Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?

[ozarquebus]

 It appears to me after some reflection on reading this thread, that the most ideal mid weight mentioned tourist bikes have been dressed up as sport bikes or are certain good vintage naked UJMs.
Since there was not much styling happening with more utilitarian vintage bikes, it is safe to say that with some exceptions, mid weight tourist bikes have evolved into a very highly styled sporty look. The less sporty examples are the dressed up mid weight touring bikes.
 This is a pretty natural progression for motor vehicles in general as we see countless examples through the decades of GT and Sport model cars that were lumbering underpowered evolutions of the 'family truckster". The exception would be Pickup Trucks and Jeeps which are sporty in their own way and in motorcycles these are represented by GoldBlings/Road Hogs and Adventure Bikes.

 So, it is no surprise to me that low to mid-end big engined sport bikes are really mules in wolf's clothing.
What young spitfire of demographic statistic in his peak earning years wants to buy a motorcycle analogous to a Rambler?

Its those darn marketing gurus burning the midnight olio again.

An older GSXR would be a candidate. Chain drive allows smaller rear sprocket for higher gearing. 750 or  850 Suzuki are potent tough engines. The GSXR 1100, though really a mid weight, wouid feel like one compared to an Electraglide or a Wing.

The new Honda Interceptor looks like a possible future candidate, especially if it is a sales flop.


better stick to the V7...

A whole world of modifications await.

[PhilB]

The whole reason I'm on this site is that I'm looking for a mid-weight sport-touring bike, and a couple of Guzzis are on my shortlist.

I'm not necessarily looking for a lower power or smaller engine bike, but I want a sport-tourer with a bit of a bias towards the sport, and a wet weight of less than 600lbs.

My current main contenders are:
Ducati 939 SuperSport (someone pictured one above)
Moto Guzzi Griso or Norge
KTM 1290 SDGT
Kawasaki Ninja H2 SX SE (haven't had a chance to test this one yet)
Honda VFR1200 (haven't had a chance to test this one yet, either)

I was looking seriously at the Motus MST, but they've quit making them.

There are actually a *lot* of sport-touring bikes on the market, but if I go with wet weight under 600lbs, that narrows the field quite a lot.
I don't care for adventure bikes, and I'm short, so the Ducati MS and the Aprilia Caponord, among others, are out.

I'm currently leaning towards the Duc 939SS, although the Guzzis are still in contention, and I need to testride the two Japanese bikes.
The KTM is great to ride, and a stonking gonzo choice, but I can't get a good read on its longevity.
No one seems to put 100K+ on a KTM.  I tend to keep my stuff a long time, and use it 'til it wears out, and I'm looking for my next bike to be something I'll turn over 250K on in about 2040.

I have tested the BMW F800 (several variants), and just didn't like the feel of it much.  The belt drive is a plus for me -- combines the efficiency of a chain with the low maintenance of a shaft.  On the road, belts are fine.  Offroad, the getting-a-rock-caught-in-it issue is real, and that's why the F800GS has a chain.  But I wouldn't worry about having a belt drive on the street.  I just didn't gel with the rest of the bike.

PhilB

[ozarquebus]

So what is mid-weight anyway?

Electraglied 900
Goldwig 860
K1600 710
1980 Suz GS850G 602 ( I want one!)
My Honda NT700v 570
Norge 550
My 1981 Honda DOHC CB750 naked 540Lbs+/-
VFR800f 540?
CB1100 naked 540
Griso 1100 2v 540
R1150r 530
My V1000 G5 naked 510
BMW F850GS 510?
Royal Enfield Continental 650 Twin 490?
Kaw Versys 650cc: 475
My R100/7 naked 475
Triumph 1050 Tiger 470
V7 III naked 470
1978 Yamaha XS650 430
new CB500F 415 lbs

and the winner is?.... lots of honorable mentions...looks kinda like a Griso 1100 is the way to go for power to weight ratio on a "Mid Weight" touring bike. 6th gear would be perfect for coming down off the mountain passes, i hear.

