no it will leak all over and the other half saying it won't hurt a thing, the only reason I ask is I have 8l of the motul 7100 sitting around. I have the rotella t4 in it now  :boozing:
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline JayDee24ca

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2021, 04:56:49 PM »
Bruce, stick with the Rotella T, its an old flat tappet bike, and the newer oils are lacking in a few essentials for the older machines.
'74 Nuovo Falcone
'79 Convert
79 G5
the rest are all gone.....

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2021, 04:56:49 PM »

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2021, 06:12:30 PM »
Bruce, stick with the Rotella T

That's what I use. Now called T4. Tried Valvoline VR-1 20w50 and my mpg dropped by 3! Back to Rotella this change.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 06:13:17 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline Irishflyer

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2021, 10:13:57 PM »
That's what I use. Now called T4. Tried Valvoline VR-1 20w50 and my mpg dropped by 3! Back to Rotella this change.

Interesting on the mpg, I am using the same oil on a 96 Cali, mpg is around 40-42, depending on Nebraska winds.. :grin:

Offline herk5

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2021, 10:35:43 PM »
Bruce, glad to hear you found a convert. Now I donít feel guilty not selling you mine.  :grin:

Offline twodogs

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2021, 05:27:05 AM »
LOL herk5, as soon as the dot figures it out and titles the bike I'll ride it down so you can have a ride and check it out  :boozing:
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline herk5

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2021, 09:04:21 PM »
Sounds good, Bring Carl with ya. Looks like fun project.

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2021, 11:21:36 AM »
I'm following this thread closely since I picked up a 76 on the island.
Mine has been repainted from a blue to black, the painter left a patch inside one of the side covers blue.
I'm still trying to figure out what milage it has done, everything looks to be in similar condition to yours, odometer shows just over 15,000 miles.
The front Avon tire has an 1987 date code.
I pulled all the coloured plastic bezels out of the dash and rubbed them on 800 grit sandpaper. it made them a little better to see but I think I will switch the lamps to LEDs as soon as I get some time, I did that to all my older Guzzi's.
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline twodogs

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2021, 01:34:23 PM »
Hi KR, I'm still waiting for Ia DOT to get their heads out of their a#@&= I've registered several bikes in Iowa that did not have a 17 digit vin. I'm not sure what is going on but it has been more than 2 weeks now  :violent1: now that I figured out the charging problem the bike seems like it is ready to go. I will probably go to led lites once I put some miles on it, plus the hex piece update, but I'm not real sure about that one yet or really what to do about it, my dash lights were bright on mine so far and the mileage shows 9010 miles at the moment, hope to ride it soon, good luck with yours and I hope you enjoy it. :boozing:
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline twodogs

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2021, 12:19:26 PM »
Finally after 4 weeks and 1 day I finally got the call that the title and plate is at the DMV, so I'm heading into town to pick it up, the only bad thing is I have to head to southern Missouri and won't be back till tues or Wed, sick friend.
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2021, 07:23:14 PM »
misc thoughts.

Someone said they have a heavy flywheel on the shelf and are running the stamped plate.  Trust me -- you want to be proactive on the swap.  The potential damage from a flywheel coming off is astounding.

Someone else suggested that the stamped plate breaks from not being exactly centered.  Yes, it does.  But the main reason is that the outside of the plate can't accelerate as fast as the hub does.  So the solid plate tries to act like a cush drive.  Since there is no give in the plate, it spins the hub portion off with disasterous effect.

ATF -- I've experimented with just about everything that doesn't involve a hazmat suit to handle.  I've run it on straight hydraulic fluid, power steering fluid, and about every flavor of ATF you can mention.  Type F and tractor hydraulic fluids are the worst.  ATF+4 and other Dex/Merc varieties seem to work ok.  I prefer aircraft hydraulic fluid, but I don't recommend it anymore because it's becoming very hard to source.  When you need fluid, it's easier to find a NAPA than an airstrip with a service center.  When experimenting, watch for overheating, slipping, and foaming.  Someone mentioned losing 3mpg with a fluid switch.  That's a good indication of slipping.  Having gauges for this helps -- tranny pressure and temp, and a tach.

