V100 Mandello Merged Threadfest

[blackcat]

The HD Pan America currently has 150hp(and hydraulic lifters) and the soon to be released BMW GS1300 is supposed to be in the 150hp range. By the time MG comes out with the new Stelvio(who knows when that will be) the hp has to at least be close to those numbers or the press will note in large flashing lights how it is underpowered compared to the competition. ‘We love the bike, just wish it had more power’ and yes the V7’s are fine in the current hp dress but I’ve met more than a few young guys who loved the bike but couldn’t keep up with their friends and moved on to more powerful bikes.

In terms of cost, the Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 has 175hp, weighs 460lbs and cost $16,199 in the USA which is $1,000+ less than the V100 Mandello and it’s supposed to be a sports tourer. Obviously Piaggio has the capability of meeting that hp challenge, they should use it for the Stelvio because that is where their competition is headed.

[Cal3Me]

I was just notified that my dealer Top Gear Power Sports is getting in a couple of new V100's and they want to unveil them to us guzzi guys. They had mentioned a private unveiling but changed their mind. So mark your calendars for April 1st......... see flier



Hope to see some of you there ...........

[Huzo]

I was just notified that my dealer Top Gear Power Sports is getting in a couple of new V100's and they want to unveil them to us guzzi guys. They had mentioned a private unveiling but changed their mind. So mark your calendars for April 1st......... see flier



Hope to see some of you there ...........

I’d say that’s a foregone conclusion.

[Cal3Me]

Mark your calendars , April 1st,,,,,,,, Top Gear Power Sports is unveiling the new Guzzi V100 , come on down and get a free lunch too

[guzzisteve]

Same day as the IL Breakfast in DeKalb.

[Phil/TX]

Here we go, I’m not a pro, just a common ordinary guy. I will list my + and - review, on my 2 day 800 mile trip from my home in east Texas to Kerrville, Texas and back.
Weather going west cool and dry low winds.
Weather return cold rain very high winds.
In no specific order. + the wings work very well in the rain keeping your knees to about six inches above your waist dry.
This was a steady rain, not heavy rain, going 75 mph leaving Kerrville.
+ very good turning and braking in rain mode, and also in the dry in touring, road, and sport.
+ suspension adjustment (each mode has adjustments) I was in touring most of the ride adjustments are from -5 to+ 5, for front and rear( each are separate) I chose to go up from -5 to 0, front and rear. This made for a good ride, with out being too soft.
+ or - low fuel light comes on at about 145 miles, with about 1.5 gallons left, so you can go 40 to 50 miles after it comes on and still have close to a gallon left.
+ average mpg was 44.58, with 50.9 the best, and 41.7 the lowest ( high head winds 30 to 40 mph)
+ riding comfort, I did a 400 mile day going out in good weather and was fine (note I’m 78 years old) coming home another 400 miles in high winds, I was tired!
+and - quick shifter, at good as any other bike I have ridden, from third thru sixth, first second and third kinda jerky, that said there is a lot of pressure on the transmission in lower gears, my KTM, and BMW were the same.
- first gear Klunks when you put it in gear from neutral , similar to an older guzzi. But it up and down shifts fine, with no klunk going down thru the gears coming to a stop.
+++ torque, idle, and cruising, you know it’s a guzzi.
+ cruise control easy to use.
- or + dash functions take a little getting use to, but there is a lot of functions and adjustments to learn.
- you must have it on the side stand when filling the tank, and fill it slow standing on the left side, DO NOT, DO NOT put the pump on automatic, it will splash out.
OVER ALL, IM GLAD I PURCHASED THE BIKE, GREAT FIT AND FINISH, AND GOOD ALL A ROUND BIKE. MY R 1200 RS will be for sale as soon as I get her serviced. New bike name (My wing man).

[jcctx]

Congrats on new bike Phil~and, glad to hear from you! Sounds like you are quite happy with it; wish my eye sight would let me still ride but is not to be. Glad you are still good to go, tho!!!

[LowRyter]

went to Don's shop today, saw the new bike.  Bike looks just like the photos.  Seems like a nice piece, sounds great, comfy seating, dashboard menu is neat.  Didn't care for the header heatshield, sorta tacked on, would take them off and show the stainless pipes like my Sport.

here's Darren the model





upload image direct link


gonna test ride when it warms up next week.  Since he's got both my Guzzis, hopefully he fix'em & it won't be long.  (my EV on the rack)

[john fish]

How tall is Darren?

[Bpreynolds2]

The HD Pan America currently has 150hp(and hydraulic lifters) and the soon to be released BMW GS1300 is supposed to be in the 150hp range. By the time MG comes out with the new Stelvio(who knows when that will be) the hp has to at least be close to those numbers or the press will note in large flashing lights how it is underpowered compared to the competition. ‘We love the bike, just wish it had more power’ and yes the V7’s are fine in the current hp dress but I’ve met more than a few young guys who loved the bike but couldn’t keep up with their friends and moved on to more powerful bikes.