[bad Chad]

Clearly the problem is there is next to no consensus on what a “middle weight sport tour” is.   O wonder you can’t find one, what mfg would want to market to such a fickle bunch?

[Sheepdog]

I've been happy as a clam with my '16 BMW R1200RS. I did 5,500 miles on it in two weeks this past Spring. Wet weight as shown in the photo below is about 520 lbs. I had to make a few ergo changes, but the bike was comfortable, had hard bags, cruise, ABS, TC, SC, shift assist, heated grips, and navigation. Handling and braking is superb and range is over 200 miles. Along with the unfaired R1200R and the new 1250 versions, I believe these are BMW's best bikes...

[Gliderjohn]

Honda NC700X Should be a contender. Maybe a bit lower on the sport side but in the mid to upper 400# range, reasonable protection, reasonable fuel range, good acccessory market, dealers everywhere. Still in about the same HP range as a Guzzi 750. To me they look better in person than what I first saw in pictures.
GliderJohn

[sdcr]

I really like my Le Mans, but having this K75S around fills the need for a relatively light, nice handling reliable sport tourer.

[LowRyter]

The whole reason I'm on this site is that I'm looking for a mid-weight sport-touring bike, and a couple of Guzzis are on my shortlist.

I'm not necessarily looking for a lower power or smaller engine bike, but I want a sport-tourer with a bit of a bias towards the sport, and a wet weight of less than 600lbs.

My current main contenders are:
Ducati 939 SuperSport (someone pictured one above)
Moto Guzzi Griso or Norge
KTM 1290 SDGT
Kawasaki Ninja H2 SX SE (haven't had a chance to test this one yet)
Honda VFR1200 (haven't had a chance to test this one yet, either)

I was looking seriously at the Motus MST, but they've quit making them.

There are actually a *lot* of sport-touring bikes on the market, but if I go with wet weight under 600lbs, that narrows the field quite a lot.
I don't care for adventure bikes, and I'm short, so the Ducati MS and the Aprilia Caponord, among others, are out.

I'm currently leaning towards the Duc 939SS, although the Guzzis are still in contention, and I need to testride the two Japanese bikes.
The KTM is great to ride, and a stonking gonzo choice, but I can't get a good read on its longevity.
No one seems to put 100K+ on a KTM.  I tend to keep my stuff a long time, and use it 'til it wears out, and I'm looking for my next bike to be something I'll turn over 250K on in about 2040.

I have tested the BMW F800 (several variants), and just didn't like the feel of it much.  The belt drive is a plus for me -- combines the efficiency of a chain with the low maintenance of a shaft.  On the road, belts are fine.  Offroad, the getting-a-rock-caught-in-it issue is real, and that's why the F800GS has a chain.  But I wouldn't worry about having a belt drive on the street.  I just didn't gel with the rest of the bike.

PhilB

I gave you the business on the 939 but you're all over the map. 

H2 and KTM are way more power and over the top. Might consider beetle bags on a Hayabusa too.  You might check with Leroy,
he was an H2.

[Joliet Jim]

Clearly the problem is there is next to no consensus on what a “middle weight sport tour” is.   O wonder you can’t find one, what mfg would want to market to such a fickle bunch?

I know I was thinking 650 - 750 cc and under 475 lbs

[kirby1923]

So what is mid-weight anyway?

Electraglied 900
Goldwig 860
K1600 710
1980 Suz GS850G 602 ( I want one!)
My Honda NT700v 570
Norge 550
My 1981 Honda DOHC CB750 naked 540Lbs+/-
VFR800f 540?
CB1100 naked 540
Griso 1100 2v 540
R1150r 530
My V1000 G5 naked 510
BMW F850GS 510?
Royal Enfield Continental 650 Twin 490?
Kaw Versys 650cc: 475
My R100/7 naked 475
Triumph 1050 Tiger 470
V7 III naked 470
1978 Yamaha XS650 430
new CB500F 415 lbs

and the winner is?.... lots of honorable mentions...looks kinda like a Griso 1100 is the way to go for power to weight ratio on a "Mid Weight" touring bike. 6th gear would be perfect for coming down off the mountain passes, i hear.