85% of Convert problems are leaky pump o-rings.  When in doubt, change them out.

That VIN issue can be huge.  I think I have the only 1974 Convert out there.  Even after I showed DMV the original title and the history of the 'vert, they issued the title for a year before the bike was invented.  Now they say it's cast in stone and can't be changed.

The OP most likely has the heavy flywheel.  That's great for longevity, but not so good for performance.  The heavy flywheel has no brake effect.  In fact, it has the opposite -- a "coast" effect.  That's why the flywheels on the shifty BB's have gone from 12+ pounds to about 4 pounds over the years.  My 1200 Breva for example has only enough structure for the ring gear and a clutch surface.  There's no reason why a Convert can't have the same.  In fact, with a larger engine, I've sheared the flywheel bolts off of two crankshafts because the heavy plate can't spin up as fast as the engine does.  I've put my flywheels on various diets, cutting the fat by half+  (11.5# >5.2 and 4.5 on my last two).   If you do that, don't mess with the hub part.  The best effect for reducing rotating mass comes from material removed farthest from the center.  The good news is that on a Convert, there's a lot of mass near the ring gear.

For the oil thread part of the discussion, I'm a big fan of Castrol GTX 10/40 in the cold weather, and 20/50 in the summer.  My original engine's 175k miles will do my arguing for me.


   You can see the "spokes" of solid metal between the holes.  The area around the ring gear is removed to leave only enough meat to hold the t/c.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2021, 08:14:40 PM »

Someone mentioned losing 3mpg with a fluid switch. That's a good indication of slipping. 

As I posted above, I lost 3 mpg by switching from Shell Rotella T4 15w40 to Valvoline VR-1 20w50 in the engine. When I switched back, my mpg went up by 3. Nothing to do with "slipping".
Charlie

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2021, 08:27:22 PM »
Sorry, I wasn't reading close enough.  Reference wrong, but the point stands -- a slipping TC will affect your fuel economy.  If you change ATF type and your economy suffers, it's probably not an efficient fluid.

Offline twodogs

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2021, 07:24:53 AM »
Good advice all, I drained the type F the po had in it and went with the valvoline max and the t4 for the engine. I'm not going to beat it, just putt around and go from there  :boozing:
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2021, 10:46:25 AM »
Ok I finally got my tags, I went to the local BP and put straight premium no ethanol in her, then I went for a 10 mile shake down run and everything seemed in order till I caught a light, sat there for a little less than a minute and went to take off and it didn't really want to go, let off the gas and then tried again and she took off like normal, any ideas from you folks? I'm waiting for the wife and as soon as she is ready I'm going for a longer ride, so far all the fluids are up and no leaks anywhere  :boozing:
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2021, 10:36:30 PM »
When you say "didn't want to go", what do you mean?

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2021, 06:10:26 AM »
Real sluggish, pull in the clutch and blip the throttle and release the clutch and everything thing is normal, only happens when I sat at a light for 30 seconds or more,  slowing down and stop for a second and take off,no problem, oh by the way. Welcome back.
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2021, 12:59:31 PM »
Let's start with the easy stuff.

You changed from type F to something else.  How did you purge the old fluid?  If they mixed, it's contaminated.

What is the fluid level?  It MUST NOT reach the top mark on the stick.  I keep mine near the bottom.  As long as I can see any on the stick it's good.

Is there any foam when you look in the tank IMMEDIATELY after stopping the bike?  That could be  a leaky banjo (sucks air but doesn't leak fluid), too much fluid in the tank, or a bad pump flange o-ring.

Check these things first and report, please.

