Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: beetle on April 26, 2014, 05:04:54 AM

Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 26, 2014, 05:04:54 AM
.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 26, 2014, 06:09:31 AM
*Very* nice.  ;-T Thanks for taking the time to do this..
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dean Rose on April 26, 2014, 06:19:13 AM
Maybe pin this to the top.

Dean
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bratman2 on April 26, 2014, 08:43:59 AM
Another thanks. I have struggled as one program would not open on my newer laptop. Also I could guess what each thing does, I did not know exactly how it worked. Tried to download Adobe reader and it has failed three times to load. I read it would open the single program I could not get open. Already fussed and cussed up a storm. Will try and get it all downloaded again later today. Get one of my genius daughters to get it up and running. Luckily when it came to brains they got it from their mom!!!

5AM GuzziDiag One_Lambda V1.27        What program do you use to open this? Please don't say Adobe reader.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 26, 2014, 10:12:19 AM
5AM GuzziDiag One_Lambda V1.27        What program do you use to open this? Please don't say Adobe reader.

That one, as the others ending with xdf, are definitions from the layout of a map. So this one belongs to the one lambda 5am ecu. You use it with tunerpro to look at your map, if you download it from the bike. And you can modify anything you want. Download for tunerpro is linked on the guzzidiag website.
How to use it is in this youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NrTlLpkGUDI
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on April 26, 2014, 10:18:50 AM
Fabulous effort, Beetle.  Thank you.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dick on April 26, 2014, 10:47:19 AM
Excellent!! Makes me want a bike I could use it on. Great effort by all who have put this together. ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dawdish on April 26, 2014, 04:05:45 PM
I'm picking up my 02 Lemans next week and I understand it has a PC3 installed. My question is, does this year model utilize the Guzzi Diag, and would it do me any good to have it?   Dave
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dddd on April 26, 2014, 04:46:49 PM
Once again a big thanks for putting in the time and effort to simplify a confusing (for idiots such as me) issue like this and make it idiot proof.

Could someone please pin this at the top
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 26, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
I'm picking up my 02 Lemans next week and I understand it has a PC3 installed. My question is, does this year model utilize the Guzzi Diag, and would it do me any good to have it?   Dave

Yes any injected Guzzi does. And a v11 can the map be changed too.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dawdish on April 26, 2014, 04:59:38 PM
Yes any injected Guzzi does. And a v11 can the map be changed too.

Thanks I thought so.....Dave
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 27, 2014, 01:00:44 AM
Oh I could kiss you sir



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 27, 2014, 02:26:15 AM
Oooh. You wouldn't want to do that. Believe me.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ajonen on April 27, 2014, 09:47:45 PM
Bravo!  Thanks for this.  you have covered reading, writing, resetting tps.  Post a bitcoin public address and i will send ya some coin. :) 
Yes yes, i cant wait to hear the feedback on this.  :)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Gerry on April 28, 2014, 08:22:14 AM
Well Done!
Thanks for the effort Beetle.  The chapter on CO trim was lost on me til I read your instructions.
Gerry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on April 28, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
Full marks sir(s).  :bow

I know enough about computers to get confused at times.  :P This is a huge help.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on April 30, 2014, 10:48:52 AM
Yes any injected Guzzi does. And a v11 can the map be changed too.

Great tutorial!  With regard to the V11, is it possible to reset the TPS with Guzzidiag?  I seem to recall reading that this can only be done electronically on the 5AM bikes?

Thanks,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 30, 2014, 11:04:58 AM
Great tutorial!  With regard to the V11, is it possible to reset the TPS with Guzzidiag?  I seem to recall reading that this can only be done electronically on the 5AM bikes?

Thanks,
Shaun

The TPS is set mechanically. You can use Guzzidiag to set the idle voltage.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 30, 2014, 02:24:48 PM
The TPS is set mechanically. You can use Guzzidiag to set the idle voltage.

You should be carefull by usingGuzzidiag for low voltage, it it more a sort indication. The digital increments are way to big to be usefull to do something like a 150mv adjust. It's not more precise from what the ecu uses.

And next to the 5am, the 15rc on Breva 750 can be reset. And so is the bellagio where the tps should never be set with guzzidiag, that is a strange thing, a bastard between a cali 1100 and a calc.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Suncoast on May 04, 2014, 09:25:16 PM
Thanks again for all your work this is awesome!!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: cali on May 05, 2014, 03:31:21 AM
does it work with a power commander?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: molly on May 05, 2014, 04:31:23 AM
Guzzidiag will set the TPS and run diagnostics etc. whether a Power commander is fitted or not. It will not communicate with a Power commander directly but you could still alter various parts of the engine map such as ignition timing and still leave the Power commander in place to control the fueling. I'm not sure it would be a good idea though far better to input the PC data directly into the ecu and then do away with it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dean Rose on May 07, 2014, 07:49:33 AM
OK, got the cables yesterday and have download all files Ithink I need for GuzziDiag. Now the question is how do I find the correct maps for a 2002 EV with an H pipe? And a map for a stock 2006 1100 Breva?   I guess I need to buy a plug for the O2 sensor on the Breva.


Dean
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 07, 2014, 08:21:59 AM
OK, got the cables yesterday and have download all files Ithink I need for GuzziDiag. Now the question is how do I find the correct maps for a 2002 EV with an H pipe? And a map for a stock 2006 1100 Breva?   I guess I need to buy a plug for the O2 sensor on the Breva.


2002 EV. Is that the P8 (large ECU under the seat)?
The P8 has a rom that you need to burn.

Even if it is the 15M, you need to use the reader software to read your rom. Then you modify your rom map, and write it back.
You might find someone with a map to share, but you really need to read and back up your rom first.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dlapierre on May 19, 2014, 07:33:28 PM
I need some guidance.
I guess I got a little spoiled with the 1200 sport having only to press a reset button to correct the tps.
I've added an 08' California Vintage to the fleet and finally got the GuzzieDiag all hooked up and running right.
Here is what it told me after I adjusted the throttle balance and the voltage to 480mv.
At idle:
CO trim -120
rpm 1277 (yes, the tach lied to me just as forewarned)
throttle 4.87 degrees
Ignition advance 10.5 degrees
tps 39
Lambda 40 mv

The bike has lots of spunk, but at idle when warm, it hesitates often. It didn't hesitate as often when the voltage was at just a bit better than 400mv.

It's like it is searching for the right air/fuel mix to idle right.

I followed Wayne Orwig's suggestion to ignore the baseline reset to 150mv because I had this diagnostic tool called GuzziDiag.

What should I do next?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 20, 2014, 02:00:38 PM
Dean start over and do it like the book tells you. The diagnostic is can do it's work when some hardware base settings are correct. The 150 mv should be measured with a voltmeter, in that range the resolution of the ecu isn't good enough. And when doing that it should completely closed.

 And for maps, start with reading what map you have in the left bottom corner in Guzzidiag. Then I can tell you is there is someting better
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on May 29, 2014, 12:32:18 PM
I"m getting a installation failure message when I try to install drivers for the cable.  I'm on a new Toshiba running windows 8.1.  I'm trying to hook up to a V7 Stone.  How do you tell if the cable is the right one?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dean Rose on May 29, 2014, 01:49:32 PM
Dean start over and do it like the book tells you. The diagnostic is can do it's work when some hardware base settings are correct. The 150 mv should be measured with a voltmeter, in that range the resolution of the ecu isn't good enough. And when doing that it should completely closed.

 And for maps, start with reading what map you have in the left bottom corner in Guzzidiag. Then I can tell you is there is someting better


Paul,

I've got everything here to use the GuzziDiag, Laptop the two cables an have downloaded the software.

We are in the process of packing our belongings to move into a new house we are having built on our property up at the lake.

When everything settles back down I'll try the GuzziDiag on my 2006 Breva 1100 and my 2002 EV. I'll get back to you after I have saved the maps on these bikes. Then maybe you can advise me on the adjustments.

Thanks,

Dean
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on May 29, 2014, 04:53:31 PM
I opened my cable and found I have the wrong cable.  Time to reorder.   ::(
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: scra99tch on May 29, 2014, 10:35:53 PM
Beetle, Paul,

Quick Question I have gone from +20 on CO trim to -30 on CO trim and have noticed nothing in terms of a rough idle.  There is a quick change in RPM when I hit finish/save on the CO trim page.  The only other side effect I believe I have noticed is a hiccup when starting off idle. 

Can this be corrected by enriching my TPS a little more?  My manual says for the Quota 1.4 +/- .3 degrees but Guzziology says 2.1 degrees.  I am thinking by what Beetle is saying that maybe I could get CO down quite a bit and still maintain the correct idle but cure the hiccup with a little higher voltage per Guzziology.  I'll try it tomorrow, next step is to actually get to a place with a CO meter and set it to Factory specs.

Thanks


2000 Quota 1100ES
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 30, 2014, 06:28:19 AM
Quick Question I have gone from +20 on CO trim to -30 on CO trim and have noticed nothing in terms of a rough idle.  There is a quick change in RPM when I hit finish/save on the CO trim page.  The only other side effect I believe I have noticed is a hiccup when starting off idle. 

Stupid question, but you are clicking 'save' at each CO trim 'step'? By that I mean if you trim it down, it may not have immediate affect until after you clicked save.

If there is no significant change, I wonder if it's quite rich? As you trim down to a significant negative number, as it get smore lean you should note some surging.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 30, 2014, 07:39:56 AM
I start with the trim a bit rich. Then go down a little at a time until I notice an idle drop. Then bump it back up richer until the idle speed returns and stop there.
The Quota being a different animal may like it a touch richer than that though.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: scra99tch on May 30, 2014, 09:28:46 AM
If you've read other threads yeah bike is a lot rich.  I do click save notice a slight hesitant as the number is committed to memory but never had the idle drop.

Wayne I'll try what you suggested and report back sounds like that might work.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 30, 2014, 10:42:33 AM
The idle dip should be close to zero. +-20 maybe. Much outside that, and you may have other things going on.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: scra99tch on May 30, 2014, 11:25:34 AM
Just did a test run.

CO Ended up being set to -100 with no apparent idle change ( I even went to -128 saved it and still nothing).  Went for a ride gunned it up a large hill and promptly shut off engine, checked plugs and they are looking good.  I am not getting my hopes up yet that this is the case.  When the bike cools and I take it for my short jaunts to and fro work I am suspecting this thing will hack and spit until fully warmed.  In that case maybe I could richen up the lower end of the Engine temp trim to compensate.

As to a possibility of there being a separate issue I cannot for the life of me think what it might be. 

As per Guzziology
Set my idle first and foremost to 1050RPM
Balance Throttle Body
Set TPS 2.1 375 +/- 15mv
Set CO

Manual does differ in that they want 1200RPM Idle
1.4 +/- .3 Degrees


Did I say this thing has always run rich? 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tioli on May 30, 2014, 12:03:48 PM
Thank you very much!

a noob...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 30, 2014, 02:08:43 PM
As per Guzziology
Set my idle first and foremost to 1050RPM
Balance Throttle Body
Set TPS 2.1 375 +/- 15mv
Set CO

Manual does differ in that they want 1200RPM Idle
1.4 +/- .3 Degrees


Did I say this thing has always run rich? 

My info shows 1.4 degrees. Does Guzziology want 2.1, and then lean the trim?
I assume the air filter is not plugged.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: scra99tch on May 30, 2014, 03:45:38 PM
My info shows 1.4 degrees. Does Guzziology want 2.1, and then lean the trim?
I assume the air filter is not plugged.

That may very well be the route I want to take.  Might be on to something here stand by for testing. Won't get to look at the bike this weekend though off to AMerican Craft Brew Festival in Boston. 

Go Liver!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Rich A on May 31, 2014, 12:55:07 PM
I finally got around to getting a set of cables, downloading the software, etc. In a word: "Brilliant!"

Anyone want/need a set of VDST cables?

Rich A
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: boatdetective on June 01, 2014, 06:27:21 AM
 Beetle- THANK YOU. 
The PCV and map I bought from Todd was totally wasted money.  A generous member here sent me a great map for my 1200s and it runs much better- no more popping on overrun.

I didn't notice much of a change with CO adjustments no matter what I did. I'll try later. The biggest thing is that Guzzi diag and bettle's tutorial make me feel empowered to finally tune my bike.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: boatdetective on June 01, 2014, 06:28:41 AM
...oh yeah-  can the tutorial be saved as a sticky? This is a very helpful thread.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on June 02, 2014, 02:07:13 PM
Anyone having any luck using Windows 8.1 with this?  I'm not.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on June 02, 2014, 02:49:41 PM
Anyone having any luck using Windows 8.1 with this?  I'm not.

Yes, works fine.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on June 02, 2014, 03:14:59 PM
My problem appears to be (other than the usual ID 10 T problem) is drivers.  I can't seem to figure out how to get the drivers to install.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 02, 2014, 04:26:20 PM
My problem appears to be (other than the usual ID 10 T problem) is drivers.  I can't seem to figure out how to get the drivers to install.

If you are using the drivers that came with the cable, don't.

The latest drivers are executable. Just unzip and double click on the exe.

For latest drivers, download this: CLICKY (http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%20v2.10.00%20WHQL%20Certified.zip)



Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on June 02, 2014, 04:41:03 PM
I've unzipped it but can't find an exe anywhere.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on June 02, 2014, 04:45:41 PM
Know where the unzipped files are saved, plug in the cable to the laptop and when the OS wants to install the drivers choose the option that YOU will tell the OS where to go - in this case, to the folder containing those files.

It will take it from there.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on June 02, 2014, 05:01:56 PM
Okay, I think maybe that worked this time.  I'll hook up to the bike tomorrow to see if I have success.  Tired of messing with it today, but thank you, I think you helped me solve it.  The computer recognized the cable and I could see the drivers in another window.  Sooner or later...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rdbandkab on June 04, 2014, 07:54:33 PM
I'm in.   Just received my cabling today.

I'll be hoping to be rid of the 3500-4000 rpm vibes a.s.a.p.  (as well as some stalling I might experienced if I don't let the NTX warm up enough)

richy
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rdbandkab on June 08, 2014, 08:22:27 AM
Thanks for all this info Mark!

Was able to read and save stock map from the Stelvio.

This is a basic howto for the GuzziDiag suite of tools. This howto will show you how to connect, read (backup) your existing map, write (flash) a new map and perform a TPS reset. This uses the Windows versions, but Mac & Linux versions function the same.


For the 5AM ECU, you will need the following software from the GuzziDiag page:

GuzziDiag (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/GuzziDiag_V0.41.zip)

IAW5xReader (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/IAW5xReader_V0.22.zip)

IAW5xWriter (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/IAW5xWriter_V0.20.zip)


For the 15M ECU you will need these:

GuzziDiag (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/GuzziDiag_V0.41.zip)

IAW15xReader (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/IAW15xReader_V0.67.zip)

IAW15xWriter (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/IAW15xWriter_V0.26.zip)



Each is a standalone program that works independently of each other and does not require any extra software.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on June 10, 2014, 10:42:07 AM
Still no luck getting this connected to my V7 Stone.  Drivers are loaded and I can find them in the device manager.  All looks good from the computer, but it just doesn't connect.  The led is lit on the cable.  Gotta be something simple I'm overlooking. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on June 10, 2014, 05:27:30 PM
Hi Raul,
I had all sorts of grief with the same sort of thing
In the end, I had 3 different versions of the FTDI driver on the laptop, thinking surely one of them must hook up ?
But - No. Kept getting a message the " the Name is in use " when trying to install the driver. I think windows was getting confused with the different drivers available.
So I used the "FTDI driver Uninstaller" and it deleted all of those drivers
Then loaded the latest FTDI driver V2.10.00 , Extracted the compressed file to wherever windows decided to put it.
Connected the cable clips  up to 12V ( so the laptop can see it as a device ? ) but not to laptop yet !
Then clicked on search for new hardware , and plugged in the cable assy.
Bingo new hardware found and installed.
Another issue was the Fiat 3 pin adapter that came wired incorrectly. It would hook up to guzzidiag but not the reader or writer. Pins 1 and 3 were the wrong way around.

All of this Info is in this topic and the Diagnosis topic, Paul Daytona , Beetle, Molly , Vasco all have provided some fantastic info on how to set all of this up
I would re-post the links but I have to many thumbs  ;D


 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: raul on June 10, 2014, 08:53:25 PM
Thanks, I'll look in the other thread.   ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tioli on June 13, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
I have the cables from Centurion (TechnoResearch). Will they work for Guzzidiag or do I need to buy additionally?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 13, 2014, 05:18:21 PM
You'll have to buy the other cables. Just for grins I tried my Centurion cables way back when I first got into this stuff. No joy.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ohiorider on June 13, 2014, 06:06:11 PM
Beetle - I looked over your recent post at some of the screens provided by Diag, and when I came to the screen of Griso maps, I had to ask myself ..... which map would I want?  Is there any documentation of these maps that describe what conditions they were designed to improve?  Once my Griso is off warranty (soon) I would consider using DucatiDiag GuzziDiag to download a new improved map, if I know what the improvements were intended to do.

BTW - thanks for your comments about my throttle balancing issues with my USA 2012 Griso 8vSE.  I went back in for a third time and rebalanced at road speed and idle, and reset the TPS, and also tightened up the TB boot clamp screws when the engine was warm (prior to balancing.)  The screws easily turned another 1/2 turn each.  Prior to today, each time I'd take the bike out and then recheck the balance with a manometer, it was different.  

After my rebalancing and tightening up the boot clamps today, I think I have her running nicely.  The bike felt flexible through all the gears.  The only issue I now notice is a very slight flat spot on part-throttle acceleration as I pass through the 2500-3000 rpm range.  I attribute this to stock mapping.  Any thoughts?

Regards,

Bob
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Idontwantapickle on June 13, 2014, 06:44:48 PM
Thanks a lot! The screenshots are a great help.
Hunter
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on June 13, 2014, 06:50:19 PM
Bob, if the TB boots were loose it would explain the inability to get reliable balance certainly.

The problem with the stock maps, especially the Griso ones, are that they are very rich in most places. Down low where the system is running closed loop the lambda adjustment leans it out, in fact it leans it out to the point that its running borderline too lean so it tends to feel harsh and vibratory. Once it goes open loop its just too rich and if you turn the lambda off its too rich all the way through. There is also the issue of the cylinders needing different fueling. The Griso due to its different length head pipes is articulately needy in this regard and the stock map really doesn't address this very well.

Once you get Guzidiag up and running you have nothing to loose by trying one of Mark's maps. Just save your current one before you overwrite it. If you don't like the new map you can simply re-install the factory one. There really is no downside.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 13, 2014, 07:07:51 PM
The only issue I now notice is a very slight flat spot on part-throttle acceleration as I pass through the 2500-3000 rpm range.  I attribute this to stock mapping.  Any thoughts?

Yes, a common complaint with the factory map. I found at those revs pootling through urban areas there was a lot of hunting. There's a bit of hole in the rev range around 3500-4500 and things only get good above 5000. Not to mention the poor economy.

I presume you've never had a map update? I find the 2230G803 map which is in all post 2010 Griso's to be quite pedestrian. If you want to stick with factory maps, I recommend the 68S map. It was never homogolated but is far superior the 03 map. If you want to try a non-factory map, PM me your email address and I will shoot you one that will transform your bike.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on June 13, 2014, 10:42:40 PM
Beetle, I would love to try a map for my 09 Griso too if I may be so bold ?
I'm only too happy to contribute towards the development of this as I can see it would take countless hours of work to set this up.    :BEER: x lots
   A couple of questions........
Should the O2 sensor be removed if it's been turned off , Don't they get carbon'd up if not in use ?


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on June 13, 2014, 11:14:24 PM
Have you got the cables and software? If so PM me your address, I've got to fire maps off to a couple of people this afternoon, I can easily bung the latest iteration your way.

DO NOTE THAT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF MAPS FOR THE G8 THE COMMONEST ONE IS THE ONE BUILT FOR A STOCK BIKE OR ONE WITH A SIMPLE AFTERMARKET CAN WITH A dB KILLER AND PREFERABLY A CATALYTIC CONVERTER, ALTHOUGH IT WILL WORK WITH JUST A dB KILLER. IT WILL NOT PERFORM OPTIMALLY IF YOU HAVE AN OPEN PIPE AND A ROCK STRAINER IN PLACE OF A PROPER AIR FILTER.

Mark has developed a few maps for different pipes as they all have slightly different requirements but obviously to do individual development work requires access to a machine so equipped. The 'Basic' stock/dBk/CC map will work reasonably and safely though as long as the air filter hasn't been screwed around with. FWIW there is very, very little, if anything, to be gained by changing the filter and it opens a can of worms WRT fuelling at certain points.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 13, 2014, 11:26:55 PM
Should the O2 sensor be removed if it's been turned off , Don't they get carbon'd up if not in use ?


I didn't bother removing mine, and it never got chogged up. I never checked, but I suspect the heater stays operational even if lambda is switched off. When I pulled it out, it was clean as a whistle after more than 6000km.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on June 14, 2014, 01:16:44 AM

I didn't bother removing mine, and it never got chogged up. I never checked, but I suspect the heater stays operational even if lambda is switched off. When I pulled it out, it was clean as a whistle after more than 6000km.
Ok good to know, I suspected it was still powered
Vasco, if got a stock air filter system, an aftermarket pipe with a db killer fitted, no cat fitted.
I've managed to set up all cables and software, also in the process of hooking up an innovate LM2.
I'm not chasing any extra performance but maybe some gain in fuel economy when at highway speeds.
Pm'ing address cheers
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on June 14, 2014, 01:43:30 AM
Sent.

Nikwax, check yer mail too.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: czakky82 on June 14, 2014, 07:49:00 AM
Thank you guys for this write up! It has helped a guy who can rarely find all the keys on the keyboard (me) make sense of this awesome program. ;-T

Has anybody had much luck with finding v11 Sport maps? I am in my experimental phase and would like to see what's out there.

Thanks Bill

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on June 15, 2014, 05:32:11 AM
Received the map, thanks guys. It definitely made an improvement.
Smoother throughout the rev range.  
It definitely idles better.
  And, I,ve only done 50 km on the new map, but it looks like it might be around  1/2 a litre per 100 km better on fuel( City /Hwy combined) That's another 15 Mins riding between fill ups.
It doesn't sound like much, but this one time , in band camp , I had to push a bike............
A new exhaust and more testing to follow. :bike
(Post #69......... Might be my lucky night)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 19, 2014, 08:58:14 PM
I don't see the exe file for the drivers. What am I not seeing?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 19, 2014, 09:08:19 PM
Were did you download the drivers from? If from the FTDI site they will be zipped.

Download the very latest drivers:

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%20v2.10.00%20WHQL%20Certified.zip

Unzip them, but do not install. Plug in the cable to a USB port and when Windoze tries to install a driver, point it at the directory where the unzipped drivers are. After the install is done, try connecting to the bike. Make sure the fly leads from the 3 pin adapter cable are connected to the battery.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 20, 2014, 08:30:18 AM
Thanks Beetle! My Windows 8.1 machine was a little obtuse. On my Windows 7 machine it works much cleaner.

I also think I ordered the incorrect cable. I've got another one come for Saturday.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 21, 2014, 05:42:16 PM
There also setup un exe shape available:

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM20830_Setup.exe
http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%20v2.10.00%20WHQL%20Certified.exe

Run these before you connect the cable first time. Bottom one is newest one, and windows 8(.1) gets this from windows update too if you let windows get the driver from windows update. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on June 21, 2014, 08:23:13 PM
I ran into an issue today on a Bassa. I've had this happen before, but today I found a 'fix'.
I tried to set the idle trim. For some reason, this bike was at -94. Nothing I did would change the trim, it stayed at -94. I fired up my old VDSTS software. Same thing, stuck at -94.
I was doing was following the software instructions to set the trim. After changing the value and doing the shutdown, I was waiting 30 seconds or more before starting up GuzziDiag (or VDSTS) again. But when I tried unplugging the 15M during the shutdown to totally shut down the ECU. That worked every time. Odd.

Not sure if the power cycle was clearing something or what was going on, but if you have trouble setting the idle trim, pull the plug on the ECU after it has powered off.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 21, 2014, 08:31:02 PM
Paul, when I try the links you provided I get this message, "This Operation Requires Elevation." 

I have the 2.10.00 driver installed. I can't get the pc to talk to the ECU. Uninstall, reinstall, reboot, etc., etc.

I printed the FTDI users manual too, no luck.

I give up.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 22, 2014, 04:53:02 PM
Paul, when I try the links you provided I get this message, "This Operation Requires Elevation." 


That just means you require administrator rights to complete the install.


Quote
I have the 2.10.00 driver installed. I can't get the pc to talk to the ECU. Uninstall, reinstall, reboot, etc., etc.

If you have v2.10.00 drivers installed, you already have the latest drivers. They are the same drivers in Paul's link.


Quote
I give up.

Don't do that!

First up, try the test tool to see if you actually have a connection: CLICKY (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/AdapterTest_V1.01.zip)

If that fails and the drivers are installed, then it can be either a bad cable or something in Windoze (firewall, virus software) stopping the connection.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 22, 2014, 05:08:33 PM
Pete,
the cables you have do have the 232rl chip?
The led on the adapter is on when connected to the bike?
What Bike?
If you go in device manager, and goto the com ports, when the usb is connected to the computer, what do you see as driver at the highest com port number? That should be the ftdi

 just like this, this is win 8.1

(http://s22.postimg.org/idp3a1hrl/ftdi.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 22, 2014, 05:12:06 PM
Wayne,

Setting Co, is working only if there are no errors, and tps value is in range. When tps is to low, it won't work too. I suppose you have that right so that wouldn't be the case. These are conditions the 15m software defines, not guzzidag, as you see that vdst won't do it too.


I ran into an issue today on a Bassa. I've had this happen before, but today I found a 'fix'.
I tried to set the idle trim. For some reason, this bike was at -94. Nothing I did would change the trim, it stayed at -94. I fired up my old VDSTS software. Same thing, stuck at -94.
I was doing was following the software instructions to set the trim. After changing the value and doing the shutdown, I was waiting 30 seconds or more before starting up GuzziDiag (or VDSTS) again. But when I tried unplugging the 15M during the shutdown to totally shut down the ECU. That worked every time. Odd.

Not sure if the power cycle was clearing something or what was going on, but if you have trouble setting the idle trim, pull the plug on the ECU after it has powered off.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on June 22, 2014, 06:57:16 PM
Setting Co, is working only if there are no errors, and tps value is in range.

I'm thinking that there was an error in memory that I didn't notice. By pulling the plug on the ECU, I was clearing the memory.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 22, 2014, 07:30:13 PM
I'm thinking that there was an error in memory that I didn't notice. By pulling the plug on the ECU, I was clearing the memory.


I know you don't think the 150mv setting is important, but is that what Paul is saying?
Quote
and tps value is in range
Certainly no offense intended...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 22, 2014, 08:32:32 PM
Thank you.

This is with my 2013 Stelvio.

I've turned off my firewall and antivirus, verified the driver via device manager.

I'll open up the cables to verify the chip.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on June 22, 2014, 08:44:46 PM
Peter, it really is worth persevering. While I haven't actually experienced a Rexxer mapped Stelvio the G8 I rode that had a 'Stock' Rexxer map was blubbery-rich all over. Whether this is normal and the result of the tuning process or an aberration I can't say.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on June 22, 2014, 08:49:13 PM
What a thread. Learned so much right here. Thanks so much! ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 22, 2014, 08:59:21 PM
Here's the chips from the two cables I have.

I am now really question what I received from Amazon as both layouts are completely different and none of the chips are 232rl. At least I recognize the Ti logo on one of them...

Thoughts gentlemen?

The good thing is, with Prime, I got them for $9.00 each in two days.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/pmarcell1964/chip1_zpse9abdd00.jpg (http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/pmarcell1964/chip1_zpse9abdd00.jpg)

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/pmarcell1964/20140622_204132_zps9e94a35f.jpg (http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/pmarcell1964/20140622_204132_zps9e94a35f.jpg)

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/pmarcell1964/20140622_204132_zps9e94a35f.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/pmarcell1964/media/20140622_204132_zps9e94a35f.jpg.html)

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/pmarcell1964/chip1_zpse9abdd00.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/pmarcell1964/media/chip1_zpse9abdd00.jpg.html)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 22, 2014, 09:01:37 PM
No kidding!  :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on June 22, 2014, 09:19:17 PM
I went ahead and ordered this cable set from the UK that is specifically for GuzziDiag. Pete had posted this on the AF1 site a couple of weeks ago, however I'd already ordered the cables from Amazon.

http://www.lonelec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=50
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on June 22, 2014, 09:33:26 PM
I know you don't think the 150mv setting is important, but is that what Paul is saying? Certainly no offense intended...

No. I was at 3.6 degrees as required. (3.58 actually if I recall.) It was the clearing of memory that enabled the throttle trim.
And yes, going through the 150mv setting is goofy IMHO. You never see anyone with a CARC bike doing that.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 22, 2014, 11:04:00 PM
Hellgate, that cable is no good. But you obviously figured that out. :D

You did right ordering from Lonelec. I've updated the first post in this thread with a link to their kit.




Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 23, 2014, 01:38:52 AM
first cable has a chiphead 340 chip on it. They might mwork if you connect pin 4 and 5 on the big black connector. But needs the 340 driver too then, if windows didn't find that self.

Amazon cables are mostly wrong. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Jukebox on June 23, 2014, 02:04:59 AM
Hi Hellgate
I ordered the cables Mark (Beetle) posted and all good.

Harry
Title: Re:
Post by: Hellgate on June 23, 2014, 09:32:52 AM
Thanks again everyone!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 23, 2014, 01:18:42 PM
No. I was at 3.6 degrees as required. (3.58 actually if I recall.) It was the clearing of memory that enabled the throttle trim.
And yes, going through the 150mv setting is goofy IMHO. You never see anyone with a CARC bike doing that.

I was just telling the things I know that make that you can't set CO. 
A carc (excluded the bellagio) has a linear tps that you can't adjust mechanically. Only with reset tps from diagnostics, that marks the throttle closed as starting point.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Birch71 on June 24, 2014, 01:49:52 PM
With all the stuff out there on the 8v Griso, has anyone done work on the 2v?

I still have the stock can, but might go Arrow or the GuzziTech underside can.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 24, 2014, 04:54:39 PM
With all the stuff out there on the 8v Griso, has anyone done work on the 2v?


Yep. I have a 2V Griso map. For exhausts with catcon & dB killers. Should work on the Arrow. I expect it won't work with the GT exhaust.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 01, 2014, 08:02:08 PM
Hi, folks.

I have just connect the cables for the first time, and am trying to get Reader to function.  First, the basics:


When I launch reader, it asks me to name the bin file, which I do.  It then tells me to have the ignition off for at least 10 seconds (which it has been), then click OK, and then switch ignition on (which I do).  The counter then counts down from 20 seconds, and them prompts to turn the ignition off.  It doesn't seem that a connection is made, and the bin file is empty.  

Edit:   I do not hear the fuel pump.

Any thoughts as to what I am doing wrong?

Thanks!
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 02, 2014, 03:21:07 AM
Shauwn, first try to connect with guzzidiag diagnostics, then you know the chain(hardware/software) works.
If that works , the connetion to a v11 might be time  critical. so after you turn ignition on, as soon as possible, push the ok button
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 02, 2014, 05:22:16 AM
Hi, Paul.

I should have mentioned that I did also try Guzzidiag without success.  Same sort of thing where it would time out.  I did also try to do things more quickly, but no dice.  Will try again, and see what I come up with.

Thanks,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 02, 2014, 06:15:43 AM
If you look in windows devicemanager, at the com port, look what driver it has loaded, is that a ftdi driver?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on July 02, 2014, 09:11:19 AM
That happened to me on the first try; turned out I had grabbed the wrong software package for my ECU. Gah! Downloaded the correct one and I was off to the races.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on July 02, 2014, 09:12:39 PM
F@C YES!!! I am connected! You guys are right, the app rocks!  ~;

The cables arrived from the UK in about 9 days. Thank you Royal Mail!

<edit>

Any guidance on TunerPro? Specifically on bin files vs. XDF files? I just want to see what the Rexxer map looks like.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 02, 2014, 10:06:54 PM
You load an XDF to configure TunerPro for your type of bin file. Then you load the bin file.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on July 02, 2014, 10:20:34 PM
Do I convert the bin to an XDF then? Is that done via Tuner Pro?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 02, 2014, 10:38:13 PM
In Tunerpro, under XDF, select the XDF needed to translate your BIN. Then under File, select your BIN.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 02, 2014, 10:42:41 PM
I'm gunshy of giving too much advice apropos of Tunerpro as I leave development to Mark but downloading the map should be easy and then opening it is in my experience, as Wayne sez.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hellgate on July 02, 2014, 10:51:42 PM
Got it! Thanks again.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 02, 2014, 11:06:34 PM
If you look in windows devicemanager, at the com port, look what driver it has loaded, is that a ftdi driver?

Hi, Paul.

Just got home from work, so too late to check tonight.  However, I believe that it is an FTDI driver.  I will have a look to confirm as soon as I can.

Thanks again for your help!

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 03, 2014, 01:51:47 PM
Ok boys, I'm wired up and everything Guzzidiag seems to be working.

I need a recommendation for a map.

2012 Stelvio NTX
free-flow air filter with open cover
aftermarket exhaust

I currently have the stock map and a terrible problem with fueling at 2000-3000 rpm and another lesser glitch between 4000-5000.

I take my bike in the woods, offroad a lot.  I'm often in tractor-pulling situations where my rpm may be in the lower section of the tach trying to pull myself out of a hole.

Any advice or map suggestions will be greatly, greatly and humbly appreciated.

I thank everybody for their efforts to make GDiag available and for all of you posting to help riders avail themselves of its benefits.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: roofus on July 03, 2014, 02:10:04 PM
I have a Norge 2012 8V.

Should I be using IAW5x Reader and Writer or IAW15x Reader and Writer?

Thanks!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 03, 2014, 02:34:19 PM
Since all carc bikes have the iaw 5am you need the 5x reader/writer.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 03, 2014, 03:32:57 PM
2012 Stelvio NTX
free-flow air filter with open cover
aftermarket exhaust

I currently have the stock map and a terrible problem with fueling at 2000-3000 rpm and another lesser glitch between 4000-5000.

I take my bike in the woods, offroad a lot.  I'm often in tractor-pulling situations where my rpm may be in the lower section of the tach trying to pull myself out of a hole.

Any advice or map suggestions will be greatly, greatly and humbly appreciated.



Need torque? Put the stock airfilter back in and return airbox to closed/normal.  The 8V doesn't need an open airbox. Besides, you want low down torque, not top end power.

What exhaust? I may have a solution for you, but it won't work with an open airbox.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: roofus on July 03, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
Since all carc bikes have the iaw 5am you need the 5x reader/writer.

Thanks!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 03, 2014, 07:18:33 PM
If you look in windows devicemanager, at the com port, look what driver it has loaded, is that a ftdi driver?

Hi, Paul.

Yes, the driver is FTDI:

Thanks,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 04, 2014, 01:31:57 AM
For a 2003 le mans, could be with a 15m or 15rc. What is the ecu in the bike? I think in the USA there were no CAT versions so they all have a 15m. Choose v11 sport as bike type in guzzidiag.  And should show 15m in left bottom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 04, 2014, 05:18:04 AM
Hi, Paul.

This is a US bike (although I am in Canada), and I am pretty certain it is a 15M.  As you have noted, thre is no direct match for my bike in GD, so I had to try to find the closet bike listed.  I initially tried the 2002 Le Mans, then V11 Naked, then V11 Sport, and I believe all came up with a 15M indication.

You mentioned earlier that there are timing issues with the 15M.  The computer (Atom 330) that I have in the garage is quite slow; could this be contributing to the issue?  The GD applications seem to be running quickly enough, but not sure about what is happening in the background.  Most things seem to take twice as long as on other machines.

I'll try again tonight when I get home, and might try another computer.  Thanks again for your help.

Thanks,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 04, 2014, 06:26:39 AM

Need torque? Put the stock airfilter back in and return airbox to closed/normal.  The 8V doesn't need an open airbox. Besides, you want low down torque, not top end power.

What exhaust? I may have a solution for you, but it won't work with an open airbox.




Sure.

I'll restore the cover on the airbox.

I'm running a MIVV muffler with the baffle installed.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 04, 2014, 06:40:33 AM
David? Do you have the Guzzidiag and reader/writer software and cables? Mark is flying off to Japan today or tomorrow and while he plans to be in contact he will obviously be busy. I have all the current map iterations I believe, if you want to try the Stelvio map? Give me a hoy and I'll flick it off to you.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 04, 2014, 10:46:19 AM
David? Do you have the Guzzidiag and reader/writer software and cables? Mark is flying off to Japan today or tomorrow and while he plans to be in contact he will obviously be busy. I have all the current map iterations I believe, if you want to try the Stelvio map? Give me a hoy and I'll flick it off to you.

Pete

Yes, Pete.  Thanks.

I do have the Guzzidiag set-up.  I've hooked it up and everything works fine.  I was just asking about maps that I can try.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

leafman60@hotmail.com     is a good email address
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 04, 2014, 04:56:05 PM
Map sent.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 04, 2014, 05:42:53 PM
Hi, Paul.

This is a US bike (although I am in Canada), and I am pretty certain it is a 15M.  As you have noted, thre is no direct match for my bike in GD, so I had to try to find the closet bike listed.  I initially tried the 2002 Le Mans, then V11 Naked, then V11 Sport, and I believe all came up with a 15M indication.

You mentioned earlier that there are timing issues with the 15M.  The computer (Atom 330) that I have in the garage is quite slow; could this be contributing to the issue?  The GD applications seem to be running quickly enough, but not sure about what is happening in the background.  Most things seem to take twice as long as on other machines.

I'll try again tonight when I get home, and might try another computer.  Thanks again for your help.

Thanks,
Shaun

Well I use an asus netbook without any problem, sae atom I think. Timing what I meant,  is more that the 15m ande 15RC are different in that part. So therefore it does matter in guzzidiag which one you choose. 

Also open up the thing with the led, look what is written on the chips, if you have a 232rl in it. sometimes you don't get an 232rl but a cheaper less capable ftdi chip.
Or the adapter cable is wrong made, we ghad that before. there are connection pictures earlier in this thread I think
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 04, 2014, 09:36:26 PM

I think I'm doing everything correctly.  My hookup cable has only the positive lead that attaches to the battery.  No negative lead but everything seems to work.  I guess it grounds through the ECU.

I have properly saved my stock map. I can also see all the measurements and watch the TPS change when I twist the throttle grip. I have received several maps from fellow Guzzi friends but I have not yet copied them over and tried to install them.

I have just a few questions.

1. When I open the WRITE program and click the 3-dot button to open the map files, there are no files there.  Is this correct?  I was assuming there would be various fuel maps from which to select already saved there.

2. I am showing 4.6 on my TPS value for a '12 Stelvio.  When I try to reset the TPS, after I click the RESET button, the button changes color but nothing happens and the TPS value remains at 4.6. Am I doing something wrong?  Is 4.6 the correct value for the TPS?

3.  How do you turn off the lamda sensors?





Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 04, 2014, 10:50:44 PM
Well I use an asus netbook without any problem, sae atom I think. Timing what I meant,  is more that the 15m ande 15RC are different in that part. So therefore it does matter in guzzidiag which one you choose.  

Also open up the thing with the led, look what is written on the chips, if you have a 232rl in it. sometimes you don't get an 232rl but a cheaper less capable ftdi chip.
Or the adapter cable is wrong made, we ghad that before. there are connection pictures earlier in this thread I think


Hi, Paul.

Okay, now I'm beginning to worry.  I have tried two computers, two OBD cables, confirmed drivers, etc.  The only thing I haven't tried a second one of is a motorcycle.  Does this mean I must go out and buy another motorcycle now?  :)  I guess I also haven't tried another Fiat 3-pin cable either.  

I did try 15RC version, but that didn't work.  I tried disabling Windows firewall with no effect.

Here is an image of one of the cables:

(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/GuzziDiag005Med_zps4ff97d46.jpg)

Seems like the right one, and the test utility works.  

Not sure where to go from here.  Maybe I should buy a new matched set of cables from the new vendor listed at the beginning of this thread?

Thanks for your continued patience and assistance!

Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 04, 2014, 11:03:46 PM
Lambda is turned on or off when the map is being modified using Tunerpro. When you load a map up it will either already have the lambda off or on.

With the 'Find the map'? When you click on the triple dot box it should open up  box with a 'Choose a file' bar at the top. On mine it opens up the 'My Computer' drop down menu. I then scroll down to 'Desktop' and thence to 'My Documents' and in that I've got 'Downloads' which is where I keep all my maps in a 'Griso Maps' folder. It sorta looks like this.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5502/14576543845_e3aac9879f_z.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/44512000@N00/14576543845/)

You choose the map, for instance this one.

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2936/14575778002_c1c11ede37_z.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/44512000@N00/14575778002/)

And then hit load and

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5078/14390161877_b6eacbf0dd_z.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/44512000@N00/14390161877/)

Then as long as you are connected to the right com port etc you hit write, it'll tell you to turn on the ignition and away you go.

Yes, I know I shouldn't need to take pics and should be able to do this with screenshots but I'm too stupid. So thort me already!

Pete

PS After you have uploaded the map go back to the Guzzidiag program and check and re-set the TPS value and re-set the self learning parameters. After the bike is warm, ie above 60*C, you can adjust the CO trim.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 04, 2014, 11:33:21 PM
Leaf, the writer does not have a repository of maps. You can load maps stored on your drives, but you need to source them yourself.

A TPS value of 4.6 is OK. Normal range is  4.6 to 4.8.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 05, 2014, 05:21:18 AM
Shawn,

The kkl adpter looks ok. The test that works, tests if the computer can communicate with the ftdi chip, the part behind that can't be tested that way.
Now the other part the 3 pin adapter, here is how it should be connected inside, you can measure yours to check.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9559/adapterkabel.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 05, 2014, 06:18:09 AM
Thank you, Pete, Mark, John and others.  I was on the right track but wasn't sure.   Now I understand.

You guys are providing a great help.

When I get this worked out, I plan to send a donation to the Guzzidiag site. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 05, 2014, 05:04:22 PM
Well darn.  I went out today and hooked everything back up, followed the directions from Pete, Mark et al and, bam-bam-bam everything worked fine.  I loaded up one of the new maps sent to me by Pete, the computer said all was okay.  After loading the new map, my TPS was off so I reset it back to 4.6.  I even warmed the bike up and the idle was very nice so I didn't trim the CO.

I took the bike out for several miles, and sure 'nuff, I still have a huge problem between 2000 and 3000 rpm. The new map made very little difference. In any gear, at any speed, if I let the revs fall down into the 2000-3000 range or when I take off from a stop, any throttle roll-on in that rpm range causes severe missing and snatching of the engine.  You'd think you could stall the motor if the throttle was rolled-on hard.

If I back off the throttle and ease it up, the engine will make it to about 2900-3000 where everything smooths out and the motor pulls like a tractor.

The valves are adjusted properly and the throttle bodies are balanced with mercury sticks.

I'm at a loss here. This bike didn't act like this until it had about 15k miles on it.  I now have about 25k.

I guess, I can use TunerPro and go in to try and modify the map and see what happens.  I also wonder of I'm suffering from a crankshaft sensor issue or something else. I keep thinking something other than the fuel map could be the problem.

I had Ian at Riders Hill hook it up to his machine and look at it several months ago and he said he had no idea what the problem could be.  

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 05, 2014, 05:32:53 PM
David, you changed out the plug caps didn't you? To me this sounds very like an ignition break-down issue and it is very similar to the usual effects of having the spark jump to earth rathe than crossing the plug gap.

At idle the VE is very low so the path of least resistance to the spark is across the plug gap. As soon as the throttle is opened though it becomes much harder for the spark to jump so it will try and find another place to get to earth. Then, as the engine speed rises VE again drops off so once again the spark will occur in the combustion chamber. Opening the throttle wider once again increases VE so again the spark seeks an alternative earth path.

Look, this may not be relevant at all but first up I'd do a really close inspection of leaks, caps and plugs. Try sticking a strobe on the HT leads and taping it to the tank so you can watch to see if the spark is dropping out at the 'Jerky' points. To me this isn't sounding like a 'Mapping' issue per-se, its some sort of 'Mechanical/Electronic' issue.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 05, 2014, 06:18:04 PM
Shawn,

The kkl adpter looks ok. The test that works, tests if the computer can communicate with the ftdi chip, the part behind that can't be tested that way.
Now the other part the 3 pin adapter, here is how it should be connected inside, you can measure yours to check.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9559/adapterkabel.jpg)

Hi, Paul.

Thanks for the info.  I used my trusty meter to check continuity, and found all to be in order except pin 4.  That one doesn't seem to connect to anything.  Do you think that this is the source of the problem?

Edit:   By the way, my cable is one of those with both positive and negative alligator clips.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 05, 2014, 06:30:45 PM
Did you already convert the airbox back?  Not sure if it would have an effect, but seems worth considering.

Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 05, 2014, 06:38:32 PM
Hi, Paul.

Thanks for the info.  I used my trusty meter to check continuity, and found all to be in order except pin 4.  That one doesn't seem to connect to anything.  Do you think that this is the source of the problem?

Edit:   By the way, my cable is one of those with both positive and negative alligator clips.

Cheers,
Shaun
Depends on the other side, the kkl I have has 4 and 5 connected, so there would not be a problem. 4 is chassis ground, 5 is signal ground. If inside the KKL, the 4 and 5 are not connected to each other make a bridge inside the connector between them.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 05, 2014, 06:54:34 PM
Depends on the other side, the kkl I have has 4 and 5 connected, so there would not be a problem. 4 is chassis ground, 5 is signal ground. If inside the KKL, the 4 and 5 are not connected to each other make a bridge inside the connector between them.

Good point.  Yes, 4 and 5 are bridged on the kkl cable.

Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on July 05, 2014, 09:03:39 PM
CAUTION
If your pet parrot is squawking and annoying the piss out of you, DON'T accidentally connect the Pos red and Neg Black cables arse about face or the Smoke Will come out of the OBD2 cable chips.
 It's a good thing they are relatively cheap  ;D
I tried to catch the smoke so I could put it back in , but the wind was blowing and it got away on me  ::)
For my next trick......... A dedicated 2 pin keyed plug so old Ten Thumbs here can't do this again
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 05, 2014, 10:26:36 PM
CAUTION
If your pet parrot is squawking and annoying the piss out of you, DON'T accidentally connect the Pos red and Neg Black cables arse about face or the Smoke Will come out of the OBD2 cable chips.
 It's a good thing they are relatively cheap  ;D
I tried to catch the smoke so I could put it back in , but the wind was blowing and it got away on me  ::)
For my next trick......... A dedicated 2 pin keyed plug so old Ten Thumbs here can't do this again

Ah, yes, the magic smoke!  I've seen it a few times myself, unfortunately.  Never with a parrot cheering section, though...

Well, good luck with your new cable.  I've just ordered a new set from Lonelec because I'm tired of fighting with these ones, and want to eliminate that variable.  I will be travelling for a while anyway, so the delay won't bother me -- they'll likely be waiting for me when I get back.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 05, 2014, 11:55:05 PM
David, you changed out the plug caps didn't you? To me this sounds very like an ignition break-down issue and it is very similar to the usual effects of having the spark jump to earth rathe than crossing the plug gap.

At idle the VE is very low so the path of least resistance to the spark is across the plug gap. As soon as the throttle is opened though it becomes much harder for the spark to jump so it will try and find another place to get to earth. Then, as the engine speed rises VE again drops off so once again the spark will occur in the combustion chamber. Opening the throttle wider once again increases VE so again the spark seeks an alternative earth path.

Look, this may not be relevant at all but first up I'd do a really close inspection of leaks, caps and plugs. Try sticking a strobe on the HT leads and taping it to the tank so you can watch to see if the spark is dropping out at the 'Jerky' points. To me this isn't sounding like a 'Mapping' issue per-se, its some sort of 'Mechanical/Electronic' issue.

Pete


Yes, I had trouble with the stock plug caps and replaced them with the NGK caps along with properly fitting weather seals. I did a long pictorial of this operation.

Later on, I had a coil go out that stranded me and the coil was replaced. 

I'm going to trouble shoot the plug wires as suggested and see what I can determine. 

What makes me suspicious of something electrical is the fact that the motor did not originally behave this way.

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 06, 2014, 12:46:43 AM
I reckon you're on the right track.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on July 06, 2014, 02:54:04 AM

Later on, I had a coil go out that stranded me and the coil was replaced. 


Did the bike start misbehaving soon after that? Was it replaced with an original coil?
Have the spark plugs ever been changed?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 06, 2014, 07:14:34 AM
I had my current problem before the coil went bad.

My plugs are not new so perhaps I should try new plugs too.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 06, 2014, 08:12:42 AM
Ok, maybe guzzi made a mistake and switched colors on the 3 pin?
1 brown
2 black
3 blue

 3 pin connectors push in each other firm?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on July 06, 2014, 08:17:53 AM
It sounds obvious I know, but when something starts to go wrong on any vehicle of mine I always think about anything I might have changed just prior to that. It certainly sounds like ignition, but maybe the airbox mod has an effect? Did you go back to stock?
I don't know how much the ECU "learns" over time. It probably won't fix the problem but it's worthwhile to reset the learning parameters the next time you connect to Guzzidiag.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzisteve on July 06, 2014, 12:26:04 PM
Put your laptop in the saddle bag and log sensors and you will find the cause. This can also be done w/PADS at the dealer(if they know how to use it). If mapping changes didn't cure the stumble it is something mechanical. Clean TB's w/airscrews out, could be a dirty area on TPS, crap on timing sensor, something even on elect connecters.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 06, 2014, 01:15:21 PM
or if you have an Android phone/tablet, there is a diagnostics program that runs on that(scanm5x), connection to the bike with a bluetooth adapter.
And it can log values too
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scantwin.scanmM5.AllinOne 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Porterhouse on July 06, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
Well darn.  I went out today and hooked everything back up, followed the directions from Pete, Mark et al and, bam-bam-bam everything worked fine.  I loaded up one of the new maps sent to me by Pete, the computer said all was okay.  After loading the new map, my TPS was off so I reset it back to 4.6.  I even warmed the bike up and the idle was very nice so I didn't trim the CO.

I took the bike out for several miles, and sure 'nuff, I still have a huge problem between 2000 and 3000 rpm. The new map made very little difference. In any gear, at any speed, if I let the revs fall down into the 2000-3000 range or when I take off from a stop, any throttle roll-on in that rpm range causes severe missing and snatching of the engine.  You'd think you could stall the motor if the throttle was rolled-on hard.

If I back off the throttle and ease it up, the engine will make it to about 2900-3000 where everything smooths out and the motor pulls like a tractor.

The valves are adjusted properly and the throttle bodies are balanced with mercury sticks.

I'm at a loss here. This bike didn't act like this until it had about 15k miles on it.  I now have about 25k.

I guess, I can use TunerPro and go in to try and modify the map and see what happens.  I also wonder of I'm suffering from a crankshaft sensor issue or something else. I keep thinking something other than the fuel map could be the problem.

I had Ian at Riders Hill hook it up to his machine and look at it several months ago and he said he had no idea what the problem could be.  

Any suggestions?

Was this your first map upload?  If so, did you also reset the Autolearning Parameters?  If not, all of the old lambda corrections are still on your ECU.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 06, 2014, 03:44:49 PM
Was this your first map upload?  If so, did you also reset the Autolearning Parameters?  If not, all of the old lambda corrections are still on your ECU.

Now that's a thought.  I did not set the autolearning.  I'll try that.

Also Steve, I'll check the things you mentioned.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 06, 2014, 04:54:18 PM
I'm with Steve. If re-mapping has left the problem intact then the root cause lies elsewhere. It stinks of spark to me but its very hard to tell from half a world away.

To start with I'd try stock airbox and exhaust just to rule out odd problems due to charge transition and cylinder fill issues, (I don't think this will cure it.) then I'd be checking the spark under load. Does it break down if you slowly open the throttle in neutral? Or only when riding?

One further thing, have you checked the valve clearances lately? And had they changed appreciably last time you set them?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 06, 2014, 05:08:35 PM
I really appreciate all of you trying to help!  I need it ! lol

Yes, Pete, I've reinstalled the stock muffler, put the airbox snorkel lid on and checked the valves and TB balance. None of that helped.

My next effort will be to install new spark plugs, then wrap the plug wires in tape and check the coil mountings etc.

I'm also going to remove and look at the crankshaft sensor.

The cutting-out normally happens exactly between 2000-3000 rpm when under load or that it when giving it throttle.   If I baby the throttle and ease it open, I do not notice much of a cut out.

Also, in neutral when stopped, if I do a quick blip of the throttle, say 1/3 of a crank, the engine will cough and die.
Title: Re: Re: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 06, 2014, 05:19:35 PM
CAUTION
If your pet parrot is squawking and annoying the piss out of you, DON'T accidentally connect the Pos red and Neg Black cables arse about face or the Smoke Will come out of the OBD2 cable chips.
 It's a good thing they are relatively cheap  ;D
I tried to catch the smoke so I could put it back in , but the wind was blowing and it got away on me  ::)
For my next trick......... A dedicated 2 pin keyed plug so old Ten Thumbs here can't do this again
ALWAYS connect the back/negative wire to the frame. Then it doesn't matter what you do with the red wire, it won't let out smoke.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 06, 2014, 05:21:20 PM
you can even cut the black wire off, it gets the ground over the 3 pin plug, so you can't switch wires ever.
Title: Re: Re: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 06, 2014, 05:26:45 PM

Also, in neutral when stopped, if I do a quick blip of the throttle, say 1/3 of a crank, the engine will cough and die.

Sounds like a bad TPS.
Set up Guzzidiag to show a graph of the TPS.
Then, motor off, slowly open, close and open the throttle.  The graph should be smooth.
I've also had such goofy things from vibrating relay contacts and sidestand switchs, just as you pass through certain RPM.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on July 06, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
That is a great idea! How do you do it?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 07, 2014, 02:56:05 AM
That is a great idea! How do you do it?

I can graph it with PADS but I'm not sure of the protocol with Guzzidiag. You should be able to get an idea though just with the engine off and the main parameters page open. Look at the TPS reading as you open the throttle slowly. It should be linear. If it suddenly stops and then jumps a large amount or drops to zero or does anything weird? That's the issue. I haven't had a TPS go bad on the 50mm TB's yet, note 'YET'!

I like Wayne's idea of clutch or sidestand switch too. This really doesn't sound like a mapping issue.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 07, 2014, 04:31:33 AM
Now that's a thought.  I did not set the autolearning.  I'll try that.

Also Steve, I'll check the things you mentioned.


Thanks Steve.

Leaf, resetting your learned parameters is paramount when uploading a new map.
Otherwise, the trims will work against a map designed not to be trimmed.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 07, 2014, 08:43:33 AM
Will do and report back!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 08, 2014, 08:16:48 PM
Ok, maybe guzzi made a mistake and switched colors on the 3 pin?
1 brown
2 black
3 blue

 3 pin connectors push in each other firm?

Hi, Paul.

Finally got a chance to check the cable on the bike, and I think it looks right:

(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/ECUDiagnosticPlug_zps212b0985.jpg)

Brown/Red
Black
Blue

The connection on the 3-pin cables seem to fit very well.   Not sure where to go next...  :-\

Thanks,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Suncoast on July 09, 2014, 02:47:48 PM

Thanks Steve.

Leaf, resetting your learned parameters is paramount when uploading a new map.
Otherwise, the trims will work against a map designed not to be trimmed.


How do you reset the learned parameters?

Thanks again!! ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 09, 2014, 03:31:13 PM
How do you reset the learned parameters?

Thanks again!! ;-T

In the actors menu, same page as tps reset.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 14, 2014, 06:20:25 PM
**********DING  DING   DING *************

My Stelvio is fixed.  I found the problem: spark plugs.

After all that effort and time, the darn plugs turned out to be the problem. The old pair had about 15k miles on them and they looked good.  I had cleaned them but not replaced them.

After going through the re-mapping, checking my valve lash, throttle synch, plug wires and several other things, I ordered and installed a pair of DENSO IRIDIUM plugs IU24A, 5365.  The iridiums are single electrode.

These new plugs immediately showed results when I first started the bike. It fired off immediately and set into a nice idle.  I warmed the bike up for a few miles and then started a series of low end pulls in various gears from 2000 rpm on up. I never had a hiccup.

I know. I know. It's a simple, obvious thing that I should have tried early on but I didn't.  I looked at the plugs but their appearance was deceiving.

Anyway, in the end, with help from all of you here on this site, I learned how to change maps and do many things that will be useful for me in the long run.  Again, I thank everybody for the advice, maps and help.

One thing's for sure. Right now I have a highly-tuned Stelvio with all settings within a gnat's butt of being perfect.  The thing runs soooo good.

______  

2012 Stelvio NTX

Stock spark plugs :  NGK CR8EKB

Replacement:  DENSO IRIDIUM IU24A (5365)

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzi ride on July 14, 2014, 06:41:21 PM
Glad to here ;-T I've been following this thread.
Title: Re:
Post by: Hellgate on July 14, 2014, 06:43:55 PM
Great to know Leaf! :)

I'm glad to hear your big girl is happy again.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 14, 2014, 06:51:54 PM
Odd, Eh?