Boy did I miss this one.

I thought you were looking for a fly in and buy a used machine and have a good ride home and sell it.

I have been working out of the country for a while and at my first deployment I did  exactly what I though you were looking for as fly into the states and buy a used machine and sell it at my destination. I'd look for a '90s VFR or a Suzuki 1100GS (touring) that I could buy cheap and sell w/o much loss..


Your final choice is a mystery to me as your selection has limited range and looks uncomfortable at best.. and will be a chore?? if you need service. (don't know anything about modern Guzzis as I always take care of mine myself, been several field repairs done w/ tape and such in a parking lot of a Loves truck stop.( my CX)

So what you were looking for was a keeper...Ah!

Duh...for me. I sometimes wonder why I post here...

Good luck w/ that.

[leroysch]

I gave you the business on the 939 but you're all over the map. 

H2 and KTM are way more power and over the top. Might consider beetle bags on a Hayabusa too.  You might check with Leroy,
he was an H2.

...and what am I now? Wait, don't answer that!

Bike ('19 H2 SX SE+) is crazy fast...so much so that I really appreciate the big-a&* shift indicator in my peripheral vision when I gas it while concentrating on any threats to my forward momentum. Lean angle display is addictive. Eco-mode idiot light is..ironic, to say the least. Bags and OEM farkles are outrageously expensive, saved a big chunk of change by getting them from Europe (and they arrived sooner than the stuff I could only get thru the dealer.) Valve clearance check at 15,200 miles. Chain adjustment tool (single sided swingarm) is a $100 OEM add-on, don't buy it..do some web research and get it at a much more reasonable price. Turns out the tool that came with my 916 works. Around 580lbs, but I wanted a road trip bike to replace the >800lb F6B. Cruise control, pre-programmed suspension adjustments for one up, one up with luggage, and two-up..and other modes including sport, road, and rain. Now, if I could I only find where the points are hiding.....



imagehost

[rschrum]

Griso it is then.

[Seventy One]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Triumph Tiger 800. I will be seriously considering one once I get the Guzzi out of the garage.

I just sold mine today (hopefully).

 2013. 50k miles. $2,200. Worst purchase I ever made. Good riddance. Some are good. Mine was garbage. Do your due diligence. 

[Motormike]

I just sold mine today (hopefully).

 2013. 50k miles. $2,200. Worst purchase I ever made. Good riddance. Some are good. Mine was garbage. Do your due diligence.

Interesting.  What problems did you have with it?  I rode a rental 800 Tiger through the Alps last month.  Mine, as a rental, was beat to death, but I could see the good points:  great engine, smooth, good (enough) power.  Loved the handling on all the switch-backs.  Wide bar made easy work of it.  All day comfort.  My rental had the metal Triumph panniers.  I hated them.  They leaked like a sieve, and the right side had been tweaked in a tip-over and wouldn't latch and unlatch without force.  The clutch was also fried, which led to some interesting moments But had the bike been in better shape....

[LowRyter]

...and what am I now? Wait, don't answer that!

Bike ('19 H2 SX SE+) is crazy fast...so much so that I really appreciate the big-a&* shift indicator in my peripheral vision when I gas it while concentrating on any threats to my forward momentum. Lean angle display is addictive. Eco-mode idiot light is..ironic, to say the least. Bags and OEM farkles are outrageously expensive, saved a big chunk of change by getting them from Europe (and they arrived sooner than the stuff I could only get thru the dealer.) Valve clearance check at 15,200 miles. Chain adjustment tool (single sided swingarm) is a $100 OEM add-on, don't buy it..do some web research and get it at a much more reasonable price. Turns out the tool that came with my 916 works. Around 580lbs, but I wanted a road trip bike to replace the >800lb F6B. Cruise control, pre-programmed suspension adjustments for one up, one up with luggage, and two-up..and other modes including sport, road, and rain. Now, if I could I only find where the points are hiding.....



imagehost

get 'em Leroy.   