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2021, 01:29:32 PM »
Thanks rodekell, there was no foam and the cooler and tank was not hot but it is at the top mark on the dip stick and I'm going to take it down to the bottom mark and report back, thanks for the info.
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2021, 08:19:20 AM »
Well I dropped the fluid down to the add mark and did a 70 mile stop and go ride (painful) and it only paused for a split second once and seems to take off better now with no hesitation, now I need to dial the carbs in, stalls once in a while, seems to be out of sync, trying to remember where the starting point was.
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2021, 12:51:22 PM »
Thanks for the report, and goodonya for sorting it out.

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2021, 01:57:17 PM »
Well I took the convert out with a couple of riders to to a cool shop about 45 miles away with speeds up to 70mph and everything seemed great, marked it's spot at the shop with a drop from the breather tube and on the way back at about 15 miles it started slowing down like it wasn't getting gas, kept playing with it to another shop and pulled the plugs and they looked pretty good, so went ahead and change them with new and took off, the last 30 miles it would not run above 50if I gave it any more throttle then off idle and then ever once in awhile it would run up to 70 and then start all over again like it was not getting fuel, so I went through town at slower speeds and limped her home. Back to the drawing board.
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2021, 02:16:27 PM »
That's probably not the fault of the ATF.

It reads like simple fuel starvation.  Are both petcocks open?  Are they flowing fuel?  Filters? Banjo screens?  float bowl volume?

Online jwinwi

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2021, 02:29:22 PM »
Well I took the convert out with a couple of riders to to a cool shop about 45 miles away with speeds up to 70mph and everything seemed great, marked it's spot at the shop with a drop from the breather tube and on the way back at about 15 miles it started slowing down like it wasn't getting gas, kept playing with it to another shop and pulled the plugs and they looked pretty good, so went ahead and change them with new and took off, the last 30 miles it would not run above 50if I gave it any more throttle then off idle and then ever once in awhile it would run up to 70 and then start all over again like it was not getting fuel, so I went through town at slower speeds and limped her home. Back to the drawing board.
Bruce

Tankbag on the tank? I've had the neoprene tank bag pad seal off the vent on the gas cap which caused similar symptoms... :popcorn:
96 Blue Sport 1100 'Stella'
76 V1000 Ex Convert
73 V7 Sport
02 Suzuki SV650 AHRMA #646 SoT3

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Offline twodogs

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2021, 03:16:46 PM »
Newer petcocks and new fuel filters, opened the cap going down the road, no real change, atf tank and cooler felt good,warm but not hot, no tank bag, was going to get it back on the lift and drop the float blows and take a peek inside, the fuel lines look fairly new, I refueled it just cause so I'll have to drop some fuel if I take the carbs off if something shows up in the floats and I'll drop a petcock and check the screen on the carbs, after that I'll probably be lost if I don't find something.
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2021, 03:39:16 PM »
Are the fuel filters on backwards?  Are the screens on the petcocks?  are you running with both sides open?  does it make a difference if you move the petcocks to reserve?

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2021, 04:39:09 PM »
Petcocks were on and it did not make a difference if switched to reserve , fuel filters on correct, I have to drop almost 6 gallons before I pull a petcock, no place to put fuel yet then I'll check the screens, my mower and gas cans are all full and I just mowed, so I'll take it out tomorrow and try and burn some fuel off, seemed to run good till today's blast so I'm hoping I can just putt around for a bit and go from there. I really appreciate your input rodekyll, I look at it that you have your masters degree and I'm just starting 1st grade, but I am willing to listen and learn. :boozing:
Bruce
2019 Suzuki Burgma
2021 Zero SR
1977 MG Convert

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 77 convert
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2021, 05:07:41 PM »
You don't need to dump fuel to check petcock function.

Turn the petcocks off
remove the banjo at the carbs
turn one petcock on/off and then the other, catching the gas in identical containers l/r.  Compare and empty containers between tests.

There should be a solid, gravity flow from both petcocks to both sides.  If the flow does not look reasonable, or it's not balanced, there's a petcock or tank vent issue.  Also look to see if crud or water is draining with the gas.  I got some once that was so bad it looked like cow piss with chunks when I drained it.  If all is good, the problem, if indeed it is fuel, is in the carbs or perhaps the fuel itself.

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