Cali 1400 decel engine braking question

[Clifton]

During engine braking at around 3,000 my 2015 California adds throttle negating the engine braking which is unsettling. Is there a way to program this feature out? Or change it to occur lower at say 1,500 rpm?

[guzzisteve]

Could be the cruise control or traction control issue unless they are shut off. I don't own one. Plenty here that do own one though.

[Clifton]

Thanks Steve, but I don't believe so. This is what it feels like......cruise off, going down a hill in say 4th at 4,000 rpm, throttle closed and decelerating, downshift to 3rd for the corner it keeps decelerating nicely, then suddenly at 3,000 rpm it stops decelerating (feeling like it slipped out of gear) as the ecm adds throttle.

[guzzisteve]

I don't know what could cause that unless it's a glitch in programming.
If it is an issue with your demand sensor(where cables become wire) You could try disconnecting battery & reboot, check it afterwards.

[blu guzz]

I had one.  I believe it is the emissions programming.

[Clifton]

I had one.  I believe it is the emissions programming.

Crap!

[Moparnut72]

My 1400 did this also. Very disconcerting. It is coming from the ECU which some programming changes may fix. I have since sold mine so I never did anything with mine. I wanted to get a map from Beetle but at the time he wasn't offering one due to some issues. I understand he has a map now. The other "cure" is to downshift and keep the rpm north of 3,000 rpm. Guzzi engines love to rev so don't be afraid to wind it up, big blocks too. I miss my Audace but it was too heavy and awkward for my aging body. Good luck, feel free to PM me to discuss your bike if you wish.
kk

[GuzziOrDeath]

The fuel isn't cut on a closed throttle, that's why there's not much engine braking.

It can be fixed, but it requires remapping.

[Clifton]

OK thanks guys.
It *feels* like the fuel IS cut giving very good engine braking until, every time, and at 3,000 rpm, part throttle is given (not by me) which stops the decelerating. Yeah for now I try to work around it but it's just that it's slowing down so steadily at 3,200, 3,100, and in many cases it'd be nice to let it keep slowing, without having to downshift back up to 3,700.
I have the cables and now a Windows machine, once I figure out what I'm doing I'm going to attempt downloading GuzziDiag and send my ECM map to Beetle for tweaking because it's running lean at light throttle. It'll be an added bonus if he can lower the rpm at, or do away entirely with the bike adding fuel under deceleratio, until it reaches idle speed..

[Bulldog9]

I had the same on my MGX, didn’t like it either.

[Clifton]

OK thanks Bulldog, so it's definitely "designed in" not a fluke with mine.

[fotoguzzi]

OK thanks guys.
It *feels* like the fuel IS cut giving very good engine braking until, every time, and at 3,000 rpm, part throttle is given (not by me) which stops the decelerating. Yeah for now I try to work around it but it's just that it's slowing down so steadily at 3,200, 3,100, and in many cases it'd be nice to let it keep slowing, without having to downshift back up to 3,700.
I have the cables and now a Windows machine, once I figure out what I'm doing I'm going to attempt downloading GuzziDiag and send my ECM map to Beetle for tweaking because it's running lean at light throttle. It'll be an added bonus if he can lower the rpm at, or do away entirely with the bike adding fuel under deceleratio, until it reaches idle speed..

I don’t think you have to send your map anywhere just find the right one from Beetle and install it.

[vintagehoarder]

Hmmm I have never experienced this on my 2014 California Touring?

[Clifton]

I don’t think you have to send your map anywhere just find the right one from Beetle and install it.

When I communicated with Beetle he said to eliminate some problems he now wants the stock map sent to him, he makes changes then emails it back.

Hmmm I have never expoeroenced thius ib ny 2014 California Touring?

Well that's interesting. Mine's a 2015 if that could make any difference.

[Moparnut72]

My 2017 had these issues as well. Even worse was going downhill with cruise engaged. It would jump back and forth between power and braking quite abruptly. I would have to take over throttle control. Good bike but needed to be refined. I believe a lot of the issues were due having to meet tough emissions standards. As most of us know the 1400 couldn't be tweaked further to meet stricter Euro emission requirements.
kk

[OldMojo]

Hmmm I have never expoeroenced thius ib ny 2014 California Touring?

I don't recall this either on my 2014.

I did put a beetle map in mine fairly early on when I installed Agostinis. The procedure was the same. Copied my map and sent it to him for tweaking.

[Clifton]

So maybe it was implemented for model year 2015+? I wonder could Europe have been transitioning between euro 2 to 3, or euro 3 to 4 around that time?

OldMojo, a question about the Agostinis? I have them as well and just removed them to pull the wheel and noticed while the mufflers and exhaust pipe that they slip over have spring hooks for keeping the mufflers held on the exhaust, there are no springs? This is on both sides. The mufflers mount to a bracket to the frame so maybe springs are not required but I thought I'd ask if you recall if yours had springs?