In terms of cost, the Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 has 175hp, weighs 460lbs and cost $16,199 in the USA which is $1,000+ less than the V100 Mandello and it’s supposed to be a sports tourer. Obviously Piaggio has the capability of meeting that hp challenge, they should use it for the Stelvio because that is where their competition is headed.

With all due respect, I don’t think bike reviews have ever sold many Guzzis.  In fact, if selling numbers were based on some kind of Rotten Tomatoes score  Guzzi might sell even fewer bikes than they do now  .  So piss on the pundits.  To ask such a small company like MG to suddenly bump their first water cooled bike with over 110 rear wheel horsepower to suddenly make it 150 is greatly unrealistic.  Piaggio Guzzi moves in baby steps and generally is just starting to nip at the heels of the competition in terms of power when the competition usually comes out with something new that is 20-30 horsepower more.  I’m just saying Guzzi hasn’t ever much ran the HP race and even when they seemingly try, they get knocked out of the running in another year or so.  I think it’s important they stay competitive but what is competitive when you’re talking about horsepower over, say 120, where you can barely find it nor use it on regular streets?  Somehow the GS is still selling like hotcakes in comparison to much of the competition and it’s basically smoked on paper in comparison to HP of the Multistrada and Super Adventure.  It is at least an example of you don’t have to match other manufacturers HP to be competitive in the same class. 

[bmc5733946]

The surge in Guzzi sales from 1998 - 2000 was directly a result of whatever magazine did the shootout that involved the new EV model. That article put Guzzi on the map in the US during that era. Just my opinion and it's worth exactly what you paid to hear it. YMMV

Brian

[LowRyter]

How tall is Darren?

maybe 5'11"...but he's sorta like a gorilla with arms and legs like someone 6'4".   I think he has 34 in inseam.....

now writing this, it sounds pretty strange for me to know these facts, but this is based on talking about motorcycle clothes and me trying to get on his Tenere 700 which I couldn't -so please no rumors here. 

[Bulldog9]

The best v100 review I have found ' lots of info and operation data here. looks promising
https://www.saferiders.it/2023-moto-guzzi-v100-mandello-review/

+1

[kingoffleece]

I agree with bp.  The day Guzzi tries to start competing in the, to me, senseless horsepower wars, will finally be the day they start down.
I fail to understand why 150+ is needed and then a bunch of nanni electronics so it's rideable.  Drag races are for the track-and fun, but on the street I've never seen where the bike makes a difference for the truly fast riders.  They arrive first no matter what they and the "competition" are riding.  There's so much more to being fast in the twisties than brute horsepower.

[blu guzz]

Another analogy that does not favor those very high hp numbers is insurance.  Most of us are of an age to remember when the expense and sometimes inability to get insurance for muscle cars nearly doomed that segment.  Also look at who it is that can afford these bikes now.  When I was 22 in my first post-college job making $200 a week, I could afford a pretty fast Japanese 4 cylinder and still meet my obligations.  How many young people making $20 an hour can afford to squeeze in a $400 per month payment for a motorcycle, which if it is not your sole means of transportation is essentially a luxury? Those kids are supporting the newly resurrected 300cc class.  So, the market for these high horsepower bikes is basically the same market it has been for years, older guys with disposable income.  So, say you are 64 years old, a seasoned rider but one whose reflexes are not comparable to a 30 year old and who over the course of a long riding career have learned a little caution, why would you want that horsepower especially if you only have the skills to use it in a straight line.  A popular power tourer has been the FJR by Yamaha.  Most of my friends sold theirs off when they realized the only time they could use that power was straight line.  So, thanks for staying with me through this early morning ramble.
My actual opinion is that less ultimate hp that is accessible and controllable is much more useful than high hp that is finicky to access and not much use on anything but a straight road.

[blackcat]

Well, time will tell regarding the new Stelvio.

BUT, the 1250 GS has 136hp and that seemed to be all fine until the Pan America was released with 150hp and that bike has shown to be a good seller for HD. And the soon to be released 1300 BMW GS will have 150+ hp. Obviously they looked at the competition and decided they needed to meet that challenge for a bike that sells 60,000 units per year. Whether we like it or not, releasing a bike in that category with the same weight and 40hp less than the competition is not going to sell that well. And no, they are not going to overtake HD or BMW in that class or any class for that matter but if they can take 5-10%+ from that Adventure bike market it would be a wild success for MG.  I don’t see a marketing success with, “Yeah, you don’t need that extra Horse Power”

All I’m saying is that the Stelvio has to come close to those numbers. They already have a mid-sized bike in the V85 which seems to be a good seller for the company and I don’t see them adding another bike in that class.