I haven't had plug problem in years and then yesterday I had a bloke turn up with a single TB smallblock that was running like crap. Checked all the usual suspects and found nothing so I pulled the plugs and found they had been swapped to Champions, (Never a good thing in my book.) but what was really noticeable was that not only were the gaps way, way too large but the center electrode had eroded at an angle! Very odd!

Anyway new plugs, re-set the self learning parameters and everything was golden again. I was just surprised as plugs, even Champions, are so good nowadays as to be virtually foolproof!

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on July 14, 2014, 07:42:25 PM
Odd, Eh?

I haven't had plug problem in years and then yesterday I had a bloke turn up with a single TB smallblock that was running like crap. Checked all the usual suspects and found nothing so I pulled the plugs and found they had been swapped to Champions, (Never a good thing in my book.) but what was really noticeable was that not only were the gaps way, way too large but the center electrode had eroded at an angle! Very odd!

Anyway new plugs, re-set the self learning parameters and everything was golden again. I was just surprised as plugs, even Champions, are so good nowadays as to be virtually foolproof!

Pete

I had a lawnmower problem I posted about a couple of weeks back. Acted *exactly* like a bad coil. I'd replaced that coil 130 hours ago. Tested the (new) plugs on my aircraft plug tester just for grins, and sure enough.. the new plug was bad. Happened to be Champion, but....
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Penderic on July 14, 2014, 09:27:10 PM
Maybe counterfeits? Spark plugs are not inexpensive these days.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on July 15, 2014, 02:10:25 AM

After all that effort and time, the darn plugs turned out to be the problem. The old pair had about 15k miles on them and they looked good.  I had cleaned them but not replaced


Great News! And like you said, now you have a perfectly set up bike.

The Stelvio maintenance schedule calls for new spark plugs every 10,000 km, which is the same interval as the oil. Seems a bit excessive, and you can probably stretch it, but it seems not too much. :-).

If you get bored, you can still go back to playing with the maps! :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 15, 2014, 04:37:22 AM
Great News! And like you said, now you have a perfectly set up bike.

The Stelvio maintenance schedule calls for new spark plugs every 10,000 km, which is the same interval as the oil. Seems a bit excessive, and you can probably stretch it, but it seems not too much. :-).

If you get bored, you can still go back to playing with the maps! :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, 10,000 KM seems ridiculous to me.  The iridium plugs are much more durable than the stock type plugs so maybe I will not experience any problems for a while. 

I do know now that any hiccups from a seemingly properly tuned machine may be due to the spark plugs.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on July 15, 2014, 04:19:58 PM
Okay, I have read this entire thread and did not see the answer I was looking for. I hooked everything up to my bike, and got nothing but a red light on my cable.  No gauge dance or anything.  I tried to check my drivers and could not find any FTDI drivers, so I downloaded them from the link in the thread. Could not get them to go to the device. I pulled the connecter apart and the chip stated CH340T.  I bought the cable off Amazon, so I guess with the data in hand, I have the wrong cable. This is the wrong cable, correct? 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waltr on July 15, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
My first cable that ended up in the round file was from Amazon.  Ordered on from EBAY but I believe there is a link in this thread for the correct cable.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 15, 2014, 05:22:46 PM
This is the wrong cable, correct? 


Correct.  Guaranteed correct cables HERE (http://www.lonelec.co.uk)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on July 15, 2014, 05:25:02 PM

Correct.  Guaranteed correct cables HERE (http://www.lonelec.co.uk)

Been to that website. Waiting to get  response from them the total cost in USD, and what just the USB adapter alone would cost.  I already have the FIAT adapter.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: damoru on July 16, 2014, 12:49:07 AM
My map comes with a -128 CO Trim value. Is it normal? Don't know if it comes from stock, or if someone tuned it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 16, 2014, 01:58:39 AM
If lambda is switched on, CO trim has no effect. If lambda is off and your CO trim is -128 then something is not right. That is a big adjustment.

What bike? The map may not be set up right.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 16, 2014, 02:31:38 AM
My map comes with a -128 CO Trim value. Is it normal? Don't know if it comes from stock, or if someone tuned it.

Well Co trim is not in the map, it is a value stored in another memory part in the ecu. Or do you mean you got a map from someone who told you the CO should be set -128?   Co trim goes from -128 to +128, so 0 is the middle, and normaly starting point.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 16, 2014, 02:40:42 PM
Paul, others, I am trying out several maps on my Stelvio NTX.  Do you have one that you'd be so kind as to send my way for me to try?

Mine has an aftermarket MIVV muffler with baffle installed.

Many thanks

David L.

leafman60@hotmail.com
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 16, 2014, 04:38:41 PM
you have a two lambda model?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on July 16, 2014, 06:16:44 PM
Yes, my Stelvio is 2 lambda
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 24, 2014, 07:20:21 PM
Hi, Paul.

Finally got a chance to check the cable on the bike, and I think it looks right:

(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/ECUDiagnosticPlug_zps212b0985.jpg)

Brown/Red
Black
Blue

The connection on the 3-pin cables seem to fit very well.   Not sure where to go next...  :-\

Thanks,
Shaun


Hi Paul.

Just back from vacation, and found the new cables from LonElec in my mailbox.  So, I have connected everything back up, reloaded drivers (from the LonElec website) and... still no luck.  Device manager shows both USB Serial Converter and COM5 to have FTDI drivers, and the test program works (red light on cable is illuminated).  This makes two computers, three OBD cables, two 3-pin cables without success.  I'm really starting to think that the problem must be on the bike (cable to ECU).     Maybe I should go buy another motorcycle to test on.   ;D

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 24, 2014, 07:46:02 PM
Okay -- happy to report that I am now up and working.  Stupid me -- I didin't realize that the bike would  have to be in neutral to even connect.  Good safety measure, I suppose (even if not planning to run the bike).  I can't remember if it was in gear when I was testing before, so I might go back and test the other cables. 

Sincere thanks for all the patience and input.  Hope this is of help to someone else!

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 24, 2014, 08:48:39 PM
Okay -- happy to report that I am now up and working.  Stupid me -- I didin't realize that the bike would  have to be in neutral to even connect.  Good safety measure, I suppose (even if not planning to run the bike).  I can't remember if it was in gear when I was testing before, so I might go back and test the other cables. 

It does not exactly have to be in neutral. But if you have the sidestand out, then it has to be in neutral, just to power on the ECU on the bike. It is part of  the safety built into the bike itself. Nothing directly to do with GuzziDiag.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 24, 2014, 08:58:05 PM
Thanks, Wayne.  I certainly understood that the lockout features would prevent starting, but didn't realize that they would prevent the ECU from interacting at all.  You learn something new every day!

Funny thing is that I would normally have done this with the bike on the lift table, and would never have even come to realize the restriction.  The only reason I didn't is that I am in the process of taking care of a few issues on the Eldo.  I guess I should be glad that I learned this lesson before it showed up in future and really confused me!

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 01, 2014, 08:48:31 AM
Autel (CH341SER)  Ports    Install failed


I keep getting this when I try to install the drivers.  I have Window 8.1 installed. I have a Lennovo Laptop which is less than a month old.  I am having trouble getting the Guzzi Diag to read the ECU.  It will connect to the ECU, but I can't get it to read or download the current map. I was using the reader program to try and do this.  That program wouldn't connect at all. Am I missing a critical driver??
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 01, 2014, 08:58:03 AM
It will connect to the ECU, but I can't get it to read or download the current map.

Just FYI.
If GuzziDiag by itself is connecting. You can't have GuzziDiag and the reader or writer running at the same time. Only one at a time can get access to the comm port.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 01, 2014, 10:31:49 AM
Oh, okay.  I'll try it again tonight when I get home at 2200.  The error I posted, is that critical, or do I have all the driers I need? 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 01, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
Oh, okay.  I'll try it again tonight when I get home at 2200.  The error I posted, is that critical, or do I have all the driers I need? 

No idea what the error is. I don't think I even installed drivers on my Win 8 machine. But it was a number of months/beers ago.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 01, 2014, 11:26:41 AM
No idea what the error is. I don't think I even installed drivers on my Win 8 machine. But it was a number of months/beers ago.

Thanks Wayne.  When I get home tonight, I'll try to locate where the laptop landed last night in the garage after I um, um, finished using it. ::)  I have three sons who are very tech savvy, while I have to wear high heels to keep my knukles from draggin.  I hate having them show me how to do something on it, they make it look as easy as pissing off the wife.  :wife:  I am bound and determined to master this myself, regardless of how many um, replacement laptops I have to buy to replace the ahhhh, non working ones.  ~; :D 


Stand by for more stupid questions.  ;) 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on August 01, 2014, 03:07:29 PM
Okay, I have read this entire thread and did not see the answer I was looking for. I hooked everything up to my bike, and got nothing but a red light on my cable.  No gauge dance or anything.  I tried to check my drivers and could not find any FTDI drivers, so I downloaded them from the link in the thread. Could not get them to go to the device. I pulled the connecter apart and the chip stated CH340T.  I bought the cable off Amazon, so I guess with the data in hand, I have the wrong cable. This is the wrong cable, correct? 
Hey Stormstruck,
Sounds like your having all the same grief I had initially. The cables from LonElec in the UK are the 'Ducks Nuts' !
It took nearly 3 weeks to get them via post to aus, but when connected for the first time, they installed themselves in the blink of an eye and I had a new com port 5.  I already had the latest FTDI driver on the laptop. I was a bit stunned that it was so easy.
The other cable sets I was using ( cheap copies ) would sometimes work with guzzidiag but not with the writer program, but the next day they would, extremely frustrating stuff.
I think I've waisted a couple of days deleting and downloading new copies of drivers etc trying to get it all going.
Ron

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 01, 2014, 04:18:37 PM
I recieved the cables from LonElec yesterday, and was using them to try and get GD going.  It connected with the ECU, but I was unable to download the current map in the ECU.  WO pointed out to me that you can only run one program at a time. As usual, there was a basic flaw in my technique.  :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 01, 2014, 10:42:14 PM
What should I set the TPS at on an 07 Norge.  Just uploaded the new map and need to reset TPS.  What do I set it at?? ???
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on August 01, 2014, 11:03:29 PM
It should set itself ? Rotate the throttle and allow it to snap back to the idle stop, Click Reset.
On the my Griso it sets at 4.7 % from memory
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 01, 2014, 11:11:44 PM
Yep. Waterbottle's method is the good way to do it. 4.6/4.7/4.8 are all 'normal' values.

It's the butterfly angle, BTW.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 02, 2014, 11:00:08 AM
SUCCESS!!!!  I actually got the new map uploaded, reset the TPS,(it showed  4.7 prior to reset) and it runs!!  No more popping on overrun, it seems to be smoother, and we are checking on the fuel economy.  I did not reset the learned parameters though, do I need to?  Does the Norge have them??  My next battle is to balance the TB's and reset the TPS on the 04 Ballabio.  I already set the valves to .10/.15 per Guziology. Last time I set them to .15/.20 but that was last year.  I looked up Guzziology for the settings and seen they were .10/.15.  Then I looked at last time I set them and I had set them at .15/.20. We'll see if it makes a difference. Now to figure out how to balance the TB's and rest the TPS on the Ballabio.  :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 02, 2014, 11:31:08 AM
New question.  My Ballabio has a Kit ECU, has the MG emblem on it also.  Will DG read and write to it also??
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: molly on August 02, 2014, 11:58:55 AM
SUCCESS!!!!  I actually got the new map uploaded, reset the TPS,(it showed  4.7 prior to reset) and it runs!!  No more popping on overrun, it seems to be smoother, and we are checking on the fuel economy.  I did not reset the learned parameters though, do I need to?  Does the Norge have them??  My next battle is to balance the TB's and reset the TPS on the 04 Ballabio.  I already set the valves to .10/.15 per Guziology. Last time I set them to .15/.20 but that was last year.  I looked up Guzziology for the settings and seen they were .10/.15.  Then I looked at last time I set them and I had set them at .15/.20. We'll see if it makes a difference. Now to figure out how to balance the TB's and rest the TPS on the Ballabio.  :D

Yes the Norge as the learned parameters and you can reset to remove stored data from the lambda. Allow a few hundred miles to check the fuel consumption to get a accurate measure.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 02, 2014, 12:47:18 PM
Yes the Norge as the learned parameters and you can reset to remove stored data from the lambda. Allow a few hundred miles to check the fuel consumption to get a accurate measure.

The Norge has a O2 sensor?? I looked and didn't see one in the pipes.  I can reset the learned tonight by hooking it back up preety quick I think.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzisteve on August 02, 2014, 02:32:20 PM
New question.  My Ballabio has a Kit ECU, has the MG emblem on it also.  Will DG read and write to it also??

For that ECU (15M) you will need to download the 15M Reader & Writer. Different ECU, different reader/writer. AND the TPS is set manually not automatic. You will also have to change the model in preferences and see the 15M in the box on lower left in GuzziDiag.

The Norge O2 is in the collector under trans, it's right below the starter and wiring plug is behind the starter(remove starter cover, you will see).
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 02, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
I was aware of the different ECU, and have those downloaded.  The O2 sensor information is GREATLY  ;-T :bow  appreciated.  I guess now I should go in and shut off the Lamda sensor, and reset the learned parameters.

On the Ballabio I have the balance rod disconnected, and a screw backed out part ways.  I was unable to get a mv reading on my meter, so now I have no idea what my TPS is set at.  Sounds like the GD will clear that up for me lickity split. This is my first ever attempt at balancing a TB and setting the TPS.   This oughta be good!! ::)  Watching this should be some what akin to watching a monkee try and rape a greased football!! :o ;D

I aint skeered!! Foolish perhaps, but not scared!!!! :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 02, 2014, 06:28:59 PM
 I guess now I should go in and shut off the Lamda sensor, and reset the learned parameters.


If it's a map from myself or molly, the Lambda is already off. You don't need to do anything.



Quote
I was unable to get a mv reading on my meter, so now I have no idea what my TPS is set at.  Sounds like the GD will clear that up for me lickity split.



The resolution of the TPS voltage from the ECU is too low for an accurate read by GD, so It won't help with resetting the TPS on your Ballabio. You will still need to use a multimeter.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 02, 2014, 06:36:17 PM

If it's a map from myself or molly, the Lambda is already off. You don't need to do anything.





The resolution of the TPS voltage from the ECU is too low for an accurate read by GD, so It won't help with resetting the TPS on your Ballabio. You will still need to use a multimeter.




I got the map from one of gentlemen associated with GD, so I'll guess that the Lambda is off.  Thanks for the heads up on the TPS reset.  Will GD read the KIT ECU with the Guzzi emblem on it?  Looks like a Guzzi authorized ECU.  ???
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Hit Man on August 02, 2014, 08:21:32 PM
Been to that website. Waiting to get  response from them the total cost in USD, and what just the USB adapter alone would cost.  I already have the FIAT adapter.


Matt - care to share what the total landed cost were for the cables?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 02, 2014, 09:00:33 PM
I got the map from one of gentlemen associated with GD, so I'll guess that the Lambda is off.  Thanks for the heads up on the TPS reset.  Will GD read the KIT ECU with the Guzzi emblem on it?  Looks like a Guzzi authorized ECU.  ???

AFAIK it's a 15x Marelli ECU (15M probably) so yes, it will work.

UPDATE: It's a 15RC ECU.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 02, 2014, 10:41:24 PM

Matt - care to share what the total landed cost were for the cables?

I think about $36.00 after the shipping and currency exchange was said and done.  Cheaper than the $9.00 I wasted on cables that didn't work! ::)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jcb72 on August 03, 2014, 03:01:17 AM
Hi first time post.

Ok got the cables same ones recommended, does anyone have any idea where the diagnostics port is on a 2011 V7 Racer ?

I would like to switch the lamda off and possibly do something to fix with cold starts (if  I take off without a warm up I cannot get from 1st to 2nd gear lol).
If anyone else has tried this on a v7 can you share your experiences.

thanks in advance

JCB
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 03, 2014, 03:17:31 AM
From memory, (I've been on holidays for two weeks, Hooray!) the ECU is on the left hand side under the side panel. Port hangs off a 'Tail from the ECU.

Remove the side panel and fish about  its obvious.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: leafman60 on August 03, 2014, 07:22:55 AM
I just made a trip that I had to cut short but, while covering about 1400 miles, I tested a couple of maps. I'm trying to find the best tradeoff for performance and fuel economy (still looking).

Having a system like Guzzidiag is great.

You just plug up your laptop and download a new map.

Here's a pic of me doing this at my campsite in the mountains of NC. Can't be much easier.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/2014%20July%20BRP%20TRIP/004.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/2014%20July%20BRP%20TRIP/004.jpg.html)
Title: Re:
Post by: Hellgate on August 03, 2014, 08:08:47 AM
Very cool Leaf.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Thunderbox on August 03, 2014, 04:17:52 PM
After thinking about this for a while I am wondering if those people who can't get Guzzidiag to work are connecting to the wrong connector under the seat.  There are 2 connectors that are the same on the Norge.  One is one the right side midway up the seat and the other is in the rear by the fuse panel.

Just saying that maybe some who can't get the system to work are connecting to the wrong connector.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 03, 2014, 06:18:14 PM
After thinking about this for a while I am wondering if those people who can't get Guzzidiag to work are connecting to the wrong connector under the seat.  There are 2 connectors that are the same on the Norge.  One is one the right side midway up the seat and the other is in the rear by the fuse panel.

Just saying that maybe some who can't get the system to work are connecting to the wrong connector.

 Thats with bike with the bosch ABS unit that has a seperate  diag connector, for guzzidiag on ABS bikes, the connector with two wires is the one to use. Three wire there is abs diagnostics.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 03, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
I see  settings for the stepper motor.  Can it be used to rid the bike of the stepper motor raising RPM even when the motor is warm?  I know there is a by-pass that can be built in, but can it be fixed through the ECU?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 03, 2014, 07:21:30 PM
Unfortunately not. That is apparently in the code and can't be modified if I understand Mark correctly.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 03, 2014, 07:26:07 PM
Correct. Some maps have the idle rise by ~300 rpm when the clutch is pulled in. This is hard coded into software.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 03, 2014, 07:35:58 PM
So what happens if I saylower the stepper setting from the 100 it shows to a 0? It shows two differnet numbers on two different displays.  What do they mean??
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 04, 2014, 03:39:17 AM
The stepper values are read-only.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 04, 2014, 08:06:31 AM
The resolution of the TPS voltage from the ECU is too low for an accurate read by GD, so It won't help with resetting the TPS on your Ballabio. You will still need to use a multimeter.

What ???
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 04, 2014, 05:46:32 PM
You can't use the voltage reading, you have to use the TPS angle reading. Sorry for the confusion!  ;D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: 1Sourdough on August 04, 2014, 07:01:50 PM
...oh yeah-  can the tutorial be saved as a sticky? This is a very helpful thread.

You might Bookmark the link for this thread since it doesn't seem to have any sticky on it. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 05, 2014, 05:58:32 PM
Okay, new problem.  While hooked up to GD, I start the Ballabio and lose all readouts.  How can I read the tach on GD if it shuts down when I  start the Ballabio?  What am I doing wrong??
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 05, 2014, 08:31:45 PM
Okay, new problem.  While hooked up to GD, I start the Ballabio and lose all readouts.  How can I read the tach on GD if it shuts down when I  start the Ballabio?  What am I doing wrong??

Does GD stay connected? How's your battery? I wonder of the OBD2 dongle is shutting down when this happens due to a voltage drop.  Also, try connecting AFTER you start the Ballabio.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 05, 2014, 08:39:00 PM
Voltage drop is my thought. PADS and NAVI do this too, its a real PITA. Hook the battery up to a charger for a bit or try and connect when the bike is already running. You can usually work around it.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Thunderbox on August 06, 2014, 11:55:37 AM
Hi Paul.

Just back from vacation, and found the new cables from LonElec in my mailbox.  So, I have connected everything back up, reloaded drivers (from the LonElec website) and... still no luck.  Device manager shows both USB Serial Converter and COM5 to have FTDI drivers, and the test program works (red light on cable is illuminated).  This makes two computers, three OBD cables, two 3-pin cables without success.  I'm really starting to think that the problem must be on the bike (cable to ECU).     Maybe I should go buy another motorcycle to test on.   ;D

Cheers,
Shaun

The connector on the bike should only have 2 wires.  That may be the one for the ABS.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: averb on August 07, 2014, 05:21:50 PM
Okay, new problem.  While hooked up to GD, I start the Ballabio and lose all readouts.  How can I read the tach on GD if it shuts down when I  start the Ballabio?  What am I doing wrong??
I've had this problem on my wifes Breva, I pulled the fuse for the headlight and it stopped the problem.
This is a pain so I'm going to try running the dongle from a switch mode power supply
Steve
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tinkerfreak on August 07, 2014, 09:40:11 PM
I have developed a burble/miss at idle after the bike(2012 Stelvio) is warm. I will pull up to a light and it will occur. I set the valves, balanced the TB's, reset the TPS, uploaded a new map with the Lambdas shut off and only adjusted the CO slightly and reset the TPS. At first it ran quite well but has developed this miss as of late and I was wondering what might be the cause. It is a totally stock bike.

Cheers
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Thunderbox on August 08, 2014, 08:36:37 AM
I have developed a burble/miss at idle after the bike(2012 Stelvio) is warm. I will pull up to a light and it will occur. I set the valves, balanced the TB's, reset the TPS, uploaded a new map with the Lambdas shut off and only adjusted the CO slightly and reset the TPS. At first it ran quite well but has developed this miss as of late and I was wondering what might be the cause. It is a totally stock bike.

Cheers

When the bike is warm and the miss is occurring hook it up and adjust the CO until the miss is gone.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 16, 2014, 04:45:24 PM
Another problem.  I am working on my Ballabio.  Trying to copy the current map into writer and it won't do it.  Also, now I try and hook GD up and when it says to turn the key on, I do.  Then it says ignition off.   I had it hooked up to the bike the other day when i was trying to balance the TB's and it worked.  I have completely disconnected the bike, shut the program down and restarted the computer.  It still will not connect, neither GD or reader.  I am using the right ECU selection and reader.  It acts like I am trying to read the wrong ECU.  The  display states it is the 15 ECU, and the Ballabio is selected in the table of choices. What should I try or do now?? I have the proper cables from England. Battery is fully charged.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 16, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
Another problem.  I am working on my Ballabio.  Trying to copy the current map into writer and it won't do it.  Also, now I try and hook GD up and when it says to turn the key on, I do.  Then it says ignition off.   I had it hooked up to the bike the other day when i was trying to balance the TB's and it worked.  I have completely disconnected the bike, shut the program down and restarted the computer.  It still will not connect, neither GD or reader.  I am using the right ECU selection and reader.  It acts like I am trying to read the wrong ECU.  The  display states it is the 15 ECU, and the Ballabio is selected in the table of choices. What should I try or do now?? I have the proper cables from England. Battery is fully charged.

Have you tried hooking everything up, and then plugging it into the computer?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 16, 2014, 06:00:40 PM
Yes, no joy.  What gets me is that it worked before, but not now. :(
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 16, 2014, 08:47:52 PM
Can you still connect to the Norge?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 16, 2014, 10:33:36 PM
Can you still connect to the Norge?

Yes I can.  And I found the problem.  My assistant, my son, last time we were working on it, used the kill switch rather than the key to shut it off.  I turned the kill switch off and it worked like it should.  :-[  So once again, the problem was operator interface.  What a DA I'm am.   :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[  There is a reason the VA said I shouldn't be allowed to possess anything sharper than a pillow.  ::)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 17, 2014, 05:37:27 AM
Bwahhhh..
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 17, 2014, 05:51:05 AM
Bin 'dere, done dat! ;)

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 17, 2014, 05:53:47 AM
Another problem.  I am working on my Ballabio.  Trying to copy the current map into writer and it won't do it.  Also, now I try and hook GD up and when it says to turn the key on, I do.  Then it says ignition off.   I had it hooked up to the bike the other day when i was trying to balance the TB's and it worked.  I have completely disconnected the bike, shut the program down and restarted the computer.  It still will not connect, neither GD or reader.  I am using the right ECU selection and reader.  It acts like I am trying to read the wrong ECU.  The  display states it is the 15 ECU, and the Ballabio is selected in the table of choices. What should I try or do now?? I have the proper cables from England. Battery is fully charged.

well look at the ecu, is it a 15m or 15rc? then look whet the selected v11 gives in guzzidiag, that should be the same.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Thunderbox on August 17, 2014, 11:29:32 AM
I am very happy with the way the Norge is running since modifying the map and shutting off the O2 sensor.  Idle is better, no backfiring and no surging on the road.  Thank you all for all the information.  Beetle has been specially helpful and I extend a big thank you to him.  Keep up the good work people and have a great season.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 17, 2014, 11:35:35 AM
After putting the new map in my 07 Norge, I don't have as much popping on overrun as I did.  Just a very slight bit.  The big difference though is cold idle. When I go to start  off when the bike is cold, it stumbles a bit and acts like it needs some choke.  After warm up it is kosher and runs well.  My CO setting currently is 0. Thinking maybe I should set at +5 and keep going up +5 until it no longer has that stumble at cold idle.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: nikwax on August 17, 2014, 02:22:03 PM
Another problem.  I am working on my Ballabio.  Trying to copy the current map into writer and it won't do it.  Also, now I try and hook GD up and when it says to turn the key on, I do.  Then it says ignition off.   I had it hooked up to the bike the other day when i was trying to balance the TB's and it worked.  I have completely disconnected the bike, shut the program down and restarted the computer.  It still will not connect, neither GD or reader.  I am using the right ECU selection and reader.  It acts like I am trying to read the wrong ECU.  The  display states it is the 15 ECU, and the Ballabio is selected in the table of choices. What should I try or do now?? I have the proper cables from England. Battery is fully charged.


I assume you mean you're trying to copy the current map with reader and not with writer? Verified that you have the correct versions of reader and writer?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 17, 2014, 03:22:34 PM
Yes I was using reader and do have the correct version.  The biggest problem, actually the only problem was the operator interface. Operator being the operative word here.  :P ::) :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 17, 2014, 05:40:22 PM
After putting the new map in my 07 Norge, I don't have as much popping on overrun as I did.  Just a very slight bit.  The big difference though is cold idle. When I go to start  off when the bike is cold, it stumbles a bit and acts like it needs some choke.  After warm up it is kosher and runs well.  My CO setting currently is 0. Thinking maybe I should set at +5 and keep going up +5 until it no longer has that stumble at cold idle.


May I suggest +3 to start, then go up by 2, then 1 (if needed). A little bit goes a long way.   :D


Also, for a long term 'fix', a look at the warm-up table or fuel-engine-temp table may be required if it runs great once warm.

 ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Thunderbox on August 18, 2014, 09:56:41 AM
After putting the new map in my 07 Norge, I don't have as much popping on overrun as I did.  Just a very slight bit.  The big difference though is cold idle. When I go to start  off when the bike is cold, it stumbles a bit and acts like it needs some choke.  After warm up it is kosher and runs well.  My CO setting currently is 0. Thinking maybe I should set at +5 and keep going up +5 until it no longer has that stumble at cold idle.

I tried to get rid of the popping by removing fuel from 4500 rpm to 2000 rpm with closed throttle but never was happy with the result.  It still popped slightly and there was a surge when the fuel came back on.  I added 20% extra fuel under those conditions and I have 0 popping.  You also need to adjust your CO to get the idle and cold start to be satisfactory.  This is done with the bike running and you will see the difference it makes in the smoothness of the idle and the cold start.  Would you be interested in the map from my 2008 Norge.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 18, 2014, 12:05:28 PM
I tried to get rid of the popping by removing fuel from 4500 rpm to 2000 rpm with closed throttle but never was happy with the result.  It still popped slightly and there was a surge when the fuel came back on.  I added 20% extra fuel under those conditions and I have 0 popping.  You also need to adjust your CO to get the idle and cold start to be satisfactory.  This is done with the bike running and you will see the difference it makes in the smoothness of the idle and the cold start.  Would you be interested in the map from my 2008 Norge.

Yes I would be interested.  :bow  The one I have now I believe is from Beetle, and has made a big difference. I have saved both maps, so yes I would appreciate a chance to try yours.  I'm downloading the Ballabio map here in a wee bit and will send that one to Beetle.  GD sure has made fine tuning our bikes a hellava lot easier, and fun too! ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Claesson on August 18, 2014, 09:51:14 PM
Hello everybody I have a couple of questions about modifying maps.
I have a two lambda stelvio with a sprint air filter stock airbox and mivv silencer without baffle.
I wanna get rid of the popping and wonder what values to change.
Also read on another forum (guzzitech) that you can damage the engine if you turn off the lambdas?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 18, 2014, 10:24:37 PM
Hello everybody I have a couple of questions about modifying maps.
I have a two lambda stelvio with a sprint air filter stock airbox and mivv silencer without baffle.
I wanna get rid of the popping and wonder what values to change.


There are two ways to do it. You can either cut fuel to 0 in the 4.6 & 4.7 TPS columns from 2750 to 8500 rpm, or add extra fuel in the same columns between 2500 and 3750 rpm. Too much fuel has the same affect on popping as no fuel.


Quote
Also read on another forum (guzzitech) that you can damage the engine if you turn off the lambdas?


Complete and utter rubbish.




Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 18, 2014, 10:49:08 PM
I do wish people would at least TRY their bikes with the stock air filtration system. Replacing the stock filter with a rock strainer or drilling holes in the air box will achieve nothing but will create problems with driveability. Really, frigging about with the air box is really one of the most in-necessary mods. An Unbaffled pipe will also contribute nothing but noise and difficulty in getting the machine to perform well.

Turning the lambda/s will off harm nothing.
D
Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on August 19, 2014, 03:12:27 AM
I do wish people would at least TRY their bikes with the stock air filtration system. Replacing the stock filter with a rock strainer or drilling holes in the air box will achieve nothing but will create problems with driveability. Really, frigging about with the air box is really one of the most in-necessary mods. An Unbaffled pipe will also contribute nothing but noise and difficulty in getting the machine to perform well.

Turning the lambda/s will harm nothing.

Pete
I can't agree more with what Peter is saying here.
I had an Unrestricted exhaust on for a while ( kidding myself it sounded cool ? ) thinking the O2 sensor and ECU would take care of the tuning. Wrong so Wrong !
Maybe it sounded better , to me anyway, but the bike just felt Flat throughout the entire rev range.
Tried one of Beetles maps with a mistral pipe with the DB killer IN. What a difference !
The engine now pulls smoothly and strongly from low in the rev range to the red line . Woo hoo.
A pleasant surprise with this new map was the reduction in vibration from the engine at all road speeds.
So... For this boy who knows little of the science and mathematics involved in designing exhausts and induction systems, I'll trust in Mr Guzzi at the factory to work that part out for me.

 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: molly on August 19, 2014, 04:12:18 AM
You can put a different exhaust and air filter on but the bike needs the mapping altering to compensate. On my 1200 Sport 2v the stock exhaust gave more power than a GPR silencer with the same map. I now use a Sprint competition air filter recommended by Agostini in Mandello and this combined with the stock silencer and a  data logged map  for me is the best combination.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 19, 2014, 04:23:31 AM
Dave, don't forget the 8V is a completely different animal. No one's saying you can't do it,  but IMO (and Pete's) it's not necessary. The stock filter flows well more than enough for most applications. I guess if you want to get a lot of power out of the 8V, you may want to add a rock strainer, but I'd bet my left one it would be a very ordinary ride on the street.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tenni138 on August 19, 2014, 03:07:02 PM
I have a 2009 Norge stock air filter and exhaust. Evap can removed and vacuum line plugged(caused surging while in gear and clutch pulled in) Running Molly's map with trim set to +5 and the bike runs great. I 've noticed that if clutch switch is not activated when clutch lever is pulled in then idle is increased. Must have something to do with stepper motor. This a great forum.  Thanks for everyone who contributes. ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Claesson on August 20, 2014, 07:14:55 AM
Hi are trying to upload a map with the writer app on a mac ,the reader and diag program works fine, the writer finds the computer but wont load anything from it. ???
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on August 20, 2014, 08:39:15 AM
You can browse the Mac file system and you can select the map to be uploaded then it fails?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Claesson on August 20, 2014, 08:46:51 AM
No i cant browse the file system just see it but cant get nowhere.i have tried to open macintosh hd but nothing happens.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Claesson on August 20, 2014, 08:54:50 AM
Solved it had to push some more buttons aint much of a hacker. :)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on August 20, 2014, 10:25:53 AM
Solved it had to push some more buttons aint much of a hacker. :)

Don't feel bad.  I had several operator interface failures myself. ::) ;)  It is great software when the operator uses it properly. ;D :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: czakky82 on August 25, 2014, 08:04:47 PM
Hey guys, i must've had a wee gaff on my guzzidiag and am having major cold start issues. Anyway i am wondering if anybody out there could let me peep at there somewhat stock map?...

My bike is an 02 v11 LeMans. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on August 25, 2014, 10:40:39 PM
I'm also having cold start issues with my 2001 V11S (15M). I've reflashed it a few times with the stock map (and even slightly modified) with the same results. If I put in my spare ECU, it fires up within 1 second and idles perfectly.
Anybody else having issues with their 15M ECU?
Ken

p.s. I sent a BIN file to czakky82 that I pulled of off my spared stock ECU.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 26, 2014, 05:16:25 PM
SO you have two ecu with same map and they behave different? Same Co trim setting?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on August 26, 2014, 06:40:17 PM
SO you have two ecu with same map and they behave different? Same Co trim setting?
Yes, same CO trim setting. I've tried maps from each ECU with the same results. The only difference I've noticed between the two ECU's is cold starting issue which have been going on since last year when I first used GD.
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waltr on August 26, 2014, 07:15:31 PM
   I loaded guzzdiag after I did my first throttle body balance and removed the canister at 3,500 miles.  My bike suffered with cold start issues before and after loading Guzzidiag.  At around 7,500 miles I revisited the throttle body balance and being more familiar with the carbtech balancer I really dialed it in closer.  I was surprised how much adjustment was needed to get the left cyl in line with the right.  I have no cold start problems ever since.  Even have a nice high idle until engine starts to warm up. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on September 15, 2014, 10:13:58 AM
Yes, same CO trim setting. I've tried maps from each ECU with the same results. The only difference I've noticed between the two ECU's is cold starting issue which have been going on since last year when I first used GD.
Ken
After downloading the newest XDF and Tunerpro (looks like earlier versions had bugs), the latest map on my V11 works flawlessly. It's also a good idea to have a fully charged battery when uploading new maps.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on September 15, 2014, 10:22:08 AM
Now, the issue with my 2009 V7C. As stated above, I have the newest XDF and Tunerpro, but my V7C won't start or run properly with a modified map. On my last attempt, I just changed cold start time to 2000 instead of 4000, and it wouldn't start. When I load the original map back on, it starts right up.

When I load the 15RC XDF into Tunerpro, I also get settings for my V11. I don't know why it's doing this, but that may be the issue. I deleted all of the V11 settings from the XDF, but that didn't work either.
Ken
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll83/ksiegel7/2009%20V7%20Classic/photo_zps24ac7bae.jpg) (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/ksiegel7/media/2009%20V7%20Classic/photo_zps24ac7bae.jpg.html)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Penderic on September 15, 2014, 01:59:25 PM
I can send you my modified map for my 09 V7c - the starting fuel map is slightly increased, the lamba is switched off and nothing else is changed.

My bike runs very well now even during the cold start timed period.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on September 15, 2014, 03:06:06 PM
I can send you my modified map for my 09 V7c - the starting fuel map is slightly increased, the lamba is switched off and nothing else is changed.

My bike runs very well now even during the cold start timed period.




I'll install it tomorrow and report back. Thanks!
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on September 16, 2014, 11:36:44 AM
I'll install it tomorrow and report back. Thanks!
Ken

The map worked like a charm! No hesitation during cold startup at all.
Thanks again!
Ken
Now, why can't I create my own maps for this in Tunerpro? I can do it perfectly with the V11S 15M XDF and BIN map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Stormtruck2 on September 17, 2014, 10:50:49 PM
The Centauro ECU has to have the EPROM changed correct?  Guzzidiag  doesn't work for the Centy correct?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 18, 2014, 12:35:03 AM
Yeah. Centauro is a 16M right? Reader and Writer won't work.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bisbonian on September 26, 2014, 12:01:30 PM
Is there a depository of maps around there somewhere that I'm missing?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Phil_P on September 26, 2014, 12:07:19 PM
The Centauro ECU has to have the EPROM changed correct?  Guzzidiag  doesn't work for the Centy correct?

Yes, although when you pull the eprom, the guzzidiag people have some software I believe that will help you tweek it if you use an eprom reader/writer to access it.

Phil
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 26, 2014, 01:29:16 PM
for tunerpro we have the xdf for 16m ready to download, you only need an eprom burner and a handful of eproms. I have the maps from the guzzi stock eproms here. But not ready to go tuned.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: toma nova on September 28, 2014, 02:36:32 PM
I continue to have problems with my MacBook.

GD v43 works fine now, but I had to download it several times - I was getting different sized downloads and ended up using the largest file.  Worked fine to reset the TPS on my 2008 12S and my 2014 Stelvio.

Now that I'm ready to take the next step of adjusting maps, lambdas, etc., I'm trying to download Reader and Writer.  Writer appears to work OK but I haven't written anything to the ECU because I can't get Reader to open.  From the GD site, I can only download V22 (not 23 as indicated) and as soon as Reader tries to open, it shuts down and won't open.  OS and Safari stay running but Reader just won't open.  I had the same issue with GD early on but kept trying more downloads until it finally worked.

I've tried to download Reader 20+ times and every instance crashes.  Anyone else having issues with OS or have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 28, 2014, 04:39:44 PM
For the mac, I see the download links to 0.22, I suppose that isn't updated yet. In the past people with mac having this sort of problems had a wrong program to extract the zip file I think.

difference betwen 22 and 23 is added 59m, only usefull for ducati. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on September 28, 2014, 05:34:50 PM
I have mountain lion on my mac, and had to go into the security portion of it to enable downloads for untrusted sites. You should be able to go into your downloads folder and save it to your desktop. My mac screen flashes all kinds of crazy when I use guzzidiag and sometimes crashes, but I can get it to work with some patience.
Downside is that they don't have tunerpro for Mac yet. I got an old windows laptop from a buddy that I normally use.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: toma nova on September 30, 2014, 07:52:29 PM
For the mac, I see the download links to 0.22, I suppose that isn't updated yet. In the past people with mac having this sort of problems had a wrong program to extract the zip file I think.

difference betwen 22 and 23 is added 59m, only usefull for ducati. 

Tried again tonight, I see that Reader for Mac OS has been updated to V23.  It worked perfectly!  I now have the stock map saved to my MacBook.

Thanks so much Paul / Bernd, donation sent!

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on October 10, 2014, 06:38:52 PM
Does the CO adjustment affect the Lambda? I turned off the lambda on my V7C, and MPG dropped to low 40's (used to be around 50MPG). I reinstalled the lambda, now I'm getting pinging again under hard acceleration, and I'm wondering if increasing CO a bit will take care of that, or if it will auto correct back to what it was originally. FWIW, the CO setting is at 21 on my 2009 V7C.
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 10, 2014, 07:55:00 PM
Ken, CO trim is not active when lambda is 'on'.

Did you reset the learned parameters when you flashed the non-lambda map? Or maybe pulled the main fuses? If yes, then the now that lambda is active again, the ECU will re-trim and you should get back to where you were.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on October 10, 2014, 09:43:09 PM
Thanks for the info! No, I didn't reset the learned parameters then. I think I'll remove the lambda again and do that. If MPG drops, I'll probably reduce the CO and go from there.
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 10, 2014, 10:55:17 PM
When you turn lambda off and reset the learned parameters, set the CO trim at zero to begin. At 21, it'll be too rich, hence the increased fuel use.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on October 11, 2014, 12:49:53 PM
Thanks! Runs like a champ now.
Ken
Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sknapp351 on October 11, 2014, 02:24:54 PM
I hope I can get some advice. I have a 2000 Jackal, and I am trying to connect GuzziDiag to check my TPS and CO trim. I purchased the cable combo from Lonetec linked to on the first page, and downloaded the GuzziDiag software and the only drivers Lonetec offered, which were for Windows. I originally tried connecting to my MacBook Pro, I didn't install drivers, as I didn't see any, and the program always said it couldn't connect. I had an old laptop with Windows for testing, so I dug that out, installed the cable drivers, connected everything in the exact steps on the first page, and it still says the Ignition is off.

I must be doing something wrong, but I'm getting a bit frustrated. I connected the two cables together, then connected to the three pin plug, then the red clip to the battery, at this point the red light on the cable came on. Then I plugged into the usb on the laptop. I then opened GuzziDiag, went to file, then connect. I turned on the ignition and watched the timer run out. Here are some photos.

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/91776b1ca7082798d58530f67755e915.jpg)

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/d2337ad9c6d22b1f62854532e2d21f2c.jpg)

Thanks for any help!
Sam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on October 11, 2014, 02:36:41 PM
Make sure it's in neutral or that the side stand is up.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on October 11, 2014, 02:39:34 PM
Use the cable drivers from Guzzidiag, and not the drivers that came with the cable. http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/
Also, under the File menu, you'll need to click on Preferences and select the proper Language, COM port and Motorcycle. For the first time selecting COM port, have everything connected, and you may have to select the highest # com port. IIRC, it's COM 6 on my PC, and Com 4 on my mac.
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sknapp351 on October 11, 2014, 02:48:16 PM
Use the cable drivers from Guzzidiag, and not the drivers that came with the cable. http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/
Also, under the File menu, you'll need to click on Preferences and select the proper Language, COM port and Motorcycle. For the first time selecting COM port, have everything connected, and you may have to select the highest # com port. IIRC, it's COM 6 on my PC, and Com 4 on my mac.
Ken

It is definitely in neutral. The side stand is bypassed as it is a sidecar rig.

Will I need to somehow uninstall the drivers I have installed already, or can I simply install these over them?

I did set the language, and bike. It had no other options on mine other than Com 3.

Thanks!
Sam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Moto Fugazzi on October 11, 2014, 03:01:47 PM
It is definitely in neutral. The side stand is bypassed as it is a sidecar rig.

Will I need to somehow uninstall the drivers I have installed already, or can I simply install these over them?

I did set the language, and bike. It had no other options on mine other than Com 3.

Thanks!
Sam

Not sure if you can install the proper driver over the other one, but I would recommend uninstalling it first. A different COM port will most likely appear after you install the proper driver and connect everything together. I get COM 3 only when the cables aren't connected to the bike.
Ken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 11, 2014, 03:08:19 PM
When you go into device manager in windows control panel, look at the com ports it has (with kkl attached to computer) Since you have one, open that there and look what driver version it has. Indeed best is to uninstall the wrong(old?) driver first, and install the one from guzzidiag  download page. after that check version same way to see if it has the version that you just installed. The bike you did select, tells it has a 15m?
Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sknapp351 on October 11, 2014, 03:10:44 PM
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/47118dd6b7c528eaa402e5018bf78a97.jpg)

When you mentioned the drivers on the GuzziDiag page, I looked and saw Mac drivers. So, I went back and used my MacBook Pro and it worked like a charm.

I don't believe I can reset the tps on the jackal through the software, so I'm going to read up to recall what the setting should be at idle. I also don't know if I can adjust CO trim at all. I'm only checking it because someone said it may be related to an issue.

I have the rear wheel off to get relaced, so the muffler on that side is off. Can I run it like that? Or should I wait till I get the rear wheel back?

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 11, 2014, 03:14:19 PM
No the 15m doesn't have a tps reset, the empty rows, can be filed with values from the dropdown list. start the engine to see things moving

And I sse I have two newer maps for your bike. If you want to try, pm your emailaddress

Yes you can set CO, values go from -128 to +128. I suppose it will run without silencer, but the neighbours might not like it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sknapp351 on October 11, 2014, 08:29:07 PM
I have read earlier on this thread that it is good to adjust the CO down until I notice a drop in idle. I will work on that after I get my rear wheel back.

Is it possible to set or verify the TPS setting using the readings here? I saw that some said the readings here are not precise enough to set, and the only settings I have seen are 150mv without linkage and all screws backed out, and 520mv at idle. I don't know what to look for here for the TPS.

Thanks for any advice,
Sam
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bisbonian on October 14, 2014, 08:48:32 PM
Had a chance to upload some maps this weekend on my 1200 Sport and give them a try.

So far I've tried two maps from two different people. Both give me a bit of a bog off idle when cold (cold is relative in Tucson, AZ). One map makes the bike undid able when cold, opening the throttle results in a stall, the other has a noticeable bog but I can ride through it.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I've been using a map from Todd with the PC-V and Autotune and have been satisfied for years. Now I'm trying for some better mileage.

I disconnected the PC-V from the injectors prior to remapping. Reset TPS after loading map and reset learning parameters. I'm making an assumption that the lambda stays turned off with these maps, but that wouldn't be active until warmed up anyway, right?

So, try messing with the CO?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on October 14, 2014, 08:51:49 PM
Any changes apart from the PCV/AT?  Non standard air filter? Different pipe?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 14, 2014, 09:46:55 PM
CO trim could help, provided there are no radical differences between your bike and what the maps were built for.  Try -10.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bisbonian on October 14, 2014, 10:53:04 PM
Any changes apart from the PCV/AT?  Non standard air filter? Different pipe?

Leo Vince pipe with db killer installed, stock air box with aftermarket filter and open top.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on October 15, 2014, 01:01:42 AM
OK, can't see that being an issue. Baffled right now. Who's maps.? Dave's and Tony's and Mark's I imagine.....

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 15, 2014, 01:10:13 AM
Open top?  Not one of my maps.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: molly on October 15, 2014, 04:33:35 AM
Bisbonian I believe is referring to one of my maps. This was set up using a data logger with a standard silencer and a Sprint (Agostini) air filter.. The map works well at 13.5/14 AFR across the rpm/tps range with no cold start issues on my bike or other users to date.  The map works well also with a GPR silencer with the db killer installed.
I have tried twenty or so combinations of maps and hardware but the standard silencer/Sprint filter combo achieved the best results in terms of improved throttle response, mid range torque and fuel consumption.
The CO trim with this set up on my bike is +4.

I cannot produce a map for any other set up because of not being confident of the results without doing the data logging runs to verify the AFR ratios and actual performance.

The previous use of the PC equipment may muddy the waters a little and returning to the factory map and air filter arrangement until the problems are resolved maybe helpful.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bisbonian on October 15, 2014, 10:04:57 AM
OK, can't see that being an issue. Baffled right now. Who's maps.? Dave's and Tony's and Mark's I imagine.....

Pete


I've tried one of Dave's and one of yours so far. The map you sent to me bogs slightly when cold but I can ride through it. Seems to run nicely once warm.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bisbonian on October 15, 2014, 10:17:23 AM
Bisbonian I believe is referring to one of my maps. This was set up using a data logger with a standard silencer and a Sprint (Agostini) air filter.. The map works well at 13.5/14 AFR across the rpm/tps range with no cold start issues on my bike or other users to date.  The map works well also with a GPR silencer with the db killer installed.
I have tried twenty or so combinations of maps and hardware but the standard silencer/Sprint filter combo achieved the best results in terms of improved throttle response, mid range torque and fuel consumption.
The CO trim with this set up on my bike is +4.

I cannot produce a map for any other set up because of not being confident of the results without doing the data logging runs to verify the AFR ratios and actual performance.

The previous use of the PC equipment may muddy the waters a little and returning to the factory map and air filter arrangement until the problems are resolved maybe helpful.

Correct. The 20 map I got from you (haven't tried the other yet) will stall when cold. However, once the engine warms it runs very nice and smoothly.

I have no problem putting the airbox back to stock to check things out, but I have no access to a factory map.

I do understand that bikes are individual and a map created and used successfully on one may not work well on another, hence the popularity of dyno tuning with the Power Commanders and later the autotune which allows for constant adjustment.

I read further up this thread that resetting the learning parameters could turn the lambda back on? Is this not a problem with the maps specifically built with the lambda off or do I have to worry about it? I don't have the lambda on my bike as it was replaced by the wide-band for the autotune.

I think I'll try bumping the CO a few steps first, I never have luck getting the tank off to mess with the air box.

One last thing. How can I actually look at the different maps? It would be interesting to see the difference between what I've been using and what is available now. Of course, I probably would not know what I'm looking at so maybe I don't need to know.

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: molly on October 15, 2014, 01:05:44 PM
Without loading a map with the lambda enabled (which you haven't got) the lambda will remain off. You need to have a look at the CO levels to address the cold starting problem it won't be in the map I sent you because the values are the same as the factory settings.

If your initial problem was that the PC/autotune set up was using too much fuel can't the autotune be changed to run leaner? although with a open top airbox Guzzitech may have added more fuel to compensate. So possibly with a different map but retaining the open airbox you could be running too weak. I seem to remember in the Guzzitech blurb that running their airbox kit also required their reflash so be careful.

I have sent you a factory map via email.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 15, 2014, 03:44:42 PM
Oh, so the other is one of my maps. Which one?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bisbonian on October 15, 2014, 04:03:52 PM
Without loading a map with the lambda enabled (which you haven't got) the lambda will remain off. You need to have a look at the CO levels to address the cold starting problem it won't be in the map I sent you because the values are the same as the factory settings.

If your initial problem was that the PC/autotune set up was using too much fuel can't the autotune be changed to run leaner? although with a open top airbox Guzzitech may have added more fuel to compensate. So possibly with a different map but retaining the open airbox you could be running too weak. I seem to remember in the Guzzitech blurb that running their airbox kit also required their reflash so be careful.

I have sent you a factory map via email.

The autotune allows me to adjust the fuel/air ratio for different throttle openings at different RPMs. I can change this but am hesitant to stray too far from what Todd set it up as.

I have the Autotune tables that I can view but they are on a different computer that I have to dig out. I seem to remember having the ratio set around 13.4-13.6:1

Definitely going to try putting the air box back to stock and see what happens. I will miss the incredible intake honk but if I can gain a few mpgs and get the bike running smoother then it will be well worth it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Penderic on October 15, 2014, 07:10:30 PM
Related topic. The type of ecu's we will be dealing with in the future.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/exclusive-bosch-to-release-new-ecu-with-smartphone-connectivity/25726.html
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: molly on October 16, 2014, 05:15:38 AM
We can already connect our 5AM ecu's to a smart phone via the ScanM5X app. and pretty good it is too.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scantwin.scanmM5.AllinOne&hl=en
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: redrider on October 29, 2014, 06:48:13 AM
Received cables, installed drivers, connected to ecu, map read and saved. DL Tunerpro and cannot see the map. XDF and BIN? What and how do those things work? Must I wear the colander, stand on one leg while waving a nine iron in a hailstorm? Naked. My first book was a stone tablet.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on October 29, 2014, 07:02:02 AM
Not a 100% sure , but I think I copied the appropriate XDF file into tunerpro , and it then allows you to read your bin files. No tin hats required  :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: redrider on October 29, 2014, 07:23:27 AM
I am a Luddite. What are and how do you manipulate XDF and BIN files?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on October 29, 2014, 08:29:30 AM
I am a Luddite. What are and how do you manipulate XDF and BIN files?

At the bike:
Run the program 'GuzziDiag' to diagnose the ECU. Set or reset the TPS. Look at the sensor readings. If GuzziDiag does not work with your cables, then the reader and writer likely won't either.
Run the 'Reader' that is appropriate for YOUR ECU, to read the BIN file from the ECU to the PC.
Run the 'Write' that is appropriate for YOUR ECU, to write a BIN file to the ECU from the PC.
Remember, each of the above programs needs to access the ECU cable. So you can only run one at a time.

With the files:
Once you have a BIN file run TunerPro. In TunerPro, load the XDF file to configure TunerPro to your type of ECU. (TunerPro is universal and needs the XDF to decode your bin file). Then load the BIN file that you want to examine. When you are happy, save that BIN file and run the Writer (see above) to write it to the ECU. (I strongly recommend saving a copy of the original BIN file, just in case)


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: redrider on October 29, 2014, 08:58:25 AM
DUH!! All I had to do was DL the XDF from GD. Since I know nothing of programs, extensions and the manipulation of said items, navigation is problematic. As I interpret it, the xdf  file is a translator or key to unlock the ecu data which is in a bin format. Thanks to all who have assisted with this. Now to find some maps...



Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sib on November 22, 2014, 02:52:38 PM
This is a basic howto for the GuzziDiag suite of tools. This howto will show you how to connect, read (backup) your existing map, write (flash) a new map and perform a TPS reset. This uses the Windows versions, but Mac & Linux versions function the same.


For the 5AM ECU, you will need the following software from the GuzziDiag page:
....

For the 15M ECU you will need these:
....

What about for the MIU G3?  I managed to eventually get the correct cables and got Guzzidiag (Mac, V0.44) to connect to the ECU of my V7 Stone.  Is there yet software to download and upload maps for this ECU?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mal Wright on November 23, 2014, 04:36:58 AM
Today I loaded the map from Mark into my 1200 Sport setup with the snorkle removed and a second-hand staintune pipe. It has put some life into the old girl! Like Bisbonian, I also have the PCV and auto-tune, so when I installed the new map I also reset the PCV back to zero. Bisbonian, I think this might explain the bogging that you were getting. If you left the PCV at the settings from Todd AND installed the new map from Mark, then the mix would certainly be too rich, which might explain the bogging off idle.

With Marks map installed, I initially set all PCV table settings (under Fuel/Table) to zero. Then I ran the bike for half an hour and loaded the auto-tune adjustments into the PCV. I did this twice this afternoon to get the fueling right for my setup as an adjustment from what Mark provided. My auto-tune raised the fuel percentages quite dramatically in some places, probably due to the rather loud Staintune pipe.

When I first installed the PCV a few months ago I chose not to shoot for the ECU remap. With just the PCV, and removing the original O2 sensor to fit the auto-tune, I think the ECU cuts back to a safe timing setting in the lower revs, and I noticed that the throttle response was much softer. It was very smooth on partial throttle and not a bad setup for cruising or touring. It also had very good parking lot manners and was easy to get right down to 1600-1800 revs and ease the throttle on. Once you get heavy on the throttle then the old girl would take a deep breath and pull pretty well up into the rev range. The PCV setup solved the hole in the torque curve with pretty good punch between 3 and 6k, and also pulled more smoothly very low in the rev range around 2k, but still popped just a little on decel.

Now with the Mark (beetle) map for the 1200 Sport things have gone bad in a good way! The bike starts immediately, and the throttle response is quicker with less throttle required before the bike barks and starts to pull. When I open up the throttle the engine is louder and definitely has a some more punch throughout the rev range. The bike can now shake just a little more at low throttle due to the power pulses, possibly related to more ignition advance in the lower revs. I'm Ok with that, its not offensive and nothing like what you get on a motocrosser. There are no bad manners from this map and guess what, no decel popping. Just a slight burble as the revs get down under 3k. Beautiful sound.

Bisbonian, if you are looking for better fuel consumption, then you need to change the auto-tune values. Todd sets these up to 13.4 and 13.2 depending on the throttle and revs. I think you could try up to 14 quite safely, especially around the cruising revs and throttle so the bike will lean out on the mix for most of your riding. Maybe Todd or someone with experience can share what they know. I'll be giving it a go when I get the time to see if there are any gains or problems.



Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tiger_one on November 23, 2014, 11:07:04 AM
Related topic. The type of ecu's we will be dealing with in the future.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/exclusive-bosch-to-release-new-ecu-with-smartphone-connectivity/25726.html

I can say from experience with the Super Tenere (ABS and TC offroad by Bosch) and now the 1190adv (ABS and TC offroad plus the MSC) this stuff works!  BOSCH has it going on right now for sure!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on November 23, 2014, 12:08:55 PM
What about for the MIU G3?  I managed to eventually get the correct cables and got Guzzidiag (Mac, V0.44) to connect to the ECU of my V7 Stone.  Is there yet software to download and upload maps for this ECU?

No we are not that far, what is missing is someone who records the things that happen when updating a map with PADS.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on November 24, 2014, 12:28:40 AM
Mal, that's a good approach. I've postulated on the Ghetto that one of reasons the PC may cause overfuelling is that if the main ECU map is set too rich the Autotune won't be able to reach the target AFR. It's one way to get a a good result where you don't have a custom map for a specific exhaust.

I'm trying to help a guy with a Griso with a very open pipe and this is the approach we've taken.
 
Nice thinking outside the box!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on December 05, 2014, 03:47:58 PM
I can use GuzziDiag just fine, not that I've done anything with it.

It's using the reader bit that's a real problem because I want to save my original before doing anything else.
I've only managed to get it to save my original bin file once, then it hasn't actually saved it because it's certainly not where I saved it to, even tho it took the obligatory 15 minutes to download it.

But every other time it comes up with 'Initialization Failed'. Turn ignition off for 10 seconds - then nothing.
It's obviously setup OK otherwise Guzzidiag wouldn't respond and couldn't have (apparently) saved my bin file., and I'm pretty good with the whole Windows thing.

So, what's the problem people?>?

Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on December 05, 2014, 03:56:13 PM
Are you selecting the right com. Port before starting 'Reader'? I too couldn't find where my maps were being sent to. Turned out it was somewhere else entirely, can't remember where offhand! I'll have to look when I'm at the workshop.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on December 05, 2014, 05:02:06 PM
I can use GuzziDiag just fine, not that I've done anything with it.

It's using the reader bit that's a real problem because I want to save my original before doing anything else.
I've only managed to get it to save my original bin file once, then it hasn't actually saved it because it's certainly not where I saved it to, even tho it took the obligatory 15 minutes to download it.

But every other time it comes up with 'Initialization Failed'. Turn ignition off for 10 seconds - then nothing.
It's obviously setup OK otherwise Guzzidiag wouldn't respond and couldn't have (apparently) saved my bin file., and I'm pretty good with the whole Windows thing.

So, what's the problem people?>?

Thanks

Larry

I'm missing some information:

What bike? All you have in signature?
Does  guzzidiag work on same bike as where reader doesn't work?
You can't have guzzidiag and reader connected at same tine.
ABS bike?, didn't plug it in abs diagnostic plug, you won't be the first.
Please connect guzzidiag first, then disconnect it and use reader.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on December 05, 2014, 07:14:24 PM
Are you selecting the right com. Port before starting 'Reader'? I too couldn't find where my maps were being sent to. Turned out it was somewhere else entirely, can't remember where offhand! I'll have to look when I'm at the workshop.

Pete

Thanks Pete.
Yes. Com port is correct. Like I said I'm pretty good at that sort of thing.
Concerning where it's being saved to: I've actually chosen the directory and for name.
I've managed to get it downloading again and can see the file in the directory but with zero bytes. It's 99% done so let's see what happens.

OK. Done. The switch off ignition prompt has come up but still no bytes for the file.
Let's see what happens when I turn the ignition off. Holding breathe.
Turned ignition off. Pressed OK and the file disappeared before my eyes 😠😬 Gone. It's no more. Like a dead parrot.

What now?

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on December 05, 2014, 07:24:58 PM
Paul.
It's a 2012 Stelvio 8V 1200 ABS

Yes, GuzziDiag appears to work fine. Read the measurements anyway. Twist throttle it responds OK.
Pretty sure it's connected to the right plug. Has a notch in it. Just to the left of the air box look from the front.
No, don't have both programs running.
Have reinstalled com port drivers.
If you read my reply to Pete you'll see I just got it to download, but at the end the file disappeared with no bytes recorded.

Mostly it won't connect using reader (v22) but twice it has. Done the download but file doesn't save.

Thanks.

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on December 05, 2014, 09:17:52 PM
This happened to me once, downloaded the wrong reader. Double check that.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on December 06, 2014, 12:54:08 AM
OK folks. We can all rest easy.
Managed to get it to save the old bin file - finally. Turned off firewall and virus scanner, altho who knows if that made the difference because it still took 1/2 a dozen attempts to even get it connected.
Then coxed it into uploading a new one. Took a few efforts to get it to behave with a couple of 'Sorry, something's gone wrong' messages.
But it's all good now.
Reset the TPS.
Seems to be a lot easier off the mark, no jerky/surgy stuff.

I'm a happy Stelvio rider.

Thanks Pete and Paul.
See you Thursday arvo Pete.

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on December 06, 2014, 03:41:38 AM
OK folks. We can all rest easy.
Managed to get it to save the old bin file - finally. Turned off firewall and virus scanner, altho who knows if that made the difference because it still took 1/2 a dozen attempts to even get it connected.
Then coxed it into uploading a new one. Took a few efforts to get it to behave with a couple of 'Sorry, something's gone wrong' messages.
But it's all good now.
Reset the TPS.
Seems to be a lot easier off the mark, no jerky/surgy stuff.

I'm a happy Stelvio rider.

Thanks Pete and Paul.
See you Thursday arvo Pete.

Larry

Really Larry, bugger all to do with me. All Mark's mapping work and Paul and his Mate, (Who I can't work out what his name really is?!) who do the whole Guzzidiag shit who need the Golden Fairy treatment. I'm just the monkey at the end of the line.....

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Camn on December 08, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
Quote
Paul and his Mate, (Who I can't work out what his name really is?!) who do the whole Guzzidiag shit who need the Golden Fairy treatment

Pauldaytona (Netherlands) is the father of the idea (09.02.2011)
"Since 20 years exists Guzzis with fuel injection and still there are people who use carburetors beacause  -then you know what's wrong- . What is missing is a device for the repair shop of your own, which you can use simply to read what is going on".

Beard (Gemany) grabbed the idea and started coding (12.02.2011)
"Cause I don't have a Guzzi with fuel injection, this has not interested me yet but for my cars I have always pottered something".

These were the famous first words, which can still be read here http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?topic=3624.0 (http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?topic=3624.0). During the first developement stages Paul checked things with Axone and verified that all data read was right. Later also other enthusiasts have given their input to the developing team. Today the latest version is V0.45 . And not only Guzzistas, but also other bikers with Marelli ecus have joined the GuzziDiag user team with a smile on their face (Ducati, Aprilia RSV4, GasGas, Morini...).
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 08, 2014, 02:43:30 PM
his Mate, (Who I can't work out what his name really is?!)


Bernd is his name.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jbntx on December 22, 2014, 09:35:00 PM
This stuff is fascinating.  ;-T

After a couple of sets of cables and FTDI driver issues, I have GuzziDiag working, and I have also downloaded my map. I've scrutinized it closely in TunerPro, and after much stroking of the chin, and looking at many graphs, I have concluded I have no idea what I'm looking at. So, until I do, I think it would be wise if I relied on the experience of others. So, I would love to get a good map for my 2000 V11 Sport. It is all stock except for Staintune cans. I have the annoying stumble up at around 2700 rpm, which you causes the a bobble in acceleration just as I am starting to roll on the gas when turning at an intersection. This is a little disconcerting, and if there is a fuel map fix for that, I'd love to get hold of it.

I am also starting a tank off  inspection, and will be replacing fuel and air filters, wires (one looks like the PO's cat was chewing on the boot), and general inspection of everything else.

Many thanks to all those who have been sharing their experiences and knowledge with the rest of us on this.

jb
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on December 23, 2014, 02:55:57 AM
you can try the titanium map
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jbntx on December 23, 2014, 09:27:24 AM
you can try the titanium map
From whom can I get that, Paul?

On a related note, everyone who is using TunerPro should become best friends with the compare feature. I was playing with it last night, and it will do a lot to prevent those times when you really don't know what you changed anymore. If anyone feels it would be worthwhile, I can throw some screenshots and a quick writeup together to show how to set things up to compare two bins.

jb
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: czakky82 on December 23, 2014, 10:31:00 AM
I too would also be interested in the Titanium map. I've had some trials and tribulations w/ some parameters in Guzzidiag and have basically gone back to the original map. But am learning along the way ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 23, 2014, 01:32:05 PM
Anyone who wants the Titanium map, PM me your email address.

I did a basic TunerPro 'Howto' on the Griso Ghetto CLICKY (http://www.grisoghetto.com/t460-beetle-tech-tunerpro-howto).

I can post it here on WG if peeps want.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Waterbottle on December 23, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
Thanks for that Beetle, I've sent an email re Tas trip
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jbntx on December 24, 2014, 09:41:18 AM
I did a basic TunerPro 'Howto' on the Griso Ghetto CLICKY (http://www.grisoghetto.com/t460-beetle-tech-tunerpro-howto).

I can post it here on WG if peeps want.
Please do!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 25, 2014, 02:40:39 AM
Here
Please do!

Here 'tis. CLICKY (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73938.0)

It's long.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jbntx on December 25, 2014, 09:47:28 PM
Here
Here 'tis. CLICKY (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73938.0)

It's long.

That is good stuff, Beetle. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Impulsive_Duc on December 29, 2014, 06:43:52 AM
I have heard from Beard that a new version of his software may soon be released. There were a few timing problems related to logging he has fixed. Also, one major change. ;) But I will a wait patiently for him to release it when it is ready.

Regarding your AFR comments, I always make it a point to say the PC5 series does not use the same TPS/RPM breakpoints the ECU uses. For this reason, the AFR calculation results it displays are "off" due to linear interpolation. I think it is possible to adjust the breakpoints via the configuration utility, but you need to know your ECU breakpoints from viewing the BIN in TunerPro.

CAUTION
DON'T accidentally connect the Pos red and Neg Black cables arse about face or the Smoke Will come out of the OBD2 cable chips.
For my next trick......... A dedicated 2 pin keyed plug so old Ten Thumbs here can't do this again
I actually suggest semi-permanently attaching the croc clips to a C-TEK 56-564 Comfort Indicator Pigtail (link) (http://smartercharger.com/accessories/#CTEK%20Comfort%20Indicator%20Pigtail) (~$10 USD) using BET and using your battery tender port for power when you need it. Not only does it prevent accidental smoke-release, it indicates your current battery health so you know to avoid tuning when flat.

However, there is a design flaw in almost all OBD-to-FIAT adapters that most people are unaware of. Technically the croc clips go to the wrong pin. I am currently investigating if there is a fix. Even LonElec's cables have this issue, perhaps moreso since they use the ECU for power ground. It will cause alternator noise to be fed straight into the ECU.

Also open up the thing with the led, look what is written on the chips, if you have a 232rl in it. sometimes you don't get an 232rl but a cheaper less capable ftdi chip.
Or the adapter cable is wrong made, we ghad that before. there are connection pictures earlier in this thread I think
I personally use a WinChipHead CH341 with Pin4+5 soldered and have no issues. However, I understand not everyone solders and need something that "just works", and I support LonElec for offering an excellent product. Also, some may want to use this cable for TuneECU.

After the FTDI fiasco ( #FTDIgate ) (link) (http://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-admits-to-bricking-innocent-users-chips-in-silent-update/), I started recommending the FT232BL chipset (lacking programmable EEPROM) unless there is a reason you need the ChipID feature. You can tell by a "small square" chip as opposed to a "long rectangular" chip. If TuneECU supported WCH341 I would drop FTDI completely.

We can already connect our 5AM ecu's to a smart phone via the ScanM5X app. and pretty good it is too.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scantwin.scanmM5.AllinOne&hl=en
I actually have been working with Christian to add features to his app.  :)

He ported the code to support Innovate Motorsport's serial protocol to Android, and I am walking through making a cheap bluetooth dongle to connect it. I've attached a video (link) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJLsfbV3tYA) -- you can now datalog single- or dual- wideband AFR at around 4-5Hz wirelessly! The key point is it costs less than $200 in parts to set up. It is the absolute cheapest and most accurate datalogging solution currently. Even a PCV relies on sampling the analog signal from the TPS. This ScanM5X feature is all digital through the ECU. It can even "autotune" (in passes, not immediately) based on target AFRs by using the free Logworks3 app.

The development thread behind the idea is elsewhere, but hope to write a full tutorial on par with Beetle's eventually.

Also, Christian is now playing around with an Arduino.  ;-T
Many cool things are to come!

One final note, I have many, many, many Guzzi firmwares from dumping every bike I come across. Some have been hosted on 92GTA's open-source firmware site ( http://irok.org/ftp ), but it is far from complete. I haven't had the time to sort through and upload the Guzzi firmwares, especially because I am unfamiliar with the models. I encourage you to consider uploading well-commented professionally dynoed and stock/original maps so others may benefit from them! Every bike is different, and a full datalog is best, but it would help other riders without access to a dyno very much. I hope to upload the Guzzi maps I do have (~30 at last count) once I can name them in an appropriate manner.

Also, please consider revising/adding to the open-source XDF repository. ( http://motoxdf.wikia.com ) It is set up so anyone can add or correct XDFs with minimal effort if you see a problem. I fully admit I am terrible with Wiki-code, and would appreciate your help.
Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on December 29, 2014, 04:23:29 PM
Hi Impulsive Duc

I believe some people here have been working with this app, but for some reason I could never get it to work 100% for me. I could log most of the ECU data, but never the AFR (I have a 2 lambda model). I gave up on trying to make it work when I switched to a wideband sensor.

But it seems from your video that you are combining data from the ECU together with wideband AFR data. Could you elaborate on that setup?

Specifically:

1) are you simulating a narrow band signal into the ECU via an Innovate controller or similar, so that all data comes through the one Bluetooth dongle? Or are you somehow using two separate signal sources? (A solution using innovate controllers for two wideband sensors is unfortunately costly and bulky)
2) the version of the app shown seems to be a 1.10b. I have tried the 1.07 and see now that there is an update to 1.09. But neither of these show the AFR via Bluetooth option in the settings menu that you show. Will this version be released soon? (This setting is intriguing as it implies a separate signal source for AFR, but I don't see how that can be possible via Bluetooth if the Android device is already connected to the ECU via Bluetooth)

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but I'd really like to see how this was all connected and set up.

John

PS: the link to the site with various maps opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, but I wonder how you can somehow document what the content of each map is? Some will have a lot of modifications, and may be based on other maps that are in turn also modified. The small text files might not be enough to make that all clear. Also, the setup of each motorcycle is very relevant. Do you have any ideas on sorting according to e.g. exhaust type?

Thanks again for the post. It's very interesting for me.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Impulsive_Duc on December 30, 2014, 04:47:29 AM
I don't want to detract from the topic of GuzziDiag too much, but I will happy to discuss it briefly. :)
Please see the links below for the "short and sweet":

Also, I have attached the debug version of ScanM5X here for you to test. We are up to "1.10d". :)
I may know the reason for your issues. Is your Bluetooth dongle the correct version? Chinese make many fake-version clones.
Read the ScanM5X reviews in Google Play, I describe how to test for clones using ELM327 terminal app. You need "functional" version 1.4+.
Please let Christian know of any bugs! :) I will be writing a guide how to set up wideband input for it shortly.
(Link here -- may be removed without warning) (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/20hb4nqnxjqqbbw/AAAv6gjgypsWrCjm4yp-A2F9a?dl=0)

Short answer: Innovate sensors have a (2x) analog and (1x) RS232 serial output. We first investigated that the narrowband pin(s) on 5AM ECUs are actually a "0-5v" inputs! I connected an Innovate LC-2 anaog output directly and read through the ECU. However, reading "lambda" pins from the ECU has a big time penalty. (~150ms per pin). When I was unhappy with that, and the grounding issues affecting analog reading, I suggested (pestered  ;D) Christian to add serial support and supplied the decoding code. We use "two" bluetooth connections: one BT<->ELM327 for ECU, one BT<->RS232 dongle for Innovate data. No time penalty, and can have up to 32 channels of any sensor type! :D

Unfortunately, Innovate has been less than supportive in regards to supplying Christian test equipment. I have been subsidizing it and providing data in that regard. (I also provided Beard my code, should he decide to add Innovate support to GuzziDiag).

The LC-1 is indeed bulky, but the LC-2 is quite small. Due to the universal nature of the Innovate serial protocol, you may actually use a "Dual Channel" LM-2 handheld unit as well!



PS: Back to GuzziDiag :D I promise to say on-topic now, unless more information is desired and the discussion is OK.

You can see how we currently sort firmware for GuzziDiag -- I created a PERL script to parse BIN firmware and make a custom text descriptor as viewed here:
http://www.irok.org/ftp/Ducati%20Tuning/ECU%20BIN%20Files/Ducati/SportClassic/2229B29DAP5%20_2007_SportClassic_1000SE_Stock.bin.txt
It has various fields -- I tried to include ones from every software type. Most important is the "Checksum 16bit". For some reason, my MPPS cable reads firmware with a large chunk "00 00 00 00", but GuziDiag reads with "FF FF FF FF"? It is very odd. So while the MD5 sums are thrown out of whack, the 16bit CRC adder function remains unaffected by this discrepancy. I suspect using 16bit CRC may be the best way to detect "altered" firmware. And as 92GTA says, it falls upon trust for the rest.

Then we use a .txt file paired with the BIN to illustrate differences in exhaust type, user comments, etc. Some .bin.txt are very well made (the ones I try to make :) ) but some submitted by users are very brief, perhaps two words at most. It falls to me to sort through them all and verify them.... very tedious work.

Could you suggest a Guzzi model/made that I should try looking at? From what you state, you have a 1200 with Dual Lambda?
Beard's guidance, was very helpful when researching how to wire 2 wideband lambda into the ECU directly. :)

Edit: I created 2 new XDF pages (using GuzziDiag template) and uploaded 2 test firmware. It seems your NTX is only "One Lambda"? At least the XDF indicates so.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on December 30, 2014, 02:50:27 PM
If the 5AM ECU handles 0-5v from the sensors, that would suggest that a kind of "plug and play" wideband sensor kit is conceivable, where the rider could dial in the AFR required. A world of possibilities!:-). Is the time delay you mentioned really so problematic (compared to the standard narrow band signal)?

I'm using the dual channel LM2 you mentioned, so I don't think I'll be going back to the Scan App. (TPS/RPM/AFR data is enough for what I want). But if I do want to try it out, and if I understand you correctly, I could use the "analog out" data from the LM2 via BT, PLUS the data from a separate BT dongle connected to the ECU! Interesting. I didn't know it was possible to connect two BT devices simultaneously.

I'll think about it and maybe order a couple of new BT devices.
The biggest problem for me as a die hard Apple user will be to get the beta version of the App to work! :-).

Thanks for the insights!
John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 30, 2014, 03:17:44 PM
I have been experimenting with using a wideband sensor to dial in the wanted AFR to the 5AM. There's a couple of issues.

1. The 5AM expects a narrowband Rich/Stoic/Lean signal only. You must program an analog output to emulate a narrowband signal, but you can still choose your target AFR as your 'Stoic' point.

2. You can't use an LC-2. The LC-2 has a single ended output. A differential output is required or you get a SERVICE error. :D.  Fortunately this is a good thing, because it completely eliminates the offset voltage noise problem.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on December 30, 2014, 03:32:40 PM

1. The 5AM expects a narrowband Rich/Stoic/Lean signal only. You must program an analog output to emulate a narrowband signal, but you can still choose your target AFR as your 'Stoic' point.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of solution I meant. The ECU "thinks" it's at stoic, but you could dial in any AFR you want to match that stoic voltage. It would be much more accurate than a narrow band, and the standard ECU could handle it. Just need someone to make the kit! :-).

The disadvantage is that you're stuck with one AFR for all closed loop throttle / RPM positions, although I suppose it would be possible to have a remote switch (max power or cruise AFR at the press of a button).

John




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 30, 2014, 04:08:50 PM
John, I've not found a wideband controller with dual differential narrowband emulated outputs. In your case, you would need two single channel units operating in parallel. It would get pricey!

My kit is with a 2V 1200 Sport owner at this time, when I get it back I'll do a proof of concept.
Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on December 30, 2014, 04:28:27 PM
Hi Beetle, yes that's right.  I did actually approach a manufacturer here in Europe a couple of months back worth a suggestion that they think about producing such a wideband kit. Unfortunately they were not interested at this time. I think technically it shouldn't be such a big challenge, but there needs to be a certain ROI for the manufacturer, and I expect the potential Guzzi market is not big enough. Maybe so if you count the Ducati potential. In any case, as you point out, a self made solution is for me not a realistic proposition.

I'll follow your progress with your 1200 Sport kit with interest though!

John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 30, 2014, 04:38:31 PM
I'll start a new thread when I do. It's really out of scope for this thread. :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Impulsive_Duc on December 30, 2014, 06:58:50 PM
I have moved my reply to a new thread so as to not clutter this one. :)

As a final note, I have uploaded the new version of ScanM5X. Please let us know of any bugs!  ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on January 07, 2015, 08:53:07 AM
This would have some limitations for use as a real PC, mainly the 16GB would be an issue. But it might be really handy as a tool in the garage.
Load it up with GuzziDiag, all of your PDF manuals and schematics.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nextbook-8-Tablet-16GB-Windows-8.1-Bonus-16GB-Micro-SD-Card/38334382
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 07, 2015, 12:13:06 PM
I have been experimenting with using a wideband sensor to dial in the wanted AFR to the 5AM. There's a couple of issues.

1. The 5AM expects a narrowband Rich/Stoic/Lean signal only. You must program an analog output to emulate a narrowband signal, but you can still choose your target AFR as your 'Stoic' point.

2. You can't use an LC-2. The LC-2 has a single ended output. A differential output is required or you get a SERVICE error. :D.  Fortunately this is a good thing, because it completely eliminates the offset voltage noise problem.


 With my lc1 it works. Is the LC2 different in the connection? Just one wire connected. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 07, 2015, 03:21:28 PM
With my lc1 it works. Is the LC2 different in the connection? Just one wire connected. 

Interesting. No, they have the same wiring. Ill have another try soon, but at the moment my LC-2 is attached to a 1200 Sport with a roller top end.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on January 29, 2015, 08:32:04 AM
Hi everyone!!
I've recently joined to the happy owners of the MG.
Since my 2011 Stelvio 4V (single lambda) is a second hand bike I've started from disassemble everything (which needs cleaning or repair) and make it work as new.
I also have a BMW F650CS with Power Commander with wideband lambda. Tuning was a really success.
So I've decided to give it a try with Stelvio. I already order necessary equipment.
While I will be waiting for the stuff i decided to check TunerPro but I don't have any bin file for a test.
Could anyone send me some modified maps?
wacholek84@gmail.com

I would like to compare them with the original one from my bike but i have to wait for the cables.
Best regards,
Chris


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 30, 2015, 06:06:10 AM
Interesting. No, they have the same wiring. Ill have another try soon, but at the moment my LC-2 is attached to a 1200 Sport with a roller top end.

I checked, I have a wire on pin one of the lambda plug on the bike. I use the pin 4 + 12v to power the bluetooth adapter, so it goes on with the bike and can stay in the tooltray
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Californhihay on January 31, 2015, 05:39:50 AM
I do not know if this is in the right topic to post this, but i did download the maps with the guzzi-diag, I am new to tweaking the maps and have only downloaded the map from the ECU to try to cure a hot weather  pinking that sounds like it is just coming from the left cylinder. only under hard acceleration. 
I have loaded my bin file from my 2009 california and the XDF from the guzzi diag site. I was expecting to see one set of maps but have V11 & V7 in the file???
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/tog66/guzzi-spannering/tuner-31-01-2015_zpsa0380e8e.jpg) (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/tog66/media/guzzi-spannering/tuner-31-01-2015_zpsa0380e8e.jpg.html)

if i look at the V11 maps, they have dips at 3000 RPM for ignition and fuel. but the that is for the 15M & I have the 15RC in the vintage.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/tog66/guzzi-spannering/V11-ignition-map-2009-vintage_zps9d5c0c44.jpg) (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/tog66/media/guzzi-spannering/V11-ignition-map-2009-vintage_zps9d5c0c44.jpg.html)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/tog66/guzzi-spannering/V11-fuel-map-2009-vintage_zps07113b4a.jpg) (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/tog66/media/guzzi-spannering/V11-fuel-map-2009-vintage_zps07113b4a.jpg.html)

another question is should the .bin file be only 64Kb, even if it is simple binary file it took 15 minutes to download from the bike ECU.

I am not uploding my map hacking until i have learnt more, it is snowing outside so i have plenty of time until it comes to summer and the pinking comes back.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 31, 2015, 12:27:08 PM
64kb is the correct size for your map IIRC. The maps for the 5AM are 320kb and they also take 15 minutes. It is what it is.

The multiple tables for the V11 and V7 are simply allow one xdf for multiple bikes to use the 15x ECU, so there are different tables within the xdf for Tunerpro to interpret the bin.

Each map within the bin file may have different offsets and values, so ignore the maps under the V7 section.

Furthermore, the 'dips' may well be common to V11 maps with the same spec, regardless of whether it's a 15M or 15RC.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on January 31, 2015, 02:30:26 PM
I have my stock map from Stelvio. 2229STA42Z from 2011.03.03.
It is practically identical to the 2229STVAD42 2009 NTX. Only difference is that I have Conti ABS (1547).

Question 1: When I first started the bike the temperature of the engine was 0C (32F) so according to the Idle RPM table I should have 1400rpm. This value was also displayed in GuzziDiag under calculated RPM. But my Idle RPM was 1120-1180. When engine reached 60C (140F) idle was settled at 1200RPM. At 100C (212F) - 1225-1250. According to the workshop manual idle speed is 1100 +- 100 RPM. I have no fault codes stored.
My Stelvio fires up like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQifE1Q5nc8
Is it possible to tune the map that my Stelvio would fire up like 8V (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ML9WgHuAKA)?
If 1400 rpm when cold can't be achieved why such high values are stored in the ECU?

Question 2: Lambda 1 reading where always around 190mV during my test. I rev the engine up to 5000rpm and live it there for about 15s but nothing has changed. I understand that Lambda sensor is faraway from the cylinders but isn't it suppose to switch between 100mV nad 1V?

Question 3: My TPS was set at 4,6-4,5. According to the workshop manual it should be set on 4.7+-0.2. TPS reset haven't changed the value.

Question 4: Is it normal to have noticeable popping on engine breaking? Stock exhaust. Test on central stand. Rev it up to 6000 rpm and close the throttle. Popping can be heard from the exhaust.

Chris

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 31, 2015, 03:48:56 PM
q1: the ecu tries to reach the calculated value. It uses the stepper operated valve and I think ignition timing for that.  Just watch guzzidiag when it is idle what values change.  If circumstances are so that it can;t reach the number like 1400 rpm, so be it.  How long ago were throttle bodies cleaned?  The mechanical condition should be 100% first.
If you think it's running to low with cold start only, you can change the warm up map. I did that and now I can start and drive away just like it was warm.
well here is my startup from cold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55XQWkQeou4&list=UUZduDZdP8LPoXnPtIXfR7aA
I'm happy like this.

q2
The lambda is a smallband device and not very usefull in making the bike run better. I and a lot more have disabled the thing in the map. And the bike will run better. After some more map changing it will even run much better anyway.

q3
when it's 4.5 it is in the 0.2 range?
Further my understanding is that the lowest value in the fuel map is the value it gets after tps reset. Anyway the ecu sets the value at reset, nothing that can be done by guzzidiag, it just sends the command reset tps to the ecu.
The values in the workshop manual are not 100% correct when talking about the injection, the map is leading here. and idle of 1100 rpm is long ago I've seen a modern guzzi do that.
q4
Some people think it is a lot where others don't think it is when you give them the same bike. But yes they all do it a bit. Also depending on the map. And having an open silencer will make it worse.
What also can make it worse if some connection in the exhaust system are not airtight, be it gaskets or other things.

I have my stock map from Stelvio. 2229STA42Z from 2011.03.03.
It is practically identical to the 2229STVAD42 2009 NTX. Only difference is that I have Conti ABS (1547).

Question 1: When I first started the bike the temperature of the engine was 0C (32F) so according to the Idle RPM table I should have 1400rpm. This value was also displayed in GuzziDiag under calculated RPM. But my Idle RPM was 1120-1180. When engine reached 60C (140F) idle was settled at 1200RPM. At 100C (212F) - 1225-1250. According to the workshop manual idle speed is 1100 +- 100 RPM. I have no fault codes stored.
My Stelvio fires up like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQifE1Q5nc8
Is it possible to tune the map that my Stelvio would fire up like 8V (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ML9WgHuAKA)?
If 1400 rpm when cold can't be achieved why such high values are stored in the ECU?

Question 2: Lambda 1 reading where always around 190mV during my test. I rev the engine up to 5000rpm and live it there for about 15s but nothing has changed. I understand that Lambda sensor is faraway from the cylinders but isn't it suppose to switch between 100mV nad 1V?

Question 3: My TPS was set at 4,6-4,5. According to the workshop manual it should be set on 4.7+-0.2. TPS reset haven't changed the value.

Question 4: Is it normal to have noticeable popping on engine breaking? Stock exhaust. Test on central stand. Rev it up to 6000 rpm and close the throttle. Popping can be heard from the exhaust.

Chris


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on January 31, 2015, 04:20:47 PM
I must say that You have very nice cold start. But You have a 8V. I've noticed that the 8V stelvio has a much better start up than the 4V.
I think also that my worm up table is ok. Engine very reach. Although, idle has never gone above 1250rpm.
I haven't cleaned throttle bodies yet but I've done the balancing check. Perfect match. Bike has 22k km (13660 miles). TPS before reset was 4.6.
I was thinking that maybe something wrong with the stepper motor or clogged pips. I will check those.
About the popping i was just curious. On my F650CS ther is no popping on the stock exhaust.
I'm thinking of removing fuel totally from fuel table when the throttle is close and revs above 2000 rpm. Will see how it will behave then.

Do you have maybe some Stelvio maps from Your own bike to compare? 4V vs 8V.

Is it a good idea to buy innovate LC-2 kit and tune the map for AFR 14.0 across entire map? I've done it on my F650CS with PowerCommander. Huge difference.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 31, 2015, 04:32:20 PM
my bike is 2008 first model, now with roller cams. I added fuel in the first seconds, that is left side warm up table.

I have a number of innovate devices. They can help also in understanding what happens.

the thing with removing fuel from table has been tried before, I documented it here too. And it helps.

And yes I have maps, a lot :-)

compare your values with these. For changing, the current engine temp is where to look and change.
(http://s11.postimg.org/eczcb1ltf/warmuppaul.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 31, 2015, 05:22:18 PM
I must say that You have very nice cold start. But You have a 8V. I've noticed that the 8V stelvio has a much better start up than the 4V


Not sure what your mean here. There are no 4 valve Stelvio's. They all have the 8V motor.

The single lambda Stelvio was referred to as the '4V', and they dropped that when they released the 2 lambda models.

Quote
Is it a good idea to buy innovate LC-2 kit and tune the map for AFR 14.0 across entire map? I've done it on my F650CS with PowerCommander. Huge difference.


For best running with a stock exhaust, I recommend a target AFR of 13.5


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 31, 2015, 05:31:38 PM
marketing made 8v stelvios :-)
The same they did with the gt8v norge and 1200 sport 8v and griso 8v. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 31, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Tee hee! :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 01, 2015, 03:01:28 AM
marketing made 8v stelvios :-)
The same they did with the gt8v norge and 1200 sport 8v and griso 8v. 

Exactly.
But since the put two Lambdas in 8V the engine started to behave differently.
When you're engine is wormed, when you starting it, at the first you will have a jump of revs up to the 2000 rpm and then i should settle at around 1200rpm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ML9WgHuAKA

But mine and i think rest of the pre two lambda versions will slowly climb to 1200 rpm for a few seconds after the start and never reach 1400rpm when cold. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQifE1Q5nc8

That is mine, stock, worm up table. I will change it.
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo11/Krzysztof_Wachowiec/worm_zps1d510b0e.jpg)

How about the fuel table? Did you manage to minimize the dip in the torque characteristics? 

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Californhihay on February 01, 2015, 03:21:40 AM
thanks beetle, so i edit the V11's called15M maps even though I have the 15RC in the vintage.
Has any one edited a California vintage map to help with the slight hot detonation that I can compare to mine. other than that it is running good. ???
 or perhaps if the dips in the maps are not the cause, i should be altering another value as the detonation sounds like just the left cylinder.
i have checked every mechanical part is seated and tight.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 01, 2015, 04:31:18 AM
thanks beetle, so i edit the V11's called15M maps even though I have the 15RC in the vintage.
Has any one edited a California vintage map to help with the slight hot detonation that I can compare to mine. other than that it is running good. ???
 or perhaps if the dips in the maps are not the cause, i should be altering another value as the detonation sounds like just the left cylinder.
i have checked every mechanical part is seated and tight.

Is it detonation when accelerating? You are in the usa with the bad gas you have there?  I know a member here  lazlokovacs has been busy with that with a vintage. Send him a pm if he has a map for you
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 01, 2015, 03:28:24 PM
thanks beetle, so i edit the V11's called15M maps even though I have the 15RC in the vintage.

Yes.

Quote
or perhaps if the dips in the maps are not the cause, i should be altering another value as the detonation sounds like just the left cylinder.


The dips are there due to the volumetric efficiency of the engine at those RPM/TPS breakpoints. I wouldn't try to tweak them without knowing what is going on when you get detonation. If you are only getting it during hard acceleration, you may try adding some fuel to table 05 (ACCEL ENRICH). Take note of the RPM and (if possible) the throttle position. You can then get the TPS breakpoints from GuzziDiag by holding the throttle in the same position (without engine running of course). Don't go crazy and only increase in small amounts and then test ride until the pinging stops.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Californhihay on February 03, 2015, 12:20:35 PM
Is it detonation when accelerating? You are in the usa with the bad gas you have there?  I know a member here  lazlokovacs has been busy with that with a vintage. Send him a pm if he has a map for you

I am in the UK, it is only on hot days under load. I will PM him - thanks.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Californhihay on February 03, 2015, 12:29:50 PM
Yes.


The dips are there due to the volumetric efficiency of the engine at those RPM/TPS breakpoints. I wouldn't try to tweak them without knowing what is going on when you get detonation. If you are only getting it during hard acceleration, you may try adding some fuel to table 05 (ACCEL ENRICH). Take note of the RPM and (if possible) the throttle position. You can then get the TPS breakpoints from GuzziDiag by holding the throttle in the same position (without engine running of course). Don't go crazy and only increase in small amounts and then test ride until the pinging stops.



I could see that it could need to initially have a higher value in a map to get some velocity built up then dip to a smooth rise in value. but the 02-offset map is like the alps.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/tog66/guzzi-spannering/v11-offset_zps0732ba91.jpg) (http://s954.photobucket.com/user/tog66/media/guzzi-spannering/v11-offset_zps0732ba91.jpg.html)

 I will not be tweaking and uploading just yet, I have just got the hang of downloading and editing the maps. I will try to figure TPS brake point (starting by reading the beginning of this post for the 10th time), I will have a long wait to test ride hot as it is still snowing here, I would like to be ready to make the edits. (thanks)  
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 03, 2015, 03:08:16 PM
Don't get caught up in what the map looks like in 3D. Trying to smooth things out is a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 09, 2015, 10:48:08 AM

compare your values with these. For changing, the current engine temp is where to look and change.
(http://s11.postimg.org/eczcb1ltf/warmuppaul.jpg)

I've changed my worm-up map and i finally getting 1400rpm.   

I have one more question.   In section Ators there is a engine on stepper motor option ? What does it do?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 09, 2015, 12:58:59 PM
I've changed my worm-up map and i finally getting 1400rpm.   

I have one more question.   In section Ators there is a engine on stepper motor option ? What does it do?

stepper motor does open the stepper valve when you use that. But only with idle running engine. I never tried.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Brevadon on February 13, 2015, 04:50:33 PM
Hi all,
I'm starting to get back to using GuzziDiag on my Breva750 having lost out a years riding due to an injury. Weather is still raw here but i would like to begin sorting a problem I had with the bike.
The bike is dead standard with only 12K miles and well serviced. It starts well and runs very smoothly up to 2750rpm. Then it goes very lumpy up the rest of the range. I was interested to read the comments on plugs and caps earlier in the thread. I had new NGKs fitted. Do leads give problems? Are there better replacements?

Does anyone have a really good map for the 750 Breva (15rc) that has been found to work well? I've already loaded one I got from Paul ( with Lambda off) but it did not really improve things any.

Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 15, 2015, 03:58:10 PM
If I where you, I would start from the stock map. Bike have to run good before you change to the new map.

I've had something like that in my BMW.
Please do check the HV cables. It can be similar problem like with the spark plug caps.
In my BMW I've had problems with the fuel filter. So you can also check fuel pressure and injector cleanness.
Don't forget to check also air filter. I've seen one with mold on it after the winter.

Can you easy rev it above 2750rmp while standing still? Do You feel lack of power below 2750rpm?

One more check. Run on third and accelerating decently up from 2000 to 2300 than open throttle one max. If you start to filling less acceleration than before it mens fueling problem. If not or more power than maybe spark plugs/caps/HV cables. What color are your spark plugs?
Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Brevadon on February 16, 2015, 05:29:19 PM
Hi Wacholek,
Thanks for the suggestions. First, this problem goes back before the winter. Last Spring I had a new airfilter fitted, tappets done, timing checked etc.
Plug colour is near perfect. The bike runs and accelerates very smoothly up to 2750rpm. No trouble getting it to rev to max while static.
You asked about acceleration on the move. It will accelerate briskly to 2750rpm. No problem going on up past 2750rpm, maybe not as energetically as in the lower revs.

The main complaint is this lumpiness that comes in at that point coupled with a fair bit of vibration. The closest I can describe it is that it feels like it is firing too early before TDC and almost firing against the piston rather than with it. I don't get any pre-ignition noise or pinging.  I don't know if that description makes any sense. It does leave the bike unpleasant to ride because the vibes and lumpiness come into it in the normal cruising range in top.

The plugs are new NGKs and as I said the milage is low. The leads and caps will be the first checks to eliminate them as a problem. Hail showers have not encouraged any testing here just now!

Any leads on checking fuel pressure and injectors?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 17, 2015, 05:18:40 AM
Could be a coil too. TPS value is ok at idle? You see the tps goto >80 degree when opening the trottle max.?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Brevadon on February 17, 2015, 03:06:23 PM
Thanks Paul. Tps was ok last time I checked. I didnt check it full open.
I'm going to do a full Spring service , then go through all the checks suggested.
If I'm still beaten at that stage at least a lot of "suspects" will have been eliminated.

John
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 22, 2015, 03:19:37 PM
Hi,
I have one more question.
This is a log file from ScanM5X which I've made today.
Look at the TPS value. They are jumping around at idle.
RPM      TPS   Air Temp Eng Temp
1210   4.6   13   94
1230   4.7   13   94
1200   4.8   13   94
1220   4.6   13   94
1200   4.8   13   94
1200   4.6   13   94
1190   4.6   13   94

Generally TPS is bouncing between 4.5-4.9. I've noticed also that i have a free play of throttle inside the throttle body. When I move it on a side my TPS readings are changing.
Is that normal?

 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 22, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 22, 2015, 03:40:29 PM
I've just not used to that. There is nothing like this in my BMW.
Nevertheless bike is running smooth.

But I still have a problem with my Lambda sensor. As You can see I have constant voltage of 0.2V. The same is in GuzziDiag.
After a 10km ride my engine reach constant temp of 117C and even once during this ride Lambda haven't turned on.
I've checked my map and it is a stock map. Both my lambdas are on.
No DTC. Everything is working like it should.
????
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 23, 2015, 02:57:03 PM
I can't see the lambda data? Do you have a log I can look at?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 23, 2015, 04:10:30 PM
But I still have a problem with my Lambda sensor. As You can see I have constant voltage of 0.2V. The same is in GuzziDiag.
After a 10km ride my engine reach constant temp of 117C and even once during this ride Lambda haven't turned on.
I've checked my map and it is a stock map. Both my lambdas are on.
No DTC. Everything is working like it should.
????

If engine is warm, and running 3 minutes, at idle, you should be able to see the lambda regulation value change and after that the integrator should work too.  It should be not to cold, the air temp is leading, at least 20 degree's C and engine over 30 C
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sknapp351 on February 23, 2015, 06:21:16 PM
On a 2000 Jackal, what should the TPS readings be? I've found the readings for a meter, but not sure what degrees I should be expecting. Also, should I be reading it with the linkage connected or disconnected, engine running or no? Thanks!

Sam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on February 23, 2015, 07:21:46 PM
On a 2000 Jackal, what should the TPS readings be? I've found the readings for a meter, but not sure what degrees I should be expecting. Also, should I be reading it with the linkage connected or disconnected, engine running or no? Thanks!

Jackal, 15M, 3.6 degrees +-0.3. With or without the linkage since it should be resting on the idle stop at the throttle body. Engine running should only make it fluctuate some. Air screws 1/2 turn.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sknapp351 on February 23, 2015, 07:42:55 PM
Thank you!  Hopefully, I will be able to check mine out this weekend and see if I can find the problem.

Sam


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 24, 2015, 12:04:12 AM
If engine is warm, and running 3 minutes, at idle, you should be able to see the lambda regulation value change and after that the integrator should work too.  It should be not to cold, the air temp is leading, at least 20 degree's C and engine over 30 C

So maybe that is the problem. I worm up the engine but the the air temperature was always 13C. My lambda showing constant 0.2V in GuzziDiag and in ScanM5X. Stelvio have this value changing between 0 and 0.2V. On every video on youtube until air temp rich 20C lambda regulation not working. I will test that.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 24, 2015, 04:51:46 PM
when it's to cold, I just take the sensor out and between my fingers, at the moment it reaches 20C, lambda regulation started working
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on February 26, 2015, 04:03:12 PM
Ok I will check that tomorrow.
I've got one more question. Did You ever tried a map from Griso 8V in your Stelvio? Did it improve the power and torque?
Comparing those two maps an obvious thing can be noticed. Griso gets much more fuel. I've compared also the engine parts. Intake air duct is different but rest of it appears to be the same.
So where are those horses from Griso? Is it possible that this is just a different map?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 26, 2015, 04:27:18 PM
Ok I will check that tomorrow.
I've got one more question. Did You ever tried a map from Griso 8V in your Stelvio? Did it improve the power and torque?
Comparing those two maps an obvious thing can be noticed. Griso gets much more fuel. I've compared also the engine parts. Intake air duct is different but rest of it appears to be the same.
So where are those horses from Griso? Is it possible that this is just a different map?


I'm driving a griso based map for more than a year.   But only one lambda stelvios qualify for that, so the small tank ones.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 26, 2015, 05:08:04 PM
It's not as simple as "more fuel".  The intake and exhaust is different which affects what you can do.
Yes, the engines are exactly the same, but as Paul says, a map from one lambda bike won't run in a two lambda bike.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on March 01, 2015, 11:13:17 AM
Yes, the engines are exactly the same, but as Paul says, a map from one lambda bike won't run in a two lambda bike.

But it IS possible to copy the values from some of the tables in a 1 Lambda map and paste them into a 2 Lambda map. e.g.  main fuel or ignition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on March 01, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
This is not a problem problem for me since I've got a single Lambda system in my 2011 stelvio.
Actually I don't need more power. But some extra torque around 3000RPM would make a huge difference.
The same situation I've had with my BMW. I added a Power Commander to gain some torque in the middle. Huge difference. Max power and torque haven't changed.
So I will probably add a LC-2 set and emulate two different lambda settings and connect them trough the switch to the 5AM to maintain desired AFR. I know that the Lambda input in 5AM is differential but there won't be a problem with that.
Two quick questions.
1. Is it posible to connect negative lambda 5AM input to GND without burning anything?
2. If not, what a negative value of potential will be between negative Lambda connector and GND? Or it won't be at all?
Anyone have any information about that?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 01, 2015, 12:09:01 PM
But it IS possible to copy the values from some of the tables in a 1 Lambda map and paste them into a 2 Lambda map. e.g.  main fuel or ignition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes that is possible, but the tps values are different so what you copy from one table, doesn't fit the tps values in the other, so yes it will start, but you certainly get different running
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 01, 2015, 12:11:45 PM
This is not a problem problem for me since I've got a single Lambda system in my 2011 stelvio.
Actually I don't need more power. But some extra torque around 3000RPM would make a huge difference.
The same situation I've had with my BMW. I added a Power Commander to gain some torque in the middle. Huge difference. Max power and torque haven't changed.
So I will probably add a LC-2 set and emulate two different lambda settings and connect them trough the switch to the 5AM to maintain desired AFR. I know that the Lambda input in 5AM is differential but there won't be a problem with that.
Two quick questions.
1. Is it posible to connect negative lambda 5AM input to GND without burning anything?
2. If not, what a negative value of potential will be between negative Lambda connector and GND? Or it won't be at all?
Anyone have any information about that?


It is possible to connect the lc2 to the lambda input, I have a lm1 working this way.
But don't rely on lambda tuning, by changing lambda value.
Better switch of lambda and get a better map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on March 01, 2015, 12:36:19 PM
It is possible to connect the lc2 to the lambda input, I have a lm1 working this way.
But don't rely on lambda tuning, by changing lambda value.
Better switch of lambda and get a better map.

I know that Guzzi is totally different than BMW. But there, I firstly tune the PC to desire AFR to set the optimum value and than I played with the map. Since map is being used only when ECU is in open loop so it will be when you accelerating or decelerating significantly. Than values from the map should be relevant.
I've set my BMW in way, that when I riding steady and than open throttle on max at around 3000rpm my AFR is constant at 13.7:1. Without any jumps up and down on acceleration and deceleration.
It is not an optimum value. Bike is running the best on 13:1 but than it consume a lot of fuel during cruising.
Using LC-2 would let me switch (by external circuit) between first and second output to choose designed AFR.
Pauldaytona how did you connect those LC-2 outputs to 5AM?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 01, 2015, 04:04:48 PM
I know that Guzzi is totally different than BMW. But there, I firstly tune the PC to desire AFR to set the optimum value and than I played with the map. Since map is being used only when ECU is in open loop so it will be when you accelerating or decelerating significantly. Than values from the map should be relevant.
I've set my BMW in way, that when I riding steady and than open throttle on max at around 3000rpm my AFR is constant at 13.7:1. Without any jumps up and down on acceleration and deceleration.
It is not an optimum value. Bike is running the best on 13:1 but than it consume a lot of fuel during cruising.
Using LC-2 would let me switch (by external circuit) between first and second output to choose designed AFR.
Pauldaytona how did you connect those LC-2 outputs to 5AM?

I have a wire(analog out from lc-1) on pin 1 of the lambda plug on the bike.

The ecu works different as you think. It has a main fuel map and main ignition map. On these maps are correction maps, like temperature. But also the lambda corrects that main map. But only as you drive constant and not to fast.  And the correction value it has, accumulates over time as a correction on the whole fuel map.  You can reset that with the autolearning parameter.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on March 02, 2015, 02:54:17 PM
I have a wire(analog out from lc-1) on pin 1 of the lambda plug on the bike.

The ecu works different as you think. It has a main fuel map and main ignition map. On these maps are correction maps, like temperature. But also the lambda corrects that main map. But only as you drive constant and not to fast.  And the correction value it has, accumulates over time as a correction on the whole fuel map.  You can reset that with the autolearning parameter.


Did You disconnect your Lambda sensor totally or just pin 1 or 1 and 2? I think ECU has a heater detection and maybe also the sensing detection.

Every ECU is different. I will figure out how to tune this one primarily.

Did You made a change in any of delta maps? Those values should not be changed since they are related with the intake and exhaust properties. And in the same time they should be changed when new exhaust where installed.

But I was thinking about something else. In most of the modern motorcycle an exhaust valve is mounted. Like EXAP. I helps to keep a good low RPM torque, max power at the high RPM.
It is widely explained in the Internet. So I'm wander what is the angle when intake and exhaust valves are open simultaneously? Is this engine is tuned for low RPM torque or maybe for max power? I think for more power since max torque and power are almost in the same rpms.
So maybe and extra back pressure will add some torque in the low-midle rpm. Did any one tried to block one of the exhaust outlets and made a dyno run?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on March 02, 2015, 03:34:34 PM
The cylinder head design, included valve angle, and long valve overlap are things that most people overlook. I prefer not to use the term 'Back Pressure' as this is principally a harmonic phenomenon but more actual physical resistance to flow in the exhaust has been proven to improve VE and therefore the torque of the motor when compared to the 'Open' systems beloved by Noisy Morons and many 'Conventional' tuners.

Beetle's experience clearly backs this up as his bike and mine are virtually identical apart from the fact he now has an Arrow Ti exhaust system that eschews the 'Pretzel' in the Griso's exhaust. His bike has lost low end torque and midrange but has gained at higher engine speeds. The 'Pretzel' adds considerable resistance to gas flow, as does the extra length of the Mistral Hi-Pipe we both use, with its dB killer installed.

The results are obviously a matter of choice but I much prefer the great bottom end and midrange torque my machine displays to the rather pointless quest for greater maximum horsepower. I believe that Mark is also searching for someone to replicate the original 'Pretzel' in Ti to regain the lost bottom end oomph.

Experimentation with the dB killer removed delivered an engine that *Felt* more powerful but probably wasn't. What it was was considerably harsher and more vibratory and the charge transition issues resulted in lower VE and higher fuel consumption. The sole 'Benefit' really being more noise. Since I for one hate noisy motorbikes it was a 'Benefit' I'm happy to live without!

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 02, 2015, 03:59:40 PM
Did You disconnect your Lambda sensor totally or just pin 1 or 1 and 2? I think ECU has a heater detection and maybe also the sensing detection.

Every ECU is different. I will figure out how to tune this one primarily.

Did You made a change in any of delta maps? Those values should not be changed since they are related with the intake and exhaust properties. And in the same time they should be changed when new exhaust where installed.


Lambda sensor is out. But I know someone has used it instead of the lambda with lc-2. The sensing detection senses if values change, they will if they get lc-2 input.
I'm aware of the delta map working.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: 190 Octane on March 02, 2015, 04:10:44 PM
I've downloaded Guzzidiag plus the reader and writer and tunerpro.  I still need to buy the cable.

I'm in the middle of an engine swap (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74692.0) and I'm looking to flash my Cali Stone ecu with a V11 map.

Does anyone know where I can get a V11 map?

I have a H-pipe, Mistrals, and an open airbox, so a map for those or similar mods would be a plus. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 02, 2015, 05:18:10 PM
Sigh.

You don't want back pressure. Back pressure is bad.  At lower rpm's you need go keep the exhaust velocity high to maximize torque. That's how EXUP systems work. They don't increase back pressure, they increase gas velocity.  The higher the gas velocity, the better scavenging. The less power the engine uses to push the exhaust gas out, the more power goes to the rear wheel.

Adding a restrictor to the exhaust will completely mess up the fueling. You will need to change the main map, ignition and delta fuel. It's a waste of time and an exercise in futility.

Guzzi have tuned these engines for a good overall performance on the road. It's not designed as a torque monster to pull down small buildings or a power monster to race RSV4's. It's a compromise.

If you want maximum torque, design an exhaust that is longer and sized correctly. Or build an EXUP system for it.

And yes, there is current sensing in the ECU for the lambda probe.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 02, 2015, 05:21:06 PM
Does anyone know where I can get a V11 map?

I have a H-pipe, Mistrals, and an open airbox, so a map for those or similar mods would be a plus. 


I can send you a stock V11 map. I don't have anything for those mods though.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: 190 Octane on March 02, 2015, 09:38:42 PM

I can send you a stock V11 map. I don't have anything for those mods though.

I'll PM you my email address.  A stock V11 map has to be a better start than the stock Stone map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on March 08, 2015, 04:02:24 PM
Sigh.

You don't want back pressure. Back pressure is bad.  At lower rpm's you need go keep the exhaust velocity high to maximize torque. That's how EXUP systems work. They don't increase back pressure, they increase gas velocity.  The higher the gas velocity, the better scavenging. The less power the engine uses to push the exhaust gas out, the more power goes to the rear wheel.

Adding a restrictor to the exhaust will completely mess up the fueling. You will need to change the main map, ignition and delta fuel. It's a waste of time and an exercise in futility.

Guzzi have tuned these engines for a good overall performance on the road. It's not designed as a torque monster to pull down small buildings or a power monster to race RSV4's. It's a compromise.

If you want maximum torque, design an exhaust that is longer and sized correctly. Or build an EXUP system for it.

And yes, there is current sensing in the ECU for the lambda probe.


What is a diameter of the exhaust pipes in breva 1100? Stelvio have 58-59mm. But it has only 49mm when it gets to the triple joiner. So when we're talking about the higher gas velocity the 49mm pipes would do the increase gas velocity. I'm just thinking at loud.

Chris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 08, 2015, 04:46:00 PM
The headers are double-walled, so the actual diameter is ~49mm.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on March 08, 2015, 05:23:02 PM
I didn't know that. Good to know. Thanks!!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on April 12, 2015, 11:36:34 AM
Hi,
I was finally able to fire up the new season. So the tunning has started.
And I already have few questions.
I was analyzing the single and double lambda stelvio's map. I use a XDF from a GuzziDiag web page (V1.29) and Tuner PRO build 5.00.8519.00.
When the double lambda stelvio's map was loaded (double lambda XDF) I've noticed that the Ignition ADV map was corrupted. At the first glance everything was ok but the values of 65 degree was... to big for me. Differences between single and double lambda system was about 15 deg. Every other map was ok. So I use a different program. ECM Edit & Custom Map. And there everything was ok. There ware just a minor differences between between single and double lambda system.

Yes that is possible, but the tps values are different so what you copy from one table, doesn't fit the tps values in the other, so yes it will start, but you certainly get different running

I spend several hours on the single and double lambda system maps to make a copy of a double lambda system map to single lambda system maps. The most significant difference is the TPS Value map. So I had to interpolate the points of the TPS which I didn't have. Annoying procedure... But I was finally able to compare the single and double lambda system maps and I thing the double lambda system maps should be better (I'm comparing a stock maps only). In that way I manage to made a true double lambda system map for single lambda system maps. I haven't put it on the bike yet but I will do it just after I install the LC-2.
For now I'm running the stock map with lambda turned off. Very reach mixture. Fuel consumption.... well.. I'm not going to talk about it. But the drivability is great. Smooth as butter.


It is possible to connect the lc2 to the lambda input, I have a lm1 working this way.
But don't rely on lambda tuning, by changing lambda value.
Better switch of lambda and get a better map.


How to connect the LC-2 to a differential ECU input without errors? How to fool the ECU to not showing error when heater will be disconnected? (dummy load only?)

Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 12, 2015, 06:42:11 PM
I was analyzing the single and double lambda stelvio's map. I use a XDF from a GuzziDiag web page (V1.29) and Tuner PRO build 5.00.8519.00.
When the double lambda stelvio's map was loaded (double lambda XDF) I've noticed that the Ignition ADV map was corrupted. At the first glance everything was ok but the values of 65 degree was... to big for me. Differences between single and double lambda system was about 15 deg. Every other map was ok. So I use a different program. ECM Edit & Custom Map. And there everything was ok. There ware just a minor differences between between single and double lambda system.


The 1-lambda maps and 2-lambda maps require different XDF's. The data offsets are completely different between the two types of map.
 


Quote
How to connect the LC-2 to a differential ECU input without errors? How to fool the ECU to not showing error when heater will be disconnected? (dummy load only?)


If you are only trying to log AFR, then turn lambda off in the map. If you are trying to use a wideband sensor to trim via simulated narrowband output, you need a dummy load, as the ECU has current sensing.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wacholek on April 13, 2015, 12:08:22 AM

The 1-lambda maps and 2-lambda maps require different XDF's. The data offsets are completely different between the two types of map.

I'm aware of that.
Examples from TunerPro
Single lambda system
(http://s18.postimg.org/vk7xfyke1/image.jpg)

Double lambda system
(http://s28.postimg.org/vbrg9ymnh/image.jpg)

Double lambda system from ECM
(http://s18.postimg.org/m1c0rq115/image.jpg)

I belie that there is a misinterpretation somewhere in the XDF file for double lambda system.

This is the stelvio STA42Z map (single lambda) in compare to the 3222ST02_CM227005 map ( double lambda) which was rewritten to match the TPS from single lambda system. As as source of the Ignition ADV 3222ST02_CM227005 map I used ECM.
As You probably already noticed the double lambda system map is very alike the one from the single system with the different region where the adv decreases. In other words, adv down-slope appears with smaller TPS angle compared to the STA42Z map.
(http://s9.postimg.org/r5ukz8bhr/image.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 13, 2015, 06:59:42 PM
Stupid question, how do I know if I should download the 5AM software or the 15AM?  I have a 2014 Norge and and patiently waiting for my cables and a few other items to show up before "digging in".  I'm also going to sync the throttle bodies but haven't found much info(none in the downloaded shop manual)!  Thanks, Kris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 13, 2015, 07:22:56 PM
Norge uses the W5AM.

TB synch is very simple.

Brief instructions.

http://www.grisoghetto.com/t390-throttle-body-balancing

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 13, 2015, 07:33:56 PM
Thanks for the info, Pete.  Will be downloading in the next few days and doing the upgrades, just hard to find free time!
Also, since mine is a US model I'm assuming I don't need to order the carb adapters?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 13, 2015, 10:04:05 PM
Errr? Carb adapters? For what?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 13, 2015, 10:48:10 PM
I think he means the screw-in fittings for the hoses to attach to the manifold.

You may need to order some. I don't know if the fittings will fit.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 14, 2015, 02:24:30 AM
Ah, I get it. The US bikes have spigots for the charcoal canister system rather than blanking screws like we do. You have to remove the hoses to get to them.

In all honesty if you are keeping the charcoal can just by the fittings and remove the banjos when you want to use the tool.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 14, 2015, 08:48:46 AM
Ah, I get it. The US bikes have spigots for the charcoal canister system rather than blanking screws like we do. You have to remove the hoses to get to them.

In all honesty if you are keeping the charcoal can just by the fittings and remove the banjos when you want to use the tool.

"Once these are closed and you've removed the screws from the inlet manifolds or disconnected the suck hoses for the charcoal can on US bikes start the bike and warm it up. You can connect your scan tool/Guzzidiag while its warming up."

