Author Topic: V9 and xdf  (Read 386 times)

Offline Zenermaniac

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V9 and xdf
« on: June 19, 2021, 09:07:16 PM »
Iím looking at my V9 bin with Tunerpro and V9_464DVCAO_1.09.xd f. Looking at the values in tables fuel cold and fuel warm starting at 7D25A and 7CD5A and the values within, Iím wondering if they actually are fuel right and left. Also, in table 66 I see values toggle in 3 places when the lambda sensors are enabled or disabled. Anyone figured out what else can be manipulated in that table? Maybe the dreaded service light?

Online GuzziOrDeath

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2021, 03:23:14 AM »

Yes, "warm" & "cold" maps are actually "left" & "right" maps.

You can't deactivate the dreaded service light.




Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2021, 06:27:06 AM »
Thank you. Any other undocumented tips regarding the xdf?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 09:12:05 AM by Zenermaniac »

Offline chrisfer

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 10:17:47 AM »
Hi Zenermaniac,
You can have a look at the XDF of my really close, if not the same, V7 III XDF here : https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=107845.msg1709016#msg1709016
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 10:18:50 AM by chrisfer »
2018 V7 III Carbon

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 10:17:47 AM »

Online GuzziOrDeath

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2021, 04:33:18 PM »
Thank you. Any other undocumented tips regarding the xdf?


The same applies to the ignition maps. Left/Right, not Cold/Warm.

"Ignition Delta" isn't. May as well delete it from the xdf.

The "Speedo Correction" scalar is wrong. I don't know what it does, but it certainly doesn't correct the speedo.






Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2021, 04:44:15 PM »

The same applies to the ignition maps. Left/Right, not Cold/Warm.

"Ignition Delta" isn't. May as well delete it from the xdf.

The "Speedo Correction" scalar is wrong. I don't know what it does, but it certainly doesn't correct the speedo.

I wondered about that but hadnít had a chance to dig into it nor compare Chrisferís xdf.
I was going to ask - I found the same with the speedo. Mine is about 5% off and I tried to bring it closer to no avail. Of course as the tire wears and the tire circumference gets smaller it will get a degree or so closer.  Just trying to appease the OCD voices in my head, lol.

Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2021, 07:26:53 PM »
Chrisfer-

Comparing your xdf with my V9 bin it looks like everything is basically identical with one exception. Look at the values in the ignition idle drivetrain disengaged table. Compared to the adjacent rpm slots, 2500 rpmís value appears radically out of context. This bin is the stock unmodified bin.  Iím stumped as to why at this point.


Offline chrisfer

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2021, 03:54:24 AM »
Chrisfer-

Comparing your xdf with my V9 bin it looks like everything is basically identical with one exception. Look at the values in the ignition idle drivetrain disengaged table. Compared to the adjacent rpm slots, 2500 rpmís value appears radically out of context. This bin is the stock unmodified bin.  Iím stumped as to why at this point.


Just don't touch this table.

I have a simpler XDF : https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuqxioVGI9b-iaIuqbcb9rPVqpDFfg?e=UUNxje

The same applies to the ignition maps. Left/Right, not Cold/Warm.
"Ignition Delta" isn't. May as well delete it from the xdf.
The "Speedo Correction" scalar is wrong. I don't know what it does, but it certainly doesn't correct the speedo.
There is no Ignition Left and Ignition Right.
"Speedo Correction" correct the speed for internal calcul, but not for display...
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 04:02:30 AM by chrisfer »
2018 V7 III Carbon

Online GuzziOrDeath

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2021, 04:50:49 AM »
There is no Ignition Left and Ignition Right.


Wrong.


Quote
"Speedo Correction" correct the speed for internal calcul, but not for display...





No.  :rolleyes:







« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 04:51:20 AM by GuzziOrDeath »

Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2021, 08:15:23 AM »
Just don't touch this table.

I had no plans to change the table. Iím concerned about the one huge step on one cylinder and not the other. It would appear to be an incorrect value. That anomaly doesnít appear in the V7III bin - only the V9. The V7 and V9 are similar enough to lead me to believe in may be a mistake in my bin. Iím supposing that the cpu interpolates values between steps and surrounding steps in a way that mutes such a large single stepís value. Thoughts?

Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 08:18:04 AM »

Wrong.






No.  :rolleyes:
For the sake of discussion can you elaborate on your disagreement?