In terms of insurance, I can’t imagine the GS will get a big bump in cost going from a 1250cc engine to a 1300cc engine.  If Guzzi goes from an 1100cc engine to a 1250cc engine there will be an increase but will it be a substantially large increase? And will that matter to a generally older rider?  If that rider is going from a 74 Eldorado to a new Stelvio, yes that insurance increase will be substantially more but that is not who is going to be buying a new Stelvio.

[bikelee]

I'm very interested at purchasing a new Mandello. I have owned many Guzzis in the past. I was wondering if anybody who has recently purchased a Mandello has had any problems with oil leaks ?  I really want to like this bike but oil leaks still haunt my memories of my 78 LM1, my 2004 V11 Sport. Do you think I should wait a year for any kinks to be worked out?

[Bpreynolds2]

Well, time will tell regarding the new Stelvio.

BUT, the 1250 GS has 136hp and that seemed to be all fine until the Pan America was released with 150hp and that bike has shown to be a good seller for HD. And the soon to be released 1300 BMW GS will have 150+ hp. Obviously they looked at the competition and decided they needed to meet that challenge for a bike that sells 60,000 units per year. Whether we like it or not, releasing a bike in that category with the same weight and 40hp less than the competition is not going to sell that well. And no, they are not going to overtake HD or BMW in that class or any class for that matter but if they can take 5-10%+ from that Adventure bike market it would be a wild success for MG.  I don’t see a marketing success with, “Yeah, you don’t need that extra Horse Power”

All I’m saying is that the Stelvio has to come close to those numbers. They already have a mid-sized bike in the V85 which seems to be a good seller for the company and I don’t see them adding another bike in that class.

In terms of insurance, I can’t imagine the GS will get a big bump in cost going from a 1250cc engine to a 1300cc engine.  If Guzzi goes from an 1100cc engine to a 1250cc engine there will be an increase but will it be a substantially large increase? And will that matter to a generally older rider?  If that rider is going from a 74 Eldorado to a new Stelvio, yes that insurance increase will be substantially more but that is not who is going to be buying a new Stelvio.

Just my opinion but the new Stelvio with the 1042cc engine won’t be asked to compete in the same class with the Pan Am, the GS, nor the big bore KTMs.  It will likely be more of a road bike with 19/17 wheels (?) and in the class with the Tiger 850, the F900XR, maybe the Versus 1000, etc.  Even if they do give it the 21/19 setup it will still likely be in that same class against the Tiger 900 Pro, 890 Adventure, Africa Twin 1100, etc.  It’s already making better horsepower than those bikes.  It’s my thinking that because of this, the new Stelvio will actually compete better within its class than the V100 Mandello which for lack of a definitive class of bike is now getting lumped into what I think are sort of oddball, square peg/round hole comparisons with things like the R1250S and other so called big bore hyper tourers that’s it’s not really.

[Moparnut72]

I think MG should stick to it's current trend of a good amount of torque coming in at low rpm and staying throughout the rpm range and not getting into the horsepower race. It is a lot more pleasurable riding a balanced bike than a screaming demon at least for me.
kk

[blu guzz]

I will further add that MG will steal a few sales when the new bike is ridden. Those other bikes are good bikes, but nothing else feels like an MG to ride.
 The modern design and features will get people into the dealerships, then there will be a few that decide they don't really need all that extra horsepower once they ride the MG.  One measure of how well MG is doing so far is the number of new dealers taking on the brand.  Definitely growing.

[LowRyter]

I will further add that MG will steal a few sales when the new bike is ridden. Those other bikes are good bikes, but nothing else feels like an MG to ride.
 The modern design and features will get people into the dealerships, then there will be a few that decide they don't really need all that extra horsepower once they ride the MG.  One measure of how well MG is doing so far is the number of new dealers taking on the brand.  Definitely growing.

have you ridden a Mandello?  The bike tips to the left when goosed, the opposite way from a "real' Guzzi.

[Huzo]

have you ridden a Mandello?  The bike tips to the left when goosed, the opposite way from a "real' Guzzi.

So what happened to all the predictions that there’d be no torque reaction because some of the components were spun the opposite way to the crank ?
Traditional Guzzi’s spin the clutch at engine speed, is the clutch on the V100 geared to spin slower than crank rpm ?

[blu guzz]

Low:  I hope to ride one soon.  Cadre has their demo in, just waiting for the weather to improve.  Twist clockwise or twist counterclockwise, would it really feel much different after a few hundred miles?  It is good that the improving fortunes of the brand are gradual, otherwise, the factory could not keep up and quality would probably suffer if they tried.  Going from 12,000 per year to 14,000 per year would be manageable, but going to 20,000 per year would probably really test them unless another facility was used.