From reading the above it seems I would just unplug the suck hoses and use those nipples to plug in my twinmax, at least that's how it was on my BMW's.  Sorry, I don't want to take the tupperware off to look until I have everything on hand.  I'll probably remove the canister at some point, need to read up on the canisterectomy.  ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: katanaman on April 15, 2015, 01:42:18 AM
Hi, can anyone point me in the right direction or share/email me a map that would suite a 2012 Stelvio running a MIVV exhaust with no Db killer. (maybe one for Db installed as well would be handy if such a thing exists. I have one for stock exhaust but assume i should run something more specific....

 email is andy.coates@westnet.com.au

everything else is stock standard and will remain this way

thanks in advance

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 15, 2015, 01:54:21 AM
The 8V really does run a lot better with a dB killer installed regardless of pipe.

I don't think Mark has anything Stelvio specific for a non dBk set up and all of the 2o2 Stelvio maps are 'Works in progress'. You can't log build a map without a bike to log.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 15, 2015, 02:54:22 AM
Hi, can anyone point me in the right direction or share/email me a map that would suite a 2012 Stelvio running a MIVV exhaust with no Db killer. (maybe one for Db installed as well would be handy if such a thing exists. I have one for stock exhaust but assume i should run something more specific....


A couple of days ago I posted in the Stelvio thread over on the ADV forum about the logging work I did making the map for my 2 Lambda Stelvio.   

It's designed for a Zard Exhaust WITH dB killer, and no inlet mods. I do not know if it will work well on a bike with no dB killer but you can try it if you want to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2015, 02:59:51 AM
I have one for stock exhaust but assume i should run something more specific....


Did you try that one I sent you?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: katanaman on April 15, 2015, 05:01:03 AM
Hi again, I dont get to see my bike until Saturday. .. work off shore... I will try your map beetle and thank you heaps for sending it through.  i thought I would put it out there for some others while im away so I can try them if I have to  when I get home.  I may use the db killer yet, but think the sound of the guzzi should be let free :-)

I also thought someone would have a map for a 2012 stelvio with aftermarket pipe .

Yes please john I would love  to try the map for the stelvio with zard exhaust

Cheers
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Blind Lemon Ade on April 25, 2015, 10:27:59 AM
I am having a lot of trouble getting GuzziDiag to run...

It's on a HP 6735s laptop, running Linux Mint 17 Quiana, although my Linux skills are not very good...

The bike is a Breva 1100, 2005.

I have a LonElec cable, and downloaded the .tgz files for Diag, Reader, Writer and Tester for Linux 32 bit, and the IAW 5AM ecu.

The programs were extracted using the TAR command, by SUDO (Super-User Do ?), and placed in a library called GuzziDiag.

So, I have connected the cable to the bike, clipped on the power leads, and the LED lights up.

I plug the USB in, and I can see the FDTI device listed among the USB devices in Linux.

When i run the AdapterTest program as SUDO, it says "Success!"

However, when I run GuzziDiag as SUDO, the very first time it puts up a window with a "select" box in it - the select box is empty, and the drop-down arrow doesn't show any options. If I press OK, the main Diag screen flashes up, with a blank message box in front, then disappears.

Every subsequent time, only the Diag screen and blank message box flash up, and disappear.

I can see that after the first time, file GuzziDiag_V.0ini has been created, with the contents:

[Settings]
Language =

...and nothing else.

Also, it created a library "Ibus" with another library "Bus", both empty.

In the SYSLOG error log, it says:

Apr 25 16:24:50 HP-6735s kernel: [ 3824.870007] GuzziDiag_V0.46[2941]: segfault at 8 ip 00000000080643a9 sp 00000000ffa5c460 error 4 in GuzziDiag_V0.46[8048000+95000]

That is all... help! WTF is going on?




Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 25, 2015, 06:11:05 PM
There was a bug in the 32 bit version that caused the segfault you are experiencing. Download the fixed version and try again.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Blind Lemon Ade on April 26, 2015, 06:40:57 AM
Thank you! I see the fixed version on the download site, now... I'll give it a go!  8)

*later*

Excellent! I now have the program running on the laptop - I'll go and plug it into the bike...

*even later*

I have reset my TPS, as a first step. Success! Many thanks for this excellent tutorial.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 26, 2015, 10:11:18 AM
Having no luck getting connected with a Mac, anybody out there have any suggestions?  Tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers on my mac(the one's from guzzidiag website), connected everything up, went to file>connect, get the message "ignition off".  Turned the ignition on and tried again, same message.  Any ideas?

Thanks, Kris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 26, 2015, 04:29:48 PM
Having no luck getting connected with a Mac, anybody out there have any suggestions?  Tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers on my mac(the one's from guzzidiag website), connected everything up, went to file>connect, get the message "ignition off".  Turned the ignition on and tried again, same message.  Any ideas?

Thanks, Kris

 And now the question is, is it the cables or the Mac? You can see the right driver attached to the com port? The same as you see in Guzzidiag?  Other way would be to try a windows laptop/pc if you have one around. When that works, you know it's some mac software thing.

 I'm not a mac guy, but I thought that from newer osx, the ftdi driver is in the kernel, so nothing needed.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: toma nova on April 26, 2015, 08:40:45 PM
Having no luck getting connected with a Mac, anybody out there have any suggestions?  Tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers on my mac(the one's from guzzidiag website), connected everything up, went to file>connect, get the message "ignition off".  Turned the ignition on and tried again, same message.  Any ideas?

Thanks, Kris

I use an older Mac in the garage and often have to restart guzzidiag or even download it again from the site.  I think the Mac version is a bit unstable, but with persistence, I've been able to reset TPS, download and save the stock map, and even write a new map with lambdas off to the bike.

So, keep trying with the Mac, it may take several attempts but will eventually work.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on April 26, 2015, 10:08:42 PM
The only time I've had problems with my Mac, I was using the wrong ECU version. I felt small.  :P
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 27, 2015, 08:26:43 AM
I use an older Mac in the garage and often have to restart guzzidiag or even download it again from the site.  I think the Mac version is a bit unstable, but with persistence, I've been able to reset TPS, download and save the stock map, and even write a new map with lambdas off to the bike.

So, keep trying with the Mac, it may take several attempts but will eventually work.

Thanks, I'll keep trying.  I'll do what you said and remove and download again.  Do you find much difference with lamdas off?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 27, 2015, 08:31:36 AM
The only time I've had problems with my Mac, I was using the wrong ECU version. I felt small.  :P

Ha! Funny!  I've got the right version, I was told to use the 5am.  Problem is it's not working on a Mac or pc.  I'm sure it's a minor glitch and I'll get it figured out with enough persistance.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on April 27, 2015, 10:35:11 AM
Hmm, I suspect the cable. Some cable sets are Windows only (provided you end up with good drivers). "Correct" cables will work with either machine.

Or someone got you on the wrong ECU (I have no experience to tell you the right one) since it's not working with either Mac or PC.

Come to think of it, the other common failure mode, choosing the wrong wire port on the bike. Some bikes have two, one for the ECU and other is for something else (no memory of what it is for, primary reason seems to be to confuse home mechanics :)  ). Try the second port to see if that leads to success.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 27, 2015, 03:28:03 PM
Ha! Funny!  I've got the right version, I was told to use the 5am.  Problem is it's not working on a Mac or pc.  I'm sure it's a minor glitch and I'll get it figured out with enough persistance.

 what bike?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 27, 2015, 04:55:49 PM
what bike?


2014 Norge
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 27, 2015, 04:57:06 PM
5AM is correct for Norge.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 27, 2015, 06:16:58 PM
5AM is correct for Norge.

Pete

 And the 8v Doesn't have a second 3 pin diagnostic plug, so that can't be a mistake either.  The led goes on in the adapter as you connect it to the bike?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 27, 2015, 09:03:53 PM
And the 8v Doesn't have a second 3 pin diagnostic plug, so that can't be a mistake either.  The led goes on in the adapter as you connect it to the bike?

Yes, the led comes on.  Light's on but nobody's home!  I know I've got the right plug as some of the readings do come up(engine temp, co, tps((get an error message when I try to reset)), and a few others I can't think of at the moment).  Unfortunately I'm swamped trying to get my new work truck on the road and haven't had much time to mess with or ride the Guzzi  :(.  I did manage to get a valve check in this afternoon.  Two intake valves were just a hair on the loose side so I tightened them up a smidgen.  So far the bike is a pleasure to work on, but the service manual isn't much help!
Thanks folks for any and all of your help  ;-T
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 28, 2015, 06:12:32 AM
And now you tell you have a connection, only it isn't stable.  ??? Makes a different story. Can be two things,
A the hardware isn't so good.
B The driver is not the right one.

And since you mentioned on windows you had the problem too, what has different driver and OS, I would look at the adapter. You got a windows unstable connection too?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 29, 2015, 08:49:48 AM
And now you tell you have a connection, only it isn't stable.  ??? Makes a different story. Can be two things,
A the hardware isn't so good.
B The driver is not the right one.

And since you mentioned on windows you had the problem too, what has different driver and OS, I would look at the adapter. You got a windows unstable connection too?

In an earlier post on this thread I mentioned that I was getting some readings with a Windows connection, this was using the driver downloaded from Lonelec, I also tried the one from Guzzidiag, appears to be the same but I'm not a computer guy so not sure.
I finally have a little time today to work on it.  Going to start fresh by removing the programs and reinstalling, hopefully taking a few days away will solve things  :)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on April 29, 2015, 03:27:09 PM
This conversation, and the Not-a-Rally finally got me off my butt to load up that last  (From last August!) map sent out for a stock bike.

I did find, and remembered on the second attempt, that it connects better if I put the cursor over the OK button so I can click it right after the I turn the key on.

Otherwise it refuses to connect. :p
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on April 29, 2015, 03:49:59 PM
For a Windows machine, disable all other USB devices. Shut down the laptop or PC. Start it back up and disable all connections to the Internet (WiFi/ethernet) and any Bluetooth. Disable your anti-virus software (you won't need it since you won't be browsing the web).

Don't use any USB cable extenders.

Then try again.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 29, 2015, 06:29:10 PM
SUCCESS!!! Finally got my Mac to connect with my Norge.  Had to disable the Mac driver and she connected right away!  Thanks for all your input, now I just need a map.

I synced the throttle bodies but I'm having some trouble.  Followed the instructions exactly as it says and got everything in sync, took the bike for a ride and seemed to be running hotter than normal.  I rechecked the sync and now it's way off, redid it, took for a ride and now it's way off again. Anybody have a clue?  I'm using a Carbmate and a Twinmax and getting the same result with both.  Also connected to Guzzidiag and the temp was at 125c!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on April 29, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
Have you removed the charcoal canister? If so you'll have to block the vacuum pipe that went from the canister to the manifolds.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 30, 2015, 04:10:03 AM
SUCCESS!!! Finally got my Mac to connect with my Norge.  Had to disable the Mac driver and she connected right away!  Thanks for all your input, now I just need a map.

I synced the throttle bodies but I'm having some trouble.  Followed the instructions exactly as it says and got everything in sync, took the bike for a ride and seemed to be running hotter than normal.  I rechecked the sync and now it's way off, redid it, took for a ride and now it's way off again. Anybody have a clue?  I'm using a Carbmate and a Twinmax and getting the same result with both.  Also connected to Guzzidiag and the temp was at 125c!

Well then the driver you did install is to old, as I wrote, now OSX does have an ftdi driver in the kernel.

Thats from maverics:
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/technotes/tn2315/_index.html
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 30, 2015, 08:20:36 AM
Have you removed the charcoal canister? If so you'll have to block the vacuum pipe that went from the canister to the manifolds.

Pete

No, the bike is completely stock.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on April 30, 2015, 06:41:34 PM
Well then the driver you did install is to old, as I wrote, now OSX does have an ftdi driver in the kernel.

Thats from maverics:
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/technotes/tn2315/_index.html

It was the MAC driver that I had to disable.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 02, 2015, 02:32:41 AM
Updated the OP to current releases, plus added Linux and Mac links.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: lorazepam on May 04, 2015, 09:26:49 PM
Is it worth remapping my '14 V7 stone if I put on the Lafranconi Competizione mufflers?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Punch on May 12, 2015, 04:56:16 AM
A couple of days ago I posted in the Stelvio thread over on the ADV forum about the logging work I did making the map for my 2 Lambda Stelvio.   

Can you post a link please - logging is SO important to me.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 12, 2015, 05:22:56 AM
Can you post a link please - logging is SO important to me.
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26723585&postcount=12936
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Punch on May 12, 2015, 05:34:32 AM
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26723585&postcount=12936
Many thanks.

Like many or some of us I have spent ages doing an Excel workbook to analyse data.

It is very interesting to me, not for profit, just for my bike to be better and to help others.

I now have my LC-1 back from a friend and the ScanST software.  Next is to "convert" from LC-1 serial output to USB.
I have read on ducati.ms that ScanST has been coded to take LC-1 AFR data straight from the serial DB9 connector.
Not having a DB9 port, I have been looking at how to get DB9 to USB.
I understand I do not need the special (FTDI) serial to USB to do this, but I am still unsure.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 12, 2015, 06:29:20 AM
Punch, this topic is about getting guzzidiag up and running, maybe open an own topic with questions about logging? 
Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on May 12, 2015, 06:30:14 AM
Others here (Paul for example!) are much more competent to help than I am when it comes to the Scan App, but here is what I was at least planning to do.
I understand that the App has now been updated to read twin lambda signals, and I have an Innovate Dual Channel LM-2. So I bought the following two items to experiment with. I got a DB9 Male-Female RS232 Wireless Bluetooth Module, together with a Battery Box to power it. Theoreticaly I should be able to read AFR from both my Wideband Sensors, together with lots of  other engine data straight from my LM2 to the the Scan App. But I never got around to hooking it up and playing with it because I can record directly to an SD card with the LM2 and that's all I actually need. So I can't tell you if it works or not, but theoretically it should.
John
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/12/1ae9362671f010cb53cb9688981369a6.jpg)


UPDATE:. sorry, I just read that you don't have the DB9, or do you? So I'm not sure if my post is any help.. And maybe Paul is right about putting it in a separate thread ☺
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 12, 2015, 07:15:21 AM
Didn't I do a 'Howto' on logging for remapping?   ???  I can't remember... :D
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 12, 2015, 07:30:18 AM
Probably on the Ghetto. I don't think it came here.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bmc5733946 on May 13, 2015, 09:44:08 AM
I am having trouble resetting the TPS on a totally stock 750 Breva. I don't know if "engine off" means engine off key on or key off. I am quite sure that I shouldn't be seeing values 100.4 or 44.5. I also have no idea what I should be seeing for CO trim.

Please be kind I'm a noob.

Brian
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 13, 2015, 01:08:49 PM
750 Breva uses 15M-RC controller. Doesn't use electronic re-calibration.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bmc5733946 on May 13, 2015, 01:18:47 PM
UPDATE!

You fellas might not know it, but these Breva 750s will run pretty well with the TPS unplugged, but you won't be able to reset the TPS.

In my retirement I undertook to help out my old friend Motoguzziman who travels the states in summer and lives elsewhere for the winter. His bike started leaking oil while he was here last year but he was able to finish his time out here. I kept his bike for the winter to fix the oil leak and do a general service to be sure he was ready for this year's tour. I replaced the clutch and rear main seal. He has more than 60,000 miles on the bike most of it two-up with the most lovely Christine. The oil leak was from the crimped fitting on the back of the pan where the oil drains back from the breather system. The fitting was salvaged and a new style hose installed with proper clamps. I basically crabbed the frame and removed the gear box cleaned everything and reassembled. I only missed one little plug, I found the plug but couldn't remember where it went, today I found where it was supposed to be! Pete I think you are forgetting that the Breva 750s have no slots at the TPS and were the first (I think) to use the reset from software, anyway it is running fine now 3.10 on the TPS now. Thanks for replying.

Brian
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 13, 2015, 01:25:41 PM
It's 4.00AM and I've been awake for three hours. I'm probably not at my sharpest right now..... :D

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bmc5733946 on May 13, 2015, 02:26:07 PM
I thought it might be a little early or little late in the day for you. All good now! Get some sleep or?? !

Brian
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 13, 2015, 06:13:37 PM
if tps signal is faulty, ecu uses limp home mode. so it simulates a value based on rpm.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bmc5733946 on May 13, 2015, 08:52:07 PM
Thanks for that Paul. I'm afraid my aging brain will never get caught up with all this new fangled stuff and the older I get the harder it becomes. I am frequently overwhelmed with how well the new stuff works but I really don't understand why it works. I enjoy twisting wrenches but I don't enjoy the computer stuff even when I can make it work. I marvel at you fellas that it all makes sense to. I'll keep my pointed and carbed Mille GT as I know what to fix or adjust "most" of the time.
Thanks for keeping all this information flowing.

Brian
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Punch on May 13, 2015, 10:32:41 PM
Punch, this topic is about getting guzzidiag up and running, maybe open an own topic with questions about logging? 

I did  http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=76168.0

Very little aka close to zero interest.

I am also going to look at ScanM16 as an alternative to carrying a notebook.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on May 26, 2015, 05:41:08 PM
Okay, finally got some free time to change my Norge fuel map to the latest and greatest sent from Pete.  Reset the learning parameters, reset tps.  First, the bike was harder to start and when it did the idle was rough and would miss a beat every so often, the fumes were close to being overwhelming.  I then took it for a long ride, nice, smooth throttle response, but a little surging when at around 2500rpm in traffic(common around here).  At speed the bike just seemed to want to pull harder with less effort than the stock map.  My biggest complaint, and my only real one with the stock map is the snatchy throttle response, Pete's map seemed to help quite a bit with this.  After my first test run I hooked up Guzzidiag and tried to lower the C0 as the fumes were unbearable but this just caused an even rougher idle and the bike would stall.  Overall the map worked really well, but I went back to the stock map as it really isn't too bad, just that damn snatchy throttle!  Anyone know if turning off the Lamda sensors might help and if so, can this be done with Guzzidiag?
Thanks, Kris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on May 26, 2015, 05:49:59 PM
I don't know if the map version you got is the same as mine but while I do notice very minor snatchiness with it (not noticed with the stock map, go figure) I've kept running it, no fumes, smells or anything else like that.

With the stock map, the Norge was smooth up from idle, just felt like the rev wasn't as eager so I used more throttle to move things along. The fuel economy was good as well.

Maybe the stock maps changed between your model year and mine (2013 vs your?)

I should qualify that "snatchiness" is really a freer rev and so more attention to throttle and clutch coordination at very low speeds is needed. I attribute this not to the map itself but the very slight snatch from the driveline below about 2200 rpms which isn't really where the engine should be run anyway unless there is no other choice. Now, I don't really notice it at all and even 2500 rpms is really low even around town except for stops and things like that.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on May 26, 2015, 05:54:05 PM
I don't know if the map version you got is the same as mine but while I do notice very minor snatchiness with it (not noticed with the stock map, go figure) I've kept running it, no fumes, smells or anything else like that.

With the stock map, the Norge was smooth up from idle, just felt like the rev wasn't as eager so I used more throttle to move things along. The fuel economy was good as well.

Maybe the stock maps changed between your model year and mine (2013 vs your?)

2014, I was thinking this as well.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on May 26, 2015, 05:58:37 PM
I could send you the stock map I have. Who knows?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 26, 2015, 06:01:51 PM
Kris, are you CERTAIN that your valves are set, accurately, to 6 thou inlet and 8 thou exhaust? Are you CERTAIN that your throttle bodies are balanced correctly? When you uploaded the map did you.

a.)Reset the TPS.

b.)Reset the self learning parameters.

c.)Start with the CO trim at zero.

In every single case where there has been a problem with a 'Map' that I have encountered the problem has either been the tune and set up of the bike or one of the above listed features not being taken into account or performed correctly.

As I've said before a different map us not a 'Magic Bullet'. If there is an underlying problem with the tune and set-up of the bike re-mapping it won't fix that. The 8V is very, very sensitive to changes to tune and set up.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 26, 2015, 06:16:43 PM
the 8v norge had only one stock map as far as I know. map id is 3222NG01 CM227006 you can see that lift bottom in guzzidiag

Switching of lambda goes with tunerpro, look in youtube for a video of that made by pauldaytona. I think Beetle made an instruction too, he is good in that too.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on May 26, 2015, 06:23:43 PM
I think Kris said that he got the map from Pete, which I am assuming is a Beetle map from Mark.  If that's the case, I'm pretty sure the Lambdas are already off...

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 26, 2015, 06:30:06 PM
What map did you send him Pete?  I've only sent the very latest map to two peeps on this forum. As far as I know, the only other guy using it is in Australia.

It most definitely should not be running so rich at idle that it's causing fumes that bad. Something is wrong.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on May 26, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
Kris, are you CERTAIN that your valves are set, accurately, to 6 thou inlet and 8 thou exhaust? Are you CERTAIN that your throttle bodies are balanced correctly? When you uploaded the map did you.

a.)Reset the TPS.

b.)Reset the self learning parameters.

c.)Start with the CO trim at zero.

In every single case where there has been a problem with a 'Map' that I have encountered the problem has either been the tune and set up of the bike or one of the above listed features not being taken into account or performed correctly.

As I've said before a different map us not a 'Magic Bullet'. If there is an underlying problem with the tune and set-up of the bike re-mapping it won't fix that. The 8V is very, very sensitive to changes to tune and set up.

Pete

Yes to all of the above, I sync the throttle bodies while the bike is under load by taping my Twinmax to the tank and running at different rpm's, stop, adjust, re-check and adjust again until it's as close as humanly possible to perfect.  My first service is coming up(I know,it's taking me awhile to get there, too much work)!  I'll re-check and adjust as needed then and will try the map again.
Yes, I know there is no "magic bullet" fix, every bike has it's own personality, but I sure appreciate the efforts you guys are making!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 26, 2015, 06:40:03 PM
What map did you send him Pete?  I've only sent the very latest map to two peeps on this forum (nikwax & smdl). As far as I know, the only other guy using it is in Australia.

It most definitely should not be running so rich at idle that it's causing fumes that bad. Something is wrong.

Dunno off hand, I'll have to dig back through the archive which might be a bit difficult from WA!

Ping him the latest and see if it improves things but my guess is that the valves are out and/or the self learners aren't zeroed. Remember how badly my thing stank when the valves were 2 thou out! Smelt like it had a dead possum under the seat!

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on May 26, 2015, 06:40:56 PM
What map did you send him Pete?  I've only sent the very latest map to two peeps on this forum (nikwax & smdl). As far as I know, the only other guy using it is in Australia.

It most definitely should not be running so rich at idle that it's causing fumes that bad. Something is wrong.


This is the map <Norge1200-8V-FU2-7286.2015.05.01.bin>
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on May 26, 2015, 06:42:57 PM
What map did you send him Pete?  I've only sent the very latest map to two peeps on this forum (nikwax & smdl). As far as I know, the only other guy using it is in Australia.

It most definitely should not be running so rich at idle that it's causing fumes that bad. Something is wrong.

Hi, Mark.

Is the Norge 8V the same map as the Stelvio?  You sent me the Norge 2V map, and the Stelvio 8V map, both of which work well.  I think the Stelvio could still use some work at idle (as discussed before), and it feels little soft immediately off idle, but not much to complain about,  It's worlds better than the original map, and I don't notice strong fumes at idle.

If there is anything I can do to help further the refinement of the existing map, please let me know.

Thanks again for all your efforts on our behalf!

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 26, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
Sorry Shaun, I realised my mistake after I posted. I fixed it. There are two others on the forum with this map. No, the Stelvio maps are different.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 26, 2015, 06:54:17 PM
This is the map <Norge1200-8V-FU2-7286.2015.05.01.bin>

That's the latest.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: POP0404 on May 26, 2015, 07:07:33 PM
Probably about time I put my 2 cents worth, as I suspect my bike is the "other Norge in Australia".

I updated my 2011 Norge about 3 weeks ago with the map supplied by Pete and Mark. Before the changes the Norge was running rough, snatchy throttle, and a distinct hesitation through the revs.

I adjusted the valves to 6 and 8 thou, balanced the throttles, reset the TPS, reset the learning parameters, and set the CO trim. On first long run the idle was a little low and lumpy, Mark suggested resetting the C0 trim to 0. The bike now runs great. It pulls evenly through all revs, no snatchyness in the throttle, but is a little sensitive, less vibration through the revs, particularly around the 3000 RPM mark.

For me the new map is a great improvement over where my bike was running previously.

Both Mark and Pete were very helpful throughout the process.

POP0404
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 26, 2015, 07:18:24 PM
Yes to all of the above, I sync the throttle bodies while the bike is under load by taping my Twinmax to the tank and running at different rpm's, stop, adjust, re-check and adjust again until it's as close as humanly possible to perfect.  My first service is coming up(I know,it's taking me awhile to get there, too much work)!  I'll re-check and adjust as needed then and will try the map again.
Yes, I know there is no "magic bullet" fix, every bike has it's own personality, but I sure appreciate the efforts you guys are making!

So have the valve clearances ever been checked? If not chances are they will all be wide and all over the place which will certainly add to the rich condition if that is what it is. Once the Lamda is off as it is in Mark's maps then the ECU will no longer trim around discrepancies. Even tiny changes to valve clearance make significant differences to valve lift and duration which in turn effect how much air the engine will pump. Since fuel delivery depends on the air quantity at any given throttle angle matching what the ECU assumes is being passed at that point if the clearances are too large less air will be being pumped so the AFR will drop making the mixture overly rich.

More so than any other engine I've worked with the Guzzi 8V is incredibly sensitive to this. While I'm not certain why it is so critical I'm convinced it is another aspect that can be attributed to the combustion chamber shape and side draught head design which makes issues like charge transition much more noticeable and explains why messing about with both exhausts and airboxes requires considerably more thought and attention to detail than many give it. It's the reason, or one of the major ones, why Mark has so many Griso maps, many tailored to individual pipe arrangements and why we strongly advise against screwing with the airbox and air filter. With the exception of flat tappet 1200 Sports and I think the 8V Norge all the 8V 1200's use the same cam profiles, (From memory. There may be one other exception but I'm pretty certain it's only those two.) the engines are all the same, but differences to airboxes and most importantly exhausts, even minor ones, can have quite a radical effect on how the engine pumps and performs.

For these reasons it is vital that EVERYTHING be spot on if you want to use an open loop map, even the factory one with the lamda off, or it's going to run like a munter.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on May 26, 2015, 07:39:58 PM
Thanks Pete for all of your very informative responses.  Yes, the valves have been checked and will be checked again soon along with another throttle body sync.
Two of the valves(intake) were a bit loose so I tightened them to the correct spec, otherwise the rest were in good order. 
After I service the bike I'll give the map another try, maybe it just needed a little more run in time.
Overall, the bike runs well except for the snatchy throttle and I think some or all of that may be attributed to having quite a bit of play in the driveline, however your map did seem to help with this.
I'm looking forward to giving it another go!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 26, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
With the throttle snatchiness? Have you taken as much free play out of the throttle cables as possible with out causing the engine to race when you turn the bars from lock to lock.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on May 26, 2015, 08:23:52 PM
Yes, there is no play in the throttle cables at all.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on May 26, 2015, 08:24:57 PM
Sorry Shaun, I realised my mistake after I posted. I fixed it. There are two others on the forum with this map. No, the Stelvio maps are different.

No problem at all!  Just wanted to be sure I hadn't misunderstood.

Thanks, Mark.

Shaun
Title: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on May 27, 2015, 02:16:13 AM
.....but differences to airboxes and most importantly exhausts, even minor ones, can have quite a radical effect on how the engine pumps and performs.

This is very true! Even small changes make a difference. I recently made up a new DB Killer for the Zard exhaust on my Stelvio (the original was a bit too quiet for me, and completely without isn't nice). Even though you wouldn't think the change was so significant, it took me a day of adjusting to get the map sweet again. So I now have three different maps for various exhaust configurations.

On the right is the original (slightly cut down), and on the left is my fabricated one.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/27/6b3ca36f10478d35b83861c1fd9b95e4.jpg)

John
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: BigBlock on May 27, 2015, 03:48:19 PM
Hey Beetle, Pete. What is the difference between Norge 1200-8V FU2-6963.2014.08.21 and the Norge1200-8V-FU2-7286.2015.05.01 maps.  I'm running the 6963 map. The bike seams to run fine except the odd morning start (stumbles a bit, then idles fine), nothing I'm worried about.  I haven't been keeping up with the latest as you can see.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 27, 2015, 06:52:55 PM
BB,

Different warm-up table, different pressure-air temp table, different fuel-engine temp table, modifed rev-limit-input-gear table.

Starts better warm and cold. Fuels better. You can fang it to redline in all gears accept 1st (8000 rpm limit).
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on May 27, 2015, 08:02:18 PM
This is very true! Even small changes make a difference. I recently made up a new DB Killer for the Zard exhaust on my Stelvio (the original was a bit too quiet for me, and completely without isn't nice).

 ;D Strangely enough, even though I know people won't believe me, I don't just pull these ideas out of my arse! They are based on factual knowledge and years of research. The stuff Mark has discovered while developing maps is fascinating and has given us an even better insight as to how things work.

Do I, or anyone else know or understand everything about how things work? No of course not. But at least our approach is scientific rather than just bleating the accepted wisdom that all you have to do with a modern engine is throw more fuel and air at it because it's been *Strangled* by those nasty men in gubmint,

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on May 28, 2015, 09:55:01 AM
Hey Beetle, Pete. What is the difference between Norge 1200-8V FU2-6963.2014.08.21 and the Norge1200-8V-FU2-7286.2015.05.01 maps.  I'm running the 6963 map. The bike seams to run fine except the odd morning start (stumbles a bit, then idles fine), nothing I'm worried about.  I haven't been keeping up with the latest as you can see.

The answer is Norge 1200-8V-FU2-3230.0009.68.0   ;)

Sorry, not had coffee yet.

Same boat here but mine is slightly later than yours but things run ok. Just an very once in a while a stumble at idle that makes me want to blip the throttle but it evens out. Quite rare so I didn't even pay attention to it until you mentioned yours.

Finally got a Bluetooth dongle for Guzzidiag so I can run the output to my Android tablet mounted up front and maybe start logging.

I'm running Norge1200-8V-FU2-5D14.2014.09.14
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: BigBlock on May 28, 2015, 12:40:09 PM
Beetle, PM'd you
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 28, 2015, 05:28:46 PM
I'll send the latest map to all the Norge owners I have email addresses for. I was waiting for more feedback, but the cat is out of the bag now.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on May 29, 2015, 01:04:31 AM
Thanks, Mark, for all your hard work!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: mtiberio on June 03, 2015, 01:53:00 PM
is there a place where folks swap maps? was looking for a map for my CalVin, stock airbox, stock mufflers, harpers H pipe.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 03, 2015, 03:49:10 PM
is there a place where folks swap maps? was looking for a map for my CalVin, stock airbox, stock mufflers, harpers H pipe.

We have no such place. We send files that we have on request.
What is not good with the calvin now in it's running?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Kiwi Dave on June 03, 2015, 05:09:46 PM
PM sent.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: lazlokovacs on June 04, 2015, 05:05:57 AM
is there a place where folks swap maps? was looking for a map for my CalVin, stock airbox, stock mufflers, harpers H pipe.


I've been developing a map that seems to be a great improvement over stock for the calvin... pm me and I'll send it to you.

(already sent it to Kiwi Dave, who said he liked it, so maybe he's already sharing it with you?)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 04, 2015, 07:47:33 AM
Modified CO trim adjustment.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: mtiberio on June 04, 2015, 08:25:53 AM

I've been developing a map that seems to be a great improvement over stock for the calvin... pm me and I'll send it to you.

(already sent it to Kiwi Dave, who said he liked it, so maybe he's already sharing it with you?)

he sent: Av11sportecumildert imingchangesWITHCLE MBASTIDAtemperature adjustmentchangedLO WFUELLINGBACKTOSTOC KAND4KRICHENEDUPoff setmapfromcalicopie d.bin

that it?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: lazlokovacs on June 04, 2015, 12:50:26 PM
he sent: Av11sportecumildert imingchangesWITHCLE MBASTIDAtemperature adjustmentchangedLO WFUELLINGBACKTOSTOC KAND4KRICHENEDUPoff setmapfromcalicopie d.bin

that it?

yes it is....

though I have a slightly updated one since then as well... I'd be pleased to know how you get on with it should you choose to try it...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 04, 2015, 04:31:59 PM
Av11sportecumildertimingchangesWITHCLEMBASTIDAtemperatureadjustmentchangedLOWFUELLINGBACKTOSTOCKAND4KRICHENEDUPoffsetmapfromcalicopied.bin


Crikey, that's a mouthful!   :laugh:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: lenz9753 on June 09, 2015, 06:44:10 AM
Hey Beetle - your initial recommendation of the Lonelec cable kit for the job is still the most reliable ? My 2010 Griso 8V with Termi muffler urgently needs the fuelling cleaned up. If you have a map that is suitable I would be very grateful.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: NMPete on June 09, 2015, 12:49:38 PM
Hi - I just got a 98 MG Centauro and it is running "poorly".  I would like to do the GuzziDiag thing.  It has a standard 3 pin type connector (same as my friend's V11) at the ECU and the GuzziDiag lists the V10 Centauro.
However, it has an M16 ECU (smaller than the 8 and bigger than the 15).

Will the procedure and listed connectors, etc outlined for the M15 work for the M16?

Thanks
NMPete  :azn:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 09, 2015, 01:12:31 PM
Hi - I just got a 98 MG Centauro and it is running "poorly".  I would like to do the GuzziDiag thing.  It has a standard 3 pin type connector (same as my friend's V11) at the ECU and the GuzziDiag lists the V10 Centauro.
However, it has an M16 ECU (smaller than the 8 and bigger than the 15).

Will the procedure and listed connectors, etc outlined for the M15 work for the M16?

Thanks
NMPete  :azn:

 Yes, you only can't change much. No mapping possible. But you can read all values
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on June 09, 2015, 01:38:20 PM
Hi - I just got a 98 MG Centauro and it is running "poorly".  I would like to do the GuzziDiag thing.  It has a standard 3 pin type connector (same as my friend's V11) at the ECU and the GuzziDiag lists the V10 Centauro.
However, it has an M16 ECU (smaller than the 8 and bigger than the 15).

Will the procedure and listed connectors, etc outlined for the M15 work for the M16?

It will be useable for diagnostics, and TPS setup. To remap it, you need a rom burner.

I have a rom burner and a few chips if you are serious about a remap.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on June 09, 2015, 04:36:27 PM
Hey Beetle - your initial recommendation of the Lonelec cable kit for the job is still the most reliable ? My 2010 Griso 8V with Termi muffler urgently needs the fuelling cleaned up. If you have a map that is suitable I would be very grateful.

I think Mark is out of town at the moment? PM me your email and I can send you a map.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 09, 2015, 04:39:29 PM
Lonelec for the cables? Yes. You can get them elsewhere, but they at least guarantee them to work from Lonelec.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: lenz9753 on June 09, 2015, 07:49:42 PM
Thanks Beetle - the process begins - first acquire the "tools"
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: lenz9753 on June 09, 2015, 08:28:10 PM
I think Mark is out of town at the moment? PM me your email and I can send you a map.

Pete

Thanks Pete - PM sent
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: stinga on June 16, 2015, 06:01:46 AM
G'day all.
Wanting to reset my TPS so Iev downloaded all the correct 3 programs for my bike type and just waiting for the cable to turn up.
My bike is a 2010 1200 Sport 8V and when I go through the set up I cant find an option for the 1200 Sport 8V so my question is,

Do I use the 1200 Sport or the 1200 Griso 8V option.
Cheers
Stinga
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on June 16, 2015, 06:31:15 AM
For resetting the TPS you can use any of the 8V iterations I believe. Paul or Mark will confirm.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 16, 2015, 09:39:54 AM
For resetting the TPS you can use any of the 8V iterations I believe. Paul or Mark will confirm.

Pete

 correct, any 5am will do, so use 1200 sport 2v.  In diag no difference, mightbe the 2 lambda bikes have more lambda options. And the bellagio is also diferent
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 20, 2015, 12:05:26 AM
Updated Tutorial when using the latest release of GuzziDiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: T in NC on July 06, 2015, 09:55:00 AM
Sorry to be asking, I know it has been covered before but I can't seem to find the info I'm looking for. What cables do I need to buy and from where for a 2002 Special Sport?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 06, 2015, 02:24:54 PM
Sorry to be asking, I know it has been covered before but I can't seem to find the info I'm looking for. What cables do I need to buy and from where for a 2002 Special Sport?
It's easy, the first post in this topic has a link to cables
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rfguy on July 07, 2015, 10:54:05 AM
Hello Paul and Beetle,

Just wanted to ask how and/or if any development is coming along for the 7SM (maybe all the new 1400's are using this ECU?). Sure would like to be able to tweak low and mid range mixture conveniently. With a somewhat free-er flowing exhaust on my 2014 Cali 1400, and the impending 100+F temps of a typical Central Texas summer almost here, it would be really nice to be able to have a fatter mixture on the bottom for a few months. Everything needed here to do logging for whoever can do something with the data....

I also don't seem to see an official support forum for GuzziDiag. I assume Griso Ghetto is serving that purpose for us English speaking types?

Jim
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 07, 2015, 04:51:48 PM
The 7SM and MUIG3 ECU's are a work in progress. Stay tuned.

As far as support for GuzziDiag, you can get it here if you need it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: T in NC on July 07, 2015, 07:24:02 PM
It's easy, the first post in this topic has a link to cables
Thanks Paul, I had remembered others getting them from eBay and Amazon and I thought it had to do with shipping problems or cost, but it's actually  cheep from your link. :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 12, 2015, 12:33:41 PM
Ok.....have the cables and program. Been avoiding doing any mods to fueling as I didn't buy into it fully but out of options to fix an annoying issue.  Lean surge on steady throttle and popping.

Totally stock 2012 Stelvio with 43k km. Never had this issue before but just started to get worse. Not to the point of I won't ride just to the point that it is annoying and can't seem to find the cause.  Have checked and double checked syncing the Tbs, valves adjusted, no air or exhaust leaks tbs are clean. It has been hot and humid here the last little bit and that is when it is worse. This is my 3rd summer with it and don't remember it being like this so does not sound heat related but who knows at this point.

Without reading the whole thread, thinking of turning off the lambdas. Is there an official map for the Stelvio that everyone has been using. I can read the tutorials and figure out how to do it I just don't want to have to experiment with different maps.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 12, 2015, 12:49:00 PM
Mark (Beetle) has a great map for the Stelvio, as do a few others.  All of Mark's maps have the Lambdas disabled, and the improvements are clear!

The only thing that worries me about what you describe is that this has not been a consistent issues.  However, I don't think changing out the make can hurt, and it is quick/easy to do.

Cheers,
Shaun

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 12, 2015, 12:54:26 PM
Ok.....have the cables and program. Been avoiding doing any mods to fueling as I didn't buy into it fully but out of options to fix an annoying issue.  Lean surge on steady throttle and popping.

Totally stock 2012 Stelvio with 43k km. Never had this issue before but just started to get worse. Not to the point of I won't ride just to the point that it is annoying and can't seem to find the cause.  Have checked and double checked syncing the Tbs, valves adjusted, no air or exhaust leaks tbs are clean. It has been hot and humid here the last little bit and that is when it is worse. This is my 3rd summer with it and don't remember it being like this so does not sound heat related but who knows at this point.

Without reading the whole thread, thinking of turning off the lambdas. Is there an official map for the Stelvio that everyone has been using. I can read the tutorials and figure out how to do it I just don't want to have to experiment with different maps.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Roller or flat tappet?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 12, 2015, 01:44:05 PM
Ok.....have the cables and program. Been avoiding doing any mods to fueling as I didn't buy into it fully but out of options to fix an annoying issue.  Lean surge on steady throttle and popping.

Totally stock 2012 Stelvio with 43k km. Never had this issue before but just started to get worse. Not to the point of I won't ride just to the point that it is annoying and can't seem to find the cause.  Have checked and double checked syncing the Tbs, valves adjusted, no air or exhaust leaks tbs are clean. It has been hot and humid here the last little bit and that is when it is worse. This is my 3rd summer with it and don't remember it being like this so does not sound heat related but who knows at this point.

Without reading the whole thread, thinking of turning off the lambdas. Is there an official map for the Stelvio that everyone has been using. I can read the tutorials and figure out how to do it I just don't want to have to experiment with different maps.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 what value doe the tps show in guzzidiag?
Tried reset autolearning values?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 12, 2015, 02:59:48 PM
Roller or flat tappet?

Flat tappet.

Paul,  Haven't hooked up guzzidiag yet. Have been using centurion and tps resets to 4.7,4.7. Never moves to much from those values 

Going to gather my cables and give guzzidiag a whirl and see what it says.  Will try the autolearn reset. Think I saw that option in centurion but never actually tried it. Will do it when I get diag up and running.

Funny thing is after I wrote the original post I continued on the ride I was on and the temperature dropped about 5c as I got closer to the lake and the surging stopped and popping went back to normal. This must be temp related but never noticed it before.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 12, 2015, 03:35:15 PM
Resetting the trims may help, but it will eventually trim back to the same point. Is this a hotter summer for you than the previous two? The change to better after a 5 degree ambient temp drop is telling. The pressure-air-temp correction tables have quite a steep slope in the stock maps.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 12, 2015, 03:51:46 PM
Typical summer. This no I am just paying more attention to it now especially the popping. Will try the reset and see what happens. I never had the need to touch the mapping so would rather not if I didn't need to but was at a loss as to why this was happening. If it is temp related then I can live with that explanation.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 12, 2015, 04:22:01 PM
Do you do the servicing? If so have the valve clearances changed recently? I suggest going in and re-checking them. If they are not where you set them it may of lunched it's cams.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 12, 2015, 04:47:58 PM
No need to change the map if it's been working for you. You can reset the trims by pulling the main fuses or disconnecting the battery for 30 seconds.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 12, 2015, 05:13:26 PM
No need to change the map if it's been working for you. You can reset the trims by pulling the main fuses or disconnecting the battery for 30 seconds.

Got Guzzidiag up and running.  Should have done that a long time ago.  Very slick boys.......lot easier than centurion.

TPS reads 4.6.  Reset the autolearn and also disconnected the battery for a couple of minutes for safe measures.  Will go out for a ride later and report.

Pete, I do all my own maintenance.  Had set the clearances a couple of months ago.  This morning I started from scratch and checked them again and they were the same. I have always set mine at a 6 and 8 even though they are flat tappets. At the same time I reset the tps and sync'd the TB just to eliminate any potential. Also ran some seafoam spray through the TB so see if there were any exhaust leaks (the white smoke is a good tracer for leaks).  Everything was good.    I too thought perhaps the cams were munched since my buddy just had his converted to rollers on his 09, but everything seems fine and it sounds fine.   
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 12, 2015, 05:30:34 PM
If the clearances haven't changed it should be fine. The reason I am suspicious is that usually if the way they run changes there is a mechanical rather than an electronic cause.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 12, 2015, 05:43:42 PM
If the clearances haven't changed it should be fine. The reason I am suspicious is that usually if the way they run changes there is a mechanical rather than an electronic cause.

Pete

Agreed.....that was my concern also, but everything sounded and looked fine.

One thing I did do was set my sync at a higher engine temp.  I usually set it up around 140F, but when I came back yesterday after a ride and checked the balance at true engine temp (didn't measure it, but it was hot), it was off by +2 to +3 grads on my carbmate.  At a resolution of 0.5, that is 1 to 1.5 cm hg off.  Re did the sync at 190F.  Seems to help a little.  Checked the balance after my ride today and it was only off by .5 cm hg.   

Is there a magic number that you have found for engine temp for syncing.  (sorry, post is going a little off topic.....)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 12, 2015, 08:12:24 PM
Well.....took it for a ride and problem is still there.  Surging around 3200 to 3400 in all gears.  Actually seems worse, but that could just be me as I am really paying attention to it now.  Never had it before, but weirder things have happened on this bike.  Also just noticed I pinched the valve cover gasket when I put it back on today.  Have never done that in 3 years on the bike and have had that cover off numerous times.  Think it is just my frustration setting in and not paying attention.  :violent1:

Once it get the oil off the bike, willing to try a new map.  Hear wonders on the change....maybe that is all I, and my bike need...a little change.  Up to any suggestions on how to make this problem go away.  Will try and play with Guzzidiag and the reader tomorrow and get a copy of the map.  Want to keep this relatively easy, lambdas off and richen it up a little to hopefully get ride of the surge (assuming that is what it is). Not looking for any major performance enhancements.  Anyone have a "ready to go" map for a 2012 Stelvio with all stock components.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 12, 2015, 10:14:37 PM
Is Guzzidiag showing any errors? Also try opening the throttle with the engine off and watching the TPS value. Does it suddenly jump or stop registering at about the throttle opening where the 'Surging' occurs? Then check that things like the engine temperature readings are reasonably accurate. Have a look at the lambda readings and see if there is anything odd happening there.

What concerns me is that a problem has started and seems to be getting worse but it was working fine before with the current map. My feelings that remapping will not have any benefit because there is an underlying problem.

Do you have to goose the throttle to keep it running from cold and when it warms up is the idle low or erratic?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 13, 2015, 06:03:23 AM
Is Guzzidiag showing any errors? Also try opening the throttle with the engine off and watching the TPS value. Does it suddenly jump or stop registering at about the throttle opening where the 'Surging' occurs? Then check that things like the engine temperature readings are reasonably accurate. Have a look at the lambda readings and see if there is anything odd happening there.

What concerns me is that a problem has started and seems to be getting worse but it was working fine before with the current map. My feelings that remapping will not have any benefit because there is an underlying problem.

Do you have to goose the throttle to keep it running from cold and when it warms up is the idle low or erratic?

Pete

No errors on guzzidiag, centurion or the dash. Tps goes from 4.6 to 85 with no issue and the bike idles fine @1200 +\- 20. When I went for my ride yesterday I even opened the fuel cap to eliminate e a vacuum possibility. No go. Pulled both plugs and they look fine. Nice and tan with nothing obvious. I also have ngk caps and the coil plugs are zip tied in. Pulled the injectors and they "look" fine but that is pretty much useless. If it was that or the fuel filter you would think it would show up elsewhere. Seems to be tied to a partial throttle opening. It is not a bucking bronco kind of surge. Just a subtle hesitation. If anything it will make u sea sick. Like I said before more of an annoyance.

For whatever reason everything seems to point to fueling so might as well turn the lambdas off and see what happens. Any ideas on a start point for the CO reading. I shouldn't need a new map but I am not an expert in this. Need some advise on where to go at this point.

 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 13, 2015, 06:31:08 AM
What do the temperature sensor readings look like in GuzziDiag? With a cold engine, the engine temp should not be more than a few degrees different than ambient. Same with air temp.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 13, 2015, 10:53:14 AM
What do the temperature sensor readings look like in GuzziDiag? With a cold engine, the engine temp should not be more than a few degrees different than ambient. Same with air temp.
From cold, air temperature, engine temperature and ambient temperature all read the same (25C) as per guzzidiag.

Posted a video of the guzzidiag readout.  Let the bike warm up to 60C and then captured the following data. First bit is at idle, and then I rev'd it to +/- 3000 rpm and tried my best to hold it there.  Shows the lambda mv readings.  Not really sure what normal is.  They do jump around but for the most part, L1 and L2 are pretty much in sync.  Comments welcome on anything that does not look rights.  If I need to run it again with different parameters please let me know.  Everything seemed to run find at 3000 rpm with not apparent hesitations. 

I also made a copy of the stock map.  Unless we find something out of the ordinary, would appreciate some guidance on getting the Lambda probes disconnected and setting the CO.  At it minimum it will remove them from the equation.

https://youtu.be/ln2H48p4ef8
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: toma nova on July 13, 2015, 11:13:08 AM

For whatever reason everything seems to point to fueling so might as well turn the lambdas off and see what happens. Any ideas on a start point for the CO reading. I shouldn't need a new map but I am not an expert in this. Need some advise on where to go at this point.


I'm running Beetle's updated map with lambdas off and my CO is +10 to achieve a smooth idle.  I still have some surging 3500-3800 rpms so I mostly just keep the revs above that. Not great for MPGs, but a smoother ride.  I only have 3k miles and need to check valves and TBs but I expect the engine to continue smoothing out as it gets more miles.

I also checked the throttle cables but they were fine.  FYI, I bought my bike from MPH so assume it was correctly set up.

One thing I have noticed is that surging is worst on bumpy roads.  TX uses mostly concrete (as opposed to asphalt) and the seams and construction undulations make it harder to keep a steady throttle hand.  Not an issue if I'm accelerating or braking, but tough to hold a steady speed.  I'm not sure if suspension settings could help but that's an area I need to get into in any case.

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 13, 2015, 11:20:03 AM
One thing I have noticed is that surging is worst on bumpy roads.  TX uses mostly concrete (as opposed to asphalt) and the seams and construction undulations make it harder to keep a steady throttle hand.  Not an issue if I'm accelerating or braking, but tough to hold a steady speed.  I'm not sure if suspension settings could help but that's an area I need to get into in any case.

Tom

Tom, funny you should say that.  That thought did cross my mine as a possible cause.  I did increase  my pre-load on the front forks a bit a while back.  Who knows, it may be as simple as that.  I have seen weirder things happen.  I will keep an eye on it.

Thanks,

Joe
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on July 13, 2015, 11:48:00 AM
I've noticed the difficulty in maintaining smooth throttle over bumps.  It's just that sensitive. 

Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 13, 2015, 04:15:15 PM
Update.....uploaded stock map with the lambda probes removed.  Set the CO at +1 for no reason other than the idle sounded a "little" better than zero but not a lot. 

Idle is now smooth as butter and there is absolutely no popping on decel.  That alone was worth doing if for as it was driving me absolutely crazy looking for exhaust leaks that were not there.  This has made me a very happy man.

One thing I did notice was as the bike got hotter when I was adjusting the CO levels, I looked at the data screen and one of the probes was registering a mV reading.  It would move between 4 and 9 mv which I am assuming is some transient voltage. The other one was a solid zero.  Will the ECU pick up this value or is it now blind to all lambda readings. 

As for the surging, it is much better but still there at 3000 RPM.  Sounds like this is a norm for the stock map, but for the life of me I can't figure out why it never bugged me before.  I think it is still weather related as it was again a hot and humid day.  I do have to admit that I have been riding more in the heat this year then I have in years past so may just be noticing it more. Will keep looking for something obvious but am happy with the progress we have made thus far.  Perhaps some day I may try modifying the map or trying one that was developed on the forum.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Joe
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 15, 2015, 12:42:25 PM
PROBLEM: The IAW5xWriter_V0.21 for Mac OS cannot "see" the .bin file I would like to upload to my Norge's ECU.

I have downloaded the latest reader, writer, and Guzzi Diag programs for the Mac OS for my ECU (5AM), and I have successfully downloaded and saved the stock map using the reader program. However, the writer program cannot "see" and use the .bin file even though I have navigated to its location within the writer program. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 15, 2015, 03:23:41 PM
This seems to be a recurring issue with Mac users. Check the file is actually where you think you put it with a file manager. They seem to end up in the Stygian depths of the desktop. I kid you not.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 15, 2015, 03:29:00 PM
^ Thanks. I will try moving the file to a new location tonight using the Mac OS Finder and then try navigating to its new location with the writer program.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 15, 2015, 03:41:11 PM




  Will the ECU pick up this value or is it now blind to all lambda readings. 

As for the surging, it is much better but still there at 3000 RPM.



Joe, when lambda is switched off in the map, the signals are still there, the ECU simply ignores them.

With regard to the surging, did you reset the trims? You will need to.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 15, 2015, 04:39:51 PM

Joe, when lambda is switched off in the map, the signals are still there, the ECU simply ignores them.

With regard to the surging, did you reset the trims? You will need to.

The lambda mV readings all said zero when I started the bike.  It was not until the bike became hot (ie. around 90C) that one of the probes was showing some voltage.  As long as the ECU ignores it is is fine, but was strange that it just started up.  It was low reading around 4 to 9  mV.  I chocked it up to transient voltage somewhere.

If you mean did I do the autolearning reset with guzzidiag I did and then the CO trim to +1. It is just a matter of clicking the reset correct?  It did not give me any errors when I did that so I assume it took.   Going to take it out for another ride tonight.  Replaced the spark plugs as a counter measure just in case there was an issue. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 15, 2015, 10:42:21 PM
No luck. My new MacBook has failed me. The writer program cannot locate either my stock map, which I downloaded and saved with the reader program, or the new map Mark sent to me.

I guess I'll need to try an old MacBook that I have stashed away somewhere or [shudder] borrow a PC

UPDATE: No luck with my old MacBook either. No Guzzi Diag fiddling for me.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 16, 2015, 06:20:41 AM
No luck. My new MacBook has failed me. The writer program cannot locate either my stock map, which I downloaded and saved with the reader program, or the new map Mark sent to me.

I guess I'll need to try an old MacBook that I have stashed away somewhere or [shudder] borrow a PC�

UPDATE: No luck with my old MacBook either. No Guzzi Diag fiddling for me.

and you have the map with .bin extension, sitting in the same place where the reader and writer program are?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 16, 2015, 10:38:24 AM
^ Yep. The reader program ran just fine and was able to read and download my stock map. (It took about 15 minutes the second time; the first time, it halted mid-way through when I clicked on another program and sent the reader program to the background.) The writer program launches just fine, but it cannot "see" either .bin file, not even the one the reader program created. Perhaps the latest version of the Mac writer program has a glitch in it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 16, 2015, 11:22:19 AM
^ Yep. The reader program ran just fine and was able to read and download my stock map. (It took about 15 minutes the second time; the first time, it halted mid-way through when I clicked on another program and sent the reader program to the background.) The writer program launches just fine, but it cannot "see" either .bin file, not even the one the reader program created. Perhaps the latest version of the Mac writer program has a glitch in it.
how many kb is the file size? And you didn't have the wrong writer? 5x reader belangs to 5x writer. 15x to 15x
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 16, 2015, 11:57:50 AM
how many kb is the file size? And you didn't have the wrong writer? 5x reader belangs to 5x writer. 15x to 15x

Mark's file is 328 kb. The write that I have is IAW5xWriter_V0.21. The link is toward the bottom of this page: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/ (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/). Perhaps I have the wrong one.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 16, 2015, 04:42:58 PM
Nope, that is the right one. A Mac user on the Griso forum had a similar problem. I'll see if I can find the post.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 16, 2015, 07:46:30 PM
^ Thanks, Mark. I'll look, too.

From the Griso forum (unfortunately, I cannot see the linked file not being a forum member):

It seems that the issue is that Apple introduced their own driver with Mavericks and the two (FTDI and Mavericks versions) dont get on. Here is a link to a page that has a neat litlle program that disables the Mavericks version and allows Guzzidiag and its associated programs to work as design. The program features a real simple button to disable then enable.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

NOTE: LEAVE THE PROGRAM RUNNING WHILST USING GUZZIDIAG. I found that the Mavericks driver reasserted itself if you just disabled it then closed the disabling program. I have used the reader, writer and Guzzidiag itself this morning and all seem to work under OSX 10.9.3
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 16, 2015, 09:42:33 PM
Any known issues of the Cat Converter in the exhaust being affected by turning the lambda probes off.  Also, for those with a stock setup on a 2012+ Stelvio, what has been the normal change in mileage if any from just turning the probes off.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 16, 2015, 10:06:16 PM
The link:

http://www.enttec.com/support-center/kb/article/108-OS_X_Mavericks_%2810.9%29_-_IMPORTANT
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 16, 2015, 11:48:53 PM
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yukonica on July 18, 2015, 08:31:49 PM
Going to post this in this thread as the place to cover off the question. (Talking 2013 V7 Special here) Roughly 4000 km ago I swapped out a pair of Mistral shorties back to the OEM Lafranconi pipes. At the same time I power-cycled the bike's electronics to reset the ECU to original mapping. There were bumps and hiccups as I was warned to expect while the bike adjusted to it's new/original command system. Until today I thought the 'reset' was on form. But it rained really hard and the bike did not like it one bit.
Rolling on throttle from 4000 in 5th caused it to 'over fuel?' and drop contact with one cylinder.... stuuttt.. stutt.. stutter.  Normally easing off would resolve the problem but today I had to drop two gears to get the machine to breathe again. I had a similar problem with my carburetor aspirated Moto Morini but it had an air-filter sticking straight into the rain. I expected problems.
.... The question is: are ECU susceptible to high humidity situations? Do I just knock it off as 'conditions' or is there something I should be doing?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 18, 2015, 09:02:27 PM
I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)


No no no no no! Please don't!

I'm no Mac user, but it isn't some sort of OS setting that hides *.bin files, or 'non-standard' files?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on July 18, 2015, 09:35:35 PM

No no no no no! Please don't!

I'm no Mac user, but it isn't some sort of OS setting that hides *.bin files, or 'non-standard' files?

Ah! That's a thought. I'll check that. Thanks!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on July 18, 2015, 10:23:28 PM
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)

Please, please don't do this! The last person I saw who tried this needed a $7,500 rebuild because of the horrible bits of shit! They can, and often do, promote gross overfuelling at certain speeds and throttle openings and from then on its only a matter of time.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 19, 2015, 03:25:54 AM
Ah! That's a thought. I'll check that. Thanks!

 the first place where the reader ansd writer look when the file browser window is opend, is the location where the program itself is. place the maps there.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 19, 2015, 08:07:38 AM
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)

If u are having that much trouble with the Mac, for a little more than the price of the foolers why not just pick up the cheapest pc notebook you can find that will run the program and call it a day. This way when you drop it in the garage when programming the bike you won't swear as much. Just a thought.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bill Hagan on July 19, 2015, 09:11:57 AM
If u are having that much trouble with the Mac, for a little more than the price of the foolers why not just pick up the cheapest pc notebook you can find that will run the program and call it a day. This way when you drop it in the garage when programming the bike you won't swear as much. Just a thought.