[guzzisteve]

I was wondering if you have deleted the charcoal canister so there is no fuel vapors being inducted to the intakes?

[Clifton]

I don't recall seeing a charcoal canister? I'll have a closer look, where about should it be? Still I wonder how that could cause this because it's like at 3,000 rpm a switch was activated to add throttle. It always occurs and always at 3,000.

[blu guzz]

I had a carbureted car in 1981 and it did the same thing.  Very disconcerting the first time and continued to be inconvenient after the dealer told me it was operating correctly.  Apparently, engine braking causes more emissions.  My V85 doesn't do that at all, engine braking is what I consider to be normal on that bike.

[Clifton]

I would think on an FI bike that when fuel is completely cut there would be almost no emission. Maybe Guzzi had difficulty transitioning from off to on at lower rpm without an emission spike, or backfire, so programed it happen at 3,000 regardless of throttle position?

[Moparnut72]

Mine didn't do It at exactly at 3k but in the general range. I am guessing the ECU looked at a few things such as speed, rpm, which gear etc. Fueling wasn't very well sorted. A shame really, a very nice bike otherwise. I miss mine but too much bike for my aging bones. My mufflers didn't have springs.
kk

[mechanicsavant]

Most EFI engines bike & car shut the injectors OFF under deceleration until the engine rpm comes down to a certain speed . This is to keep it from stalling especially during low speed situations. Mi BMW’s turned the fuel back on around 3k rpm . On my V7’s it’s around 3500 - 4K . My Tacoma is around 2k rpm . There’s nothing wrong . A few V8 equipped vehicles do it in stages to make it less noticeable .

[guzzisteve]

There's a tube to each intake port, it has a "T" that hose goes to can. If fuel vapor still going in from tank vent still going in intake=fuel still going in vapor. Can't remember where can is, should be deleted unless your bike is tested.

[OldMojo]

So maybe it was implemented for model year 2015+? I wonder could Europe have been transitioning between euro 2 to 3, or euro 3 to 4 around that time?

OldMojo, a question about the Agostinis? I have them as well and just removed them to pull the wheel and noticed while the mufflers and exhaust pipe that they slip over have spring hooks for keeping the mufflers held on the exhaust, there are no springs? This is on both sides. The mufflers mount to a bracket to the frame so maybe springs are not required but I thought I'd ask if you recall if yours had springs?

I feel like they do, but I'll have to check and see!

FYI: An alternate method for removing the wheel is to remove the bags (not the frames), and then take the shocks loose. This will allow the swingarm to lower far enough for the axle to clear the pipes. I prefer this to wrestling with the pipes, but YMMV.

[Clifton]

I feel like they do, but I'll have to check and see!

FYI: An alternate method for removing the wheel is to remove the bags (not the frames), and then take the shocks loose. This will allow the swingarm to lower far enough for the axle to clear the pipes. I prefer this to wrestling with the pipes, but YMMV.

Moparnut says his didn't utilize the springs, hopefully yours doesn't either so mine's "normal" LOL.

I already had the bags and frames off just to see how the bike looks and felt w/o them. It might look a little better to my eye but giving up the useful carrying capacity is just not worth it. Knowing I would be removing the wheels I didn't put them back on but I will be. Next time though I'll leave them on and remove the shocks as you suggest. Did you remove both shocks entirely or one end?

[OldMojo]

Moparnut says his didn't utilize the springs, hopefully yours doesn't either so mine's "normal" LOL.

I already had the bags and frames off just to see how the bike looks and felt w/o them. It might look a little better to my eye but giving up the useful carrying capacity is just not worth it. Knowing I would be removing the wheels I didn't put them back on but I will be. Next time though I'll leave them on and remove the shocks as you suggest. Did you remove both shocks entirely or one end?

I just take them loose at the bottom and use some coated mechanic's wire to lash them to the bag frames to get them out of the way.

[Clifton]

Got it, thanks.

[Huzo]

My 2017 had these issues as well. Even worse was going downhill with cruise engaged. It would jump back and forth between power and braking quite abruptly. I would have to take over throttle control. Good bike but needed to be refined. I believe a lot of the issues were due having to meet tough emissions standards. As most of us know the 1400 couldn't be tweaked further to meet stricter Euro emission requirements.
kk

My V85 does that just a little bit but not as invasive as what yours sounds like.
Of course mine is only a bit over half as big..(bike that is..)
Anyway, I think it is when the cruise is set and you start down a hill, the bike speeds up a bit and the cruise backs off the power setting and the bike slows, but then it needs a touch to bring it back up etc….
When the power setting is at or close to 0% (or throttle closed) it is hard for the CC to settle on the steady state position.
I imagine with a big mutha’ like yours it’s a bit of a thing.

[OldMojo]

Moparnut says his didn't utilize the springs, hopefully yours doesn't either so mine's "normal" LOL.

Well, don't get a complex, but mine has the springs.