[auzziguzzi]

So what happened to all the predictions that there’d be no torque reaction because some of the components were spun the opposite way to the crank ?
Traditional Guzzi’s spin the clutch at engine speed, is the clutch on the V100 geared to spin slower than crank rpm ?

The drawing below shows the clutch to be inline with the crankshaft, at least in the vertical plane when viewed from above.


Other photos and drawings show the clutch to also be in the same horizontal plane as the crank. Therefore clutch and crank are coaxial.
The parts book is a little unclear but it appears to show the clutch to be driven directly by the crankshaft - no gearing involved.

The evidence is pointing towards a direct drive from the crank to the clutch.

[Huzo]

Low:  I hope to ride one soon.  Cadre has their demo in, just waiting for the weather to improve.  Twist clockwise or twist counterclockwise, would it really feel much different after a few hundred miles?  It is good that the improving fortunes of the brand are gradual, otherwise, the factory could not keep up and quality would probably suffer if they tried.  Going from 12,000 per year to 14,000 per year would be manageable, but going to 20,000 per year would probably really test them unless another facility was used.

The point was/is, that the torque reaction would be diminished because the direction of rotation of the clutch was opposite to the crank.
Clockwise or anti was not the talking point.
It is the mass of the parts being accelerated that induces the reaction. If the flywheel/clutch assy. is lighter, then that will reduce the effect, but the greater Nm figure from the Mandello, will increase it .
I wonder what the net result is.

[egschade]

I'm very interested at purchasing a new Mandello. I have owned many Guzzis in the past. I was wondering if anybody who has recently purchased a Mandello has had any problems with oil leaks ?  I really want to like this bike but oil leaks still haunt my memories of my 78 LM1, my 2004 V11 Sport. Do you think I should wait a year for any kinks to be worked out?

My V85TT has been completely leak free and I expect it to remain so (provided the various oils are not overfilled). I would think the V100 will have similar build quality and also be leak free. These are newly designed engines and shouldn't be compared to bikes that were made 20-40 years ago.

[blu guzz]

huzo: I was responding to low ryter.

[Huzo]

huzo: I was responding to low ryter.

Ok understood. 

[Bulldog9]

Another analogy that does not favor those very high hp numbers is insurance.  Most of us are of an age to remember when the expense and sometimes inability to get insurance for muscle cars nearly doomed that segment.  Also look at who it is that can afford these bikes now.  When I was 22 in my first post-college job making $200 a week, I could afford a pretty fast Japanese 4 cylinder and still meet my obligations.  How many young people making $20 an hour can afford to squeeze in a $400 per month payment for a motorcycle, which if it is not your sole means of transportation is essentially a luxury? Those kids are supporting the newly resurrected 300cc class.  So, the market for these high horsepower bikes is basically the same market it has been for years, older guys with disposable income.  So, say you are 64 years old, a seasoned rider but one whose reflexes are not comparable to a 30 year old and who over the course of a long riding career have learned a little caution, why would you want that horsepower especially if you only have the skills to use it in a straight line.  A popular power tourer has been the FJR by Yamaha.  Most of my friends sold theirs off when they realized the only time they could use that power was straight line.  So, thanks for staying with me through this early morning ramble.
My actual opinion is that less ultimate hp that is accessible and controllable is much more useful than high hp that is finicky to access and not much use on anything but a straight road.

Literally me 8 years ago. After 9-10 years on my FJR I was bored. Unless I was riding at go to jail or morgue speeds, there was no passion or enjoyment. I barely broke 1000 miles my last 2 years on it. Didn’t want to give up riding so decided to go back to a standard. Did about 20 test rides and NOTHING felt right.

Then I went up to MI in Seattle, took my first ride on a Griso and was instantly hooked. Put 2k miles in that first month and by July had added a Norge.

After 30+ years on IL4 Jap bikes it took me a bit to adjust to the change in power delivery but once learned, I don’t miss it at all. Guzzi’s put the power where it matters most and makes every second rewarding. My favorite is still the Griso, but the V7ii makes me smile the most.

[blu guzz]

I test rode a Griso once at Cadre.  It had been chipped with an aftermarket exhaust.  To say it was not a good citizen was an understatement.  Every time I took off, the sucker tried to rip my arms off.  It was loud, stinky (no cat) and uncomfortable for me and would not really take touring luggage and there was no real logical reason for it to exist except for one.  I could not stop smiling at every stop light.  That monster bike would scare old ladies and kids.  It probably would ultimately be outrun by a high horsepower inline 4 or modern multistratda but not in 1st gear.  So from 0-60 it was the modern equivilent of a Hemi Cuda.