Actually, I've been -- notwithstanding my four-year near-flaw-free experience with fruit  :laugh: -- thinking about doing just that. 

Some amazingly inexpensive options out there and it'd be my Moto Grappa laptop, used almost only for shop stuff.

Bill

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on July 19, 2015, 11:14:39 AM
I have now corrected my speedometer to read the correct speed using the speedo corrector. Any idea if there is (or will be coming) a way to correct the fuel mileage readout that is very optimistically low.

Also I have a replacement dash for my Stelvio that I got under warranty since the original one had some fog on the inside. I have been hesitant in putting it on dice the mileage will be reset to zero. Have not found anyone who can correct it since it resides in the dash and not the ecu. Any slick ways to download the mileage to the ecu and then copy it back. Would be nice to just input the new mileage but pretty sure there are some legal implications of doing that independent from a dealer.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on July 19, 2015, 01:57:48 PM
Best thing going for GuzziDiag to avoid the hassles on incompatible hardware (MACor PC) is to get a refurb Panasonic CF-19. They are cheap, about $150 and are Toughbooks so they are about as rugged a thing as you can get.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sys/5099523681.html

The screens swivel 180 degrees too. These things can be dropped, sat on, run over and they will continue to work. Not the fastest laptops but the most rugged and they will work every time you fire them up.

No case needed, the shell is magnesium and everything is shock mounted. Not very big either.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on July 19, 2015, 01:57:51 PM
I have now corrected my speedometer to read the correct speed using the speedo corrector. Any idea if there is (or will be coming) a way to correct the fuel mileage readout that is very optimistically low.

Also I have a replacement dash for my Stelvio that I got under warranty since the original one had some fog on the inside. I have been hesitant in putting it on dice the mileage will be reset to zero. Have not found anyone who can correct it since it resides in the dash and not the ecu. Any slick ways to download the mileage to the ecu and then copy it back. Would be nice to just input the new mileage but pretty sure there are some legal implications of doing that independent from a dealer.

No milage isn't adjustable as far as I know. Who cares?

For the dash miles, can be done.
It's just putting a pulse to the speedo or abs sensor input, so that it reeeds max speed. Battery on the tender, and just wait.
I had a new dash and did it thath way, it's just stopping at the right time. It will take some time, you can do the math.

The signal can be made by a tiny program on the guzzidiag download page, then running that on the laptop, and connecting the speaker out to the bike sensor input. I put a small transformer in beween to seperate.
 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: mtiberio on July 26, 2015, 08:25:29 PM
Got the diag stuff running on an old samsung nc10 atom netbook with debian. Had to install the setserial package (maybe not). Did have to run the programs as root (administrator).

Many thanks to those responsible...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on August 04, 2015, 02:50:02 PM
Can someone post a link to the Correct Bluetooth reader for android app. Want to make sure I order the right one. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Kiwi Dave on August 04, 2015, 06:14:39 PM
Can someone post a link to the Correct Bluetooth reader for android app. Want to make sure I order the right one.

I'm curious about the android app.  Which one are you referring to?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on August 04, 2015, 08:20:29 PM
ScanM5X

corrected.

In Google Playstore
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Idontwantapickle on August 04, 2015, 09:28:29 PM
I have now corrected my speedometer to read the correct speed using the speedo corrector. Any idea if there is (or will be coming) a way to correct the fuel mileage readout that is very optimistically low.

Also I have a replacement dash for my Stelvio that I got under warranty since the original one had some fog on the inside. I have been hesitant in putting it on dice the mileage will be reset to zero. Have not found anyone who can correct it since it resides in the dash and not the ecu. Any slick ways to download the mileage to the ecu and then copy it back. Would be nice to just input the new mileage but pretty sure there are some legal implications of doing that independent from a dealer.
Canuck,
Are you referring to the correction factor in the fuel map? I had mine wrong on reflash and my bike hit 150MPH in my driveway. My driveway is about 70 feet long.  :laugh:

Hunter
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 05, 2015, 03:49:07 AM
Can someone post a link to the Correct Bluetooth reader for android app. Want to make sure I order the right one. 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K8R0MU8?psc=1
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: cliffyg on August 11, 2015, 12:23:30 PM
I have a V7 classic 2010 model, I've downloaded the relevant guzzidiag software in the hope of resetting the tps.
I have followed the tutorial ( I think ) but when it comes to resetting the tps it makes no difference, the 'throttle' window just constantly flashes between 2.69 and 3.10 !.
I'm a bit lost on this  :sad:

Also after letting the reader download the ecu do i need to do the writer part for anything to make affect ?
Help   :embarrassed:
 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: HarveyMushman on August 11, 2015, 06:45:10 PM
It worked on my Mac.  I'm running OS Yosemite 10.10.4. 

I haven't tried every function, but I managed to connect, copy my original map, and reset the TPS after installing a GuzziTech ECU. 

(https://harveymushman.smugmug.com/photos/i-rRbg5wk/0/XL/i-rRbg5wk-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: HarveyMushman on August 12, 2015, 08:34:17 AM
It worked on my Mac.  I'm running OS Yosemite 10.10.4. 

I haven't tried every function, but I managed to connect, copy my original map, and reset the TPS after installing a GuzziTech ECU. 

One wrinkle: the original map that I copied to my desktop seems to have disappeared . . .
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 12, 2015, 03:57:13 PM
One wrinkle: the original map that I copied to my desktop seems to have disappeared . . .

This seems to occurs with every MacOS user. It's there, it's just not where you expect it to be. Check your desktop, or do a file system search for whatever you called the file. It has a .bin extension.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 12, 2015, 04:01:23 PM
I have a V7 classic 2010 model, I've downloaded the relevant guzzidiag software in the hope of resetting the tps.
I have followed the tutorial ( I think ) but when it comes to resetting the tps it makes no difference, the 'throttle' window just constantly flashes between 2.69 and 3.10 !.
I'm a bit lost on this  :sad:

Also after letting the reader download the ecu do i need to do the writer part for anything to make affect ?
Help   :embarrassed:
 

The writer is only required if you want to load a new map.

The flashing TPS display is a concern. The flashing may mean a noisy TPS, or a bad connection. Check your TPS wiring.

 How does the engine idle?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yukonica on August 13, 2015, 08:59:54 PM
How did you get stopped ? :laugh:

  Dusty

I was thinking "how do I get that map into my V7?" ... then I realized my driveway joins a highway.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: kris on August 14, 2015, 07:03:17 PM
Okay, finally got around to giving the Norge a proper tune and re-installed Beetles latest map.  Right away the bike idled rough and had a hard time idling.  So I started raising the co trim and it really started to smooth out.  My question is:  When I disconnect and reconnect to the computer(Mac) and check the co trim it's always back at zero, even if I click "finish" while it's on another number.  I've gone up and down the scale so much I've lost track of where I am.  Is this the way it's supposed to be or am I doing something wrong?  Also, is it best to start a little high and back off until it starts to run a little rough then add until it smoothes out or should it be done the other way around, starting rough and raising until it smoothes out?  Probably doesn't matter as I think the result would be the same, just want to be sure.

Thanks for any help!  Everyone have a great weekend!!  Hot as hell here in So Cal!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Kris
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Idontwantapickle on August 14, 2015, 08:04:21 PM
Canuck,
Are you referring to the correction factor in the fuel map? I had mine wrong on reflash and my bike hit 150MPH in my driveway. My driveway is about 70 feet long.  :laugh:

Hunter

How did you get stopped ? :laugh:

  Dusty

Wormhole just on the right at the street. Took 7 hours to ride back though. :grin:

Hunter
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 14, 2015, 08:56:07 PM
Quote
When I disconnect and reconnect to the computer(Mac) and check the co trim it's always back at zero


Something isn't right. The CO trim value is set in the non-volatile RAM of the ECU. The value is remembered even after disconnecting the battery. I don't use a Mac, so ice had no experience with the Mac version.

As far as setting the trim, you could try +5, not the difference, then go straight to -5 and see how things change. Or should usually let the engine idle for 30 seconds after clicking finish, so the engine has time to settle.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: airheadbruce on August 14, 2015, 10:38:11 PM
Very happy with Mark's map for my 2013 stelvio. I am not a computer geek so I very cautiously decided to hook up to my new ntx. Damm! Much better and no drama hooking up! After reading all the missteps from others, I almost expected a hiccup...... nope.  Guzzidiag connected right away, adjusted tps, played with co and read the updated map.
Thanks Mark(Beetle)!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: cliffyg on August 17, 2015, 05:17:12 PM
The writer is only required if you want to load a new map.

The flashing TPS display is a concern. The flashing may mean a noisy TPS, or a bad connection. Check your TPS wiring.

 How does the engine idle?
Ok thanks for that !. As for running it is pretty bad sort of 'stutters' from cold   :violent1: but fine once warm  :smiley:
I shall check connections tomorrow.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: airheadbruce on August 17, 2015, 06:30:44 PM
Feedback on using Beetles map 55e1.2015.04.13 on my 2013 Stelvio. Rode 100 miles today, half 60-70mph and half 25-45, getting an indicated 48 mpg's! Played with the co adjustment some the last few days. Minus2, 0, plus 2, plus 4 and plus 5. Went from the plus 5 to 0 last night just to see if going plus was the right way to adjust...... nope.... 0 for me makes for the smoothest off idle to 2500 rpm range. Idle speed was consistently 1200 hot or cold.
Very happy with the map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: HarveyMushman on August 19, 2015, 02:32:39 PM
Is there a listing somewhere of the available maps out there?  Something that maybe describes what the maker did, what sort of set-up the map is appropriate for, i.e., completely stock or aftermarket slip-on or open pipe/airbox?   
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 19, 2015, 04:51:12 PM
Is there a listing somewhere of the available maps out there?  Something that maybe describes what the maker did, what sort of set-up the map is appropriate for, i.e., completely stock or aftermarket slip-on or open pipe/airbox?

No point in building maps for open air boxes. As for pipes? Mark has built one no dbk map for the Mistral Hi Pipe and I believe he's currently working on a noisy moron map for a bloke with a modified Termi but AFAIK that's it. Others may of done more work for other set-ups, I dunno. He's off fixing titty-squishers in Tassie at the moment and may not have innerneck access.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 19, 2015, 04:57:39 PM
Ok, you lost me at tittie squishers.. <scratching head> Ah! Mammogram machines? :smiley:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 19, 2015, 05:01:50 PM
Correct! You win the Kewpie doll!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 19, 2015, 05:41:58 PM
Servicing a SPECT/CT today. I've had enough of the the titty squishers.

There is no 'listing' for maps. I have several maps for the Griso in various pipe configurations, as well as maps for be Norge, Sport and Stelvio. Plus some others. If you want a map for a specific setup, ask. The worst I can say is 'no'. I don't have maps for all models and pipes because it takes time and costs money to build a map. Other members have maps for various bikes and pipes too. Want a map? Ask on the forum.

Oh, and I won't build a map for an open airbox. Or stupidly open pipes. This Termi monstrosity is a one-off.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: HarveyMushman on August 19, 2015, 06:51:24 PM
Servicing a SPECT/CT today. I've had enough of the the titty squishers.

There is no 'listing' for maps. I have several maps for the Griso in various pipe configurations, as well as maps for be Norge, Sport and Stelvio. Plus some others. If you want a map for a specific setup, ask. The worst I can say is 'no'. I don't have maps for all models and pipes because it takes time and costs money to build a map. Other members have maps for various bikes and pipes too. Want a map? Ask on the forum.

Oh, and I won't build a map for an open airbox. Or stupidly open pipes. This Termi monstrosity is a one-off.

Ok.  I have a '13 Stelvio, stock at the moment, but I just ordered a Mistral slip-on that I plan to run with the db-killer installed.  Do you have a map for that? 

I have no plans to open the airbox as I understand these engines don't like that.  What about just removing the snorkel?  I'd like a little intake honk to accompany the new can.  This a no-go too?     
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 19, 2015, 07:34:31 PM
Try it and see. The snorkel does make a difference, on Griso's at least, but not a huge difference. Flick me your email in a PM and I can send you the 2O2 map I have. Not sure if it's the latest iteration or not. I take it your bike is a 2O2 and ABS model?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on August 20, 2015, 08:37:58 PM
OK, I finally got my GuzziDiag/ScanM5X test setup in place. Here's the gear:


The USB-OBDII connection works with both the tablet and the laptop with GuzziDiag in several recent versions. No difficulty establishing a connection using the automatically downloaded drivers on either device/OS version, and seeing the ECU from GuzziDiag.

The Bluetooth device works with the Android phone, no problems with pairing, configuring Scan5MX, and seeing feedback from the ECU.

The Bluetooth device pairs with both Windows devices with no issues. After pairing is completed, the Windows OS sees two new COM ports. one is listed as 'incoming' and the other is listed as 'outgoing'. GuzziDiag can see both COM ports, but cannot establish a successful connection regardless of which is chosen. I have tried both very rapid connection requests, and more slow attempts. In all cases, the software is unable to see the ECU.

I checked using wildguzzi specific searches to see if I could find a similar issue already addressed here, but either I'm asking the question the wrong way or this is a new issue. I also checked in all the pipes of the Interweb, but nothing so far there. I have a sneaky suspicion I'm missing something, even though I've checked that the device works correctly with Android (but not Windows, or at least its apps) and that the COM port is set as shown on the GuzziDiag website (though their screens show a frame rate setting not available in Win8 or Win10).

The collective wisdom is called upon...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 20, 2015, 08:46:27 PM
The Bluetooth device pairs with both Windows devices with no issues. After pairing is completed, the Windows OS sees two new COM ports. one is listed as 'incoming' and the other is listed as 'outgoing'. GuzziDiag can see both COM ports, but cannot establish a successful connection regardless of which is chosen.

I thought I heard that only the FTDI chip set in the USB cables would handle the unique baud rates used by GuzziDiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on August 20, 2015, 09:19:45 PM
I thought I heard that only the FTDI chip set in the USB cables would handle the unique baud rates used by GuzziDiag.

Well, the 'virtual' COM port used for the Bluetooth device has been set to the same configuration as the FTDI chipset based hardwire cable - and I still remember (through a glass, darkly  :wink: ) most of my old serial communications skills and AT command programming. The evidence that the same device works well with the Android software makes me think it has to be an issue of the app (GuzziDiag) or the communication (data frame size, something similar) on the Windows side. I'm digging to see whether there is an interface to the Bluetooth COM port that lets me tweak that setting...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 20, 2015, 09:47:07 PM
GuzziDiag does not work with Bluetooth. No how, no way.  Believe me, I've tried.

Cease now, lest madness take you. 

For resetting TPS and stuff, ScanM5x works a treat, and can do pretty much anything GD can.  No map reading/writing, of course.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Viker on August 20, 2015, 10:00:28 PM
^ Awesome! I'll give it a try.

UPDATE: No joy.  :sad: The writer program works, but it still cannot see any maps, not even if the driver-disabling program is in use. I will just have to forego using Guzzi Diag for now. (Since my only real fueling problem is bucking and lurching at low throttle settings, I may simply resort to a couple of O2 foolers with a mild enriching setting.)

Are you still using Mavericks?

Try Yosemite. My setup connected first try, using the built-in Yosemite drivers. No issues, no shenanigans.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Viker on August 20, 2015, 10:27:32 PM
There is no 'listing' for maps.

Beetle, do you feel it would be a bad idea to have a listing/directory for maps?

I totally understand that you're a busy man with better things to do, so I'm not asking you to create one. But what if someone else did?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on August 20, 2015, 10:46:29 PM
GuzziDiag does not work with Bluetooth. No how, no way.  Believe me, I've tried.

Cease now, lest madness take you. 

For resetting TPS and stuff, ScanM5x works a treat, and can do pretty much anything GD can.  No map reading/writing, of course.

"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad"


Well, I made a mainframe talk to a typesetting machine back in the 70s, when everyone said it wouldn't work. The gods have done darn near as much to me as Prometheus (though I still have my guts, so far), so maybe I'll take this one as one of my "I still need to be a bit techie" projects...

If ScanM5x can do it, then it's either bad manners (and COM port handling) on the part of GuzziDiag, or poor COM port virtualization in the drivers. I just have to figure out which!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 21, 2015, 05:43:23 AM
Beetle, do you feel it would be a bad idea to have a listing/directory for maps?

I totally understand that you're a busy man with better things to do, so I'm not asking you to create one. But what if someone else did?


You see, I've been exploited in the past. I'm not selling maps to make a quid, but I still reserve the right to rigorously defend my intellectual property. What has this to do with lists you may ask? I get contacted lot, and I mean A Lot by peeps seeking maps. Most are genuinely wanting to improve their bike, but there have been one or two complete arseholes, who, in the past, have used my good nature and generosity to aquire several maps for their own financial gain. At the risk of seeming paranoid, I still prefer to be contacted through the 'usual channels' so that I can perform my own form of due diligence. I absolutely do not want a list 'out there' that will direct the venal scum right to me.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 21, 2015, 06:34:55 AM

"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad"


Well, I made a mainframe talk to a typesetting machine back in the 70s, when everyone said it wouldn't work. The gods have done darn near as much to me as Prometheus (though I still have my guts, so far), so maybe I'll take this one as one of my "I still need to be a bit techie" projects...

If ScanM5x can do it, then it's either bad manners (and COM port handling) on the part of GuzziDiag, or poor COM port virtualization in the drivers. I just have to figure out which!

So why should we put our energy in supporting bluetooth in Guzzidiag?

I tried to use scanmx with BT, I tried 3 adapters, and two phones. I can connect but connection isn't stable langer time.   My goal was to see if I could log data during driving. All BT adapters are different. Using Guzzidiag is mostly done at home, so the cable connection is not a problem.
For mapping, the timing is crucial, why bother with a less reliable connection?


We are more interested in supporting more ecu's and getting more things to be able to diagnose.
Paul
 

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on August 21, 2015, 12:16:21 PM
So why should we put our energy in supporting bluetooth in Guzzidiag?

I tried to use scanmx with BT, I tried 3 adapters, and two phones. I can connect but connection isn't stable langer time.   My goal was to see if I could log data during driving. All BT adapters are different. Using Guzzidiag is mostly done at home, so the cable connection is not a problem.
For mapping, the timing is crucial, why bother with a less reliable connection?


We are more interested in supporting more ecu's and getting more things to be able to diagnose.
Paul

Well, I have to use a Windows device to manage my PC-V, and to be honest I like a larger screen and keyboard for some of this stuff. At the least, I like a tablet rather than a small phone screen for doing anything serious. Since I don't (currently) have an Android tablet, I'm interested in trying to get something set up for GuzziDiag. The Bluetooth connection is a matter of convenience and consistency, a 'want' rather than a 'need'. Also, when I analyze data, I'm more likely to do it on a PC than a smaller device.

Thanks for your comment regarding connection stability; I'll have a chance to check that on my set-up this weekend. Like you, it's likely I would use a cable when loading a map, but that's something I rarely do.

As far as the Bluetooth adapters being different, so are the USB-OBDII cables - look at all the bits that have been poured out of the bucket in messaging regarding the various chipsets and drivers, and counterfeit chipsets, and...  :laugh:  In fact, there have even been issues with the quality and reliability of the Fiat three-pin adapters, and they don't even have logic built in. We all benefit when something is learned, both about the reliability and serviceability of products and sources, and about the usage of the tools themselves. That's why we have this thread, and why I included the specifics about the tools I was using - it may help somebody. I do think that in time, we're going to be able to identify vendors who have reliable Bluetooth devices, much as we've been able to identify suppliers whose cables are made with real FTDI chips.

I understand those more directly involved in GuzziDiag's development may have other priorities - that's why I mentioned that I might look at it as a little project for myself to figure out why this connectivity issue exists. If I can't (or shouldn't) fix it based on what I find, I have at least learned something and can pass that information to the GuzziDiag developers for their feature wishlist. Whether it's a priority for anyone besides me is my issue, not theirs; I'm just thankful they've invested the effort to make the tool so useful thus far.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rdbandkab on August 21, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
I wish the Capo 1200 was Guzzidiag friendly!   With the engine and suspension involved in the Caponord MAPs,  it would probably be a very complicated proposition..
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 21, 2015, 02:28:44 PM
I wish the Capo 1200 was Guzzidiag friendly!   With the engine and suspension involved in the Caponord MAPs,  it would probably be a very complicated proposition..

well one thing is to figure out how to read and write maps, the second one is what the heck is in in the maps.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 21, 2015, 05:20:23 PM
well one thing is to figure out how to read and write maps, the second one is what the heck is in in the maps.

Oh yeah. I'm working through the Mana map, and my brain hurts. There's a lot of stuff in that map. The Ducati ST2 was a snack by comparison.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Viker on August 22, 2015, 05:06:44 AM

You see, I've been exploited in the past. I'm not selling maps to make a quid, but I still reserve the right to rigorously defend my intellectual property. What has this to do with lists you may ask? I get contacted lot, and I mean A Lot by peeps seeking maps. Most are genuinely wanting to improve their bike, but there have been one or two complete arseholes, who, in the past, have used my good nature and generosity to aquire several maps for their own financial gain. At the risk of seeming paranoid, I still prefer to be contacted through the 'usual channels' so that I can perform my own form of due diligence. I absolutely do not want a list 'out there' that will direct the venal scum right to me.

Fair enough  :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 22, 2015, 06:58:12 PM
Quick Guzzidiag question.......2004 Lemans.  I have done the valves, TPS, sync throttlebodies, sured up the exhaust, and checked the rubber boots for leaks.  On this site I saw the recommendation to add +5 to the CO to cure the 3000 cough.

I hooked it up for the first time and it read -138 so to richen it up I set it to -135.  It runs much better.  Does this sound right?  I have heard some say to zero out the CO value?????

Thanks
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 22, 2015, 07:19:19 PM
Doesn't the 04 V11 have a lambda probe? I thought it did? If it does, tweaking the CO should have no affect. Unless you have lambda switched off in the map?

If that is the case, ie lambda off or no lambda, -138 seems odd because it should have a max value if +/-128.   :huh:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 22, 2015, 07:29:55 PM
Yup, I was pretty certain that by 2004 all of the V11's were using the 15M-RC so unless the lambda is off trim adjustment will do nothing but I would of expected the reading to revert to zero every time you connected and selected the CO trim function?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 22, 2015, 07:34:21 PM
Checked my notes starting value was -33
I hooked it up twice and it was the value I set it
How do I turn lama on or off?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzied on August 22, 2015, 07:39:05 PM
Quick Guzzidiag question.......2004 Lemans.  I have done the valves, TPS, sync throttlebodies, sured up the exhaust, and checked the rubber boots for leaks.  On this site I saw the recommendation to add +5 to the CO to cure the 3000 cough.

I hooked it up for the first time and it read -138 so to richen it up I set it to -135.  It runs much better.  Does this sound right?  I have heard some say to zero out the CO value?????

Thanks

So what is the cure for the 3000 rpm cough?  My 2003 Rosso Corsa with the 15M has always had it from day 1, but it only occurs in hotter dry temperatures (think Death Valley or Palm Springs California)?  I have played with the power commander for more fueling at this rpm and it has never helped. I was thinking perhaps the head temp sender to base cavity needing to be filled with some type of gel?

Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 22, 2015, 07:44:07 PM
In a hot, dry climate the ETS reading is less likely to be effected by ambient temperature but it could still be a factor.

WRT turning off the lambda you need to download the map, open it in tunerpro and then turn it off. You then save the map and re-load it.

Talking with a customer yesterday about a similar issue with his Griso he cited it by adding more fuel to one cylinder, can't offhand remember which one and being a different bike and map it wouldn't probably be relevant to your situation.

If you want a V11 map with the lambda off I'm pretty sure someone will have one they can share with you.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 22, 2015, 07:46:47 PM
Checked my notes starting value was -33
I hooked it up twice and it was the value I set it


Phew! Good. OK, when lambda is on, the CO trim setting is ignored by the ECU. You can change it, but nothing will happen. I'm pretty sure it will remember the value until  you switch lambda off, then it may reset to zero. I can't remember.


Quote
How do I turn lama on or off?

It has to be switched off in the map.

If it you don't fancy doing it yourself, I can do it for you. I think I have the V11 Le Mans map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 22, 2015, 08:11:07 PM
Heck of a placebo effect maybe
Wonder if PO remapped
Is there a way to see lamda in guzzidiag?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 22, 2015, 08:28:11 PM
GD does show lambda, but it's there even if it's switched off.

Best thing would be to pull the map and check.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 22, 2015, 10:08:08 PM
supposedly I have the reader and writer so I will try to read and then report back
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 22, 2015, 10:09:50 PM
I would also say that on my ride today it never coughed but seemed to be hunting a little bit when cruising at 3000

Running strong so Im hesitant to jump in too deep.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 22, 2015, 10:46:37 PM
Another thing to try is simply reset the trims. If the ride improves immediately and the 3000 rpm cough is gone, then switching off the lambda may be all you need to do.

You can reset them through GD or by pulling the main fuses for 30 seconds.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 23, 2015, 05:35:17 PM
So another dumb question.....

When I read my map is it gone from the bike until I write one back on?

Or does it stay on there until I write one over the top of it?

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 23, 2015, 05:45:29 PM
I hooked GD back up and here is the info on the map from the bottom left corner


IAW 15M PF3C
61601.045.00
3D02VS9G

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on August 23, 2015, 06:01:13 PM
So another dumb question.....

When I read my map is it gone from the bike until I write one back on?

Or does it stay on there until I write one over the top of it?

When you read it, you are just reading it -- not removing it.  The map stays until you write a map to it, during which the first step is to erase the current one.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 23, 2015, 07:48:29 PM
OK so I have read a 64k BIN file and have it.  Now how to do I turn the lamda off and write it back to the bike?

What is lamda again?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on August 23, 2015, 08:21:40 PM
Lambda = oxygen sensor, or O2 sensor.  It just means that the ECU will be looking for air/fuel ratio from the oxygen sensors, and making adjustment to fueling during closed-loop operation. 

In order to edit the BIN file, you need to open it in Tunerpro, and I believe that you need the right kind of .XDF file for your bike to provide the right framework for you BIN file.  I haven't done that part yet, so can't advise very well, but I believe there are some good threads on using Tunerpro.  Try searching for that, or someone else will be along soon to offer some more advice, I'm sure.

Good luck!

Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 23, 2015, 08:27:29 PM
You'll need TunerPro (free) to edit the map, plus the 15M XDF file from the GuzziDiag site.

Have a look at my TunerPro howto. I use a 5AM map as an example, but principle is the same.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73938.msg1155697#msg1155697
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 23, 2015, 09:12:23 PM
Beetle got TunerPro.....your 15M link didn't work so I went to guzzidiag site and it list 2 15M XDF choices.  I tried them both and there is not a lamda on off selection in the map tree?????
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 23, 2015, 09:30:11 PM
D'oh! It ain't there is it?  I didn't even know that. I don't usually work on 15M maps. OK, I'll have to find where it is and edit the XDF.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 23, 2015, 09:36:56 PM
Is it possible that the 15M maps don't have lamda?  2004 V11 Lemans?  That being the case GD would actively change the CO trim?  Mine is currently reading -26
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 23, 2015, 09:56:18 PM
They have O2 sensors, but it's possible the lambda may not be switchable, and the CO may well be active.

Set it at zero and see what happens.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Punch on August 24, 2015, 04:41:12 AM
Just throwing some thoughts in here.

From a Ducati 15M perspective I have not come across a 15M with lambda input, but that does not mean it does not exist in MG variants/applications.

If indeed there is a lambda sensor with a 15M, then another option would be to establish what the sensor type is, most likely narrowband, then disconnect it and use a diode across the harness terminals so the ECU senses a fixed voltage.

My understanding is that wideband sensors generate a voltage and narrowband is akin to a variable resistor, but a bit digital like, as in on or off.  So in the latter case with a diode as a narrowband substitute the ECU would sense a "fixed" voltage across the diode and hence not "interfere" with whatever fuel map you choose to write to the ECU.

Do some internet searching for O2 eliminator, but I expect you will find a simple solution that might, just maybe, involve something slightly more than just a diode, but don't pay big prices for something that is probably really simple.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 24, 2015, 05:04:58 AM
15M does not. 15M-RC does.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Punch on August 24, 2015, 05:19:38 AM
Thanks - something new learned to tuck away whilst my brain still functions/remembers things.

I have wondered, but not lost sleep over it, what was the RC version.

Richard
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 24, 2015, 05:49:52 AM
15M does not. 15M-RC does.

Wait. What?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 24, 2015, 05:53:26 AM
That's my understAnding of the difference. The RC suffix denotes lambda input. I may be wrong but it is what I have been led to believe.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on August 24, 2015, 05:57:44 AM
Wait. What?

Yes, that's correct.  I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think the RM came to North America.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 24, 2015, 06:37:21 AM
I thought the 'C' was for 'catalytic' ?

So riddle me this. The V11 LM and Corsa have lambda probes and use the 15M ECU. So is the probe decorative?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: smdl on August 24, 2015, 08:16:11 AM
I thought the 'C' was for 'catalytic' ?

So riddle me this. The V11 LM and Corsa have lambda probes and use the 15M ECU. So is the probe decorative?

I don't believe that the NA versions have a Lambda probe at all, or any other Lambda functionality.  I think that was mainly for Europe ( and possibly elsewhere) at that time.  Mine is a 2003, so slightly earlier, but I can confirm tonight when I get home, if that is helpful.  I think Lambda and RM went together for certain markets.

Shaun
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 24, 2015, 08:24:36 AM
I will try setting. Co to zero after work to.see if I can control it

Can u see the O2 probe on the engine?
Where do I look?
Will report back tonight
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 24, 2015, 08:44:23 AM
I don't believe that the NA versions have a Lambda probe at all, or any other Lambda functionality.  I think that was mainly for Europe ( and possibly elsewhere) at that time.  Mine is a 2003, so slightly earlier, but I can confirm tonight when I get home, if that is helpful.  I think Lambda and RM went together for certain markets.

It first showed up in NA on the Cal Vintage with the 15M-RC. The 15M on everything prior to that never had a lambda in NA that I ever saw.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 24, 2015, 08:55:59 AM
That's my understAnding of the difference. The RC suffix denotes lambda input. I may be wrong but it is what I have been led to believe.

Pete

Duh. RC stands for Rubber Chicken..
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on August 24, 2015, 02:05:53 PM
Well, I could very easily be wrong. It would be nice to confirm it one way or another.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 24, 2015, 02:48:56 PM
15m was first, after that came the 15rc, just look at what is on the ecu. With the V11 they even used same wire loom, and for europe they mounted the 15rc and a lambda, for the US they skipped the lambda and mounted the old 15m.  This started in 2003. Could be that after a while there were so much Guzzis in the USA that the air got polluted, that they also got the 15rc.   The 750 range always had the 15rc in my understanding.

Inside the 15rc is completely different in parts, also the software can do more. So does it have the capability to do a tps reset in the 750 range, with linear tps. And the things diagnose shows are more. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 24, 2015, 03:19:07 PM
OK, so the NA 15M models do not have the lambda. In that case, if dl.allen is in NA, they should be golden, and adjusting the CO trim will work.

Paul, what about Euro models? Do you know if CO trim works with the lambda versions of the 15M?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 24, 2015, 06:18:18 PM
OK, so the NA 15M models do not have the lambda. In that case, if dl.allen is in NA, they should be golden, and adjusting the CO trim will work.

Paul, what about Euro models? Do you know if CO trim works with the lambda versions of the 15M?

 there is no lambda version of the 15m, only 15rc has lambda and if you switch off lambda(in the map), you can adjust CO.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Kiwi Dave on August 24, 2015, 06:28:58 PM
I can confirm that in Kiwiland (NZ), the 2002 V11 Le Mans was sans lambda (I own one).  It was introduced the following year in 2003, and gave heaps of misery back then.  I believe they generally were bypassed to cure the issues, but I do not know whether the map had to be tweaked to allow this.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 24, 2015, 08:07:08 PM
So looked over exhaust crossover etc. definitely no O2 sensors anywhere to be found.
Warmed up bike and started Guzzidiag and adjusted my CO from -26 to 0.  When I hit finish the bike gulped for a second and then idled normally.  I turned it off and unhooked everything.   Then I started it back up, started fine, idled fine and rode the same.  Not sure it did anything or not.  I would think if it was working it would have idled a lot different. I will say it did not cough at all when cruising at 3000 rpms but I need to ride it a few days to say for sure.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzied on August 24, 2015, 09:15:36 PM
My 2003 Rosso Corsa USA version does not have any 02 sensors either, I thought they came with the 04 models in the USA, guess not?

dl.allen, let me know if your cough is gone at 3000 rpm, it might fix the cough my bike has?

Mike
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 25, 2015, 06:22:41 AM
So looked over exhaust crossover etc. definitely no O2 sensors anywhere to be found.
Warmed up bike and started Guzzidiag and adjusted my CO from -26 to 0.  When I hit finish the bike gulped for a second and then idled normally.  I turned it off and unhooked everything.   Then I started it back up, started fine, idled fine and rode the same.  Not sure it did anything or not.  I would think if it was working it would have idled a lot different. I will say it did not cough at all when cruising at 3000 rpms but I need to ride it a few days to say for sure.

 when you connect it again and it reads 0, it worked.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 25, 2015, 11:54:45 AM
I'm really going to speculate and say that when I bought the bike it was running stinking rich so
I checked tps and it was set really high and maybe the PO lowered the CO to.compensate.
Now I have everything set back to baseline stock values.  Will run it a few days and report in
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on August 30, 2015, 09:30:42 AM
Has anyone confirmed the functionality of Guzzidiag, writer, reader and TunerPro with Windows 10?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dl.allen on August 30, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
Just wanted to report back in and say bike has been running perfectly.  Havent ridden much due to wildfires threatening the area.

Also, in addition to all the tuning I put the metal shims in the front crossover and sealed them up with RTV.  Now the cross over is very solid and no leaks.

Thanks for all the help from everyone and I learned a lot along the way.  Now on to proper suspension set up....... :shocked:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 30, 2015, 10:50:08 AM
Has anyone confirmed the functionality of Guzzidiag, writer, reader and TunerPro with Windows 10?
Works with my tablet with Win 10.
Just followed he directions on the GuzziDiag site.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on August 30, 2015, 11:34:13 AM
Has anyone confirmed the functionality of Guzzidiag, writer, reader and TunerPro with Windows 10?

 yes works with win 10/ 64. I did the upgrade, and it kept the ftdi diver I had.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on August 30, 2015, 02:48:25 PM
Has anyone confirmed the functionality of Guzzidiag, writer, reader and TunerPro with Windows 10?

On my Windows10 tablet 2-in-1, it installed and operated normally right from scratch. I'm using it with a cable/adapter certified to have a genuine FTDI chip.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Queensland Ken on September 08, 2015, 09:57:55 PM
Thanks very much for all the information.
My first attempt on my Stelvio went well, there was 2 cm difference between the bodies.

The only small problem were some redundant drivers on my laptop, couldn't get the communications working.
Tried everything to load up the FTDI 2.08.14 drivers, just didn't want to install properly. (time to format & start again)
Used my netbook instead, worked a treat.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: k99 on September 18, 2015, 07:59:08 PM
I am attempting to reset the TPS on my 2014 V7 Special but the TPS reset option does not appear in the dropdown menu on GuzziDiag.

(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b457/kdiciero99/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-18%20at%205.43.04%20PM_zpsddngggca.png)

I am using V0.47 on an MIUG3 ECU.  Am I missing something or are you unable to do that on this ECU with GuzziDiag?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on September 18, 2015, 08:34:07 PM
DON'T!

The only time you ever re-set the TPS on a single TB model is after it has been re-mapped and even then on the newer V7-II's they don't recommend it after 3,000km due to wear in the shitty plastic cam wheel.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: k99 on September 18, 2015, 08:50:02 PM
Quote
The only time you ever re-set the TPS on a single TB model is after it has been re-mapped and even then on the newer V7-II's they don't recommend it after 3,000km due to wear in the shitty plastic cam wheel.

I did just have it remapped and it only has 4 miles on it. Should I or should I not reset the TPS?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on September 18, 2015, 08:52:57 PM
Who re-mapped it? They should of recalibrate do it afterwards.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: k99 on September 18, 2015, 09:00:58 PM
Quote
Who re-mapped it? They should of recalibrate do it afterwards.

I shipped the throttlebody/ECU out to Todd at GuzziTech.  Just got it back today and reinstalled it.  This is what I am seeing on the measurements view if that helps.

(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b457/kdiciero99/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-18%20at%205.43.19%20PM_zpsfm4ei1dq.png)

-Keith
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on September 18, 2015, 11:35:58 PM
No idea I'm afraid. I haven't used Guzzidiag for a MUIG3 yet as we can't write or upload maps yet. Didn't you get any instructions from the vendor?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: k99 on September 20, 2015, 05:19:22 PM
Ok, a quick update that will hopefully help anyone else in the same situation.  If you have a MUIG3 ECU on a V7 and are using the current version of GuzziDiag (as of this post V0.47) there is no TPS Reset option so here is what you do:

1) In the top menu, go to View -> Actors
2) In any of the drop down menus select "Reset outlearning parameters", then click start
3) In any of the drop down menus select "Throttle self-learning", then click start.
3) In the top menu, go back to View -> Measurements
4) In any of the drop down menus select "Throttle", if you are around 0.9 or 1.0 degrees you should be good to go

This info is for the single throttle body V7 with the MUIG3 ECU.  Not sure if it is the same for the V7II.

For anyone that added an aftermarket exhaust you really should be updating your fuel mapping.  I added the GuzziTech mapping myself and highly recommend it, but to each their own.  So what ever works for you, go for it.  You'll be amazed at the difference. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Revan on September 24, 2015, 07:35:25 PM
Hello everyone.

New member, here.

I have been following this thread for a little bit, and I have a few questions about the GuziDiag......actua lly, it's more of a problem.

Let me give you all a little background information, first.

I just picked up a 2009 Norge GT. The bike is stock, with under 6k miles on it.

Since I have had it, I have noticed that the bike is really hard to start when cold, it has massive popping on decel, jerky throttle response with some lower end lags, and runs really hot.

I have been thinking about sending my ECU out to be reflashed, but I wanted to get the GuzziDiag software up and running as well.....just so I can do the TPS reset and CO adjustments if I need to on my own.

So, I got all of the hardware and software that is needed for this, but I can't seem to get it connected to my bike. Everything looks alright......the hardware is correct. I cracked open the plug case and checked the chipset to make sure, and the software drivers are installed and show up correctly when looking at the device manager.

But, when I try to hook everything up to the ECU plug....nothing happens. The red light doesn't even come on. Now, there are 2 plugs on the Norge under the seat. There is the one with the 2 wires that is located in the rear of the bike under the passenger seat next to the spare fuses (which from what I have read should be the correct ECU plug). Then, there is the plug with 3 wires in it, which is hanging next to the battery......and that should be the one that checks the ABS system (at least from what I have read as well).

Now here is the weird part. When I plug the hardware into the 3-wired one, the red light on the ecu plug comes on and my software recognizes that something is happening even though it can not read any of the information that it is looking at.

Now, when I plug the module into the 2-wired connector.....nothi ng happens.....I get no connection at all. The red light on the ECU plug does not come on and the software just times out and/or tells me that my ignition is not on.

So, my question is.........Am I using the wrong plugs and/or software or something....? Is there another location for the ECU connection that I am missing? Or, is there something wrong with the hardware on the bike?

I'm kind of at a loss here......any advice would be appreciated.......I just want to get my bike running smooth and avoid any problems caused by a lean-running engine.

Thank you all very much.

Revan.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on September 24, 2015, 07:58:47 PM
Apart from the problem with connecting the diagnostic software are you sure the machine is tuned correctly? Also is this a 4V or an 8V model?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on September 24, 2015, 08:55:59 PM
Are you connecting your cable to a 12v supply?
John
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 24, 2015, 10:16:06 PM
What John said.

The 3 pin to 16 pin adapter should have an alligator clip lead with a red shroud to attach to the battery positive. Even when you are not connected, the LED on the adapter should come one when you attach the +12V.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Revan on September 25, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
Hi, guys.

Thanks for the responses.

It is a 4v model, and I am not sure about the tune.......everythi ng appears to be stock (I'm pretty sure the previous owner never even took it in for any servicing at all).




OHHH....so the light IS supposed to come on, even when the 3-pin is not hooked up to anything!!!???

Ok....so then I DO have a hardware problem......Becaus e when I connect it to a power supply, nothing happens....the red light on the FTDI connector does not come on at all unless I plug the 3-pin connector into something.

Well....time to order a new 3 to 16 pin connector :/


Thank you very much for the information!!!

I'll get a new one and post what happens.


Also, one other question that is sort-of related.

I am looking at getting rid of the stock can and swapping it out with a GPR race can. I like the size of them, and have found that they are reasonably priced (I don't want to spend an arm-and-a-leg for a basic slip-on exhaust)....BUT..... I have been reading some controversy about the lack of back-pressure in some of the free-flowing race cans, and how the bike runs terribly with no back-pressure, etc...etc...

What is the story on that? Is there any truth to it? Could I fab an insert that increases the back pressure if it is a problem? Can the bike be tuned to compensate for it?

Your thoughts....??

Thank you, all.


Revan.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 25, 2015, 01:49:51 AM
Your bike has two diagnostic 3 pin  connectors, the one where two wires are going in is the one you need, not the 3 wire connectors.

All only if you have an ABS model, but most are. The non ABS has only a two wire connetor with 3 pins.



 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on September 25, 2015, 03:50:42 AM
Revan, you're wasting your time with guzzidiag until you get the bike properly tuned. Get it as good as it gets before changing stuff. All you'll end up doing is double work.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 25, 2015, 04:17:16 AM
Revan, you're wasting your time with guzzidiag until you get the bike properly tuned. Get it as good as it gets before changing stuff. All you'll end up doing is double work.

I see that different. Only afterwards when you know what was wrong you can conclude that. I know of a lot of things that have been solved with using Guzzidiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 25, 2015, 04:54:14 AM
I agree with Paul. GuzziDiag is a tool to be used to help diagnose issues and assist with tuning.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on September 25, 2015, 05:08:31 AM
To tune it properly you need to be able to recalibrate the TPS. This requires a tool, Guzzidiag is by far the best tool for performing re-set functions on the W5AM. Why? Because it works, every time. The only time I bother with PADS nowadays is for machines that Guzzidiag doesn't work on yet. And all it costs is a couple of cables off the Bay Of Fleas or Amazon and, if you are a decent human being, a donation to the authors.

Unless the bike is tuned properly though you might as well sprinkle fairy-dust n it and chant at it. It'll still run like a three legged rhino with a spear up its blurter.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on September 25, 2015, 10:42:02 AM
Prior to all that, going through the bike because as the poster said, it probably hasn't ever been serviced, take care of the basics which guzzidian isn't going to take care of nor give you indications.

Things like filters all around, oils, checking cables, fasteners, wiring, change the spark plugs, make sure the gas is fresh, adjust all the controls, tire pressures, physical check of the suspension, and those things. After that, sure, dive in with Guzzidiag but without all those other items properly checked and checked off, it will still run like a worn out go cart egardless of how much fiddling is done with Guzzidiag.

In other words, eliminate all those variables, then take it for a ride and get a baseline of how it feels, sounds and performs without trashing it. Nice and easy. Then go after engine specifics and related and the owner will be able to tell the difference between the as good as it was to as good as it can be. Guzzidiag isn't going to change the plugs or filters and I have yet to see or hear of anyone tuning and engine well without good oils and good plugs, making sure the wiring for coils and such is good.

That was the point as a motorcycle is tuned as a complete thing, a well running engine doesn't mean a thing if it wallows down the the road, vibrates because the fasteners are loose and the spark plugs are feeble., the controls are sloppy and the owner has yet to RTM, evidenced by the question itself.

I guess though, going about it from the other end might work FAIK.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on September 25, 2015, 12:59:18 PM
Hi, guys.

Thanks for the responses.

OHHH....so the light IS supposed to come on, even when the 3-pin is not hooked up to anything!!!???

Ok....so then I DO have a hardware problem......Becaus e when I connect it to a power supply, nothing happens....the red light on the FTDI connector does not come on at all unless I plug the 3-pin connector into something.

Well....time to order a new 3 to 16 pin connector :/

Revan.

Not so fast - let's make sure we are being clear!

The adapter (3 to 16) cable should have AT LEAST one cable coming out with a clip on the end. Most have two - a positive and a negative. The adapter will get POSITIVE power through the clip cable (to your battery positive terminal) and will access ground through the wiring of the 3-pin plug on the bike AND the alligator clip wire if it is present. IF you clip the wire to the positive terminal and DO NOT plug the 3-wire connector to anything on the bike, there is no ground (unless you also have and use the negative alligator clip).

In other words, the red light on your cable's connector head needs both positive and negative connections to operate - and they must come through that 3-16 adapter cable's connections to the bike.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Revan on September 26, 2015, 12:13:41 AM
Not so fast - let's make sure we are being clear!

The adapter (3 to 16) cable should have AT LEAST one cable coming out with a clip on the end. Most have two - a positive and a negative. The adapter will get POSITIVE power through the clip cable (to your battery positive terminal) and will access ground through the wiring of the 3-pin plug on the bike AND the alligator clip wire if it is present. IF you clip the wire to the positive terminal and DO NOT plug the 3-wire connector to anything on the bike, there is no ground (unless you also have and use the negative alligator clip).

In other words, the red light on your cable's connector head needs both positive and negative connections to operate - and they must come through that 3-16 adapter cable's connections to the bike.


Yeah......my 3-16 pin is the one with both leads (positive and negative).

So, here was my process....I plugged the FTDI connector to my laptop---->attached it to the 3-16 pin connector---> connected the negative and positive leads of the 3-16 connector to the battery.
So, if I understand correctly, at this point (before I plug the 3 pin plug into the bike), the FTDI connectors red light should come on because the 2 leads are feeding the FTDI connector power??
 
Because, if it is.....it's not......Nothing happens. When I connected the 2 power leads to my battery, the LED did not come on, Then, when I plugged the 3 pin connector into the bike, the light still doesn't come on. Even when I turn on the ignition......still nothing happens.

The only time that the light FAINTLY came on was when I connected it to the 3-pin port for the bikes ABS diagnostics (which seemed to feed the FTDI some power).

The FTDI connector does work, the light will come on when I plug it into something that has a powered circuit to it  (like when I plugged it into my cars 16 pin diagnostic port).....so now the only thing that I can think of, is that it must be that the power leads on the 3-16 pin connector are not correctly feeding the FTDI unit power at all........unless I'm missing something else.

Revan.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on September 26, 2015, 04:00:50 AM
That's right. The diagnostic port doses not have a12v supply, that's why you have the crocodile (or alligator? :-)) clips to connect to your battery. If the red light doesn't come on, it sounds like your adapter is defective.
John
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on September 26, 2015, 05:32:52 PM

Yeah......my 3-16 pin is the one with both leads (positive and negative).

The FTDI connector does work, the light will come on when I plug it into something that has a powered circuit to it  (like when I plugged it into my cars 16 pin diagnostic port).....so now the only thing that I can think of, is that it must be that the power leads on the 3-16 pin connector are not correctly feeding the FTDI unit power at all........unless I'm missing something else.

Revan.

That sounds correct. It has been noted that these 3-16 adapters are sometimes not wired correctly, and sometimes are poorly constructed. You can test the adapter you have with a multimeter set for continuity testing. The positive alligator clip should provide a connection to pin 16 of the 16 pin connector (lower right, narrow part of shell at bottom), and the negative alligator clip should go to the middle pin on the 3 pin side, and the #4 (and sometimes 5) pin on the 16 pin side (left of middle top, narrow part of shell at bottom).

Otherwise, your adapter is in fact faulty.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on September 29, 2015, 07:39:00 PM
I had a working system using my Mac Book Pro. A buddy gave me his cable set because he could not get them to work, using his Windows Laptop on he EV. So I hooked up the Mac, his cables, my Griso - no joy. Hooked up my cables - no joy.

Setup my Windows 10 laptop; installed GuzziDiag, Reader and Writer; tried with that beast. No joy.

Did some reading up and it looks like 10.9, 10.10 use Apple supplied drivers so went with them, no joy.

Went to FTDI and got their drivers, installed, removed, installed; no joy.

Opened up my cable adaptor and the chip is unlabeled (but OS X's System preferences shows a FTDI chipset with serial number, same info, different serial number as my buddies cable set - and his does have an FTDI labeled chip).

My setup WAS working about two weeks ago as I was looking at documenting this process. But right now, when I choose a com port that field is blank. On the Windows laptop I get a com 4, which matches the Device Driver in Windows. On the Mac I used to get a path to a virtual port in the com field. No more.  :thewife:

I'm flumuxed. Need some hints.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 01, 2015, 05:32:50 PM
The cheap ftdi  connectors can break, they have used simple parts with no spike protection. So even if they have been working, they can end doing that. Not an ftdi fault, but the components used around it.

For osx, you didn't update in between, since I read there is a new version out?

This is how it looks in devicemanager in windows 10. When usb is't connected you can see the config if you choose "show hidden devices"

(http://s8.postimg.org/hh1285eid/Captureftdi.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 01, 2015, 06:51:02 PM
Mine differs from yours in:

Driver Date: 7/1/2015
Driver Version: 2.12.6.0

(com port 5, but that is of no consequence)

Just upgraded to the latest OS X this morning, El Capitan. Was not even on my radar and said to myself "why the hell not!". Have not tried the adaptor since - other issues have cropped up.

Hardware failure. Something I had not considered (and should have). Bugger! Well, may have to consider ordering a new one. Is there a "better" one you can recommend?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 01, 2015, 06:54:22 PM
By the way, this is the cable I have (and the one my buddy bought):
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Triumph-Motorcycle-TuneECU-Program/dp/B003ZKKMLE/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443743599&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=ODB+2+adaptor+FTDI
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ITSec on October 01, 2015, 07:14:18 PM

Hardware failure. Something I had not considered (and should have). Bugger! Well, may have to consider ordering a new one. Is there a "better" one you can recommend?


I am using

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Triumph-Motorcycle-TuneECU-Program/dp/B003ZKKMLE/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1443744669&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+cable+for+triumph+obdii (http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Triumph-Motorcycle-TuneECU-Program/dp/B003ZKKMLE/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1443744669&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+cable+for+triumph+obdii) with

http://www.amazon.com/Goliton%C2%AE-OBD2-Connector-Diagnostic-Adapter/dp/B0053NRLHE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1443744609&sr=1-1&keywords=goliton+fiat (http://www.amazon.com/Goliton%C2%AE-OBD2-Connector-Diagnostic-Adapter/dp/B0053NRLHE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1443744609&sr=1-1&keywords=goliton+fiat)

I believe that's the same as yours. It has been very well reviewed and is supposed to use a genuine FTDI chip, and my testing on it is positive.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 02, 2015, 11:18:12 AM
That is the very one I bought and advised Jim to get. I suppose there is chance that both went tits up and need replacing. Both computers seem to recognize it correctly when plugged in (not an air tight experiment to indicated a fully functioning cable though) which has me scratching my head.

I wonder if there is a better unit on the market.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sib on October 02, 2015, 11:48:00 AM
I'm using El Capitan OSX 10.11.1 beta.  Guzzidiag (0.47) works fine for me ('16 Stone), but it didn't until I installed the FTDI USB serial driver (2.3) off the Guzzidiag site.  I used Guzzidiag to determine my ECU flash version (it's 4533V740).  I don't intend to update it until I see reports of a newer one that works better.  So far, the updates seem to do more harm than good.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 02, 2015, 02:19:21 PM
Version 3.2?? I only see 2-3.5
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sib on October 03, 2015, 10:14:02 AM
Version 3.2?? I only see 2-3.5
Sorry, lysdexic moment, it's vers. 2.3.  I've corrected the earlier post.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 03, 2015, 12:50:09 PM
Whew! I was worried for a second!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dubtac on October 03, 2015, 08:40:28 PM
Fantastic post I was thinking about taking off the air box lid on my Breva. Will the software all me to modify the maps for the extra airflow or should I get a Power Commander?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 03, 2015, 10:37:03 PM
I seriously doubt the airbag lid mod will do anything more than raise the intake noise. E.g. my Ford F150 with twin turbos has about the same sized snorkel as my Griso. You're going to tell me a 3.5 liter turbo'd motor is breathing fine and yet a normally aspirated 1.2 liter motor is not?

Second point; why hire a middleman when you can talk directly to your customer?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: dubtac on October 04, 2015, 11:59:59 PM
I seriously doubt the airbag lid mod will do anything more than raise the intake noise. E.g. my Ford F150 with twin turbos has about the same sized snorkel as my Griso. You're going to tell me a 3.5 liter turbo'd motor is breathing fine and yet a normally aspirated 1.2 liter motor is not?

Second point; why hire a middleman when you can talk directly to your customer?
I figure that the Breva airbox is about the same size as my 5.0 93 f150s' plenum. Seems like the box top with the cute oval limits actionable cfm while leaving enough air to keep everything nice and lean to meet emissions. Your 3500 cc engine uses fancy super high rpm pumps called turbochargers to overcome one of the fundamental problems of any reciprocating pump,getting air into the inlet of the pump beyond atmospheric pressure its called boost. Remember that our bikes if they are both at sea level only have about 14 lbs of pressure in the box. So any restriction on a N/A engine will effect top end performance because available air depending on your elevation is limited, this becomes even worse the higher the elevation. Remember we dont suck air into our lungs atmospheric pressure pushes air into them. Depending how fast our lung muscles expand and contract depends on how much air is pushed in. Internal combustion engines are just pumps, with controlled explosions at the proper time.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on October 05, 2015, 01:11:50 AM
(Sigh.) So how come a 120+ HP Tuono uses the same filter and very similar set-up?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on October 05, 2015, 03:11:33 AM
I figure that the Breva airbox is about the same size as my 5.0 93 f150s' plenum. Seems like the box top with the cute oval limits actionable cfm while leaving enough air to keep everything nice and lean to meet emissions. Your 3500 cc engine uses fancy super high rpm pumps called turbochargers to overcome one of the fundamental problems of any reciprocating pump,getting air into the inlet of the pump beyond atmospheric pressure its called boost. Remember that our bikes if they are both at sea level only have about 14 lbs of pressure in the box. So any restriction on a N/A engine will effect top end performance because available air depending on your elevation is limited, this becomes even worse the higher the elevation. Remember we dont suck air into our lungs atmospheric pressure pushes air into them. Depending how fast our lung muscles expand and contract depends on how much air is pushed in. Internal combustion engines are just pumps, with controlled explosions at the proper time.
Eloquently put
Fantastic post I was thinking about taking off the air box lid on my Breva. Will the software all me to modify the maps for the extra airflow or should I get a Power Commander?
I think the answer to question is yes, maybe not quite as simple as carbs but post results so all know.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on October 05, 2015, 03:22:50 AM
And completely, utterly wrong but don't allow that to stop you storming off down that path.

Sorry, I don't think I can stand this.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 05, 2015, 09:32:30 AM
My fancy 3.5L uses turbines, not a turbocharger to provide boost. Since I drive with a light foot I don't dip into the boost very often so most of the time they are not working so the engine is pulling its' own air just like the bike. Yet it seems to breath just fine.

These engines have been tweaked by the factory engineers to limit emissions in the extreme while producing horse power with a decent torque curve and meeting sound requirements imposed by various agencies around the world. Unless you happen to know more than the engineers, have access to a dyno to prove what you are doing is actually helping in the areas you want improved; you are pretty much shooting in the dark.

Then there are the finer points of fluid dynamics on the intake side that make or break the pumping ability of your motor if you reduce the intake velocity by ruining the venturi effect by introducing chaotic air flow.

But it's your bike, have at it. You asked, we responded.  :boozing:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: john fish on October 06, 2015, 04:26:15 AM
My fancy 3.5L uses turbines, not a turbocharger to provide boost.

Please explain the difference. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bill Hagan on October 06, 2015, 07:05:12 AM

Some of these posts seem to have to been written while on more bourbon than even I can handle!  :wink:

But, as I only come and go here as the mood strikes ... which it does not often ... I'm probably missing something profound.

So, as Kathi leaves in a bit for three days  :thewife:, I'm screwing up my courage to start this thread at p. 1 and plod on to the end.

Want to see if I can make sense of it enough to order (finally) the right cable set, etc., then get the latest map. 

[ Yes, with a donation sufficient to at least buy beetle  :bow: and VdG  :bow: a decent beer; don't want to overtip too soon.   :boozing: ]

Pray for me; I'm going in.   :grin:

Bill
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 06, 2015, 08:43:27 AM
Some of these posts seem to have to been written while on more bourbon than even I can handle!  :wink:

But, as I only come and go here as the mood strikes ... which it does not often ... I'm probably missing something profound.