[Yukonica]

Kirby1923 you are so close; fly-in, buy-it, ride home, then I'd use it to visit friends in Palmer (1000km one way) on weekends. I  have ridden that route several times on my V7. With Brevetatto handle bars, Mupo suspension and adjustable Sato rear-sets the V7 fits me like a glove. However, behind a line of 6 or 7 RV's from the lower 48 waddling their way north to Alaska I have to plan every pass two kilometers back. I would like double the horses in the corral.

If Guzzi built a LeMans around the new 850 motor it would be plenty for me. I'd buy above my needs just to own one.
An old Norge will fit the bill nicely. Real world criteria exempts buying a stale-dated model from any manufacturer. The V7 will remain my principal bike. Whatever sport tourer is chosen will see no more than 10k km a summer. I'm 63, I'm on chemo, I don't expect any bike to see more than five summers of activity. Resale is irrelevant. The time I have left on the bike is very relevant. I want to travel at 140+ for ten hours a day in comfort without worrying about having a tool kit on board.

[Yukonica]

I really like my Le Mans, but having this K75S around fills the need for a relatively light, nice handling reliable sport tourer.

also on the list. Haven't seen many in pre-owned lists but their reputation is strong.

[Yukonica]

V7 is more than capable of touring. I know guys that travel Oz on old 2 stroke Vespas. Having said that, Breva or Bellagio if you can find one over there or wait and see what Guzzi do next with the new 850 donk.

If waiting was an option I'd agree with patience. These days the spelling is patients. My V7 has 50k km on it. I know it'll tour. If Pete Roper will stuff an 850 into that frame..... there's my ideal machine.

[PhilB]

...and what am I now? Wait, don't answer that!

Bike ('19 H2 SX SE+) is crazy fast...so much so that I really appreciate the big-a&* shift indicator in my peripheral vision when I gas it while concentrating on any threats to my forward momentum. Lean angle display is addictive. Eco-mode idiot light is..ironic, to say the least. Bags and OEM farkles are outrageously expensive, saved a big chunk of change by getting them from Europe (and they arrived sooner than the stuff I could only get thru the dealer.) Valve clearance check at 15,200 miles. Chain adjustment tool (single sided swingarm) is a $100 OEM add-on, don't buy it..do some web research and get it at a much more reasonable price. Turns out the tool that came with my 916 works. Around 580lbs, but I wanted a road trip bike to replace the >800lb F6B. Cruise control, pre-programmed suspension adjustments for one up, one up with luggage, and two-up..and other modes including sport, road, and rain. Now, if I could I only find where the points are hiding.....



imagehost

Thank you.  That's helpful info.  I really need to just go testride one.
How is the build quality?  Any indications as to its longevity, durability, reliability?

Thanks,
PhilB

[Dilliw]

Some people are happy with a Griso as a touring bike and have gone that direction.  For me that's not the purpose of the bike, and if I were to strike out for more than a few days to places unknown I'd take the EVT for sure: greater range, better tire life, much better weather protection, lots more luggage capacity, and room for the wife if she wants to come. 

My Griso does get the (solo) weekend camping trips now, however, and I've got her set up to quickly get back to her "naked" self once I make my destination.  I don't think of that as "touring" however.

[kirb]

and the winner is?.... lots of honorable mentions...looks kinda like a Griso 1100 is the way to go for power to weight ratio on a "Mid Weight" touring bike. 6th gear would be perfect for coming down off the mountain passes, i hear.

I had a Griz 1100... Great bike, tight ergos, bad seat, shit range. Service isn't really ever needed when you do it yourself.

The ergos were helped by lowering the footpegs with a set from Knight Design (I gave them dimensions back in the day to get these made) http://www.knightdesignllc.com/Products/Motorcycle/Moto-Guzzi/Griso-1200/Moto-Guzzi-Griso-1200-Foot-Peg-Menu.html

The range is 125 miles. That sucks for a touring rig

Seat isn't for me on any ride more than an hour or so. It's not easily fixable, either.
People have toured on it, you can tour on anything.