Offline chrisfer

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2021, 12:01:30 PM »
I had no plans to change the table. Iím concerned about the one huge step on one cylinder and not the other. It would appear to be an incorrect value. That anomaly doesnít appear in the V7III bin - only the V9. The V7 and V9 are similar enough to lead me to believe in may be a mistake in my bin. Iím supposing that the cpu interpolates values between steps and surrounding steps in a way that mutes such a large single stepís value. Thoughts?
I have a bin from V9 and it is like your bin for the idle ignition table.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 12:02:42 PM by chrisfer »
2018 V7 III Carbon

Offline Meinolf

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2021, 12:41:37 PM »
Hi,

some comments on the previous posts.

1. The appearent value jumps in the idle ignition tables are due to the respective tables being stored at (usually) slightly different ROM addresses from one BIN to another. Shift the start address in the XDF parameter until the values seem to make sense. A detailed code analysis is required to identify the tables and scalars, however - everything else if dubious.

To underline this point, following a screenshot of showing a small subset (<5%) of the subprograms being used in the MiuG3 code on the left side and another part of the ignition calculation main routine.




2. The main ignition delta is present, but filled with 0 values. The screenshot below shows the selection process of either table depending on the cylinder currently being processed. If rl6 in loc_C4D1DA is 0 (left cylinder), then the code moves to the IgnAdv_main_8EBE table. If it's 1, then the IgnAdv_Delta_Table_ C79514 is used and the value from this table is added to the IgnAdv_main_8EBE  values.





3. The ignition values in the idle ignition section can be different for drivetrain engaged (gear engaged, clutch released) or disengaged (neutral selected or gear engaged/clutch drawn). However, this isn't required for dry clutch engines. On a wet clutch engine it could make sense as the oil would transmit a torque between the clutch plates even when the clutch is drawn and thus slightly brake the engine.

4. The speedo correction factor isn't used in the code. It, after being calculated here, is used for correcting the speed sensor pulse frequency to match actual speed and send to the dashboard as part of a CAN packet.





Cheers
Meinolf

PS I went thru the main portion of the non-housekeeping routines of the MiuG3 code during the last weeks and will post detailed findings in the V7/MiuG3 thread.

If's there's any interest....
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 12:59:49 PM by Meinolf »

Offline Zenermaniac

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2021, 01:06:59 PM »
Thank you, Meinolf. That is interesting and Iím very much looking forward to your more detailed findings.

Online GuzziOrDeath

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2021, 04:30:05 PM »
For the sake of discussion can you elaborate on your disagreement?


Re the ignition maps, my on-road testing has shown otherwise. There are two distinct maps for left & right.


Re the speedo correction, as Meinolf points out, it seems to be the speedo correction for the CAN data sent to the dash, but it actually doesn't do anything in on-road testing.





Offline tris

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2021, 12:48:18 AM »
I can't add anything to this discussion but I do have a question.

My Roamer has a monumental step when rolling on the throttle when negotiating a roundabout for example.

Does any of your research give a clue if this down to less than perfect mapping?

Cheers Tris

PS I've  I've taken the throttle cable slack out and am still educating my right hand 🤛🤛🤛

2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now SOLD

Online GuzziOrDeath

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2021, 04:09:54 AM »
.

My Roamer has a monumental step when rolling on the throttle when negotiating a roundabout for example.

Does any of your research give a clue if this down to less than perfect mapping?

PS I've  I've taken the throttle cable slack out and am still educating my right hand 🤛🤛🤛



This is due to the less than perfect TPS built into the MIU G3. I outlined the issue in this thread:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88236.0







Offline tris

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2021, 04:17:51 AM »
Aha - I shall ready that link fully  Cheers

Funnily I had run a trace via Guzzi Diag and could see a step, so my immediate thought was a dodgy TPS at the time

At least now I know that lurching round the roundabouts is not all down my poor riding technique :laugh:
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now SOLD

Online GuzziOrDeath

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2021, 07:22:26 AM »

Fortunately, it can be overcome by some tweaking of correction tables.



Offline tris

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Re: V9 and xdf
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2021, 10:31:51 AM »
Fortunately, it can be overcome by some tweaking of correction tables.

That's easy for you to say :wink:

I'll do most things on a bike but fiddling with the ECU and my perception that I'll brick it worries me.     :undecided:  :undecided:

It's lgely because I don't understand enough about doing it yet :embarrassed:
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now SOLD

 

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