So, as Kathi leaves in a bit for three days  :thewife:, I'm screwing up my courage to start this thread at p. 1 and plod on to the end.

Want to see if I can make sense of it enough to order (finally) the right cable set, etc., then get the latest map. 

[ Yes, with a donation sufficient to at least buy beetle  :bow: and VdG  :bow: a decent beer; don't want to overtip too soon.   :boozing: ]

Pray for me; I'm going in.   :grin:

Bill

Beetle has kept page one updated. Since the Kid commandeered my cables, I bought the cables from England, downloaded their drivers, and it all works.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yo Man on October 06, 2015, 09:14:15 AM
I'm using El Capitan OSX 10.11.1 beta.  Guzzidiag (0.47) works fine for me ('16 Stone), but it didn't until I installed the FTDI USB serial driver (2.3) off the Guzzidiag site.  I used Guzzidiag to determine my ECU flash version (it's 4533V740).  I don't intend to update it until I see reports of a newer one that works better.  So far, the updates seem to do more harm than good.

I haven't been able to use my Macbook Air to install the map from Guzzidiag, had to get a friend to use his PC, but I would like to be able to rest my ups, etc. I just updated to El Capitan 10.11 and I've tried to find the FTDI USB serial driver 2.3 on Guzzidiag. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 06, 2015, 09:39:11 AM
Please explain the difference.
Turbines are powered by the exhaust flow, turbochargers are spools run directly off the engine; typically by a belt. Which one you choose to use depends on how you operate the vehicle. Turbine driven boosters have to wait for the engine to increase rpm to increase exhaust flow so there is some lag between the time you stop the go pedal and the desire action happens.

I'm on the fence about ordering another cable but I think my choices are limited. Will have to to confirm if the cable is bad or my drivers are wonky. Luckily I don't need to write up a map right now, but a buddy wants to tweak is Bassa.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: 56Pan on October 06, 2015, 09:58:32 AM
Turbines are powered by the exhaust flow, turbochargers are spools run directly off the engine; typically by a belt.
(snipped)

I believe you meant to say "superchargers" are run directly off the engine.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: john fish on October 06, 2015, 11:29:36 AM
Turbines are powered by the exhaust flow, turbochargers are spools run directly off the engine; typically by a belt. Which one you choose to use depends on how you operate the vehicle. Turbine driven boosters have to wait for the engine to increase rpm to increase exhaust flow so there is some lag between the time you stop the go pedal and the desire action happens.


The original name was turbo-supercharger.  You have turbochargers on your truck.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on October 06, 2015, 11:36:47 AM
Gah, brain fart! Thanks for the correction. I really should stay away until I've had my coffee. At least some of you are awake.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: john fish on October 06, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Gah, brain fart! Thanks for the correction. I really should stay away until I've had my coffee. At least some of you are awake.

No sweat. You had me confused. :). Admittedly, not a difficult task.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 06, 2015, 02:59:55 PM
I haven't been able to use my Macbook Air to install the map from Guzzidiag, had to get a friend to use his PC, but I would like to be able to rest my ups, etc. I just updated to El Capitan 10.11 and I've tried to find the FTDI USB serial driver 2.3 on Guzzidiag. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP/MacOSX/FTDIUSBSerialDriver_v2_3.dmg
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yo Man on October 06, 2015, 08:03:02 PM
Thanks :bow:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Clancy on October 08, 2015, 06:36:58 AM
Got GuzziDiag connected to the V7-II today.
Bought the cables from the site recommended on page 1.
Downloaded the drivers from the site recommended on page 1.
Installed all, plugged it all in, everything working straight up.
Sweet.
Big thanks to all involved for making this real.

I wanted to get this working for future fault finding (hopefully never necessary)....and besides, after a career in automation & controls, if there's a way of interrogating a processor I have to do it :)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zoomie on October 21, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
Guys, this thread has 23 pages, so I have just one quick question, please.  I'm using Guzzidiag on a Ducati.  Guzzidiag refers to the cylinders as, appropriately, Left Right.  Which cylinder on a Ducati is Left?

Thanks   :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 21, 2015, 11:43:07 AM
Quote
Which cylinder on a Ducati is Left?

The one you haven't taken off, yet. <rimshot>  :smiley: You *do* know that there is also a Ducati diag?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 21, 2015, 03:13:02 PM
left is main, and thats at a Duc the horizontal one
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yo Man on October 22, 2015, 11:52:05 AM
I'm having trouble resetting the TPS; that function is not showing up on the dropdown menu for "engine off". Anyone have a clue?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on October 22, 2015, 12:42:02 PM
I'm having trouble resetting the TPS; that function is not showing up on the dropdown menu for "engine off". Anyone have a clue?

What ECU?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on October 22, 2015, 04:59:00 PM
I'm having trouble resetting the TPS; that function is not showing up on the dropdown menu for "engine off". Anyone have a clue?

Hi Yo Man. For some reason I'm struggling to upload pictures here today, so I've sent you a couple of screen shots of how it should look in Guzzidiag. When you select the menu points "View" "Actors", you will get a warning that the engine should be off. The engine is hopefully off, right? Click that message away.

You will then see a button for TPS reset. Click on it. Nothing much happens except that it briefly changes color very slightly. That's it! You did it.

When you go back to the main page, your throttle position should show 4.7 or 4.8 degrees.

John
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yo Man on October 22, 2015, 05:03:47 PM
What ECU?

It's a 2009 Stelvio.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on October 22, 2015, 05:07:21 PM
That reminds me. I've run into this a couple of times. One of those times, I had a stored error. Makes sure that you don't have any stored errors and if so, clear the errors. Then try the TPS reset.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 22, 2015, 06:46:02 PM
what  version Guzzidiag? You should find tps reset  it in the drop down list
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yo Man on October 22, 2015, 08:08:43 PM
what  version Guzzidiag? You should find tps reset  it in the drop down list

Bingo!

I have a Mac and had decided that perhaps I should download GuzziDiag again. I noticed there where two downloads for Macs. I had the VO.46-2 version and the second version was VO.46-3.

This version worked as advertised; the TPS reset option was right there in the dropdown menu (unlike the 46-2 version).

Thanks for the help everyone. I couldn't keep this bike without all the help and advice given so freely.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sib on October 23, 2015, 08:15:33 AM
Bingo!

I have a Mac and had decided that perhaps I should download GuzziDiag again. I noticed there where two downloads for Macs. I had the VO.46-2 version and the second version was VO.46-3.

This version worked as advertised; the TPS reset option was right there in the dropdown menu (unlike the 46-2 version).

Thanks for the help everyone. I couldn't keep this bike without all the help and advice given so freely.
Sorry, I don't understand.  GuzziDiag for Mac has been at Vers 0.47 since at least August.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Clancy on October 25, 2015, 08:46:30 PM
Query.

In the drop down lists there's "Revs" and "Revs #"
What's the difference?
Is one the actual value and the other the calculated target?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: elvisboy77 on October 25, 2015, 09:23:09 PM
This system doesn't work on a 1400 California, does it?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yo Man on October 25, 2015, 09:55:06 PM
Sorry, I don't understand.  GuzziDiag for Mac has been at Vers 0.47 since at least August.

August, you say? Well I haven't got there yet, I'm still in July. When I get there, where would I find it?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on October 26, 2015, 02:58:32 AM
This system doesn't work on a 1400 California, does it?

Guzzidiag works fine on Cali 1400, only not yet the modify of maps. But all diagnostics, throttle self learning work.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bill Hagan on November 06, 2015, 06:51:52 AM

I am now officially embarrassed ... yes, again.   :rolleyes:

So, I finally ordered the cables and got 'em.

Opened the package, read the instructions -- only because it involved electricity and IT; otherwise, I'm too manly for that.  :wink:

Then sent following email to Lonelec:


From: William Hagan
Subject: Re: Lonelec - Order Update 117
Date: 05 November 2015 at 17:27:16 EST
To: Lonelec <sales2@lonelec.co.uk>

Good evening from the top of Virginia.

What I know about automotive electrics would fit into a thimble, so please bear with my undoubtedly dumb question!

I ordered see below what I intended to use (assuming I could ever figure it out!) to work on my several Moto Guzzis.  So far, so good, but I also needed same to work with my MacBook Pro.

Perhaps I am missing something, but when I finally got around to opening and reading, I see nothing in the accompanying instructions that mentions Macs, but only PCs and Windows.

Did not wish to use until I confirmed that my ordered items would indeed function with my Mac.

Thanks.

Bill Hagan

========

About 20 minutes later  :bow:, (and almost 1 a.m. in the UK!) I got a response from (likely disgusted) Martin:

From: "paypal-londonelectronic" <paypal@londonelectronic.com>
Subject: RE: Notification of Payment Received
Date: 05 November 2015 at 17:48:25 EST
To: William Hagan
Reply-To: <paypal@londonelectronic.com>

Hi William,
 
Please see this forum post which provides links on use with a Mac.
 
Link here: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0
 
Kind Regards
 
Martin

============


Yup, the link was to this thread!   :rolleyes: :shocked: :embarrassed:

Now to screw up my courage to hook this stuff all up to the Guzzis and Mac.   :undecided:

But, regrettably, we have to "grandbabysit" for several days  :thewife:, so I'll just have to read about it and fret.

Thanks to beetle and all who contribute here.   :bow:

Bill
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: MGrego on November 06, 2015, 12:36:26 PM

Now to screw up my courage to hook this stuff all up to the Guzzis and Mac. 

I tried to hook up my macbook to my Guzzi, but to no avail ....  I brought home a laptop with windows on it from work, downloaded the drivers Beetle suggested, and connected first try, no problems. 

I am NOT very good with computers, so I hopefully you will have better luck than I did with the Mac.  Just saying windows worked right away and was easier for me ---  Good Luck !
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Viker on November 06, 2015, 03:59:18 PM
My MacBook was no trouble. It's possible that I accidentally did things in the right order, eg make the connections, start the Mac, start the software, start the bike

Which version of Mac OS are you running?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 06, 2015, 04:10:35 PM
Bill will probably forget to sacrifice a chicken.. he's a total newby with electronics. <shrug>
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Viker on November 06, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
OS X El Capitan has a low-level daemon (dcloudsacrifice) which uses the coreSacrifice cloud framework to initiate the sacrifice of a chicken at Apples new datacentre/chickenfarm in Arkansas, on your behalf

But only if you're signed in to your iCloud account
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on November 06, 2015, 06:37:22 PM
Bill, don't forget to get a video of the arcing and small scale mushroom cloud this time.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bill Hagan on November 06, 2015, 06:57:38 PM
Bill, don't forget to get a video of the arcing and small scale mushroom cloud this time.

Bill will probably forget to sacrifice a chicken.. he's a total newby with electronics. <shrug>

Cruel. Cruel. Cruel.

And, unfair.

For example, I just put shrink wrap on my 15-YO Gerbing jacket wires and didn't do (much) damage.   :rolleyes:

Ain't pretty, but it works.     :wink:

Needed large one to go over the SAE connector, but then couldn't get the sleeve to shrink enough.  When I get home next week, I'm getting out the propane torch to cinch it down.  Yes, Kathi promises pix.   :grin:


(https://bill-and-kathi.smugmug.com/photos/i-nZZx4LW/0/L/i-nZZx4LW-L.jpg)

(https://bill-and-kathi.smugmug.com/photos/i-jPbS6g7/0/L/i-jPbS6g7-L.jpg)


As for guzzidiag, etc., I'm looking forward to trying it.  We may have some guinea hens on the place by then, so finding a victim won't be hard.  Not many virgins among that sort, so hope chastity is not a requirement.   :azn:

Bill


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on November 06, 2015, 07:10:12 PM
For example, I just put shrink wrap on my 15-YO Gerbing jacket wires and didn't do (much) damage.   :rolleyes:

Some time you are traveling north out of Atl on 85, stop at Frys off of Pleasant Hill Rd. They have a lot of heat shrink choices that can hide disasters.



Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 12:36:14 PM
Hi everyone,

New to my 2013 Stelvio bike (an old one I purchased with 10,000 miles) and have been ever since a month ago trying to figure out a rough idle with stalling and codes.

0130, 0135, 0136 and 0351.

Following some suggestions I flushed the map with another that had the lambda off I was told could help smooth the idle and do away with cutting off on cylinder..  I also replaced spark plug wires and caps with NGK.
That new map didn't help so I switched back to original map.
However now even following the correct procedure in GuzziDiag - CO trim remains at 10 - so I can't put it back to 0 or any other value for that matter. I go through the correct steps, start engine, click on - until reach 0, click Finish, kill engine. When I go back I still find CO is 10.
The bike also exhibits the red warning triangle LED and I can see no code via dashboard diagnostic menus. It remains so even after clearing codes with Guzzidiag..

Please excuse this long winded story and hopefully it is not in the wrong forum thread. I really loved the bike for the few days I was able to ride it, but am beginning to realize may have long time until I am able to ride it again. Since there is no dealer nearby Raleigh, NC - I am out of options and need to fix it myself. I would like to start by at least making sure the ECU is back to it's original map and settings. Any help, suggestions, greatly appreciated.

Best,
Vic

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on November 18, 2015, 02:41:05 PM
Avoid mixing mechanical things and the map. A map doesn't fix things like bad plugs and if you start updating things and in the mix play with the map, you'll accomplish next to nothing.

Load a stock map. Get the tune as good as it gets. Then mess with loading a new map. At this point you don't know what is doing what.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 02:53:00 PM
Avoid mixing mechanical things and the map. A map doesn't fix things like bad plugs and if you start updating things and in the mix play with the map, you'll accomplish next to nothing.

Load a stock map. Get the tune as good as it gets. Then mess with loading a new map. At this point you don't know what is doing what.

Yes I noticed that, I seem to learn the hard way and now I have it all messed up. Being my first, I must have ridden the bike for first 3 thousand miles with this issue thinking it's the way a Guzzi should run at idle.

I have re uploaded the stock map I previously backed up.
I got the successful confirmation.
Then did reset auto-learning parameters and reset TPS.

My two ECU related issues now are  - CO trim not saved when I hit "Finish" and the red little triangle warning is always on. No codes that I can see but I will keep reviewing them maybe I missed some.

Thank you so much for responding, it really means allot to have someone to consult.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 18, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
Welcome to WG, Vic.. never fear.. the Guzzidiag gurus are asleep right now. (England, France, Germany, Australia) Probably in the morning, you'll have some direction.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 18, 2015, 03:08:02 PM
The obvious questions are what is the rest of the tune like and why have you got a service warning?

When you say you have the triangle are you also getting the word 'Service' at the bottom of the dash? If not are you getting a symbol indicating a globe with a cross through it and an arrow? If the latter it means you have an indicator out or a poor connection to one of them.

If you have a 'Service' warning the OBD should tell you what faults are current.

Also the valve clearances must be right, the throttle body balance correct and you have to ascertain whether someone has messed about with the throttle stop screw. The last will cause a host of problems.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 03:12:14 PM
Welcome to WG, Vic.. never fear.. the Guzzidiag gurus are asleep right now. (England, France, Germany, Australia) Probably in the morning, you'll have some direction.
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I realize first step in addressing any of these issues is to remain calm and think clearly.. I kept trying too many things including riding it as it was in hoping would clear the issue. I will check back here often!

Kind regards,
Vic
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on November 18, 2015, 03:19:00 PM
No sleep here.

1. CO setting won't do anything with stock map because lambda circuit does it.  But with stock map I think it should be 0
2. If you clear errors, and you switch bike off and on again you instantly have the red light and errors again? Which do show up in guzzidiag?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 04:09:25 PM
No sleep here.

1. CO setting won't do anything with stock map because lambda circuit does it.  But with stock map I think it should be 0
2. If you clear errors, and you switch bike off and on again you instantly have the red light and errors again? Which do show up in guzzidiag?

Hi Paul,

It is stock map now. I think I can be sure of that because I reused the bin file I created as backup, before changing it.
But CO trim still showing 10 for some reason. And I remember it was 0 before I uploaded the other map.

The codes I received when running really bad and stalling at idle were: 0130 0351 0135 Sunday evening.
This morning also just started in the garage  - I got 0136.

The obvious questions are what is the rest of the tune like and why have you got a service warning?

When you say you have the triangle are you also getting the word 'Service' at the bottom of the dash? If not are you getting a symbol indicating a globe with a cross through it and an arrow? If the latter it means you have an indicator out or a poor connection to one of them.

If you have a 'Service' warning the OBD should tell you what faults are current.

Also the valve clearances must be right, the throttle body balance correct and you have to ascertain whether someone has messed about with the throttle stop screw. The last will cause a host of problems.

Pete

Hi Pete,

You were right, the red triangle warning LED scared me  but I just had removed the left front fairing and had disconnected the turn signal bulb.  I connected it and the red triangle light is now gone.
No one messed with throttle stop screw as far I know. But I am not the first owner so that is all I can do, trust in words.
I am preparing to do my first valve adjust and TB sync, bike had that service about 5,000 miles ago.


This is a small video how the bike runs and stalls

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOqBX0L1MiHiW4aXNSjqAxnshNo65BKUfN7PQt08QDM3N_TlI9pEjPqujwodoKmiw/photo/AF1QipN9BUU4mfOEIvNV4dZGlBfBFaxmWDKGnrOIaKTO?key=dmpjaEpCS09PMVZVX2N1d3M4STVFdTBPSS1vRHdR (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOqBX0L1MiHiW4aXNSjqAxnshNo65BKUfN7PQt08QDM3N_TlI9pEjPqujwodoKmiw/photo/AF1QipN9BUU4mfOEIvNV4dZGlBfBFaxmWDKGnrOIaKTO?key=dmpjaEpCS09PMVZVX2N1d3M4STVFdTBPSS1vRHdR)


Thank you all

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 18, 2015, 04:26:13 PM
Quote
No one messed with throttle stop screw as far I know.
That would be good. Is the paint unbroken?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 05:33:06 PM
That would be good. Is the paint unbroken?
On left throttle body two screws have yellow paint, unbroken. On the right one, I can't see any painted screw.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 18, 2015, 06:03:00 PM
On left throttle body two screws have yellow paint, unbroken. On the right one, I can't see any painted screw.

I am *not* one of the guys that know.. but I think you are ok. If the "sacred screw" had been messed with.. "You're in a whole lot of trouble, boy.."  :smiley:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 18, 2015, 06:23:20 PM
Do you know if your bike is a 2013 build or a 2012? This might be relevant. If a 2012 it may be a flat tappet bike and if the tappets are well worn you will have idling problems due to the change in the duration. Whip a rocker cover off and confirm.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 18, 2015, 06:42:48 PM
Vic.. I know you are new here, and really don't know who is who. Pay no attention to me. Pay attention to Paul and Pete..  :smiley: Trust me..
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
Do you know if your bike is a 2013 build or a 2012? This might be relevant. If a 2012 it may be a flat tappet bike and if the tappets are well worn you will have idling problems due to the change in the duration. Whip a rocker cover off and confirm.

Pete

This may seem silly but , with cover off, where do I need to look to know which ones I have?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 18, 2015, 08:30:15 PM
Roller.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/757/20666596154_7f0da31257_z.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5780/22935959155_22277ee806_c.jpg)

Flat.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5759/20516760602_ee73a0d0d4_z.jpg)

and the two different parts breakdowns.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8193/8352436720_27cdaa7e41.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/8352436698_2a9f4d7841.jpg)

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 09:21:29 PM
(https://mvictor.smugmug.com/photos/i-NBZ4NSm/0/X2/i-NBZ4NSm-X2.jpg)

I just took this picture.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 18, 2015, 09:58:46 PM
OK so it's a roller bike, good. What are the valve clearances set at?

Can you check and see if both air bleeds are open and give us a pic of both the throttle stop screw and bell crank screw?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 10:11:55 PM
OK so it's a roller bike, good. What are the valve clearances set at?

Can you check and see if both air bleeds are open and give us a pic of both the throttle stop screw and bell crank screw?

Pete

Below is a picture of what I think those throttle screws are, I don't know where bell crank screw is or air bleeds.
I am going to try and put it in 6th, spin and find tdc somehow and let you know the clearances.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vFhH8qn/0/X2/i-vFhH8qn-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 10:37:38 PM
\
I am going to try and put it in 6th, spin and find tdc somehow and let you know the clearances.

 will do this tomorrow as soon I can and report back. You have no idea how much I like this bike and what it meant to see it falling apart or not running as it should. Thank you.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 18, 2015, 11:08:44 PM
Can't really see the stop screw, or rather if it's been buggered with. Can you get an Allen key into it? If so it may of been screwed around with. The one pointing to the left is the bell crank screw. This does need to be adjusted from time to time.

There are numerous write ups, probably at least one by me, on this board about how to go about tuning a W5AM equipped Guzzi, do a search.

What is important to realise is that playing with the map will achieve NOTHING unless the engine's tune is correct. The valve clearances MUST be spot on, the throttle bodies balanced correctly and the TPS and trims zeroed otherwise you aren't going to get anywhere.

Valves should be set at 4 & 6 thou cold.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 18, 2015, 11:43:00 PM
Can't really see the stop screw, or rather if it's been buggered with. Can you get an Allen key into it? If so it may of been screwed around with. The one pointing to the left is the bell crank screw. This does need to be adjusted from time to time.

There are numerous write ups, probably at least one by me, on this board about how to go about tuning a W5AM equipped Guzzi, do a search.

What is important to realise is that playing with the map will achieve NOTHING unless the engine's tune is correct. The valve clearances MUST be spot on, the throttle bodies balanced correctly and the TPS and trims zeroed otherwise you aren't going to get anywhere.

Valves should be set at 4 & 6 thou cold.

Pete

Thank you Pete. I will focus on checking and setting valves clearances to 0.1 and 0.2. I think it is. And Tb sync. Valves seem pretty straight forward like on my old GS, TB sync I need to find which exact screw I need to touch. Not much else I know about TPS and trims. so any extra pointers would be great. I do have a feeling this bike has a problem as the PO told me they already replaced left coil, but seems they have not found the issue causing it to run so poor and jumpy at idle. When you see and hear it running it is as if someone cuts power to some parts of it and then it surges back to life, other times it dies and stops.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 19, 2015, 01:32:44 PM
The valve clearances are off a bit as I just checked them.

in mm

Right cylinder:
Intake Upper= 0.1
Intake Lower= 0.07 (very tight)
Exhaust Upper= 0.15
Exhaust Lower= 0.15

Left Cylinder:
Intake Upper= 0.11 (loose)
Intake Lower= 0.09 (tight)
Exhaust Upper= 0.11(very tight)
Exhaust Lower= 0.11 (very tight)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2T7gC6q/0/O/i-2T7gC6q.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WPbhmjf/0/O/i-WPbhmjf.jpg)

I just used a long screwdriver to find TDC and bumped the rear wheel in 6th, as silly this may seem I was not certain the rotation direction of the crank to use a wrench..

I will go ahead and adjust per leafman's documented article here to 0.15 mm and 0.20 mm if you agree.

http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/2012-stelvio-ntx-valve-adjustment-procedure.9176/


Also, is there any recommended value for the Up/Down rocker arm play? They click when moved I'd say less than 0.5 mm and I know on BMW the play is acceptable but can  also loosen some screws and tap the gap tighter with a plastic mallet to make engine run more quiet.


Once adjusted, if the idle cutting and stalling randomly remains, I am afraid I won't be able to do a throttle body sync.
The map is stock and found how to set back CO trim as well to 0 (It seems my problem was Guzzidiag won't adjust CO when sock map is installed since lambda's are ON) so nothing will be altered on EFI side it will be all stock. Any additional thoughts appreciated. I am pretty sure the valve adjustment won't make such huge impact to correct the issue but I would love to be wrong.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 19, 2015, 01:58:46 PM
Roller engine clearances are 0.1 and 0.15. The 8V is very sensitive to valve clearance changes.

Does this dying at idle persist when the engine is warm? Or is it only apparent when cold?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 19, 2015, 02:06:03 PM
Roller engine clearances are 0.1 and 0.15. The 8V is very sensitive to valve clearance changes.

Does this dying at idle persist when the engine is warm? Or is it only apparent when cold?

Pete

It does it both when cold and warm, same exact way. In fact twice by now it happened worse after a few good hours long highway speed run when just pulling out from the gas station after fill-up. The stalling and jumpy idle phenomenon was livable with until recently, in that I was able to feather the throttle when stopped and catch it in case it wanted to stall.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 19, 2015, 02:18:08 PM
I had a Stelvio recently that was cutting out at low speed and it turned out to be one of the fuses under the small triangular panel on the right below the rider's seat. As the power was cutting in and out it triggered a phase sensor error but replacing that didn't cure it. Removing, cleaning and adequately seating the fuses did. Just a suggestion.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 19, 2015, 02:25:56 PM
I had a Stelvio recently that was cutting out at low speed and it turned out to be one of the fuses under the small triangular panel on the right below the rider's seat. As the power was cutting in and out it triggered a phase sensor error but replacing that didn't cure it. Removing, cleaning and adequately seating the fuses did. Just a suggestion.

Pete

I will do - thank you! Where are all the fuse boxes? Is it just below and next to battery or are there more? Also where are the main connectors that I should check the ground wires for ECU and other important ones? Do I need to remove the gas tank?

Many thanks!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 19, 2015, 02:33:35 PM
Some fuses lurk up by the steering head and, on some models, inside the fairing but the ones I had the trouble with are under that small, triangular, plastic panel on the right size of the bike under the seat.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: chaoselephant23 on November 20, 2015, 11:37:37 AM
*** VINDOWS 10 TIP ***
Was having lots of trouble uninstalling drivers for the FTDI chip cable in Vindows 10. I'd uninstall the latest 2.12.06 only to find that 2.10.00 got installed. I just wanted to try 2.08.14. But Vindows kept telling me that an updated version is already installed. A good google search landed me the answer. Here is what you do if you keep getting told by Vindows that an updated version of the driver is already installed:( Or you uninstall drivers only to find Windows installed some drivers for you:(

Go to the Control Panel (right click the Start menu button -> Control Panel). If icons are organized by Category, navigate to System and Security > System > Advanced system settings. If icons are organized by icon, navigate to System -> Advanced system settings. Click on Hardware tab. Click on Device Installation Settings. Say 'No' to 'Do you want to automatically download manufacturer's apps and custom icons available for your devices?'. If using Windows 10 < version 1511, there might be another option that I cannot document as it's on the laptop at home. This will allow you to go to the Device Manager and uninstall the drivesrs for the USB Serial Port and USB Serial Converter items. You can then associate the device with the driver of your choosing without having to reinstall the OS.
*** END TIP ***

Now time for some guidance with getting things working. I have tried unsuccessfully to backup my map with versions 2.08.14 and 2.12.06 of the FTDI chip drivers that were manually installed via the Device Manager. Reader sees the cable on COM3. Click Read. Switch ignition on. Click OK. Reader shows connection 19s, 18s,... Once the countdown is complete, the reader tells me to turn the ignition off. Progress bar never fills up. Turn the ignition off and the program exits. Check the BIN file. Is zero bytes. I know I haven't tried 2.10.00 yet, which I will be this evening. Does this behavior sound like a bad ODBD II cable? The cable is the Triumph for TuneECU cable off Amazon.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 20, 2015, 11:47:59 AM
I also have Amazon USB Cable for Triumph Motorcycle TuneECU Program but no windows 10. I did not have to install any driver, Windows 7 on my cheap Asus laptop picked up a default correct driver and shows on COM 5. Guzzidiag, writer and reader work perfect as such.

My non related question (back to my Stelvio idle woes which remains after an anally accurate valve adjustment) is - what values are relevant that can be logged in real time running mode to a CSV which would help pinpoint an engine idle problem, rpm surging and stalling? I basically want to see either an O2 voltage issue if that was the case, or what other parameters do experts suggest to monitor? The truth o the matter is without an accurate understanding of the symptom - troubleshooting means just parts replacement and visual inspection and wire connectors wiggling.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Vasco DG on November 20, 2015, 02:32:34 PM
And sometimes that is what is needed to isolate the problem.

Really, from half a world away, there isn't much more I can offer in the way of help.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: chaoselephant23 on November 23, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Finally got GuzziDiag working. Turned out to be user error. Misinterpreted the directions the reader gave. Reader said if you hear the fuel pump, restart the program. Since the fuel pump comes on with the kill switch disengaged and key to ignition, I took that to mean turn the key to ignition with the kill switch engaged. Since that will prevent the fuel pump from coming on. But that was not the case. I needed to have the kill switch disengaged before I turned the key to ignition. Found all of this out after creating an Ubuntu virtual machine which exhibited the same behavior as Windows did i.e. Adapter Test succeeds, but Reader or GuzziDiag cannot connect. Frustration forced my hand... and it worked :laugh: Going to try it out on Vindows tonight. The performance of the reader on the VM was un-acceptable. Too many damn bridges to traverse.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on November 23, 2015, 12:23:44 PM
Finally got GuzziDiag working. Turned out to be user error. Misinterpreted the directions the reader gave. Reader said if you hear the fuel pump, restart the program. Since the fuel pump comes on with the kill switch disengaged and key to ignition, I took that to mean turn the key to ignition with the kill switch engaged. Since that will prevent the fuel pump from coming on. But that was not the case. I needed to have the kill switch disengaged before I turned the key to ignition. Found all of this out after creating an Ubuntu virtual machine which exhibited the same behavior as Windows did i.e. Adapter Test succeeds, but Reader or GuzziDiag cannot connect. Frustration forced my hand... and it worked :laugh: Going to try it out on Vindows tonight. The performance of the reader on the VM was un-acceptable. Too many damn bridges to traverse.

 well need to read is once, writing is much faster, 5 minutes
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: chaoselephant23 on November 23, 2015, 03:12:04 PM
well need to read is once, writing is much faster, 5 minutes

I do apologize. I wasn't insinuating that the software is slow. Quite the opposite. My setup is the cause of poor read performance. I am running a VirtualBox VM of Ubuntu 14.04 that is allocated 768MB of RAM and 32MB of display RAM on Windows 10 host on a Dell Latitude e6400 with 2GB of RAM. Already I am in the red as Windows 10 normally takes 1GB of RAM. Doesn't leave much for the VM. Then to make matters worse, there is an additional bridge between the ECU and the software. ECU is connected to the FTDI chip cable. FTDI chip cable is connected to the USB Hub. USB Hub is then bridged to the VM via VirtualBox's USB Serial Converter driver, the extra bridge. Which is finally routed to the software via libftd2xx. On a machine of worth, I don't think the additional bridge would penalize me much. But since I have a 7 year old laptop, it really hurts :sad:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dracula on November 23, 2015, 07:06:44 PM
And sometimes that is what is needed to isolate the problem.

Really, from half a world away, there isn't much more I can offer in the way of help.

Pete

Hi Pete,
I really do appreciate your input as well as everyone else's. I was not expecting miracles, just some pointers of advice. Your advice got me started in the right direction - adjusting valves to be spot on, and bringing the map back to stock. I think I sorted it out, did allot of things. I changed both spark plugs, wires and caps, and one ignition coil that was throwing the code. Checked all fuse blocks and unplugged the ECU then plugged it back to ensure it has good contacts. Changed air filter. Changed fuel filter. The bike now seems fine. runs better than it ever did since I got it.. Again, thanks so much everyone.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on January 17, 2016, 09:28:16 AM
Can anyone tell me if DucatiDiag is still available for download or do you just use the IAWDiag and choose the correct ECU.  I have a friend that is interested in it but I can seem to find the downloads other than some old references that it is not available.  The XDF are still on the Guzzidiag site for Ducati so assuming it is still living somewhere. 

Have not really followed the Ducatidiag story so apologies if it is well known information. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Andrew_C on January 20, 2016, 02:37:25 AM
OK - Klutz here so be gentle (and I've not read all 25 pages of this thread!)  Bike was running fine until I tried to jump start it when my battery died earlier in the autumn; I strongly suspect I've broken something.

Got the software - got the cable -got it connected to my Breva 750.

Got data too!  So far so good.  However, I can see that the TPS is way off.  Where I'm stuck is the reset.  I can go to the Actors page, but with the engine off, the Actors is greyed out, but accessible with it running.  Clicking gives me an error.

Any kind souls offer any advise?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Andrew_C/Bike/basic_zpsdr6fjy88.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Andrew_C/Bike/error_zps82ybwrql.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Andrew_C/media/Bike/error_zps82ybwrql.jpg.html)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 20, 2016, 07:47:22 AM

Got data too!  So far so good.  However, I can see that the TPS is way off.  Where I'm stuck is the reset.  I can go to the Actors page, but with the engine off, the Actors is greyed out, but accessible with it running.  Clicking gives me an error.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Andrew_C/Bike/error_zps82ybwrql.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Andrew_C/media/Bike/error_zps82ybwrql.jpg.html)

 when you fresh connect, with engine off, and then goto the actors page, is still all greyed out?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 20, 2016, 07:51:01 AM
Can anyone tell me if DucatiDiag is still available for download or do you just use the IAWDiag and choose the correct ECU.  I have a friend that is interested in it but I can seem to find the downloads other than some old references that it is not available.  The XDF are still on the Guzzidiag site for Ducati so assuming it is still living somewhere. 

Have not really followed the Ducatidiag story so apologies if it is well known information.

what ecu does he have?
But iaw-diag should do it. and for 15m and 5am the normal reader writers. For 5.9m the writer is nearing completion, and the reader is there.
On the downwload page I posted a number of ducati xdf files, but the good guys at Ducati  make a different ecu layout for almost any bike. Sometimes using a bike that is near specs works. 

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Andrew_C on January 20, 2016, 07:52:18 AM
when you fresh connect, with engine off, and then goto the actors page, is still all greyed out?
I'll try to look tonight.  Might be to darned cold though...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Andrew_C on January 20, 2016, 01:24:24 PM
Yep.  Greyed out.  Tried a download of the .bin file (Map I assume?), but it seems to be empty.  And it took seconds, not minutes!

I don't like the smell of this...

Edit:-

Had another go.  This time, I got the Actors - TPS reset, clicked and got Actors OK.  Throttle still says 7.9

HOLD THE PHONE!!

If I try the other throttle reading it says 3.1 - as it should.

Too dark and cold to try it out now; here's hoping for tomorrow morning!  Thanks all.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Kiwi Dave on January 20, 2016, 01:55:39 PM
I could be completely wrong here, but doesn't the TPS on a Breva 750 have slots to allow for manual adjustment?  I was once fooled by TechnoResearch documentation describing how to read and reset the TPS using the "Alfalin_0" channel.  This was for a California Vintage.

After much frustration I found the TPS had to be adjusted manually the old fashioned way, i.e. rotated to read 150 mV with throttle screw out and linkages removed, and then winding the throttle up to the prescribed amount (for the Vintage, this is 485 mV).

The Breva 750 uses the same Magneti Marelli IAW 15RC ECU.  I suggest you check for adjusting slots on the TPS.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 20, 2016, 02:00:54 PM
I could be completely wrong here, but doesn't the TPS on a Breva 750 have slots to allow for manual adjustment?  I was once fooled by TechnoResearch documentation describing how to read and reset the TPS using the "Alfalin_0" channel.  This was for a California Vintage.

After much frustration I found the TPS had to be adjusted manually the old fashioned way, i.e. rotated to read 150 mV with throttle screw out and linkages removed, and then winding the throttle up to the prescribed amount (for the Vintage, this is 485 mV).

The Breva 750 uses the same Magneti Marelli IAW 15RC ECU.  I suggest you check for adjusting slots on the TPS.

 Well yes breva 750 and cali vintage share same ecu. But breva has linear tps, and no adjustment slots, the cali has a logarithmic tps that should be manual adjusted.

And a great problem was it when you had gotten technoresearch to reset your cali tps. It's very hard to get it working again. So in Guzzidiag you can't reset tps on a cali vintage but you can on a breva 750.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on January 20, 2016, 03:44:54 PM
Yep.  Greyed out.  Tried a download of the .bin file (Map I assume?), but it seems to be empty.  And it took seconds, not minutes!

I don't like the smell of this...

Edit:-

Had another go.  This time, I got the Actors - TPS reset, clicked and got Actors OK.  Throttle still says 7.9

HOLD THE PHONE!!

If I try the other throttle reading it says 3.1 - as it should.

Too dark and cold to try it out now; here's hoping for tomorrow morning!  Thanks all.

 But what is exactly wrong with the bike?

Look at my youtube movie for some injection values, there you can see when and how the lambda works/should work.

 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Andrew_C on January 21, 2016, 02:28:40 AM
But what is exactly wrong with the bike?
Nothing.  Now.

Worked a treat, bike running fine!  Still cold mind you...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on January 21, 2016, 04:54:47 PM
what ecu does he have?
But iaw-diag should do it. and for 15m and 5am the normal reader writers. For 5.9m the writer is nearing completion, and the reader is there.
On the downwload page I posted a number of ducati xdf files, but the good guys at Ducati  make a different ecu layout for almost any bike. Sometimes using a bike that is near specs works.

Thank Paul, not sure which ECU but will find out and pass on your note.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on February 05, 2016, 07:29:38 AM
OK Chaps

I've just ploughed through all the threads on this message and realised that while I understand the principles of all this its very "involved" and I'm keen not to create a rod for my own back!!

I don't have (yet) any need/desire to change any of the mapping on my 2005 V1100 Breva, but I do want to be able to reset the TPS and view parameters as needed as part of normal servicing of the bike.

So, using GuzziDaig alone, can I cock things up so bad that its not recoverable back to stock?

Cheers

Tris

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tudorgates on February 05, 2016, 08:34:13 AM
Let me start by saying that with Paul's guidance and using one of Beetles, maps my Stelvio is running absolutely fantastic. No vibes, better mileage and a much smoother power delivery. But now that the cold weather is upon us I have one little niggle.
1st start from cold, it fires instantly, then sometimes dies. If I catch it on the throttle, and manage to keep it running for 10 seconds, all is ok. Otherwise i go through this cycle of start/stall/start/stall until I do catch it(only 1st start and only on cold mornings)
If it were an old carb'd engine I would say it needed a bit more choke.
So . . .
As it runs so perfectly i don't want to mess with the main map, but I notice there is a warmup map when viewed in Tunerpro
Do those who know more than me (everyone!!) think that by upping the fueling within the warmup map will help me, and if so by how much? 1 point? 5 points? in every box?
Hope my question makes sense.
Cheers
Des
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on February 05, 2016, 09:14:36 AM
Let me start by saying that with Paul's guidance and using one of Beetles, maps my Stelvio is running absolutely fantastic. No vibes, better mileage and a much smoother power delivery. But now that the cold weather is upon us I have one little niggle.
1st start from cold, it fires instantly, then sometimes dies. If I catch it on the throttle, and manage to keep it running for 10 seconds, all is ok. Otherwise i go through this cycle of start/stall/start/stall until I do catch it(only 1st start and only on cold mornings)
If it were an old carb'd engine I would say it needed a bit more choke.
So . . .
As it runs so perfectly i don't want to mess with the main map, but I notice there is a warmup map when viewed in Tunerpro
Do those who know more than me (everyone!!) think that by upping the fueling within the warmup map will help me, and if so by how much? 1 point? 5 points? in every box?

My 2009 still has the stock map, and does the exact same thing. But only around a temperature of 60F. When it is colder out, or hotter, it actually starts fine. It acts like it is just a touch lean at only that temp.
I was going to try to richen that warmup map, but never got around to it. It runs fine other then that one hiccup.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Meinolf on February 05, 2016, 10:29:33 AM
Hi Des,

As it runs so perfectly i don't want to mess with the main map, but I notice there is a warmup map when viewed in Tunerpro
Do those who know more than me (everyone!!) think that by upping the fueling within the warmup map will help me, and if so by how much? 1 point? 5 points? in every box?

I haven't researched the 5AM, but am familiar with the 15M. The warmup map values are factors applied to the values in the fuel maps. I assume that the same applies to the 5AM.

If the issue only appears at a certain ambient/engine temperature you can change the values in the warmup map at that temperature or temperature range.

If the engine fires up well but dies after x revolutions, you can limit the changes to the cells which apply after the # of revolutions (your guesstimate). On the 15M the standard value during which the warmup function is active is 4000 revolutions after (every) start.

Increasing the values in steps of 5% or so until it starts reliably would help you in ascertaining that the problem lies in the warmup map.

Cheers
Meinolf
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 05, 2016, 02:09:00 PM
Des, forget the warm-up table. What ambient temps are we talking about? I would look at the pressure-air-temp table or the fuel-engine-temp table.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 05, 2016, 02:10:43 PM
Tris: No. :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on February 05, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
Tris: No. :thumb:

Cheers Beetle - the succinct answer I needed   :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tudorgates on February 06, 2016, 04:58:04 AM
Thanks for the replies.
The ambient temp is about 7-8 Celsius (44-46F)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 06, 2016, 06:36:25 AM
Remind me again which map you are running.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tudorgates on February 07, 2016, 04:17:10 AM
The file name I have is   Stelvio-8V-FU2-2Lambda-58B4.2015.04.04.bin
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 07, 2016, 05:28:59 AM
That's an old map. I've PM'd you a link to download the latest 2 lambda map. Should fix your issue.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tudorgates on February 07, 2016, 06:23:57 AM
Cheers, I'll give it a try.
It'll have to go some to beat the last one, the bike runs fantastic with that one!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 07, 2016, 02:32:29 PM
It has no major differences, just some refinements. It will give better cold start performance, however.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: welshrob on February 07, 2016, 03:11:21 PM
Many thanks for this EXTREMELY helpful thread and tutorial. I`ve used TuneECU for several years on various Triumphs and TigerTool on my current Triumph Tiger Explorer1200, ths GuzziDiag seems similar, although it has extra features which Tune ECU doesn`t.

I have had the pipes bored out on my V7 Classic and I was told by everyone that that the only answer was a PC, so I`m  delighted to find this thread. Accidentally, I might add, it should be a sticky!

I`d prefer not to fine tune the fuelling and ignition, so does anyone have a map ready made that I can download, for a 2009 V7 Classic with pipes?

I`m not looking to turn it into a fire breathing monster, just get it running correctly. It pops a lot on the overrun which obviously means it is running weak and it won`t tick over until it the motor is fully warmed up and I`d like to fix this.

Thanks in advance.   :smiley:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on February 20, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Still no joy. The writer program cannot find any map on my Mac, not even the stock map that I just saved with the reader program. Latest software. Latest MacBook. Hmm...

UPDATE: See below.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Cool Runnings on February 20, 2016, 03:54:07 PM
Still no joy. The writer program cannot find any map on my Mac, not even the stock map that I just saved with the reader program. Latest software. Latest MacBook. Hmm...

Doesn't surprise me at all. At least it still runs without a ton of error codes.  :evil:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on February 20, 2016, 03:58:51 PM
Doesn't surprise me at all. At least it still runs without a ton of error codes.  :evil:

It does surprise me. Many others, apparently all running PC laptops, have had no troubles loading new maps. Even though there is a Mac version of the writer program, it simply cannot see any map files anywhere on my Mac.

This is the same trouble that I encountered last summer, only with older versions of the software. Consequently, I stuck with the stock map and simply allowed the ECU to trim around my Agostini silencer. To its credit, it did a fair job of enriching the air-fuel mixture.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuguzzi on February 20, 2016, 04:02:02 PM
Can you put the map onto an external storage device and see if you can point to it? Just guessing as I use PCs.

You can probably find a dirt cheap Windows laptop on CL. Use it just for GuzziDiag.

Panasonic Toughbook laptops are great for that, cheap too.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on February 20, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Can you put the map onto an external storage device and see if you can point to it? Just guessing as I use PCs.

You can probably find a dirt cheap Windows laptop on CL. Use it just for GuzziDiag.

Panasonic Toughbook laptops are great for that, cheap too.

Those are good ideas.

As for the external storage device/thumb drive, the GuuziDiag writer program navigates just fine to where the .bin map files are located; it just does not see them. Consequently, I am not sure an e thermal device would help. Still, I'll give it a try (another day, as I am going for a ride now).

UPDATE: Now that I have disconnected everything and am looking at the writer program at my kitchen table, I see the .bin maps! Back outside to try it again!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on February 20, 2016, 04:54:31 PM
SUCCESS!!! Finally, it worked.  I installed the latest Norge map, reset the TPS, reset the learning parameters, and adjusted the CO trim upwards from 0 to +5. I will give it a try and see how it does!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 20, 2016, 05:38:02 PM
Jeff, I can add anti-popping to that map if you like.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on February 20, 2016, 07:22:21 PM
Jeff, I can add anti-popping to that map if you like.

That would be great!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: JeffOlson on February 22, 2016, 11:04:14 AM
Another UPDATE (as posted elsewhere): The new Norge map with anti-pop is awesome! Thank you, Beetle!

The Norge runs like a different bike. Power everywhere, no bucking or lurching, no audible popping on deceleration. The engine doesn't mind lower RPMs now, and it races forward smoothly as the RPMs climb like my old Ducati ST2 did. I am happy! (Too bad motorcycle manufacturers cannot get away with making their bikes run properly from the factory, what with emissions controls...)

I am going to ride to Eugene and back today from the Portland area and give it more of a workout, but after 20+ miles this morning, I feel like a have a new, smoother, and more powerful bike.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Droydx on February 22, 2016, 04:30:46 PM
On my 2003 V11,  hooked up all the cables and am running GuzziDiag.   GuzziDiag is connected and reading values, everything seems to be working fine with the exception of CO trim function.  When I go to use it, follow instructions to start engine, and hit the engine start button, I get the message "Active Diagnostics could not be started".  I have heard that other V11 15m ecu  have been able to adjust their CO trim (mine is at -25 right now and I would like to zero this) .  I am able to run everything else that GuzziDiag does for the 15M, just not the CO trim.

Does anybody have any suggestions to get this function up and running? 

Thanks!  Andy
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 22, 2016, 04:40:47 PM
Just a gentle nudge. To everyone that has great running bikes because of WG, a small donation to the cause seems appropriate. Naturally, a donation to GuzziDiag is, too.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on February 22, 2016, 06:05:45 PM
On my 2003 V11,  hooked up all the cables and am running GuzziDiag.   GuzziDiag is connected and reading values, everything seems to be working fine with the exception of CO trim function.  When I go to use it, follow instructions to start engine, and hit the engine start button, I get the message "Active Diagnostics could not be started".  I have heard that other V11 15m ecu  have been able to adjust their CO trim (mine is at -25 right now and I would like to zero this) .  I am able to run everything else that GuzziDiag does for the 15M, just not the CO trim.

Does anybody have any suggestions to get this function up and running? 

Thanks!  Andy

I'm not an expert, if I remember right I had the same problem. This is a 15M right? Until an expert comes along, try this.

Bike off. Connect with guzzi diag and follow the key on prompt. Make sure all is well. Then go to the CO trim and follow the prompts to start the engine. Also I think the engine temp needs to be at 60C or you will  get another error.

Hope this helps,
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Droydx on February 23, 2016, 06:53:31 PM
I'm not an expert, if I remember right I had the same problem. This is a 15M right? Until an expert comes along, try this.

Bike off. Connect with guzzi diag and follow the key on prompt. Make sure all is well. Then go to the CO trim and follow the prompts to start the engine. Also I think the engine temp needs to be at 60C or you will  get another error.

Hope this helps,
Tom

Ok so the CO trim does work on guzzi diag with 15 M ecu's.  This is pretty much the procedure I've been following, including warming the engine up to 60 c.  I'll give it another shot, but I'm not hopeful.  I've turned off my laptops firewall, and virus protection too.
Hmmmmmm????

Thanks much!

Andy
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on February 23, 2016, 08:24:34 PM
I have a 2004 Cali EV Touring, 15M, stock map. I know that I've had the same error message, just can't remember "how" it came up. Just another thought. When you shut the bike off, "just" use the key switch unless the program tells you otherwise. I may do some work on my bike in a day or two. I'll try to get that error to come up again and remember how to fix it and let you know. At least on my bike I know it was something simple in the sequence I did things or the model/version of the bike I was using.

Hopefully, someone that knows why that error comes up will chime in and solve your problem.

Good luck!
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on February 24, 2016, 11:17:02 PM
If this doesn't help, you might want to start a new thread of like GuzziDiag and my (model bike) with 15m and CO trim issue.

So...

Let's say you connected the cables to the bike and started GD and all is working fine with Key on and engine off. Then you started the bike to see the stats and all is fine. And then went to the CO Trim while following the prompts to turn engine off. Hit the Start button on the screen and then got the error.

Well..

Here is how I got the error to come up:

Started GD and followed prompts. Started bike to see temp and all. Went to CO trim while bike was running. GD told me to turn off. I did. While still in the CO screen, tried to get the CO Trim to work with the Start button on the screen... Got the same error you did.

Best as I can tell: When you turn off the bike at the kill switch or the key switch while GD is running, it shuts off GD. GD looks like it's still connected as far the the screen looks while engine off, at least the File/Disconnect is looking like it's connected. IT IS NOT CONNECTED after you use the switch or key to shut down.

You must use the File/Disconnect and then File/Reconnect with the Engine and Key off and follow the key on prompts. Then go to CO Trim and follow the Engine Start prompts.

Hope this has a clear explanation and it helps!! It not follow the first line above. Good luck!!
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Meinolf on February 24, 2016, 11:26:50 PM
Hi,

apart from following the procedure of GuzziDiag two conditions must be met to change CO trim. All errors must be cleared and the engine temperature must above 80C.

Check if both are met by looking into the stored error section and clear them and select the engine temp display if the necessary temperature is reached.

Cheers
Meinolf
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 25, 2016, 01:56:48 AM
And to add to that, the tps value at idle must not be to wrong, much to low f.i.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on February 27, 2016, 10:44:43 AM
Without having to search around, anyone have a copy of a 2012+ Griso with a Zard exhaust. Still need to confirm if it has roller Tappets or not so will take it both ways if you have it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Scottv8 on February 28, 2016, 01:40:50 PM
Hello all,
total newbie to the forum, been browsing for a while and reading posts with interest.

I have a 2008 Stelvio and have bought the Lonelec leads, downloaded the reader, writer and diagnostic programmes.
I have had a little play although I am way out of my depth to be changing anything too complicated.

Not sure if I really need to mess about with any mapping as the bike seems to run well and pull strong, although I have never ridden any other Guzzi so I have nothing to compare it to apart from my Hayabusa and KTM 640 which are totally different animals in their own inimitable ways  :evil:

I had a Triumph Tiger last, which had a map change along with a free flow exhaust.
The change was quite dramatic in a nice way, with more torque and more smoother revvy power.

The Stelvio does seem a little snatchy at low revs, round town / in traffic etc, but I expect that's due to the final drive layout?

The only engine mod I have is a K&N panel filter running without the rubber snorkel fitted (sounds a bit more growly)  :grin:

What would everyone suggest, leave it or map it?

I have read about the Lambda switch off making things a little smoother, guess I need to change a map for that on Tunerpro? which looks MASSIVELY complicated to a simpleton like me  :undecided:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 28, 2016, 02:10:14 PM
First thing I would do is put a stock filter back in, and reset the auto-learning parameters.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 28, 2016, 02:51:06 PM
and to switch lambda off, I made a youtube screencapture that shows it. Next to the writen guide that Beetle has made.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 28, 2016, 03:31:23 PM
Scott, welcome to WG  :smiley: and pay attention to the above two guys..
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Scottv8 on February 28, 2016, 04:06:05 PM
Hello Chuck,
thank you all for the prompt response.
Yes I have very quickly realised these are the chaps that are the gurus here :grin:

Stock filter you say?
Ok, will do, I expected a K&N would be good for it, did I waste my hard earned on that one?.
I have had the TB balanced by a dealer last week (although I have got the tools to do it myself now), the TPS is all good and I have reset the auto learning duberry.

So stock filter back in and lambda off, you reckon thats about as good as i need with a standard bike?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 28, 2016, 04:37:18 PM
It should certainly get rid of the snatchiness 'bout town.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't even use the K&N to filter my tea. It's good for keeping the big rocks out. The stock filter uses the same material as the 140HP Tuono, so it's more than capable of supplying the air your Stelvio needs.

Worthwhile checking the play in your throttle cables too. Too much slack won't be helping.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on February 28, 2016, 10:52:21 PM
Hello Chuck,
thank you all for the prompt response.
Yes I have very quickly realised these are the chaps that are the gurus here :grin:

Stock filter you say?
Ok, will do, I expected a K&N would be good for it, did I waste my hard earned on that one?.
I have had the TB balanced by a dealer last week (although I have got the tools to do it myself now), the TPS is all good and I have reset the auto learning duberry.

So stock filter back in and lambda off, you reckon thats about as good as i need with a standard bike?

Not wishing to appear smart but why did you assume that a K&N would be 'Good for it'? There are a lot of false assumptions made on principles that are no longer relevant with *Modern* motor designs. Its one of the huge bug-bears of trying to convince people about getting their machines to run well, there is this repository of *Knowledge* and a lot of it is no longer relevant or just plain wrong.

Especially with the Guzzi 8V the peculiarities of its head design and cam timing mean that all of the preconceived ideas about 'Freeing up the flow' and other such amorphous nonsense go straight out the window. In fact 'Freeing it up' is actually in many ways counter productive as it simply encourages poor VE and waste of fuel. It doesn't seem to matter a jot how many times we state this though or how many stellar reviews Mark receives for his maps built using these principles there are people who just *KNOW* that flinging in a rock strainer and opening up the exhaust will turn a Guzzi 8V into a 'Bussa Beater!

If your bike is a 2008 my first suggestion would be to ensure its rollerised ASAP if it hasn't been already as any mods you make will be worth squat if it shits its top end big time. After that? Read up and study. Couple that with deciding what you are actually hoping to achieve and you'll be able to make your Stelvio run like a champ without wasting money on a whole bunch of silly, oft damaging, crap that won't make your bike perform one iota better than it will stock but will drink fuel and wear itself out quicker.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Scottv8 on February 29, 2016, 02:59:37 AM
All received and understood chaps, thank you :bow:
Im sure all these things have been covered millions of times before and i guess it gets frustrating for you when newbies come along asking the same old questions and coming up with the same wrong ideas over and over again..........sorr y bout that :sad:
So, yeah, with your recommendations in mind, i'm going back on the paper filter and maybe see what Lambda off is like....... :grin:

I guess the rubber 'snorkel' removal was a bad idea as well?

I took these ideas from the Yam XT660 that I had last, it was 'forum Guru' suggestion to me that K&N main filter, K&N side cover filter and snorkel removal was the way to go for smoother torquey power, and it did seem to work on that engine. As you rightly point out the V twin is a different beast.

I have always put K&N replacement panel filters in my cars, not for any particular power increase reason as im not really into fast cars, just seemed like a universally renown, reuseable, save the world type of good idea.

With regards to my bikes, not looking for balls out power and speed from the Stelvio, that's what I got the Hayabusa for :evil: Just a smooth, reliable torquey, everyday rider.

I have adjusted the throttle cables and am about to whip off the rocker covers to see whats inside.
It had cams etc changed under warranty in 2012 by a previous owner. and I would expect they were replaced with like for like.
I have just spent 900 on the crank shaft oil leak, so rollers may have to wait a while :sad:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 29, 2016, 03:17:31 AM
I will permit the snorkel removal.  :laugh:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Scottv8 on February 29, 2016, 08:08:54 AM
ok, cool, thank you :bow:
as long as it dont have any detrimental effect, no point otherwise  :grin:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 29, 2016, 02:56:52 PM
I recommend the removal of the snorkel on the Griso. Dyno tests have shown it improves midrange torque. No reason to believe it won't do the same for the Stelvio.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on February 29, 2016, 04:53:16 PM
Take a look at the stelvio airbox from 2009 or newer, it was said to deliver more midrange in contrast with the 2008 stelvio(= griso) airbox. Mounting is the same battery comes in different, but that shouldn't be a problem. The intake tubes come in quite different.

Worth a try when you have one. (like in Pete's salvage stelvio)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on March 01, 2016, 10:07:39 PM
Yeah, if you want to experiment let me know, I have the airbox out of the crashed shitter.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: oldbike54 on March 01, 2016, 10:10:46 PM
I recommend the removal of the snorkel on the Griso. Dyno tests have shown it improves midrange torque. No reason to believe it won't do the same for the Stelvio.

 UH OH , slippery slope there Mark  :laugh:

 Dusty
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 01, 2016, 10:47:37 PM
The usual set of trolls haven't called me out on it yet.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on March 01, 2016, 10:58:27 PM
9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1............

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 02, 2016, 02:38:31 AM
Yeah, if you want to experiment let me know, I have the airbox out of the crashed shitter.

Pete

Before ripping the old out, look at the tank shape there. could be that it is such a close fit that the newer doesn't fit.
In the stelvio I just could swap it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 05, 2016, 04:30:23 PM
I've been following this helpful thread for the last few months after getting my first fuel injected bike that suffers a stumble around 2-3000 rpm. I'd adjusted the valves, balanced TB's etc to no avail so decided to get the cables and have a look at what's going on.

Mine is a 99 California special with the 15m ecu. It has staintunes and a K&N filter (which i'll probably replace with a stock one after reading the comments above)

I came to the conclusion that my TPS was failing so ordered one from cycleworks ( PF3C replica ) and after removing the old one I found it to be a bit tight and notchy compared to the new one that moves fluidly, so I think I made the right call by replacing that.