[kirb]

I was looking seriously at the Motus MST, but they've quit making them.
PhilB

I wouldn't discount this bike just because they stopped making them. You can get them new for ~$19-20k (most with bikes are looking to deal). Parts are available from LAP, most consumables are standard off the shelf stuff... I tour on mine all the time without worry. Fantastic bike.

I have two, one made into a naked bike:
https://motusmstr.blogspot.com/
https://2017motusmst.blogspot.com/

[Moto]

I had a Griz 1100... Great bike, tight ergos, bad seat, shit range. Service isn't really ever needed when you do it yourself.
...
The range is 125 miles. That sucks for a touring rig

About 125 miles is the range to the low-fuel idiot light. There is gas in there typically good for 175 or more miles. You just need to pay attention to how hard you're riding.

The seat is not too good.

Moto

[PhilB]

I wouldn't discount this bike just because they stopped making them. You can get them new for ~$19-20k (most with bikes are looking to deal). Parts are available from LAP, most consumables are standard off the shelf stuff... I tour on mine all the time without worry. Fantastic bike.

I have two, one made into a naked bike:
https://motusmstr.blogspot.com/
https://2017motusmst.blogspot.com/

I would, however.  If I was a typical rider that rode 2K a year and changed bikes every few years, yeah, I'd do it.
But I typically ride 11K to 14K per year, keep a good bike for 20 years or more, and depend on it for primary transportation, and that's not feasible with an orphan.

PhilB

[kballowe]

How about a nice Kawasaki Versys 1000.  They come from the factory with hard bags and a rear rack.
It's sort of like a new-wave UJM.  Chain.  Upright riding position.  Center stand.
ABS, traction control.  118 hp / 75 ft lbs torque (claimed)
Large fuel tank (5.5 gallons).  Mine get's upper 40's to low 50 miles per gallon.

[rocker59]

I guess the line has been blurred between Sport-touring and Adventure-touring when we also have "Adventure-Styled Sport-Touring" motorcycles like Versys.  LOL!

Anyway, traditional Sport-touring machines like Triumph Sprint, Ducati ST, BMW R-RS, Guzzi V11 LeMans, etc.,   have gone nearly extinct because the sport-touring riders that drove the market in the 1990s have gotten old and creaky, and switched to ADVbikes for the more comfy ergos.

Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...

[kirby1923]

 
 gone nearly extinct because the sport-touring riders that drove the market in the 1990s have gotten old and creaky, and switched to ADVbikes for the more comfy ergos.

Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...

Humm.
I can tell you that the rumors of our demise (we that creak) are greatly exaggerated!

Still have a old Italian that has rear sets and clip-ons, and she has a lot of miles left w/yours truly at the helm.
Ha!!!

:-)

BTW I did the GS thing when I was younger (before I knew better).
Viva La VFR, have a '97 the last of the best.

[MGrego]

I guess the line has been blurred between Sport-touring and Adventure-touring when we also have "Adventure-Styled Sport-Touring" motorcycles like Versys.  LOL!

Anyway, traditional Sport-touring machines like Triumph Sprint, Ducati ST, BMW R-RS, Guzzi V11 LeMans, etc.,   have gone nearly extinct because the sport-touring riders that drove the market in the 1990s have gotten old and creaky, and switched to ADVbikes for the more comfy ergos.

Honda's VFR800 is about the last man standing...

Not extinct just yet !!  Just back from 3 days in Texas Hill Country "Sport Touring". Even though I am getting a bit older and creaky.....   

[bodine99]

Buell S-3T The 76 R-75/6 airhead I have owned since 01 works great for me. Or a Guzzi 850 T-3 or Millie

[Sheepdog]

Lots of sporty bikes can adapt to touring. Handlebar setbacks and lowered foot pegs are available for many...just check out the Helibars or Knight design websites. Add a seat that works for you and maybe a taller screen and you can have the best of two riding styles...and you can pick your own weight and horsepower.