After all the TPS reset ( 150mv ), TB balance etc. I took it for a spin around the block and the bike was running extremely lean, stumbling while cruising, crackling and popping on deceleration. So I modified the CO trim from +5 to +10 and took it for another spin still carrying on just as bad it seemed. So to cut a long story short I have settled on +80 CO trim for now and it seems to have solved the lean condition. I could probably back it off a bit as I jumped from +45 to +80 after getting sick of mucking about with it.

My question is:
1. Because I have modified the CO trim by such a large amount ( +80 ), should I replace the map or will everything be OK for the next 200,000 kilometers on that map (I know absolutely nothing about Fuel injection mapping)
2. Does anyone have a modified map to suit my conditions (Staintune mufflers, K&N filter, Australian model)

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 05, 2016, 04:35:53 PM
I think the tps is set wrong. The 150 mv is measured in the state that the butterfly is completely closed. That is when the choke and all stops are out, so no air can pass.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 05, 2016, 04:53:57 PM
Thanks for the reply paul. I can go back and double check it but I did the balance exactly according to brad the bike boys page on http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/throttle-position-sensor-setting_21.html and I had the choke completely backed off with some slack. also I backed off the butterfly stop so there was a gap (with the arm removed that controls the other butterfly) and I rotated the butterfly a few times to make sure it came back to that position.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 05, 2016, 05:40:04 PM
The butterfly was closing the tube? After setting the 150 mv, you should never touch the tps.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 05, 2016, 06:19:09 PM
I assume it was as the stop screw was fully wound out with a gap and nothing else was restricting it. Once I had the TPS at 150 I locked it off and didn't move it again, I checked it after I'd locked it off and made sure it stayed there.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 05, 2016, 07:53:12 PM
Did you use GuzziDiag to measure the voltage, or a digital meter? I would use a meter.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 05, 2016, 08:05:12 PM
Hi beetle, I used a  multimeter with a pair of small pop rivets poking into the back of the connector to get the reading. .
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 05, 2016, 08:08:42 PM
Pop rivets? Did you zero the meter across the rivets first?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 06, 2016, 02:31:22 AM
No I didn't, I'll get some thick copper strands and see if I get the same reading. I used the rivets because that shown in a picture on one of the other guzzi forums.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 06, 2016, 04:08:22 AM
Good idea. I'm not sold on the efficacy of using pop rivets. :laugh:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Kiwi Dave on March 06, 2016, 12:31:00 PM
Good idea. I'm not sold on the efficacy of using pop rivets. :laugh:

I use sewing needles.  How efficacious are these?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on March 06, 2016, 01:07:46 PM
Either 1 paperclip cut in half or two paperclips.

Just a tip, when you slide the item of your choice down next to the wire, have the connector plug loose. Then you can test your connection to the pins in the plug and make sure it's touching the wire.

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 07, 2016, 01:37:38 AM
all stops are out

Well, this is embarrassing. I've only just had a chance this afternoon to have a look at the bike again. I figured I had done something wrong somewhere along the line and there it was. I didn't realise the left hand throttle stop screw was domed, I used the torch on my phone to look at it originally and could see (what I thought was a gap) it wasn't, I looked harder with a proper torch this afternoon and found it was still slightly touching after I backed it out to 150mv. I double checked the current MV with some thick copper wire and it was still at 150MV, backed the screw off probably another half turn or so and there it was 113mv, so I back it out a bit more, gave the butterfly a few flicks and twists to make sure it was seating properly and then set it all again. Dropped the CO trim to +5 and I'll take it for a spin tomorrow to see how it all panned out.

So I want to say thank you to Paul, Beetle, KiwiDave and Tom for your input and apologies for wasting your time. Though I hope someone else may come across this post if they're having the same issue and it solves their problem for them.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 07, 2016, 08:27:45 AM
Esmae,

Glad you had a second look at it. The learning curve is at a different time for everyone. The purpose of Guzzidiag was educating people to understand EFI on a Guzzi.

 Let us know how it runs now.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 07, 2016, 12:46:03 PM
Thanks Paul, I'm getting my head around it now. Not completely, just enough to get me in trouble.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 08, 2016, 03:24:28 PM
I ended up still having to turn the co trim up to 30 so I decided to pull the throttle bodies out and give them a clean. They weren't too bad. No large deposits but still grubby with a  sticky black film. I found that the rubber boot on the airbox that the intake tube goes into was folded over without the tube in it. I wonder if that has had much impact on airflow and tune.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on March 11, 2016, 05:16:15 AM
OK I'm back again. Thanks again for the suggestions and help with this. This is where I'm currently at.

I removed the throttle bodies a couple of nights ago and found they were a bit grubby but not the worst according to google images. I went through the whole ordeal of setting them back up again and reset the TPS to 150mv, I noticed when I would back off the butterfly stop completely that the butterfly at its fully closed position would kind of stick in place with some slight (very slight, not opened fully and letting the spring force it back) flicking. Is this where I "baseline" (150mv) the tps or do i just gently let it come back to closed position?

I had previously adjusted the valves to their correct clearances and changed the plugs just in case.

I balanced the throttle bodies again and took it for a test ride(s) after several test rides today I have again had to settle on a CO trim of +30

Am I still not getting the TPS set right? Keep in mind I have an aftermarket set of staintune mufflers and a K&N filter.

If I am right it looks like it's time to start looking at beetles tutorial on using tunerpro to richen things up a bit.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on March 11, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
This is what I do. I typically do NOT bother with the 150mv baseline.

With that 15M ECU:
1) Set the air screws open 1/2 turn. Do not touch them again.
2) Set the CO to zero.
3) Set the idle screws for a balanced idle that is close to 1100 RPM (1060 by the book). Keep the TPS close to 3.6 degrees as you adjust the idle screws. You may need to repeat the idle screw/TPS set back and forth two or three times. Easy to do with GuzziDiag.
4) Set the high speed balance.

The end. Never back out the idle screw/set to 150mv nonsense again. You don't see people on CARC bikes backing out idle screws. In fact it is 'forbidden'.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on March 11, 2016, 04:50:11 PM
Whatever makes it run good.

But the carc bikes don't set the tps but do a ecu reset to mark the closed throttle point. They have a linear tps so can do that.   
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Droydx on March 22, 2016, 04:39:05 PM
Tom,

Thanks much for your clear description!  It worked like a charm. It took me a while to try it out but all is well here now with a reset of CO trim to zero.  Woot!  :grin:

Andy




If this doesn't help, you might want to start a new thread of like GuzziDiag and my (model bike) with 15m and CO trim issue.

So...

Let's say you connected the cables to the bike and started GD and all is working fine with Key on and engine off. Then you started the bike to see the stats and all is fine. And then went to the CO Trim while following the prompts to turn engine off. Hit the Start button on the screen and then got the error.

Well..

Here is how I got the error to come up:

Started GD and followed prompts. Started bike to see temp and all. Went to CO trim while bike was running. GD told me to turn off. I did. While still in the CO screen, tried to get the CO Trim to work with the Start button on the screen... Got the same error you did.

Best as I can tell: When you turn off the bike at the kill switch or the key switch while GD is running, it shuts off GD. GD looks like it's still connected as far the the screen looks while engine off, at least the File/Disconnect is looking like it's connected. IT IS NOT CONNECTED after you use the switch or key to shut down.

You must use the File/Disconnect and then File/Reconnect with the Engine and Key off and follow the key on prompts. Then go to CO Trim and follow the Engine Start prompts.

Hope this has a clear explanation and it helps!! It not follow the first line above. Good luck!!
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on March 22, 2016, 05:47:40 PM
Glad to hear that helped!!

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 14, 2016, 03:46:53 AM
Hi gents I have GuzziDiag downloaded cant get it to work the light comes on but tells me not connected , also downloaded a driver CDMv2.08.30 its a zip file how and where do I put it?

Tony
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 14, 2016, 05:24:31 AM
Disconnect the cable and close any GuzziDiag apps that are open. Unzip the drivers in a temporary folder and double click on the CDMxxxxxCertified.e xe file.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 14, 2016, 05:32:19 AM
I made up a folder then I extract to that folder then unzip now have 8 files...
which one?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 14, 2016, 06:45:04 AM
CDM v2.08.30 WHQL Certified.exe
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 14, 2016, 07:04:10 AM
OK I think I have done it , how can I check 1st with out plugging to bike?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 14, 2016, 07:12:50 AM
You can use the adapter test: CLICKY (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/AdapterTest_V1.01.zip)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 14, 2016, 07:24:48 AM
I got a time out :{
Still Not connected.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on April 14, 2016, 02:59:28 PM
Do you have your ignition on and kill switch on (not started just on, ready to start?)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 01:14:24 AM
Yes its on ready to go ...
Do these drivers work with Windows 10?
Giving me a bloody headache trying to get it going.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 02:03:36 AM
New update...not sure how but I rode the bike for 2mins and now the red triangle light and SERVICE has disappeared..
Still like to know why I cant connect to Guggidiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 03:37:33 AM
Make sure you have selected the right com port. There could be multiple com ports.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 04:02:17 AM
I have the right com port  I did check .
Anything else?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 04:36:19 AM
Any virus software running? Firewall? Have you tried running it as administrator?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 05:10:44 AM
Yes firewall turned of , haven't tryed with Admin ...

Do it now stay tuned...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 05:19:16 AM
Bugger tried with Admin still no good...
will the drives work with windows 10?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 05:24:58 AM
These are the cables I have!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121697804134?_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261923603742?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true
Was told they work fine!
Guzzidiag still shows not not connected
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 05:47:36 AM
Can you check to see if my Com and drivers are working, looks ok to me..
https://www.dropbox.com/personal?preview=Capture.PNG
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 06:04:13 AM
Can't see the image file.

Chances are the cable doesn't have the FTDI chip, or has a fake chip, which means it won't work. Or it's a dud.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 06:21:56 AM
where is the link for those other cables?
link should work...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 07:02:11 AM
Cables: LINKY (http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 07:23:43 AM
Would there be anything else I can try?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 07:37:50 AM
Well, if drivers are installed correctly & the com port becomes active when you plug in the cable, and the adapter test can't find the adapter, there's are pretty good chance the cable is bad.

A second known good cable would confirm whether it's the current cable or software.

What bike are you trying to connect to?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 07:41:38 AM
My Aprillia Tuono 2012 1000 cc
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 07:55:57 AM
That's a 7SM ECU, right? Did you select California 1400 in the GuzziDiag config?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 07:57:12 AM
yep sure did bud!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 08:02:04 AM
Buggered if I know. Can't think, must sleep now. I reckon you should try another cable. Hopefully, someone else can chime in with and be more helpful.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 08:03:25 AM
hope so thanks for your help.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ianquota on April 15, 2016, 01:39:23 PM
Hi all, thanks a lot for this thread. Already proving helpful, although possibly not conclusive!

  My '99  1100es quota was running great (well ok but it had been unused for three years and after sorting out the sludge out of the tank and other lay up bits was running fine) when about 5mins out developed an alarming misfire, wouldn't rev and I managed limped home at about 20mph.
 
I was always planning to obtain an ECU diagnostic to try some fine tuning, unfortunately it has become a priority.  Downloaded the guzzidiag onto an old Win7 netbook and it works great with the lonelec leads.  Trouble is I was expecting to see errors and drop outs in RPM associated with engine timing issue, or an error code; but I didn't. 

  Kind of back to basics now, tried new plugs, no joy.  Will check leads etc but also tempted to swap out the timing sensor anyway, anyone know how to check them? 

  Either way I am kind of looking forward to

a.  Getting the flippin' thing running.
b.  Getting it running smoothly as standard
c.   Maybe even making the odd tweak, not sure I can write a map to the old ECU 15M I have though.

Either way it'll be fun, any top tips for the older stuff aprreciated, especially those quota related.

All the best
Ian
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 15, 2016, 05:35:32 PM
If the timing sensor is faulty, you'd get an error.

After being in storage, maybe a clogged injector? Pull the injectors and test them.


Oh, and yes, you can read and write maps to the 15M.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on April 15, 2016, 06:13:40 PM
I had a set of cables that worked for about a year. Loaned them out, user said they didn't work. So I tried them on my bike and they no longer worked. Acted just like the bogus one I ended up with first.

Bought another set (same cables off of Amazon.com) and they have worked since.

So you may have had the right cables but I've heard they do not suffer stray static electricity very well so they may have toasted on you. But faux cables or toasted ones act the same: will not connect.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on April 15, 2016, 07:40:25 PM
Cables and com ports,

I found the link to the cables on Amazon I think from this topic. They have worked fine so far.

On the com port, somehow my PC device decided to add a com port. Now I have two to chose from. Sometimes the first one listed works, sometimes the second one. Try both ports before giving up.

Good luck,
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on April 15, 2016, 08:53:44 PM
Cables and com ports,

I found the link to the cables on Amazon I think from this topic. They have worked fine so far.

On the com port, somehow my PC device decided to add a com port. Now I have two to chose from. Sometimes the first one listed works, sometimes the second one. Try both ports before giving up.

Good luck,
Tom


I tried all the coms I have 4 of them none are working with Guzzidiag (not connected)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 16, 2016, 03:00:04 AM
2012 Stelvio 8v ABS

Running GuzziDiag and all seems OK except it appears only 1 of my Lambdas is displaying.
When it's cold they both show 0, see below even tho it wasn't running at this time it still shows this when it's cold.
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Lambda%20Cold_zps8cwalmsy.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Lambda%20Cold_zps8cwalmsy.jpg.html)

As it warms up only Lambda1 appears:
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Lambda%2052c_zpsixw7xwok.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Lambda%2052c_zpsixw7xwok.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Lambda%2059c_zpszq8vfy6r.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Lambda%2059c_zpszq8vfy6r.jpg.html)

Should that be how it looks. Loaded Mark's latest 2 Lambda Map, but it's always looked like this.

Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 16, 2016, 05:41:09 AM
Is it like that at normal operating temperature too? In your picture it shows an engine temperature of 59 degrees. I guess this is just a coincidence but the lambda signal is ignored by the ECU below 60 degrees.

You now have a map with the lambdas switched off, so it isn't currently a problem, but I would have thought that if your lambda really was defective, you would have got an error message on the stock map.

+16 CO Trim?? Is that the recommendation for the map?

John
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 16, 2016, 06:52:05 AM
Is it like that at normal operating temperature too? In your picture it shows an engine temperature of 59 degrees. I guess this is just a coincidence but the lambda signal is ignored by the ECU below 60 degrees.

You now have a map with the lambdas switched off, so it isn't currently a problem, but I would have thought that if your lambda really was defective, you would have got an error message on the stock map.

+16 CO Trim?? Is that the recommendation for the map?


John

John.
From memory it doesn't matter what temp it's  running at the 2nd Lambda doesn't show. Doesn't matter which map either.
If the CO trim is set any lower than that it idles really rough and low.

Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 16, 2016, 08:05:05 AM
It's unlikely, but did you check if the lambda cables are damaged or if it's not plugged in properly?
I find it strange that you never got some kind of error message with the stock map if your lambda really isn't sending a signal.

Maybe the CO Trim you now have is a result of this problem. I don't know, but I imagine Beetle doesn't suggest a trim of +16 for his map. The fact that your bike runs poorly below that is an indication that something else is going on. I wonder if your ECU has somehow "learned" some incorrect adjustments over time due to the missing lambda signal and is continuing to apply that to the new map? Did you reset the auto learn parameters when you installed the new map?

Did your bike idle roughly with the standard map too?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 16, 2016, 02:31:56 PM
Hi Xlratr
I did mention the CO to Beetle and he said it should be close to Zero, but it runs like a dog at that and is hard to start.

I've reset the auto learning thing numerous times and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I'll check the cables and if that isn't the problem  I'll put the stock map back in and see what happens.

Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 16, 2016, 05:30:37 PM
Larry, I just sent you the very latest map with your speedo correction. Try it at CO=0 first and let me know.

I suspect something else it happening with regard to the rough idle. How's your TB balance?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 16, 2016, 10:54:23 PM
Larry, I just sent you the very latest map with your speedo correction. Try it at CO=0 first and let me know.

I suspect something else it happening with regard to the rough idle. How's your TB balance?

Thanks Mark.
After checking and spraying the Lambda cable connections I loaded the map and did the whole reset thing - correct me if I'm wrong:
Idle screw (the little brass one under the left TB, right one's already in)all the way in, (3.5 turns?). At 85c I reset TB to 4.80 and auto learn. Set Balance at 3750rpm. Reset TB and Auto learn. Balanced idle - 4 turns out on left side. This is with CO at 18. Reset CO to zero. Idling like a dog and way out of balance - couldn't balance it. set CO trim to 18 and it runs OK and balances - reset TB and auto learn. BUT NO LAMBDA 2.

I disconnected the Lambdas and the reading disappeared on GuzziDiag when disconnecting the left one, but nothing when disconnecting, wobbling, reconnecting, tapping etc the right one.
Guess it's broke :(

Thoughts ??

Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 12:21:52 AM
Uh-oh. Better post a pic of the screw you adjusted. I have a horrible feeling you may touched the sacred screw.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 17, 2016, 01:24:01 AM
I think it's the air bleed Mark.

Larry, is this a sudden development or has it done this since rollerisation?

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 02:12:01 AM
Phew. How long ago did you rollerized it, Pete? If not that long ago, it shouldn't need a TB balance yet.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 17, 2016, 03:17:15 AM
Few months and it was fine for me but being my paranoid self thinking I may of screwed something up!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 03:56:59 AM
Few months and it was fine for me but being my paranoid self thinking I may of screwed something up!

I don't think it was that Pete. I've just looked through my emails and I queried Mark about this back at the end of August last year as I couldn't get it to idle properly without the CO trim being at 16+, but can't remember if the Lambda was working or not. I know I installed the stock map prior to send it up to get rollerized.
I think I'll have to get a new Lambda, you don't have one lying around by any chance do you?

Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 04:07:09 AM
If you're going to keep using my map, you won't need a new lambda. The map is open loop, so the lambda signals are ignored. You will still get an error, however, if the lambda sensor heater fails.

I would ignore the fact the second lambda shows no signal. There's something else amiss, either with the tune, or the map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 04:29:51 AM
If you're going to keep using my map, you won't need a new lambda. The map is open loop, so the lambda signals are ignored. You will still get an error, however, if the lambda sensor heater fails.

I would ignore the fact the second lambda shows no signal. There's something else amiss, either with the tune, or the map.

There are no faults showing Mark.

I think I'll load the stock map tomorrow and see what happens.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 17, 2016, 05:18:25 AM
Larry, there is no way you should need 3 or 4 turns of either of the bleed screws if the high speed balance is correct. Both of mine are closed and it is in perfect synch. I'm also thinking you turned the wrong screw when doing the high speed balance. It should be the one that adjusts the length of the rod going over to the right side TB.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 17, 2016, 06:11:48 AM
Yup. Pics please Larry of what you touched. I still think it's the air bleeds but let's be sure. If you can't post them here send them to me and I'll post 'em up. We'll fix this, not a problem, but it's a matter of using a proces of elimination and via the web, that's hard.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 06:47:42 AM
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-17%2021.23.47_zpsntcaj222.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-17%2021.23.47_zpsntcaj222.jpg.html)

This is the high Speed adjustment screw. The air bleed is tucked up behind this that requires an Allen key to adjust- there's another one on the other side. I haven't touched anything else
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 06:54:48 AM
I haven't touched this one
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-17%2021.50.54_zpszbitrqco.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-17%2021.50.54_zpszbitrqco.jpg.html)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 17, 2016, 06:59:34 AM
Thank goodness! You used the right screw. Must be something else. Hhmmm
Air Leak on the opposite TB to the one you adjusted the bleed screw on??
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 07:04:54 AM
Thanks Larry. I'll sleep better now.


When you try the stock map, if it idles fine straight up, we can only assume your bike doesn't like my map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 07:09:14 AM
Thanks Larry. I'll sleep better now.


When you try the stock map, if it idles fine straight up, we can only assume your bike doesn't like my map.

I'll do that in the morning Mark.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 17, 2016, 07:12:41 AM
Thanks Larry. I'll sleep better now.


When you try the stock map, if it idles fine straight up, we can only assume your bike doesn't like my map.

Mark, if the high speed balance is good, but the idle requires 3 to 4 turns, it must surely be mechanical, not map related. The map can't affect the amount of air going through the TB.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 07:26:48 AM
I agree. A less tuned map like the stock map may mask the symptoms.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 17, 2016, 08:01:00 AM
Balanced idle - 4 turns out on left side.

................... ...................

 but nothing when disconnecting, wobbling, reconnecting, tapping etc the right one.

Sure sounds like a huge air leak on the right side. That may also lean out the right lambda sensor until it stayed at zero.
Compare the spark plug ceramic color.

May not hurt to check the valve clearances too.


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 02:44:57 PM
Photo of plugs.  The right one is richer than the left one. I have no idea what that means.

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Mobile%20Uploads/20160418_052309_RichtoneHDR_zpsbiduexlk.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160418_052309_RichtoneHDR_zpsbiduexlk.jpg.html)

Checked the valves. No change since rollerization. Inlets 4 - Exhausts 6. One of the right hand inlets was probably 4.5 so I adjusted that.

Could I check for an air leak by spraying aerostart around the inlet area of the right TB?

The bike has done 46000klm and I've done 30000 of those in the last 2years. Truth is the bike has always run like this. I suspected early on that it wasn't right so cleaned the airways by spraying air intake cleaner down the air intake tubes, also pulled the injectors and made up a loom with battery and ran injector cleaner through them. Didn't make any difference.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 04:03:15 PM
Unlikely to be the map then. Did you buy the bike used?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 04:33:43 PM
Unlikely to be the map then. Did you buy the bike used?

Yes. From A1 in Ringwood. It had done 15000klms
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 04:39:41 PM
I wonder if someone has been fiddling with the TB prior to your purchase?

Does the paint on the sacred screw appear to be intact?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 17, 2016, 04:47:26 PM
From memory it looked OK but that isn't to say the linkage rod or the *other* throttle stop screw haven't been screwed with.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 04:53:57 PM
They certainly don't look like they've been touched.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 17, 2016, 06:58:28 PM
This morning I left Mark's latest map installed, but I have closed both air bleeds and set the CO trim to zero.
It starts and runs just fine, maybe a little rough but not too bad IMHO - hear it here:

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/th_20160418_085705_zpsqjj98rab.mp4) (http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/20160418_085705_zpsqjj98rab.mp4)

Or here if that doesn't work

http://vid337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/20160418_085705_zpsqjj98rab.mp4


The 4000rpm balance is perfect, but the idle balance is total rubbish now.

Comments  :laugh:

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 17, 2016, 09:21:47 PM
Can you provide a screen grab of GuzziDiag connected showing RPM, temps and injection values with the current setup?

What happens if you open the required air bleed to improve balance?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 18, 2016, 12:45:08 AM
Larry, the map has no influence on the amount of air entering the TBs, so assuming the sacred screw was never touched, two things spring to mind.
1) there is an air leak on the right side as mentionoed above.
Or
2) you are having issues checking the high speed balance.

Without wanting to muddy the waters, you might want to try an alternative method to balance the TBs. This is the way I've started to do mine and it works for me. Plus, it'll be a check for the high speed balance accuracy.

With the bleed screws closed and the engine warm, balance the idle using the high speed screw. Reset the TPS.
After that check to see if the TBs are in sync at 4000 rpm. If they are, then everything is fine. If there is a noticeable difference, we're back to the air leak.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 01:29:20 AM
I did that Xlratr.
Balance at 4000rpm was WAAAY out.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 01:42:30 AM
Can you provide a screen grab of GuzziDiag connected showing RPM, temps and injection values with the current setup?

What happens if you open the required air bleed to improve balance?

SREENDUMPS:

Air Bleeds at Zero. CO @ Zero. Balanced @ 3500rpm
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/ABs0%20Bal3500rpm_zpseo56r9f8.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/ABs0%20Bal3500rpm_zpseo56r9f8.jpg.html)
Took it for a run and it wasn't too good.

Air Bleeds at Zero. CO @ Zero. NOT-Balanced @ Idlerpm
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/ABs0%20NO-BalIdle-rpm_zps94cnw4xo.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/ABs0%20NO-BalIdle-rpm_zps94cnw4xo.jpg.html)

Left Air Bleed 4Turns Out CO @ Zero Balanced @ Idlerpm
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/LfABs4Out%20BalIdle-rpm_CO0_zpsjdh6cakd.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/LfABs4Out%20BalIdle-rpm_CO0_zpsjdh6cakd.jpg.html)

Left Air Bleed 4Turns Out CO @ 15 Balanced @ Idlerpm
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/LfABs4Out%20BalIdle-rpm_CO15_zpsnuskrzsv.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/LfABs4Out%20BalIdle-rpm_CO15_zpsnuskrzsv.jpg.html)

It seems to run best around here   :sad:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 18, 2016, 02:27:06 AM
I did that Xlratr.
Balance at 4000rpm was WAAAY out.

Wow, that was quick!
Well that now rules out the possibility of a previous inaccurate high speed balance check. We're back to some mechanical cause such as air leak or (hopefully not!) messed with base line (sacred screw). If you can't detect an air leak anywhere on the right side (you could use starter spray) then I think you need to talk to Pete

Edit @Mark: I'm having a hard time understanding those Lambda numbers. It's been a while since I've looked at narrow band readings in GuzziDiag and I can't remember how it behaves at idle. Narrow band numbers are hard to interpret exactly, but still I would think a modified map would be showing something like 0,5V or higher at idle and maybe something slightly less at 3,500rpm in neutral. None of those numbers fit to that. A narrow band signal is from 0 to 1Volt. Does 4390mV really mean 0,43Volt? (if so it's wrongly calculated surely). And if 4390mV is really meant to be 0,43V, then 120mV at idle is off the scale. Something very strange there, but as I say, I've forgotten what the mV readings look like in GuzziDiag.

Edit 2: Again, I unfortunately can't remember, but I wonder if a screen shot from Guzzidiag is going to show a random mV number from the Lambda as it cycles back and forth between lean/rich on the standard map? Or does Guzzidiag average that out? Irrelevant I suppose because the Lamba is not operational in this case.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 03:01:41 AM
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-18%2017.57.24_zpsajj0ljlj.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-18%2017.57.24_zpsajj0ljlj.jpg.html)

The sacred screw
Paint Doesn't look like it's been broken
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 18, 2016, 06:37:13 AM
John, I always ignore the lambda values in GuzziDiag. They're up and down like house numbers, and when caught in a screen shot, mean nothing.


What I find interesting is that in the last two shots, with idle at around 1300, the pulse-width is 1700uS less with a CO at +15

Riddle me that!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 18, 2016, 06:51:32 AM
John, I always ignore the lambda values in GuzziDiag. They're up and down like house numbers, and when caught in a screen shot, mean nothing.
I thought that may be the case. But still, there are some strange numbers there.

What I find interesting is that in the last two shots, with idle at around 1300, the pulse-width is 1700uS less with a CO at +15
*If* your target Idle RPM in your Map is 1300RPM, I can see the ECU tying to maintain it in the way shown in the screen shots by adjusting the pulse width.
But I guess your Map Idle is 1250?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 18, 2016, 07:11:57 AM
Target idle is 1250, but unless the pulse is varying substantially, the pulse-width should be at least a higher value in the second screen shot. Therein may be the reason for the rough idle.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 18, 2016, 07:21:45 AM
Larry, what about the stepper? Any chance it might be jammed or non-functional?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 07:28:26 AM
Larry, what about the stepper? Any chance it might be jammed or non-functional?

How do I check that Mark?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 18, 2016, 07:45:16 AM
Larry, what about the stepper? Any chance it might be jammed or non-functional?

Worth checking, but I guess if it is open all the time then both TBs would get additional air equally and they would at least be in balance. But strange things happen.

I just noticed that screenshot 2 has 75% more pulse width than screenshot 4, for the same RPM, despite screenshot 4 having +15 CO Trim. I can only conclude that the numbers must be jumping around all over the place and that the screen shots just show a random selection  :sad:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 18, 2016, 08:05:21 AM
John, I always ignore the lambda values in GuzziDiag. They're up and down like house numbers, and when caught in a screen shot, mean nothing.


What I find interesting is that in the last two shots, with idle at around 1300, the pulse-width is 1700uS less with a CO at +15

Riddle me that!

Can that be because the engine heat has gone up?
Adjusting the CO up, and getting a SMALLER pulse is all inside the ECU. No air leak or even a bad injector would cause that.


Just to confuse things, I would start looking for someone that can test injectors.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 18, 2016, 08:51:03 AM
...
Adjusting the CO up, and getting a SMALLER pulse is all inside the ECU. No air leak or even a bad injector would cause that.
...

I think the ECUs primary goal at closed throttle is to maintain the target idle speed and it will do whatever is in its power to achieve that. That means adjusting timing and fuel. If there is some element in play like additional air coming from somewhere it will be all over the place trying to correct for it and those numbers we see in the pictures may just be a random view of a fluctuating picture. I can't help but get back to the fact that it's impossible to get the TBs balanced at both idle and high speed without introducing a lot more air on the left. To compensate for ... what?

Edit: Here's a crazy idea. If the bike has *always* been that way, what are the chances that the sacred screw was set wrongly at the factory? Or has the linkage mechanism been damaged at some point, thereby changing the geometry? Just throwing some ideas out there.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 18, 2016, 10:09:53 AM
How about the stepper motor hose to the one side is plugged up? Maybe. Confusing for sure.

I think the ECUs primary goal at closed throttle is to maintain the target idle speed and it will do whatever is in its power to achieve that. That means adjusting timing and fuel. If there is some element in play like additional air coming from somewhere it will be all over the place trying to correct for it and those numbers we see in the pictures may just be a random view of a fluctuating picture. I can't help but get back to the fact that it's impossible to get the TBs balanced at both idle and high speed without introducing a lot more air on the left. To compensate for ... what?

But, between photo 3 & 4, the RPM dropped slightly, the timing stayed the same, and the injector time got leaner, not richer to bump up the revs. But then I suspect the screen numbers are a bit too random to judge a lot on.

He has to add AIR to the left, and the right spark plug may be darker (RICH). (?)

Odd indeed. I'm going to have a beer or five now.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 18, 2016, 11:11:23 AM
I'm thinking maybe some 40mm pumpers?  :evil: :smiley:
<running and ducking>
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 18, 2016, 05:06:30 PM
If my understanding of how the 5AM works, it does not vary the pulse-width for target idle. The pulse is determined strictly by the map + throttle + correction tables. To correct idle, it uses the stepper motor.

In the screen shots, the engine temperature from 118 to 125 will not affect the the pulse-width. From 105 to 112, definitely. In this map, the correction value is the same for above 111 degrees. The  air temperature correction would, as the placement of the air temp sensor can cause the correctional value to change due to the fact the bike is stationary, and engine heat may affect the sensor. I would not expect a 36% reduction in pulse-width in this case, maybe 5%. Add CO trim at +15, which should have added 150uS, one can only guess that the screen shot can not be relied on to accurately reflect reality.




Larry, an easy way to check if the stepper is working, is to switch the ignition on. After the fuel pump has primed, turn the key off. You should hear the whirring noise of the stepper.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 18, 2016, 05:08:26 PM
I'm thinking maybe some 40mm pumpers?  :evil: :smiley:
<running and ducking>


You're funny.  :violent1:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 06:32:27 PM
Stepper appears to be working by Mark's  method.

This morning I pulled the injectors and ran some cleaner through them using a syringe of injector cleaner and activating using a 12v switch connected to give current. Both seemed to work OK. I swapped them over.

Also checked the air filter, clean, and sprayed some fancy voodoo air intake cleaner through the intakes while the bike was running. That's supposed to clean the butterflies I hope.

Connected Guzzidiag and balancing tubes. Nothings changed at idle.

I'll get some quick start stuff today and see if I can find an air leak. I'm assuming just spray it around the TB area?
I'm not sure what else I can do.

On 15th of May I'm loading this thing into a crate to be loaded into a container to ship it to Rotterdam for a 3 month jaunt around Western Europe from mid July.  It'd be good to have it fixed by then 😊
 It's been running like this for as long as I can remember so another 10000klms isn't going to hurt it  ???

I hope 😦😨
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 18, 2016, 06:36:04 PM
Have you nipped up the intake boots? They can come loose.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
Have you nipped up the intake boots? They can come loose.

Yes. Did that a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 18, 2016, 07:36:06 PM
Larry? I'm wondering if the cam timing is one tooth out on one pot. Being an 'A' kit bike I didn't have to check it when it was rollerised as the sprocket just gets cable tied to the head when you whip the cambox off. If for some reason it was incorrect before it would still be incorrect now. Had anyone ever been inside it before me? The 8V is not a collision motor, at least not one way, but it will run very strangely if its got one cam a tooth out. While I doubt this is the problem it is probably worth checking.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 07:59:07 PM
Haha. Thanks Pete. My thinking was it would collect a valve if it was out so crossed my fingers. Obvious that doesn't work 😁

As far as I know no one had been in there previously. It had only done 16000klms when I bought it.

So how do I check that?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 18, 2016, 10:46:54 PM
Set piston up at TDC compression same as if you were checking the valves, remove the breather plate from the back of the head and take off the flinger plate. the locating pin should be at 6 O'clock in relation to the bore as it were. If it is right just loctite the retaining bolt and reinstall the plate.

Should look like this.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7487/16072522220_725eb116ce_c.jpg)

As you can see if is out by a tooth it will be obvious. As I said I don't think this is the issue but..............

pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 18, 2016, 11:53:13 PM
Thanks heaps Pete.
That doesn't look too difficult.

I got some Quick Start stuff. When the bike was hot,  120c, it seemed to make a difference spraying it AT the spring hanging under the RH Throttle Body,  but going back now from ambient to 65c it doesn't seem to make any difference.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 19, 2016, 04:24:40 AM
So here's mine
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_184112-1_zpshgi7cu2v.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_184112-1_zpshgi7cu2v.jpg.html)

Looks good
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 19, 2016, 05:13:36 AM
If that's the right pot I'd say yes.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 19, 2016, 10:18:20 PM
If that's the right pot I'd say yes.

Pete

Correct
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 20, 2016, 02:36:10 AM
Pete, is there anything that could be stopping the RH TB from closing properly? I just can't get my head around why they're balanced at high speed but the LH side needs so much extra air at idle.

Larry, if you have it balanced at 4,000 with the bleed screws closed, is it also in balance at say 2,000?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 20, 2016, 03:14:35 AM
Pete, is there anything that could be stopping the RH TB from closing properly? I just can't get my head around why they're balanced at high speed but the LH side needs so much extra air at idle.

Larry, if you have it balanced at 4,000 with the bleed screws closed, is it also in balance at say 2,000?

I'll look into that John because I'm tending to that as well, but my thought is that the actual throttle adjustment might be the problem. Do I have too much tension on either or both cables?
So I've slackened both of them off big time and it does make a difference to the idle balance.
But before I go down that path, how do I adjust the cables properly. What's the procedure because with two cables it's obviously a bit more than just tensioning the traditional one cable against a return spring.

Thoughts.?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 20, 2016, 03:52:32 AM
I'll look into that John because I'm tending to that as well, but my thought is that the actual throttle adjustment might be the problem. Do I have too much tension on either or both cables?
So I've slackened both of them off big time and it does make a difference to the idle balance.
But before I go down that path, how do I adjust the cables properly. What's the procedure because with two cables it's obviously a bit more than just tensioning the traditional one cable against a return spring.

Thoughts.?

I don't have my bike to hand, but as far as I remember there is just push/pull to the left side and the rest is via linkage. I would just take *almost* all the slack out of the "pull" cable and leave a little bit more slack in the "pull/return" cable. I'll have a look when I get home, but I'm sure somebody will have corrected that by then if it is wrong.
While you're at it, have a look at the mechanism to see if something is stopping the RH side from closing properly or if it stops closing before the LH side does.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 20, 2016, 04:04:30 AM
Loosen the cables until you have noticeable free-play in the throttle grip. Then, set your idle balance. Gradually tighten each cable until free-play just begins to take up. At some point, the revs will start to rise as tension is applied to the linkage. This is where you loosen the cables a smidge, so that idle revs go back to normal.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 20, 2016, 04:13:31 AM
How can I tell if they're 'closed' properly?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 20, 2016, 04:18:24 AM
It's a pity I can't look at my bike right now, but try looking at the linkage from underneath as you slowly open and close the throttle with the engine off. Can you detect if one side still has slight movement after the other side stops?

BTW, *if* the RH side was not closed fully when you did your TPS reset, then I think this might account for some of the problems you're having.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 20, 2016, 06:15:35 AM
I'll give it a go.
Thanks

Larry
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 20, 2016, 06:32:35 AM
I reckon some clown has buggered with your TB's. I sent my spare set to Belfast Dave but I've got another, hopefully unmollested, pair on the way from the US. If you have time to drop up we can try them.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 20, 2016, 06:42:16 AM
I reckon some clown has buggered with your TB's. I sent my spare set to Belfast Dave but I've got another, hopefully unmollested, pair on the way from the US. If you have time to drop up we can try them.

Pete

Pete, I can't check mine till this evening but is there any kind of stopper screw that the right side TB sits on when closed?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 20, 2016, 07:14:36 AM
There is a right hand 'sacred screw'. It's not easy to get at, but I have been vexed by a 1200 Sport that had had the secret sacred screw adjusted.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on April 20, 2016, 01:10:34 PM
There is a right hand 'sacred screw'. It's not easy to get at, but I have been vexed by a 1200 Sport that had had the secret sacred screw adjusted.

I had a look at the "secret sacred screw"  It would explain a lot if that had been messed with, but it's REALLY hard to access. Seems unlikely that someone just wanting to "adjust the idle" would choose to play with that screw, but you never know.
Alternately, I wonder if someone adjusted the linkage rod. That has paint on it too and could be checked (as could the secret sacred screw).
I dunno, I just think it "must" be something mechanical like that.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 20, 2016, 01:44:44 PM
I got some Quick Start stuff. When the bike was hot,  120c, it seemed to make a difference spraying it AT the spring hanging under the RH Throttle Body,  but going back now from ambient to 65c it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Makes you wonder if it is a leaking shaft.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 20, 2016, 03:53:07 PM
I had a look at the "secret sacred screw"  It would explain a lot if that had been messed with, but it's REALLY hard to access. Seems unlikely that someone just wanting to "adjust the idle" would choose to play with that screw, but you never know.
Alternately, I wonder if someone adjusted the linkage rod. That has paint on it too and could be checked (as could the secret sacred screw).
I dunno, I just think it "must" be something mechanical like that.

You'd be surprised what 'Harry Hometune' and/or a shaved ape can achieve. Their dedication to screwing stuff up is astounding. The bike Mark mentioned is in my shop at the moment and with the onset of cooler weather it's playing up again. I think a new set of TB's will be the only proper solution. Not the owners fault, this one was buggered up by the last dealer in Canberra!

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 20, 2016, 05:05:45 PM
Well if Larry's RH sacred screw has been fiddled with, he's buggered. If it's a case of over-tight throttle cables, he might get this sorted.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 20, 2016, 06:11:40 PM
Well if Larry's RH sacred screw has been fiddled with, he's buggered. If it's a case of over-tight throttle cables, he might get this sorted.

:) Thanks Mark, I'm mightily encouraged  lol.
All the paint is still in place on the linkage arm.

I'm going to load the original map this afternoon, tho not sure if that'll be any good seeing as the right Lambda isn't working  ???. Anyway, I'll see if I can get it settled at least. I've got a Lambda on the way over from TLM so hopefully should be here next week.

Thanks for you offer Pete, but my time is short. NZ for my Mum's 90th next week, then bike's supposed to be loaded around the 15th May for Europe. At a pinch I could possibly be on your doorstep am of Monday 9th May. I'll see how I go.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 21, 2016, 03:02:50 AM
So I loaded the factory map, and what do you know, there's that wayward Lambda2

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/1%20Connected_zps2bnporpg.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/1%20Connected_zps2bnporpg.jpg.html)

Here it is balanced at 3400rpm

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/2%20ABs0%20Bal3400rpm_zpssd6kqtbz.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/2%20ABs0%20Bal3400rpm_zpssd6kqtbz.jpg.html)

And here balance at idle, BUT with two turns out on the LH air bleed - and idle isn't to smooth.

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n384/lnblackmore/3%20LfABs2Out%20BalIdle-rpm_CO3_zpspgz9v57r.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/lnblackmore/media/3%20LfABs2Out%20BalIdle-rpm_CO3_zpspgz9v57r.jpg.html)

These are all with slack Throttle cables.

I'll take it for a spin tomorrow and see if I can live with it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 21, 2016, 03:47:58 AM
And did you try it with the last map I sent?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 21, 2016, 04:02:49 AM
And did you try it with the last map I sent?

Yes I did Mark and thanks for that.  Loaded it immediately so lots of the previous was with that map.

Just to check I loaded it again (actually I had to to reduce the CO trim as I can't seem to change it using thefactory map) and the Lambda was still awol.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 21, 2016, 04:46:54 AM
Don't be too concerned about the lambda's. If you're going to be running an open loop map, the lambda has no affect. That is why you can't adjust the CO trim with stock map. When lambda is active, CO trim is not, and vice versa.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on April 22, 2016, 11:27:50 AM
Don't be too concerned about the lambda's. If you're going to be running an open loop map, the lambda has no affect. That is why you can't adjust the CO trim with stock map. When lambda is active, CO trim is not, and vice versa.

Don't think there is an relevance to this, but one thing I did notice going from a custom map to a stock map is it will hold the CO value in the stock map to what you had it on the custom.  Guzzidiag will display the CO value of the custom map, even though the stock map is loaded. If the ECU disregards that then all good, if it does not, then maybe it can cause some confusion.

When I have ventured back to the stock map, I always set my CO back to zero first, and then load the stock map back on.  That is the only way for Guzzidiag to display 0 on the stock map.

Again, may be irrelevant, but just an observation.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 22, 2016, 02:05:12 PM
Don't think there is an relevance to this, but one thing I did notice going from a custom map to a stock map is it will hold the CO value in the stock map to what you had it on the custom.  Guzzidiag will display the CO value of the custom map, even though the stock map is loaded. If the ECU disregards that then all good, if it does not, then maybe it can cause some confusion.

When I have ventured back to the stock map, I always set my CO back to zero first, and then load the stock map back on.  That is the only way for Guzzidiag to display 0 on the stock map.

Again, may be irrelevant, but just an observation.

 Well to be precise, there is no CO value in a map, it is stored in the eeprom memory in the ecu. So if you worry, also download the eeprom, and save that with stock map. When you ever want to return 100% stock, upload map and eprom back.  The eeprom hold all more changing things like errors, tps reset value, selflearning, and CO. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: canuck1969 on April 22, 2016, 02:27:09 PM
Well to be precise, there is no CO value in a map, it is stored in the eeprom memory in the ecu. So if you worry, also download the eeprom, and save that with stock map. When you ever want to return 100% stock, upload map and eprom back.  The eeprom hold all more changing things like errors, tps reset value, selflearning, and CO.

Appreciate the explanation.

So does the CO value on the eeprom affect the loaded stock map on the bike.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on April 22, 2016, 05:55:34 PM
I don't believe it does.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 24, 2016, 10:33:20 AM
Appreciate the explanation.

So does the CO value on the eeprom affect the loaded stock map on the bike.

No I think when lambda is active, it doesn't look at the co value. It uses the lambda and the saved autolearning value.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on April 27, 2016, 06:47:08 PM
New member  here and first time guzzi owner. I bought my 2010 griso last year  brand new, a deal to good to pass.
I had a lot a fun with it past season, has 6000 km now and no issues.
I  started  to read on this forum about a month ago and registered today. I learned  mine is one of the models affected by the flat tappet issue, plus mine its an A5.
I came across of this post and  all those symptoms that I originally thought was owning a character bike its easily fixed with beetle's map.
So now I have the  Guzzidiag, writer and  reader (5AM ECU version hope is the right one)  loaded in my laptop, cables from Lonelec in the way.
All I'm missing is the right map, so my question is who do i buy it from and how do i pay it.
thx

Peter
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Esmae Watson on April 27, 2016, 06:51:49 PM
Hi Pete, you need to check out Grisoghetto.com there's a link to beetles purchase page in there. Not to mention all of the Griso/stelvio etc. specific talk in there. I'd post the link to beetles site but I really think you need to check out the ghetto for yourself.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on April 27, 2016, 07:05:09 PM
Hi Pete, you need to check out Grisoghetto.com there's a link to beetles purchase page in there. Not to mention all of the Griso/stelvio etc. specific talk in there. I'd post the link to beetles site but I really think you need to check out the ghetto for yourself.

Thanks, I'll do that
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Red Dog on April 28, 2016, 11:10:08 AM
I have both a Jackal & a Griso. 

Can I install both programs & readers on the same lap top without a conflict?

If I can how will they be indentifyed so I know which one to use?

Thanks so much.

PS: I have been scared of this new fangled electronics stuff for too long!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 28, 2016, 11:19:26 AM
I have both a Jackal & a Griso. 

Can I install both programs & readers on the same lap top without a conflict?

If I can how will they be indentifyed so I know which one to use?

Thanks so much.

PS: I have been scared of this new fangled electronics stuff for too long!

The same GuzziDiag program will work with the Griso 5AM and the Jackal 15M. Just go to preferences and select the vehicle.
The rom reader/writers are different, but you can put it all on one PC.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 28, 2016, 12:49:32 PM
The guzzidiag programs don't have any installation and write nothing in registry. Only a place that you have write rights to is needed so it can write its logfile.

The reader writer are in ecu specific versions, named after the ecu.

the IAW15xReader and IAW15xWriter are you could guess it: for the 15Rc and 15m > Jackal

the IAW5xReader and IAW5xWriter are for the 5am and 59m so thats your griso.

 Guzzidiag does them all for diagnostics.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Red Dog on April 28, 2016, 01:31:16 PM
Thank You OMG & Paul.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 28, 2016, 04:40:47 PM

PS: I have been scared of this new fangled electronics stuff for too long!

And now you have chosen to conquer that fear! Excellent.

Hello WG people! Take a leaf out of Fido's book! It's NOT rocket science and there are lots of really smart people here who will bust their arses to help you, for (Suspender twang!) FREE! :evil:

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Larry on April 28, 2016, 04:59:24 PM
And now you have chosen to conquer that fear! Excellent.

Hello WG people! Take a leaf out of Fido's book! It's NOT rocket science and there are lots of really smart people here who will bust their arses to help you, for (Suspender twang!) FREE! :evil:

Pete

Certainly have to second that Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Yukonica on April 29, 2016, 11:32:09 AM
 :1:
And now you have chosen to conquer that fear! Excellent.

Hello WG people! Take a leaf out of Fido's book! It's NOT rocket science and there are lots of really smart people here who will bust their arses to help you, for (Suspender twang!) FREE! :evil:

Pete
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/1.gif
and, Thank you for that help... beyond invaluable.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Red Dog on April 29, 2016, 01:27:15 PM
And now you have chosen to conquer that fear! Excellent.

Hello WG people! Take a leaf out of Fido's book! It's NOT rocket science and there are lots of really smart people here who will bust their arses to help you, for (Suspender twang!) FREE! :evil:

Pete

WOOF! HEY PETE!  I used to be jump in with both feet & let 'er go to hell then we'll sort that mess out & learn something on the way.

But in the last few years I've had a number of strokes & found myself having to take stuff back apart not once but sometimes three times.
It's a bummer sitting there looking at a part in your hand & not sure.......

Kinda lost my confidence for awhile.  Now I take pics, lots of pics when ever I do something.

I'll either learn it or I won't but I'll go down fighting like I always have.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on April 29, 2016, 02:30:48 PM
Could someone  please tell me where can I get beetles  map bin file for a 2010 stock griso.
 I was told here to try grisoghetto, i regisered 2 days ago but its taking theme forever to activate it.
Thanks
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 29, 2016, 03:47:45 PM
Could someone  please tell me where can I get beetles  map bin file for a 2010 stock griso.
 I was told here to try grisoghetto, i regisered 2 days ago but its taking theme forever to activate it.
Thanks
try http://griso.org/
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 29, 2016, 04:38:07 PM
Pay heed to the instructions Mark gives as well. Many people seem to believe that installing a new map is a sort of 'Magic Bullet' that will cure all woes. It won't. If the machine is not serviced and tuned correctly it will still under-perform and may damage itself. The tune has to be correct or you're on a hiding to nothing.

I'd also add that when flat tappet damage gets critical it too will impact performance. Tell tale signs can be a low idle, an inability to hold idle when cold, stalling unless the throttle is applied when cold and occasional spit-backs through the throttle bodies when idling. Given all the flat tappet engines are going to fail I would suggest getting them inspected and rollerising ASAP.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on April 29, 2016, 05:03:43 PM
Pay heed to the instructions Mark gives as well. Many people seem to believe that installing a new map is a sort of 'Magic Bullet' that will cure all woes. It won't. If the machine is not serviced and tuned correctly it will still under-perform and may damage itself. The tune has to be correct or you're on a hiding to nothing.

I'd also add that when flat tappet damage gets critical it too will impact performance. Tell tale signs can be a low idle, an inability to hold idle when cold, stalling unless the throttle is applied when cold and occasional spit-backs through the throttle bodies when idling. Given all the flat tappet engines are going to fail I would suggest getting them inspected and rollerising ASAP.

Pete

I bought the bike last year, new with 0 km, although its a 2010 it never left the dealer, was bought by somebody but never picked up.
I had the first service at 1000km and an oil change right at the end of the last season at 6000km all done by the dealer.
Bike works great.
Now, do u think I have a chance of have at least the parts for rollerising covered by MG, or I'm wasting my time trying.
I should mention that being sold previously bike didn't  come with any warranty.
 Peter
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on April 29, 2016, 05:33:05 PM
try http://griso.org/
Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on April 29, 2016, 05:33:21 PM
well if you have the bills, and the dealer didn't register it for warranty before he sold it to you you have a chance. PM me you complete vin, I can lookup

But it has to be broken first, before you get a thing.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on April 29, 2016, 05:34:31 PM
There has to be visible damage before a claim is accepted and the machine must have a full service history.

If you have a FSH though and when inspected there is damage a claim can be put in and as long as all the i's are dotted and t's crossed you should be able to get a kit. You will have to pay for installation though.

Unfortunately when visible damage becomes apparent varies depending on a number of circumstances but generally by 10,000 km it will be well advanced.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on April 29, 2016, 05:59:21 PM
Thanks for the input,
I will probably  be paying for  it myself and have it done or do it  myself next winter.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on May 03, 2016, 06:48:08 PM
I received the cables from lonelec today and i connect with guzzidiag but the reader wont read it.
When i push save the box pops up  to browse to where i want to save it but there isnt anything under file just blank, under file type does say bin.
Does the ignition has to be on while reading it? Ive tried both ways.
Also I  don't get one of thoes fancy icons in the dash as beetle described onfirst page.
I ran the device test with success  and also checked ports under device manager.
Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 03, 2016, 07:14:22 PM
You need to type the name you want to save the file under. Then, when you click 'save', the reader will tell you to switch on your key and press Ok. The it saves the map from the ECU, using the name you previously entered.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on May 03, 2016, 07:22:31 PM
  :grin:
Thanks,missed that part.
How about the icon missing from the dash?
Normal?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 03, 2016, 07:35:06 PM

Are you waiting and turning on the key, when GuzziDiag instruct you to?
Not sure what icons you mean. But you have to tell GuzziDiag what text you want displayed (voltage, or TPS, or temperature, or.....). And of course you need to tell it what comm port and when ECU model.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on May 03, 2016, 07:54:41 PM





When you are connected to the ECU with one of the programs, you will get a nice display on your instruments.


(http://www.griso.org/guzzidiag/panel.jpg)





[/quote]

This doesnt appear on dash.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 03, 2016, 08:05:22 PM
That won't appear unless the ECU and software are communicating. IIRC, only when loading or saving a map
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: petes78cafe on May 03, 2016, 08:07:24 PM
A few times I got invalid name but finally got it.
And now I got the icon too on dash.
Thanks
 :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 04, 2016, 02:06:20 AM
The actual thing the dash tells you, is it can't communicate with the ecu over the can buss. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 11, 2016, 02:17:21 AM
Hi guys my cable just arrived but wont connect to program  shows not connected,I think I have the wright drivers for it, anyone can help?

Tony
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 11, 2016, 02:23:40 AM
what OS, did you install anything? cable from who?
You should see an extra port comming in device manager in windows, and can see on the driver tab what driver is loaded
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 11, 2016, 03:22:11 AM
Hi Have Windows 10
just reinstalled GuzziDiag VO.47
I have the Lonelec cables
drivers are seen at  my device manager USB Serial Port (com6) which is the cables .
When I connect the cables to bike then battery +and - , open the program on the bottom it says Disconnected.
Under settings I can see COM6 under Com Port and under motorcycle I have California 1400.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 11, 2016, 04:42:32 AM
If you installed the drivers that came with the cables, un-install them, and install these: LINKY (http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%202.08.30%20WHQL%20Certified.zip)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 11, 2016, 05:19:47 AM
well if you see com 6 there is a functioning driver.  You have the kill switch active, so the bike can start if you push the start button?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 11, 2016, 05:27:56 AM
Yes bike can start.
Have reinstalled drivers from that clicky.
The best drivers are installed when I did a search under property .
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 11, 2016, 05:39:56 AM
and what version did install? look at the driver tab. I think the cali 1400 has one diagnostics connector. So that can't go wrong
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 11, 2016, 05:49:10 AM
USB Serial Port (COM6)


(http://thumb.ibb.co/g7AE1F/Capture.png) (http://ibb.co/g7AE1F)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 11, 2016, 06:13:49 AM
look at the driver tab. sometimes the pins of the 3 pin connector don't make contact because of the yellow seal that is stiff. Or they even switched wires in the plug. The led goes on when you connect it to the bike?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 11, 2016, 06:23:01 AM
The led does show up when connected to bike.
Getting ridicules 1st I bought the wrong cables now with the correct cables still won't work.Grrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 11, 2016, 06:47:24 AM
Going to bed now getting late here in OZland , will give it another go tomorrow stay tune!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: rboe on May 11, 2016, 12:06:27 PM
There has to be visible damage before a claim is accepted and the machine must have a full service history.

If you have a FSH though and when inspected there is damage a claim can be put in and as long as all the i's are dotted and t's crossed you should be able to get a kit. You will have to pay for installation though.

Unfortunately when visible damage becomes apparent varies depending on a number of circumstances but generally by 10,000 km it will be well advanced.

Pete

Have the dealer submit photo's of the "damaged" tappets and cam to Piaggio no matter what their personal opinion of the matter is. My dealer thought it was just normal looking tappets and cam but submitted the pictures anyway - I got approved for the roller upgrade.

To my eye, after seeing photo's of failing tappets here and on the grisoghetto site it certainly looked to me that things were going tits up.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on May 11, 2016, 12:52:40 PM
Going to bed now getting late here in OZland , will give it another go tomorrow stay tune!

Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but did you open the menu point and click on "connect"?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 11, 2016, 01:04:06 PM
Going to bed now getting late here in OZland , will give it another go tomorrow stay tune!

 you do plug into a connector that has blue/ green and white/blue wires on it?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 13, 2016, 01:48:46 AM
you do plug into a connector that has blue/ green and white/blue wires on it?

I'm back now to give it another go...
You bet I did ...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 13, 2016, 01:52:26 AM
you do plug into a connector that has blue/ green and white/blue wires on it?

Not sure which wires you on about mine are silver that hoes into PC (USB) and have black for the rest I got them here :
http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on May 13, 2016, 04:50:27 PM
Trimixdiver,

I'm not the expert here, but you might try the following.

When the USB and power cables are connected to the bike, the LED on the cable comes on, right?

Now, open Guzzidiag, hit file/ preferences. Select your bike and select com 6. Exit settings.

Now file/ connect and see if it connects. If it does not, try another com port and repeat until you pick the correct one.

Remember to follow the key on prompts and have your kill switch in the run position, but do not start bike.

For some reason, every time I use Guzzidiag I have to select the com port.

Hope this helps,
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 13, 2016, 05:08:30 PM
For some reason, every time I use Guzzidiag I have to select the com port.

Hope this helps,
Tom

 Tom, if you have the program in a place where it can write, it should write an ini file that saves settings. Of do you run it out of the zip file direct?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 13, 2016, 05:14:56 PM
Trimix, have you tried running as administrator? Assuming Windoze.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 13, 2016, 05:16:38 PM
Trimixdiver,

I'm not the expert here, but you might try the following.

When the USB and power cables are connected to the bike, the LED on the cable comes on, right?

Now, open Guzzidiag, hit file/ preferences. Select your bike and select com 6. Exit settings.

Now file/ connect and see if it connects. If it does not, try another com port and repeat until you pick the correct one.

Remember to follow the key on prompts and have your kill switch in the run position, but do not start bike.

For some reason, every time I use Guzzidiag I have to select the com port.

Hope this helps,
Tom

Tom I have tried all of this, even only have one USB on my PC showing Com 6 only.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on May 13, 2016, 05:19:52 PM
Paul,

I extracted the .exe and made a folder for it. Shortcut to the .exe on the desktop. For some reason the cable is on lets say, com 1 sometimes. Turn off computer, then start computer, the cable might be on com 2 this time. Not a big deal, need to take a minute to try to fix that. I think it may have started after a Win 8.X update because somehow I have two com ports, originally only had one.

Thank you,
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on May 13, 2016, 05:38:45 PM
Trimixdiver,

I had hoped that it was something simple that may have been overlooked. Dumb question, is there another model or year bike listed that is similar to yours like a '13 instead of '14? Might try it if there is?

EDIT: One thing that bothers me is that sounds like you only have 1 com port and it's com6. With Win 10 this may be the way it is, but with XP-8.X there is normally a com1. Is there a com1-5 that are being used for other devices?
CAUTION CHECK WITH AN EXPERT FIRST: Might try deleting com6 and restart the computer and let if find a new com port.

Good luck with getting it connected, gotta be something simple??
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 13, 2016, 05:47:45 PM
Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but did you open the menu point and click on "connect"?

We never heard if you are click on 'connect' in the menu.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 13, 2016, 05:49:30 PM
Shortcut to the .exe on the desktop.

Do all of the path properties in the shortcut refer to the folder you created?
It is NOT a compressed folder I assume.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 13, 2016, 05:55:16 PM
BINGO  :thumb: :bow: Showing connected.
Got it guys thanks so much, it was the wireless mouse TOGGLE, all I did was take out , basically have nothing connected, I open GuggiDiag using Admin then followed directions.
Hope this can help other once again thanks.
ps now how to use GuggiDiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 13, 2016, 05:58:48 PM
Trimixdiver,

I had hoped that it was something simple that may have been overlooked. Dumb question, is there another model or year bike listed that is similar to yours like a '13 instead of '14? Might try it if there is?

EDIT: One thing that bothers me is that sounds like you only have 1 com port and it's com6. With Win 10 this may be the way it is, but with XP-8.X there is normally a com1. Is there a com1-5 that are being used for other devices?
CAUTION CHECK WITH AN EXPERT FIRST: Might try deleting com6 and restart the computer and let if find a new com port.

Good luck with getting it connected, gotta be something simple??
Tom

Tom you were pretty close to how I got it going .
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on May 13, 2016, 06:01:05 PM
OMG,

My shortcut if working fine, the .ini is saving the settings between sessions. Just for whatever reason the tablet style computer added a second com port and the USB cable sometimes switches between the two ports when I turn on the computer for the day. Monday it might be on com1, Tuesday it could be on com2.

Other than the com thing, everything works fine, provided i follow the prompts :wink:

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on May 13, 2016, 06:36:23 PM
Trimixdiver,

Congrats!!

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 13, 2016, 11:33:34 PM
OMG,

My shortcut if working fine, the .ini is saving the settings between sessions. Just for whatever reason the tablet style computer added a second com port and the USB cable sometimes switches between the two ports when I turn on the computer for the day. Monday it might be on com1, Tuesday it could be on com2.

Other than the com thing, everything works fine, provided i follow the prompts :wink:

Tom

Ah, got it.

On mine, in the device manager, under port settings/advanced, I can set the port to a fixed number that doesn't change. Have you tried a different com that may be 'stable'?

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on May 14, 2016, 12:16:52 AM
I will look at that. Only two show up and one or the other works with the USB cable, just need to figure out which at each session. Easy enough for now.

If you have read my problems with my bike, fixing a com port was the last thing on my mind while trying to get the poor bike to run right. Wrong map, wrong ECU, get right ECU for bike, wrong map in it and so on. Now that it's running pretty damn good, thanks again to all, I will have to fix the computer. Not the first time on a PC that I've had to configure a port, modem, CD, floppy or the like (once Plug and Play actually worked, damn it made life easy). Just need to take the time to do it.

Now where is that OBD plug on my old Ambo, I think it needs a tune up!! :wink:

Thank you!
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: andym on May 14, 2016, 12:40:05 AM
Hi There,
 I'm really interested in using Guzzidiag to maintain my 02 cali EV (hydraulic tappet model, ecu behind the l/h side panel), but there's been a lot of correspondence and I'm slightly confused by the procedure.
 It makes sense to back up the map as  a start. Does the map I'm saving tell me the stock settings that should be used with the bike or does it tell me what they currently are?
Next base line the tps and set the idle voltage, but are these both done mechanically and with a volt meter or via  the software? Do I need to baseline the tps every time I sevice the bike?
When I come to setting the CO2 level, do i need a gas analyser tool (they aren't the cheapest tool) and again adjust mechanically via the air bleed screws or is it via the software. If it is via the software, what would be a" normal " value range? Is it telling me how much I've increased/decreased or a percentage value of CO2?

This is the first fuel injected bike I've owned , but on previous guzzi's I've maintained them happily with a  colourtune kit and an electronic carb balancer. I'm only really interested in maintaining the EV instandard trim (at the moment) and the software does seem an easy way to do it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: trimixdiver on May 14, 2016, 02:23:29 AM
Now that I have GuzziDiag  working , what should I 1st check , are there any changers I need to know other than errors / faults...shit that should be 1st where do find this?
ps how do I post pics?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 14, 2016, 08:11:39 AM
This is the first fuel injected bike I've owned , but on previous guzzi's I've maintained them happily with a  colourtune kit and an electronic carb balancer. I'm only really interested in maintaining the EV instandard trim (at the moment) and the software does seem an easy way to do it.


That colortune and electronic balancer should be all you need. And of course GuzziDiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 19, 2016, 09:35:34 AM
I am having difficulty with GuzziDiag v0.47.

Platform is Toshiba P50 with Ubuntu MATE 16.04 LTS
Using Lonelec cables
Have blue LED light
Plugged into USB 2.0 port
Drivers extracted to directory called GuzziDiag
Directory structure is correct according to the ReadMe.txt doc
Followed instructions in ReadMe.txt for granting permissions and linking files.
Followed instructions in ReadMe.txt for removing modules FTDI_SIO and USBSERIAL as administrator.

Running GuzziDiag or IAW5X Reader I cannot see the port - in GuzziDiag the Connect selection from the File menu is greyed out - with a Disconnected message at bottom of window.

When attempting to READ the ECU map with IAW5X Reader - after selecting the directory and filename for the file, get error message 'Was Not Able to Open'.
I have granted permissions to the directory for any to read/write via the "chmod" command...

'lsusb' command shows the FTDI device

?

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 19, 2016, 10:05:19 AM
Drivers extracted to directory called GuzziDiag

?
Sounds like the driver isn't loading.

Does the COM port show up in the 'device manager'?

Have you run the "AdapterTest" to see if it communicates?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 19, 2016, 10:09:45 AM
What is "device manager"?

From the Lonelec.co.uk support webpage:

"the FTDI VCP driver is built into the Linux kernel"

lsusb shows the device on the port...

twowings@RoadAmerica:~$ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 8087:07dc Intel Corp.
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:8000 Intel Corp.
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 04f2:b3b1 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 058f:6366 Alcor Micro Corp. Multi Flash Reader
Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0403:6001 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd FT232 USB-Serial (UART) IC
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
twowings@RoadAmerica:~$
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Red Dog on May 19, 2016, 10:28:43 AM
OK.  Might be a bit difficult for you if you do not know what Device Manager is.  It is part of the computer that allows you to see what hardware is being used & what drivers are installed.  I would highly recommend you get somebody who has computer knowledge to help you with this.

You should not use the drivers that came with the cables.  If you will go back to the first page of this thread and read carefully you will find links to the proper drivers, download them.

Now get some help with this because you will need to get rid of the old drivers & use the correct drivers but if you don't know how to find & use the device manager it would be too hard for any one to walk you through it.

We all had to learn this stuff just like we all learned how to rebuild carbs & engines many years ago. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 19, 2016, 10:40:27 AM
"the FTDI VCP driver is built into the Linux kernel"

Oops, I missed the Ubuntu part.

Did you try the adapter test?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 19, 2016, 10:57:52 AM
Yes, adapter test returns same error...firewall is OFF

dmesg | grep FTDI shows FTDI connected to ttyUSB0 which is correct...


I think it must be a access permissions error of some sort....going to research the USB port permissions...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: NWrider on May 19, 2016, 04:52:30 PM
I've ordered a "B" roller kit for my 2010 Stelvio and am wondering if there's a different fueling map to use when the change is made.   I have the single lambda and the bike is stock.  I've tried searching this thread, but haven't found an answer.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Xlratr on May 19, 2016, 05:28:35 PM
I've ordered a "B" roller kit for my 2010 Stelvio and am wondering if there's a different fueling map to use when the change is made.   I have the single lambda and the bike is stock.  I've tried searching this thread, but haven't found an answer.

I have a single lambda roller map for a Stelvio. You're welcome to try it of you want. Just send me a PM with your email address.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 20, 2016, 03:18:40 AM
 Twowings, have you tried running GuzziDiag as root?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 20, 2016, 06:19:03 AM
Yes...and absolutely nothing happens...no gui interface...no error message...nothing
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 20, 2016, 07:04:34 AM
OK, so you get no GUI? You're running from a shell or the desktop?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on May 20, 2016, 07:33:08 AM
OK, so you get no GUI? You're running from a shell or the desktop?

Hmmm? Yes, it's addictive, just try and ignore the dross. There are a lot of good people here :thumb:

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 20, 2016, 08:17:40 AM
Or trying to run the 64 bit version under 32 bit Linux? But that would throw an error. It's late and I'm tired.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 20, 2016, 08:53:54 AM
Ubuntu 16.04 is 64-bit OS...using 64-bit Linux apps from http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/ (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/)

desktop and command line....no joy...

Here's debug output from 'gksu' command:

twowings@RoadAmerica:~/GuzziDiag$ gksudo -u root -d AdapterTest_V1.01_x 64
No ask_pass set, using default!
xauth: /tmp/libgksu-bd4pGP/.Xauthority
STARTUP_ID: gksudo/AdapterTest_V1.01_x64/16853-0-RoadAmerica_TIME3548411
cmd[0]: /usr/bin/sudo
cmd[1]: -H
cmd[2]: -S
cmd[3]: -p
cmd[4]: GNOME_SUDO_PASS
cmd[5]: -u
cmd[6]: root
cmd[7]: --
cmd[8]: AdapterTest_V1.01_x 64
buffer: -GNOME_SUDO_PASS-
brute force GNOME_SUDO_PASS ended...
Yeah, we're in...
xauth: /tmp/libgksu-bd4pGP/.Xauthority
xauth_env: /home/twowings/.Xauthority
dir: /tmp/libgksu-bd4pGP
twowings@RoadAmerica:~/GuzziDiag$

twowings@RoadAmerica:~/GuzziDiag$ gksudo -u root -d GuzziDiag_V0.46_x64
No ask_pass set, using default!
xauth: /tmp/libgksu-7R4MNw/.Xauthority
STARTUP_ID: gksudo/GuzziDiag_V0.46_x64/17916-0-RoadAmerica_TIME3877908
cmd[0]: /usr/bin/sudo
cmd[1]: -H
cmd[2]: -S
cmd[3]: -p
cmd[4]: GNOME_SUDO_PASS
cmd[5]: -u
cmd[6]: root
cmd[7]: --
cmd[8]: GuzziDiag_V0.46_x64
buffer: -GNOME_SUDO_PASS-
brute force GNOME_SUDO_PASS ended...
Yeah, we're in...
xauth: /tmp/libgksu-7R4MNw/.Xauthority
xauth_env: /home/twowings/.Xauthority
dir: /tmp/libgksu-7R4MNw
twowings@RoadAmerica:~/GuzziDiag$


It prompts for root password then quits....I'm stumped so far...

Here's the output of 'dmesg' command and 'lsusb' command immediately after plugging in USB cable:

 1616.560386] ftdi_sio ttyUSB0: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now disconnected from ttyUSB0
[ 1616.560406] ftdi_sio 2-1:1.0: device disconnected
[ 1710.378370] usb 2-1: new full-speed USB device number 12 using xhci_hcd
[ 1710.512296] usb 2-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0403, idProduct=6001
[ 1710.512302] usb 2-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[ 1710.512304] usb 2-1: Product: FT232R USB UART
[ 1710.512307] usb 2-1: Manufacturer: FTDI
[ 1710.512309] usb 2-1: SerialNumber: AL02BRL5
[ 1710.514942] ftdi_sio 2-1:1.0: FTDI USB Serial Device converter detected
[ 1710.514979] usb 2-1: Detected FT232RL
[ 1710.515264] usb 2-1: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now attached to ttyUSB0
twowings@RoadAmerica:~$ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 007: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 8087:07dc Intel Corp.
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:8000 Intel Corp.
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 058f:6366 Alcor Micro Corp. Multi Flash Reader
Bus 002 Device 012: ID 0403:6001 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd FT232 USB-Serial (UART) IC
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
twowings@RoadAmerica:~$

I have administrator priveleges, 'automatically mount devices' is checked in System>Preferences, and I've tried to use AdapterTest and GuzziDiag both with the wireless USB mouse plugged in and without USB wireless mouse...

The 'COM' port fields in the applications always remain greyed out...

'Connect' in GuzziDiag just greys out after clicking on it and the message at the bottom of GuzziDiag stays at 'Disconnected' ....

I'm sure this is a config issue but I'm at a loss of where to go next...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 20, 2016, 05:11:51 PM
OK, so the GuzziDiag gui opens?

With the cable plugged in and powered, check that you have device USB0 in /dev/tts
Attributes: 666

Create a symlink /dev/ttyUSB0  -> tts/USB0

Even with superuser privileges, make sure you are part of the dialout group.

Let me know how that goes.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 20, 2016, 06:28:53 PM
will do...thanks, beetle!  I'm deeply into Friday night here if you know what I mean...but I will give her a go tomorrow morning...want to try the new Norge map to tame low-RPM throttle response and popping on overrun....
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 24, 2016, 12:46:24 PM
Grabbed the wife's Windows machine and everything went perfectly...didn't even need to trim COs...new map is GREAT...Didnt think I could get any more fond of this bike, but I just did!  Thanks, guys...What a fantastic tool you've given us!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 24, 2016, 04:56:49 PM
Gave up on Linux, eh?    :cry:  :violent1:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 24, 2016, 05:25:48 PM
Yes, I just wanted to have the map loaded before June's many events....haven't ridden it far enough to let auto-learning take over (we're having a full week of thunderstorms) but just got in about 15 miles and the difference is already apparent...I will keep trying linux (which I much prefer) but for now the new map is loaded and I'm happy... :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 24, 2016, 05:35:23 PM
Auto learning is switched off. The map is open loop.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on May 24, 2016, 05:37:18 PM
ooops...my bad...I stand chastised...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 24, 2016, 06:16:02 PM
 :whip2: Damn straight.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: scra99tch on May 26, 2016, 08:04:10 PM
I had once heard and have noticed that the Calvin to V11 Sport map was a good choice, but with heeded warnings that the ignition maps were very different.  So I swapped the 15RC with a 15M V11 Sport  ecu/map and took a look at the two with tuner pro (wish I could compare different .XDF) and noticed that the V11 sport had much more ignition retardation, am I wrong in this observation?  Also I know too much advance can ruin an engine real quick but how about retardation?  I figure just major power loss.  Initial run has me optimistic.

I also have a Rosso Corsa Map which would need me to change back to the 15RC I take it anything else too look out for?

Thanks
Jim

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on May 28, 2016, 04:04:59 PM
Cant get Diag to do anything other than telling me there is an initialization error.  i have the Lonelec leads and have connected to the correct connector but no matter how many tries i have i cant get it to read the ECU

any suggestions
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 28, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Jim, if you're using Windows, do not use the drivers that come with cables. Use these: LINKY (http://www.ftdichip.com/drivers/cdm/cdm20814_setup.exe)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on May 28, 2016, 05:14:42 PM
Thanks Beetle,
I'll  give that a try
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 28, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
Jim (scra99tch),

Keep in mind the CalVin (15RC) map is trimmed by the ECU. The ignition map was made with that consideration. The V11 (15M) map has a bit less advance at low rpm/idle, but more up top where it counts.

Regarding the ignition too much can cause poor performance because the fuel starts burning in the cylinder as opposed to the combustion chamber. This can also result in excess heat in the cylinder block.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on May 29, 2016, 03:09:13 AM
Thanks Beetle,
I'll  give that a try

 little information here, what bike?
when in windows you goto device manager, lookup the port, (with cable connected) and tell us what driver and version is loaded.
what windows version? 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzi ride on May 29, 2016, 08:32:52 AM
Beetle, Just want to say many thanks for the maps you sent to Woody. The Norge runs great now!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on May 30, 2016, 05:38:31 AM
managed to get it to connect to the main Diag programme, but cant get it to connect to the reader ?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 30, 2016, 05:58:59 AM
Are you trying to run GuzziDiag and the reader simultaneously? You can't.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on May 30, 2016, 11:20:56 AM
No,I read that on here. Gave up trying to get reader to connect and tried Dial which worked?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 30, 2016, 04:19:23 PM
Are you using the correct reader version?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on May 31, 2016, 03:32:32 AM
the one listed on GD site - VO.67   tried deleting it and reloading a couple of times but just cant get it to work
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 31, 2016, 03:40:54 AM
You've got the wrong software for your bike. That the 15x Reader. You've got a Norge, right? You need the 5x Reader.  This one: LINKY (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/IAW5xReader_V0.26.zip)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on May 31, 2016, 05:20:06 AM
that would explain it then, many thanks i will try that tonight.  did someone on here say they had a new map for a Norge 8v ?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on May 31, 2016, 05:55:55 AM
That would be me. See the link in my signature.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: zokn on May 31, 2016, 08:18:07 AM
2013 V7 stone map updated successfully!

With the help of this thread, and other threads on this forum, and pm's from Beetle, I have updated my 2013 V7 Stone with the 352BV738 map. I used Guzidiag V0.47, IAWMIUG3Reader V0.04, and IAWMIUG3Writer V0.02. The apps I used are the Mac versions on a MacBook Pro with OSX 10.11.5.

I followed the tutorial at the start of this thread - back 35 pages. I had a couple of stumbles, but Beetle picked me up and helped me along.

First, when I tried to find the new map .bin file (I had placed on my desktop) with the writer app open, I could not locate the file. I scrolled down the list in the writer's far left window and navigated to my desktop, but when I opened the desktop by clicking on the arrow to the file's left, I saw some of my desktop files listed, but not the .bin map files (not the new one nor the old one I had saved).

I solved this by clicking on the name (the text) "desktop" instead of the arrow. This caused a bunch of files to be displayed in the middle (files) window of the writer app. I chose the new map and followed the prompts to load the new map to the bike.

When I opened Guzzidiag to set the TPS, I connected to the bike and followed the tutorial steps, but I could not see a TPS Reset option. A patient and non-judgemental Beetle explained:

"First up, we don't reset the TPS on a V7. In the 'measurements' screen, select 'Throttle' in one of the drop-downs.

If the 'Throttle' reads 0.9 or 1.0, you only need to reset the auto learning parameters.

If the reading is anything other than 0.9 or 1.0, then (and only then), follow these steps:

1) In the top menu, go to View -> Actors
2) In any of the drop down menus select "Reset autolearning parameters", then click start
3) In any of the drop down menus select "Throttle self-learning", then click start.
3) In the top menu, go back to View -> Measurements
4) In any of the drop down menus select "Throttle", the value should now be 0.9 or 1.0.

Done!"

Done, indeed. The only thing I had left to do was to click on the donation button.

Thanks again.

Stephen

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on June 01, 2016, 02:07:12 AM
That would be me. See the link in my signature.

right,  got the reader working,  correct version helps, and saved my map.   did a TPS reset etc.  all fine, easy to do, good practice.  now going to balance the throttle and do the TPS again - but how do you get an allen key into those bloody air screws, impossible !
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on June 01, 2016, 02:12:30 AM
Nah, S'not, just pretend you're a proctologist.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on June 01, 2016, 05:03:51 AM
Nah, S'not, just pretend you're a proctologist.

Pete

 :thumb: had to Google it first though!  :grin:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: jim mac on June 01, 2016, 08:56:40 AM
Nah, S'not, just pretend you're a proctologist.

Pete

i can get my finger in but not my tool. 

everything i have tried is not at right angle or gets obstructed by other parts, you must have a magic tool Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: guzzisteve on June 01, 2016, 09:19:55 AM
I lay on my back and look up w/starter cover off on LH, I use a 5mm 'Ball' end & the short end of a 90*allen on my set clears the mechanism.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on June 01, 2016, 09:20:19 AM
i can get my finger in but not my tool. 

everything i have tried is not at right angle or gets obstructed by other parts, you must have a magic tool Pete

SO many straight lines here.. :evil:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bob on June 04, 2016, 05:14:38 AM
I think I read in another older thread that people with CH340 chipsets had trouble using a Mac and Guzzidiag.
CH340 chipset installs on mac with a port that is similar to /dev/tty.wchserialusb or something like that.
I managed to make some progress after reading on the guzzidiag page:
The USB adapter is searched as /dev/tty.usbserial*, where * is a placeholder.

So I made a symlink from tty.wchusbserial to tty.usbserial1 and I got my com connection in Guzzidiag. Still didn't work as I was using a crap older laptop, the cable didn't work as well from a vmware machine on that laptop, so there's something with the USB.
But at least I got the correct serial port completed in the guzzidiag pop-up menu. So I presume it will work. Hope I have time to test with another mac computer.
Also one can find a way to rename the port file name directly, I tried a symlink and guzzidiag seemed to be happy with it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 05, 2016, 02:36:30 AM
seeing a com port is something else then reliable communicating over it with the right timing. Most ch340 tries fail. It is something we are not putting any effort in. Just buy the right cables for the 20 $ they cost
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: bob on June 07, 2016, 04:15:50 AM
Of-course the right cable is the best cable but, like me, many don't know this issue of ftdi/wch chips. So if they end up with a CH340 one and need to sort out something, the info may help.
My CH340 works very good from an iMac running a virtual machine of Windows 8.1.
Read and wrote the ECU, cleared the errors etc. No problems.
The chip itself does not offer lower quality communication. It's just tech, like the ftdi one. The problem is the driver. But once set up, it works perfect, just like the ftdi one.
The ftdi is easier to use as it has very good drivers, and most infrastructure is designed around it, and is better supported. That's all. The chips do the same things, like two bikes get from A to B.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 07, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Of-course the right cable is the best cable but, like me, many don't know this issue of ftdi/wch chips. So if they end up with a CH340 one and need to sort out something, the info may help.
My CH340 works very good from an iMac running a virtual machine of Windows 8.1.
Read and wrote the ECU, cleared the errors etc. No problems.
The chip itself does not offer lower quality communication. It's just tech, like the ftdi one. The problem is the driver. But once set up, it works perfect, just like the ftdi one.
The ftdi is easier to use as it has very good drivers, and most infrastructure is designed around it, and is better supported. That's all. The chips do the same things, like two bikes get from A to B.

Bob, did it work with 15x or 5am?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Monstro Verde on June 08, 2016, 08:12:10 AM
Hello, all! New member here.

Some days ago I've bought the "A" rollerization kit for my 2010 Norge 8V. After engine rollerization I'm thinking a bit: is it nesessary to write another fuelling map after this modification?

I've tried searching this thread, but haven't found an answer. :(
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on June 08, 2016, 08:30:10 AM
Hello, all! New member here.�

Some days ago I've bought the "A" rollere�zation kit for my 2010 Norge 8V. After en�gine rollerization I'm thinking a bit: is �it nesessary to write another fuelling ma�p after this modification?

I've tried searching this thread, but hav�en't found an answer. :(

 I've not seen any recomendation from guzzi. So:
A:  the camprofile should be close to stock
B:  the camprofile is different but they don't care
C: the stelvio 2 lambda map might fit better, only the tachocorrection should be changed to the one the norge has now. Easy with tunerpro
D: You get a map from Beetle
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Monstro Verde on June 08, 2016, 08:34:28 AM
I've not seen any recomendation from guzzi. So:
A:  the camprofile should be close to stock

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Monstro Verde on June 09, 2016, 10:21:39 AM
And one more stupid question. I've not seen Norge 1200GT 8V in the GuzziDiag drop menu. What should I choose for maximum correct diagnosis and parameters reset?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zinfan on June 14, 2016, 05:38:05 PM
Going to need some help here.  '15 Stelvio and my LoneLec cables are assigned to Com21 using driver version 2.12.16.0 dated 3/9/16 from FTDI.  I am using a Surface Pro 4 with Windows 10 and I downloaded the drivers for it based on the first post in this thread. 

My issue is that IAW5xReader ver0-24 will not allow me to pick Com21, it only lists Com19.  I can connect GuzziDiag at com21 and that seems to work fine.  I've tried to update the driver for Com21 but windows says I have the most up to date versions.  Any ideas?

EDIT:  I looked and realized the drivers listed on the front page are version 2.8.30.0 so I loaded them onto Com21 but IAW5xReader still will not allow me to pick Com21
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 14, 2016, 06:13:08 PM
You should be able to select which com port number is assigned using Device Manager.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zinfan on June 14, 2016, 06:27:29 PM
Thanks!  Did that and am now downloading the map on the ECU.  Further question would the 5AM two Lambda  V1.30 map on the GuzziDiag page be a good map to load out and try?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 14, 2016, 07:29:45 PM
That's not a map. It's the XDF file for TunerPro, for displaying maps in a human readable format.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dave Swanson on June 16, 2016, 10:57:12 PM
I just installed Beetle's maps on the new Norge and V7.   A very noticeable improvement everywhere.  Excellent!! :bow: 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: old head on June 17, 2016, 08:40:26 AM
received my cables yesterday from Lonelec, took about 10 days
downloaded guzzidag, writer and reader, and the cable drivers, unzipped and put in specific folders

plugged in cables, didnt get a request for drivers.

opened device manager, ports (com3) and driver tab says

Driver Provider: FTDI
Driver Date     : 3/9/16
Driver Version  : 2.12.16.0

I assume I am good to go here.
Sent PM to Beetle for his recommendation for a map for my 06 Breva 1100, stock bike, no modifications to exhaust or air box.

Old Head
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on June 27, 2016, 01:45:28 AM
Hi

I was fiddling with my B11 yesterday trying to dial out the previous owners misguided decision to adjust the sacred screw   :angry: :angry: .... the good news though is that I'm nearly there  :thumb:

However, whilst in the Actors page I spotted two things

On the Engine Off side  it gives you options for Left and Right Ignition - what does that do or is for

In the Engine on bit it refers to "stepper (Idle control) - again what does this do

I've had a search about but can't see an explanation.

Cheers
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Birch71 on June 29, 2016, 11:11:28 AM
Hey Mark....

So after ages I'm sitting down to load in the map you sent me for the G11. Problem is, it is not reading the file. I click on the folder the file is in, and it doesn't show anything to upload.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Birch71 on June 29, 2016, 11:40:51 AM
Well, that's because I had the wrong writer  :violent1:

Now that I do, I don't have the "ECU" symbol on the dash and the writer can't initialize. Yet I have data on Guzzidiag.

Hmph.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 29, 2016, 04:56:11 PM
Well, that's because I had the wrong writer  :violent1:


That actually happens a lot....



Quote
Now that I do, I don't have the "ECU" symbol on the dash and the writer can't initialize. Yet I have data on Guzzidiag.

Hmph.


Your not trying to run the writer with GuzziDiag open?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on June 29, 2016, 04:58:32 PM
On the Engine Off side  it gives you options for Left and Right Ignition - what does that do or is for

In the Engine on bit it refers to "stepper (Idle control) - again what does this do



Tests for the respective items.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on June 29, 2016, 11:25:19 PM
Cheers Beetle
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Jdcooper on July 02, 2016, 07:03:21 PM
Beetle

Downloaded Guzzi Diag, got the correct cables and it works perfectly. I just had my Stelvio (A5) rollerized and the dealer put the MG map in. It's...OK... but everyone sez there are better. A map-guru sent me a better .bin for the rollerized A5 w aftermarket can; but there are two versions. One w lambda off, and one w it on. Using Guzzi Diag can I tell how my ECU is set up ? This way I can put the right map in on the first try.

Thanks so much !

Coop
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 02, 2016, 07:21:36 PM
The map itself contains the code to turn the lambda on or off.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Jdcooper on July 02, 2016, 08:39:23 PM
Ahh....so !

Being a basic Guzzi neophyte, which mode is best ?
With or without ?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 03, 2016, 06:52:16 AM
I run with it ON. That does not mean it is best, it just means I want to ride more, and fiddle less.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: old head on July 05, 2016, 08:41:28 AM
I wanted to thank all the people who helped this weekend trying to load a new file into the Breva 1100. \

I received files from Paul and Beetle and finally got one of them uploaded.

If you are having trouble, use the adapter test, for whatever reason, after I ran it, I was able to connect.

I ended up having to hook my trickle charger up the battery as it died in the middle of the upload of the new file, so you might want to do that before.

this morning, went outside, unhooked the charger and the Breva fired right up.  Initial impression was it started easier and faster, and idled better with the new file than the OEM file.  Could be me, who knows right

A ride is one the list, but it will have to wait until later, work is piling up in my inbox this morning from the weekend.  Still, its better working from home than having an office job.

Old Head
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: circlip on July 06, 2016, 12:50:58 PM
I successfully used TuneECU on my Bonneville without destroying the bike, so maybe its time to get into GuzziDIAG with the B11. I bought my Triumph cable from Lonelec and it worked perfectly. On the Lonelec website, they state that they will have no cable stock until 12/07/16. I'd prefer to purchase from them, but.... Am I reading their website correctly? Are there any other recommended cable suppliers?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on July 06, 2016, 02:26:00 PM
Here is what I bought from Amazon and the vendor I bought it from. They work fine.


https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Triumph-Motorcycle-TuneECU-Program/dp/B003ZKKMLE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467832808&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+cable+for+triumph+motorcycle

https://www.amazon.com/Goliton%C2%AE-OBD2-Connector-Diagnostic-Adapter/dp/B0053NRLHE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467832976&sr=8-1&keywords=goliton+obd+obd2+16+pin+connector+diagnostic+adapter+for+fiat

Check the OBD cable for wires to be on the correct pin. The one I got was fine, only takes a moment to check.

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on July 12, 2016, 01:29:01 AM
If I've understood this correctly, the narrow band Lambda sensor fitted to my B11 should cycle roughly 3 times a second between 0.1V and 0.9V, (100-900mV)  once the bike is up to operating temperature.

I also know that I can see the Lambda voltage displayed in Guzzidiag

So, I know its not precise but can I infer that if the voltage displayed is outside the parameters above (cycles only once a second for example) I have a faulty/sluggish Lambda sensor

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 12, 2016, 08:40:52 AM
If I've understood this correctly, the narrow band Lambda sensor fitted to my B11 should cycle roughly 3 times a second between 0.1V and 0.9V, (100-900mV)  once the bike is up to operating temperature.

I also know that I can see the Lambda voltage displayed in Guzzidiag

So, I know its not precise but can I infer that if the voltage displayed is outside the parameters above (cycles only once a second for example) I have a faulty/sluggish Lambda sensor

I put a narrow band sensor in a crossover pipe to learn how they worked, and to tweak the carbs on a carbed bike. I would often get it to operate in the 500 to 600mv range. Plus GuzziDiag doesn't update at a really high rate.
So no, I don't think it is possible to see it cycling like that. At least I doubt it through GuzziDiag.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on July 14, 2016, 11:21:31 AM
McAfee is quarentining the iaw15xreader every time I try to download it. Is there a real trojan in there as McFee suggests, or are they false alarming on anything not blessed by Micro $oft?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 14, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
McAfee IS a virus.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on July 14, 2016, 03:36:55 PM
My opinion also. I disconnected the stupid cloudbook from the internet and it ran the ap just fine, but still getting no readings. I'm half tempted to sort through the whole couple hundred posts on this thread to boil it down to a usable how-to so I can get Guzzidiag to work.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on July 14, 2016, 04:22:16 PM
GearheadGrrrl,

Not sure what the problem is? You should have your cables, GuzziDiag, the reader and writer for your ECU and you should be good to go.

From your last post, it almost read that you were trying to get info with the reader. GuzziDiag is for the info, reader and writer only work to up/download the file on the ECU.

Let us know more?
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on July 14, 2016, 06:58:58 PM
I was following the instructions on page 1, which told me to use the reader. I've tried Guzzidiag with three different computers running Windoze and Mac OS with little or no success. Best result was managing to get some data while running under OSX, but it wouldn't save any data. I think part of the problem is that this whole thread needs to be cleaned up and updated into a howto. Another problem may be that Guzzidiag was written for older OSs like Windoze XP that are no longer available, and doesn't work "out of the box" with the Windoze 10 I'm now stuck with.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dave Swanson on July 14, 2016, 07:14:57 PM
What bike are you working on?  And remember, only one application open at a given time; writer, reader, and Guzzidiag.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 14, 2016, 07:22:58 PM
I'm sorry the tutorial isn't written in "Spoonfed 101" language. The first post on the Reader tells you how to backup your map. It doesn't say "you must do this first".

For Windoze users, this howto also says to download correct drivers. The guzzidiag software runs fine on Windows 10. And Linux. And MacOS. I'm sorry if I assumed you might have a clue how to use a computer.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: twowings on July 14, 2016, 07:39:16 PM
It works fine with Win10...took me less than 12 minutes for the whole save/write/reset TPS routine...the first page of the thread is all you need...you have a config or install problem...McAfee is NOT state-of-the-art software...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Markcarovilli on July 14, 2016, 08:16:14 PM
It works fine with Win10...took me less than 12 minutes for the whole save/write/reset TPS routine...the first page of the thread is all you need...you have a config or install problem...McAfee is NOT state-of-the-art software...

 :1:

Absolutely no problem with Windows 10.

Mark

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on July 14, 2016, 09:31:51 PM
I'm not the expert here....With that said....

It sounds like you have the correct cables to link a PC/Tablet to the bike via USB.

You have downloaded and installed GuzziDiag as well as well as the reader and the writer.

I would start with GuzziDiag (GD for short) and make sure you can connect to the bike.

Once the cable driver is properly installed on your PC/Tablet and the cables are hooked to the bike. Start GD and select file/preferences and select the bike you have, Quota I believe. Com is usually right, but if it does not connect, try a different number and repeat the connection process. Click connect and follow the prompts. Once connected GD will give you the info on your bike, like temp, throttle position and the like.

If GD does not connect, it's probably a wrong com port selected or a cable driver problem. Much of this post/thread is related to connection problems and how to solve them with various OS's. I still need to fix a com issue where I have a 50/50 chance on which port I need to use, one day I'll fix that when I have the time LOL.

I hope this helps a bit. The GD software is pretty easy. The cable driver can be tough. For the driver give the thread a read. GD does have some querks with the prompts, found a few and have lead others around them once I figured it out.

If you can narrow down your problem, I'm sure it can be solved.

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: PJPR01 on July 15, 2016, 09:21:28 AM
Another huge vote for Beetle's map...got it installed on my 2008 Norge and the bike has been transformed.  It's a night and day difference in smoothness, vibration and feeling...I'm absolutely amazed at the difference.

Thanks Chris (TwoWings) for lending me the cables...got a set on the way now for the future...GD software/read/write process was super easy.

You techie guys are amazing...I'm only kicking myself for not having done this years ago...the bike feels like a 4 cylinder in smoothness by comparison now...will have a nice long run on it this weekend.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on July 15, 2016, 12:02:25 PM
I'm sorry the tutorial isn't written in "Spoonfed 101" language. The first post on the Reader tells you how to backup your map. It doesn't say "you must do this first".

For Windoze users, this howto also says to download correct drivers. The guzzidiag software runs fine on Windows 10. And Linux. And MacOS. I'm sorry if I assumed you might have a clue how to use a computer.

Beetle, get over your sexism. I learned how to code in the 60s, qualified as a tech at the Post Office, and have been playing with Linux since the late 90s, including installing it on an early netbook. The problem may be with the connections on my bike, being that I haven't been able to make it work with several different computers. The cable tests OK, but it's a newer one that doesn't have the negative lead so that could be the problem. There is also the possibility that all the "forking" of the various OSs has produced newer "upgraded" OSs that Guzzidiag won't totally work on, to say nothing of the differences between the cloudbook, laptop, and desktop versions of Windoze 10. To fix these glitches we need everyone's help and I was tempted to offer to compile and update the howto so you don't have to read through 37 pages to use it. But heck, if you wanna be king geek of Guzzidiag, who am I to stop you?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 15, 2016, 06:20:52 PM
Get over yourself. I don't give a shit what your gender is. Some of the smartest people I know are female. Also, your claim of coding since I was a boy and using Linux since 90's (who didn't?) just tells me your elevated ego won't allow you look past the bleeding obvious that it's not GuzziDiag or Windows 10. Quite a few computer-challenged folk have managed to get it to work without crying or bitching. Boo hoo. All you need to know is in the first few posts, if you can't figure it it out, it's you, not the software. I would have been happy to assist you, but now you can bugger off.

BTW, you are not "stuck" with Windows 10. Did you think to try to boot Linux with a USB drive? Your such a Linux expert you could have had it running in no time. You must be a Linux expert, you've been using since the 90's....
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on July 15, 2016, 08:30:48 PM
Yup, loaded Linux onto a bootable thumb drive a couple years back, now trying to remember where I put it. Spent the day bringing a Mac Mini back to life by making a bootable OSX thumb drive for it, got it running, reinstalled Parallels, and now reinstalling Windoze 8. Yea, I know, I'm a dumb female who has difficulty finding the power switch...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 15, 2016, 08:35:45 PM
Yea, I know, I'm a dumb female who has difficulty finding the power switch...


Enough of that! I'm no misogynist and detest same. Stop it. Remember to make sure your user is part of the dialout group.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 18, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
If nobody else can flick it to you I have a Norge in for rollerisation at the moment, I can rip the map out of it and email it to you.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 18, 2016, 04:43:40 PM
I've sent the stock map to him, Pete.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 18, 2016, 04:59:25 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 18, 2016, 08:57:28 PM
Thanks for the offer Pete, as Beetle said, he sent me a copy.  I deleted the post so as to not put anybody out.

So after getting a copy of the Stock Map, I compared it to the Map that Steak (Steve) pulled off my bike last week (pulled off and reloaded) and compared them in the Auto Tune App.  My hope was that the Map was corrupted or changed to limit revs, but no such luck.  I have ZERO idea what all the data means, but when I ran the comparison, there were no variations between the two.  To test if I was doing it right I compared it to the Beetle Map and there were about 12,000 differences. **Because I dont trust my monkey fingers, I made a copies of the files when I loaded them to compare so I wouldn't corrupt them.

I was hoping it was ECU related, but now it looks like it is something else. It feels like a fuel problem, going lean under any kind of load from 6200 & higher. Below that and it pulls very strong. That it happens under load and spr, I'm thinking NOT spark, but fuel. The bike runs perfect, sounds and pulls strong runs great right up to the 6200 mark then if put under any load just bogs and hangs at 6200-6500. If I let of the throttle and just lightly accelerate it will spin to redline.

I dont know enough about vaccum lines or such on the motor, but all looks to be plugged in and tight. The vent line from the case stuck under the snorkel perplexed me for a bit, but I traced it to the case.  For kicks, while I am waiting for my appt at MI, I am going to reset the learning parameters, and reset tps to see if that changes anything, then load the stock Map I got from Beetle (+resets) followed by the Beetle Map and see what it changes.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 18, 2016, 09:16:21 PM
Reflashing a map might cure it. I've cured a few high idle issues by reflashing. You never know....


12,000 differences? I have been a busy boy, haven't I? :laugh:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 18, 2016, 10:41:47 PM
What is the TPS saying its at now? If you haven't re-set it and it's not at 4.8, (Or very close. Like + or- .2) then someone may of fiddled with a stop screw or the linkage rod.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: OlderSlower on July 19, 2016, 07:10:51 AM
I just ordered the cables from Lonelec.  When they arrive should I download the drivers from the very first post of this lengthy thread or are there other drivers that I should install?  Thanks  for all of the guidance.  Old guy here in a scary electronic land...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on July 19, 2016, 09:28:53 AM
Reflashing a map might cure it. I've cured a few high idle issues by reflashing. You never know....


12,000 differences? I have been a busy boy, haven't I? :laugh:

Is reflashing as simple as taking a copy of what's on the bike using IAWxxReader and then putting it back on using IAWxxWriter or is there something more to it?

.... and yes you have been  :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 19, 2016, 10:09:13 AM
What is the TPS saying its at now? If you haven't re-set it and it's not at 4.8, (Or very close. Like + or- .2) then someone may of fiddled with a stop screw or the linkage rod.

Pete

I think when Steak reset it it went to 4.7 or 4.8, it was at 4.6.  I'm not sure if he also reset the learning parameters. From looking at all the screws on the TB's it looks to me like none have been messed with. No cracks in the sacred yellow paint
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: chrisk on July 19, 2016, 12:42:27 PM
Hi, I got my cables from lonelec, and I let it install the drivers... The start of this post says don't. What's the best way to remove them or shall I just download the ones from the link and see if they overwrite and work ok?

Secondly, how do I know what ecu I have, a 5eu or one of the following - 15M/15P/15RC

It for a 2016 v7 special ii

Thanks
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 19, 2016, 02:17:44 PM
Hi, I got my cables from lonelec, and I let it install the drivers... The start of this post says don't. What's the best way to remove them or shall I just download the ones from the link and see if they overwrite and work ok?


Windows? Use the Device Manager to remove them, then grab the drivers from the link in the first post.


Quote
Secondly, how do I know what ecu I have, a 5eu or one of the following - 15M/15P/15RC

It for a 2016 v7 special ii



The V7 II has the MIU G3.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 19, 2016, 02:22:11 PM
Is reflashing as simple as taking a copy of what's on the bike using IAWxxReader and then putting it back on using IAWxxWriter or is there something more to it?

.... and yes you have been  :bow: :bow:


I suppose you could do that, but I always overwrite it from a copy on my PC. Just in case.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 19, 2016, 02:24:26 PM
From looking at all the screws on the TB's it looks to me like none have been messed with. No cracks in the sacred yellow paint


What about the linkage rod?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 19, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Updated the howto for the current version links, plus added Throttle Self Learning for the V7.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on July 19, 2016, 04:33:32 PM

I suppose you could do that, but I always overwrite it from a copy on my PC. Just in case.

That sounds like quite a key intermediate step  :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: River Rat on July 19, 2016, 11:47:47 PM
Thanks for the great tutorial Beetle  :thumb:, no problems at first attempt (using Lonelec cable ,correct driver and Windows 10 on laptop), hooked 'er up, opened up the reader, turned on the key as instructed and 15 minutes later the map was downloaded
As this is my first Guzzi I am intending to run on the stock map for a while to get a baseline feel for it before I make any changes (I will do basic stuff such as TPS re-set though)
Cheers, John  :boozing:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 20, 2016, 02:31:15 AM

What about the linkage rod?

Hmmm.  Its there ;-) doesn't look like anything has been messed with, but who knows. I will see what happens with a remap and resetting, then load your map. Either way I have a service appt for the fuel level/sender to be replaced, and if I havent gotten this straightened out will let the dealer deal with it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: NWrider on July 20, 2016, 09:41:16 PM
I guess I'm not very good at searching this thread for information on maps available for the 2v Norge.  Are there any such for stock and/or with a slip on like Leo Vince or Staintune?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 22, 2016, 12:24:08 AM
Got my cables in the mail today, loaded up the drivers and decided to go see what I could see.

All went well until I connected to the bike, I could not get the all important ECU plug message on the dash.

I know that the cable drivers are good, com5 pops up when it it plugged in. I also know that the Diag program is talking to the bike, I selected Norge 1200 GT (bike is a Norge 8VGT)  I was able to connect to the bike, it showed the current map date, and live data as well. I started the bike with it connected and checked out live data.

What it WONT do is show the ECU plug, or read hence not write to the ECU.

Any ideas on this?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 22, 2016, 12:27:55 AM
Are you using the 'Writer' programme or just connecting the Guzzidiag diagnostic one?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: tris on July 22, 2016, 12:28:49 AM
I've never seen the ECU plug but it all appears to work Ok.That's only GuzziDiag though. Not tried to read/write yet

HTH
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 22, 2016, 12:30:30 AM
Are you using the 'Writer' programme or just connecting the Guzzidiag diagnostic one?

I havent tried the 'writer' program, but have tried the Guzzi Diag and the Reader. Follow the on off instructions and the reader times out.

I know that it should show this and did last week when Steak hooked up to the bike and did a reflash
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 22, 2016, 12:37:36 AM
When you are uploading a map it clears the memory and that's when you get the unplugged symbol. Can't remember if you get it when you're reading but it isn't clearing the memory when you are.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 22, 2016, 12:43:06 AM
When you are uploading a map it clears the memory and that's when you get the unplugged symbol. Can't remember if you get it when you're reading but it isn't clearing the memory when you are.

I'll figure it out, but at this point it will not show the plug symbol in the dash and when I try to read the map and save it it just shows a connecting countdown then times out and closes the dialog box.  It is communicating with the ECU but nor correctly.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 22, 2016, 12:54:42 AM
Are you sure you're using the correct version of the Reader?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: OlderSlower on July 22, 2016, 06:45:11 AM
Really dumb question here, but where do I get maps and how do I know which map might be best for me?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 22, 2016, 06:48:40 AM
You read up on what's available, ask questions of other people who use the various options and make a decision.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: OlderSlower on July 22, 2016, 06:50:21 AM
I'm doing the reading part, but where do I find a map to buy? 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on July 22, 2016, 07:05:35 AM
Look at the sig line in Beetles posts or John, who posts as Xltra has maps too, there are plenty of other sources or you can try building your own if you're game. I suggest avoiding sources that try to sell you a 'Package' of crap to go with the map, (Air filters, sensor foolers, pipes that don't fit, that sort of thing.) and ask questions. Many people selling miracles don't actually understand the first thing about engines.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: OlderSlower on July 22, 2016, 07:17:16 AM
Thanks, will try to do my due diligence!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 22, 2016, 10:10:08 AM
Are you sure you're using the correct version of the Reader?

I'm a retard.   I downloaded the programs direct from the Guzzi Diag page (confusing red screen) and downloaded the ones for the #15 ECU.  I knew I needed the one for the 5, but somehow got the 15. Thanks for your shortcuts on page 1 it got me straight.

So I am assuming that the Guzzi-Diag does not show the ECU plugged in message?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 22, 2016, 04:37:33 PM
No.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on July 22, 2016, 05:22:24 PM
All is good to go. Before heading to work this morning I downloaded the existing map, uploaded the stock map I got from Beetle, reset the TPS, and learning parameters, and also did the running test that was available, which cycled the idle circuit a few times and lowered it to 1200 (was at 1350 +/-)

Haven't ridden yet.  I also goofed around with the live functions such as reading the lamda circuits. Which of the choices (there are 3) should be used to track Lamda measurements?  I expected the cyls to be about equal but they are way off.

Will go for test ride after work today and see what the deal is and if the fresh map and other changes help. Motor seems to start and idle much better, but I think my TB's are way out of balance.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on July 22, 2016, 07:39:13 PM
Do the TB balance ASAP. It will do wonders. I wouldn't expect lambda values to be equal after an autolearning reset. The left map is the main map. The right (delta) map was never right from the factory (not that the main map is a design wonder), so the AFR will be way different in each side at idle until the trimming starts. Even then, it they will never read exactly the same because, a) the sensors are slow, and b) I wouldn't expect the AFR to ever be equal due to the limitations of the stock map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: johnk on July 26, 2016, 07:40:31 AM
I wanted to take a moment to thanks Beetle and all of the others who have contributed to this. I spent the weekend installing linux on a very old macbook I had (too old to run OS X 10.9 and easily get drivers for the cables) and getting everything working and I was finally able to slightly retard my ignition timing to greatly reduce the horrible detonation my bike has had since new.
I was also very relieved to see how nicely Tunerpro works under Wine.
There's still other work for me to do but 95% of my problem appears fixed.
Thanks!  :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: chrisk on July 26, 2016, 01:10:36 PM
Hi all, just to say that I've just uploaded a 'v7 II nocat with pipes' map for my machine and its transformed.

I said in an earlier post that my v7ii didn't feel as... responsive/powerful/gutsy as my old v7 classic but the map has transformed the bike, and I'm not exaggerating. There is a little popping on overrun but I don't mind that,  it's only slight and occasional.

The annoying snatch is still there which I've read in a recent review of the bike in a mag, but I think that's a function of the new single body injection, not sure tbh. I'm going to try taking more of the play out to see if that helps.

Beetle : top job, easily worth the money spent.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: MorenoB on August 02, 2016, 03:33:34 AM
I wanted to take a moment to thanks Beetle and all of the others who have contributed to this. I spent the weekend installing linux on a very old macbook I had (too old to run OS X 10.9 and easily get drivers for the cables) and getting everything working and I was finally able to slightly retard my ignition timing to greatly reduce the horrible detonation my bike has had since new.
I was also very relieved to see how nicely Tunerpro works under Wine.
There's still other work for me to do but 95% of my problem appears fixed.
Thanks!  :thumb:

I also want to thank Beetle, Pauldaytona and all the staff (especially the programmer Beard) who had developed this software. I've just upgraded the map on my V7 MY 2014 and all the process went smoothly and perfectly. Thanks also to the italian user who sent me the last factory map.
 :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: mermoto on August 04, 2016, 07:42:39 AM
Wow, this has been such an interesting thread.  Coming from using Tuneecu on my KTM 690 which worked great I now discover Guzzidiag for my UK 2015 V7ii Stone.  I have downloaded the programs and have the cables so going to plug in this afternoon for a look at what I got.  I have been using the Finebau Module since fitting my Mistrals without Db killer and it has worked well but I feel there is more to gain with a correct map and prefer the idea of loosing the extra device currently fitted.  What I have not found here is a map suitable for the V7ii Stone fitted with open Mistrals?  Obviously missed something so can anyone guide me where to look please?   :bow:

Cheers in advance and will keep you posted how I progress.

Safe and happy riding,  :thumb:

A little pic of my baby shortly after I bought her  :smiley:

(http://www.zen73107.zen.co.uk/bike/guzzi/IMG_1230edit-1noplateweb1.jpg)

Mermoto

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: mermoto on August 04, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
OK, so setup and connection worked first go thanks to Beetle's clear instructions and this is the map I have currently installed on my 2015 V7ii  = Software: 4533V740 build 01-12-2014  (bike purchased February 2015).

I understand this is the first map from the factory on the V7ii and it runs OK with standard bike exhausts.  Having fitted the Mistral open pipe I installed the Finbau device to improve fueling which works pretty well but I really now want to map it with a corrected map for these pipes so any direction from you tech guys would be fantastic?

In my man cave

(http://www.zen73107.zen.co.uk/bike/guzzi/maping.jpg)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 04, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
I have built a map for such a beast. See my signature.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 07, 2016, 08:27:34 PM
I've created a PDF version of the tutorial. I've added a link to the first post in this thread.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Markcarovilli on August 08, 2016, 04:54:38 AM
Thanks for the pdf - makes it easier yet....

Mark
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: craigclu on August 18, 2016, 11:05:58 AM
2014 Norge, Guzzidiag hooks up correctly (seemingly).  It links and provides the info in the drop downs and connects on COM4.  The reader only shows COM3 as a selection.  My lap top is a Win 10 system.  Any ideas as to why the other COM port isn't showing itself to the reader?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 18, 2016, 12:25:29 PM
Are you trying to run GuzziDiag and Reader simultaneously? Don't.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 18, 2016, 12:26:09 PM
2014 Norge, Guzzidiag hooks up correctly (seemingly).  It links and provides the info in the drop downs and connects on COM4.  The reader only shows COM3 as a selection.  My lap top is a Win 10 system.  Any ideas as to why the other COM port isn't showing itself to the reader?

Do you have GuzziDiag opened at the same time that you open the reader?

Only one program at a time can see the com port.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: craigclu on August 18, 2016, 02:06:08 PM
That was it...  Had Guzzidiag running so a forehead flattening moment.  I was able to save my stock map and when attempting to upload a map, it stalled about 1/3 of the way through, got a "Something went wrong" message and to re-try.  It continues to stall at different points of the upload.  It's doing it when I attempt to re-install the stock bin and the bike just shows the ECU dashboard signal and the bike is dead (with everything unhooked).  The erase step must be working!  I've disabled what I can of security (Bitdefender and Malwarebytes) in case those are interceding.  Any thoughts?

Sign me,

Nervous in Wisconsin
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 18, 2016, 04:41:21 PM
Ye gods! I hate windows. Try running the Reader as administrator.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on August 18, 2016, 04:56:07 PM
Did you try re-booting the Win10 computer? Might try the simple thing first if you haven't done it already.

Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: craigclu on August 18, 2016, 05:26:47 PM
A re-boot didn't change things...  I am assuming that my cables are correct as it did everything expected up until the upload step with the writer.  I've got someone relatively close-by with a known set of cables.  Perhaps that's worth a try as a next step.  Just a pretty statue in the garage at this point!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on August 18, 2016, 05:32:42 PM
Don't panic. You can't brick your ECU.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: craigclu on August 19, 2016, 04:25:04 PM
Kevin Hahn of Scrambler Cycle popped in this afternoon and we hooked his cables up to my computer.  Things worked as they should and the Norge lives again.  For some reason, his cables triggered my COM5 and didn't show COM4 as my cable set did (no COM5 with mine).  It was likely in my cable set.  Everything worked with my cables except the writer process...  Maybe I have one of the Fiat cables with the switched 5 & 6 pins that I saw mentioned somewhere?

I hope my experience helps someone looking for answers in the future here!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on August 19, 2016, 04:28:56 PM
Glad to hear it's up and running again!!
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 02, 2016, 08:05:08 PM
Updated the PDF version of the tutorial. Edited some of the TPS reset/MUI G3 stuff, plus it's now better quality. Download link in first post.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 01:08:29 AM
How come this isn't a sticky?  :thumb:

Couple of questions, bike is 2003 EV Touring, hydro model, 15m ECU.
Plugged into to make some CO trim adjustments. That went fine.
However I have no "TPS reset" function or the "Rest autolearn" function
Is that normal for this model?
If so, does pulling the EFI fuse clear that? I'd quite like to clear that.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on September 03, 2016, 01:25:50 AM
TPS is a physical adjustment on your bike. Unless you have turned off the lambda input playing with the CO trim will achieve nothing. Not certain about stored trims on the 15M-RC but pulling the main fuse should clear any saved data.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 01:30:56 AM
Yeah I know adjustment is a physical thing, but there is also a "reset" shown on the first page of this thread. Is that not applicable to the 15m? 
The CO trim adjustment definitely made a difference, I richened it up a bit and not it's masses better below 3000 rpm around town. I gather the "turn off lambda sensor" is a Tunerpro thing, not a Guzzidiag?
I'm not confident enough to play with map adjustments.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 02:12:46 AM
TPS reset does not apply to the 15M. As Pete says, it a manual adjustment. 15M also does not have lambda. It's pre emissions BS. Ergo, no autolearning parameters.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 02:14:49 AM
Cheers
When you say doesn't have an o2 you're meaning  the reset function? Because there is most certainly a sensor on the bike
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 02:23:54 AM
It does? Well, bugger me lonesome.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 02:40:50 AM
Interesting. Thanks, I learnt something. Seems an odd beastie! Can you please tell me the map your running? Info box in GuzziDiag should tell. I need to know more!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 02:42:38 AM
I'll plug it back in tomorrow and take a look.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on September 03, 2016, 02:48:54 AM
Mark, the 2003 Hydro valve models were, (From memory.) the first ones to use the 15M-RC and have a NBO in the crossover under the gearbox. 15M-RC seems to be a much simpler, more 'Linear' beast than the W5AM with all its interpolative features.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 03:07:41 AM
In my brief search, there seems to be two years that used the 15M with lambda, 2003/2004. After that, it was the 15RC. Not every model in 2004 had them either. The 2004 V11 had both versions. I presume it was build date dependent. Curious. Now how to turn off lambda?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 03, 2016, 06:02:34 AM
No the 15m is without lambda, 15rc is with lambda. In these years, guzzi has sold the lambda ones where they had too, and to  less restrictive markets(USA) the 15m ones. The v11 wireloom was identical, difference was only an extra pin connected on the ecu and the lambda sensor connector. You can swap the 15m and 15rc on these years, and connect lamda or not. And since guzzidiag the 15rc can do without.

The tps reset function is only for lineair TPS So the 15rc can do tpsreset, but that should not be used on the cali and v11 series(pf3c), so with guzzidiag we deactivated it when such a bike is chosen. The breva 750 has the lineair pf1c that can be reset. 

I know someone who first used guzzidiag on a breva and forgot to change to v11 when he conneted his bike, and then did the tps reset. It has cost him lot of time to get it right again.

Now since there is the eeprom reader, the reset setting could be read fom an stock similar bike and writen to a bike where the tps reset is accidentaly used.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 06:27:28 AM
No argument from me Paul. Man says he has a 15M with a O2 sensor, who am I to argue?   (http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/18/91/78/64/image17.png)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 07:02:55 AM
Unless I'm mistaken about the ecu it has...
How do you tell for sure?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on September 03, 2016, 08:46:32 AM
Look for the sensor in the pipe crossover.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on September 03, 2016, 09:00:26 AM
In the US and most of the world, the 2003 and 2004 had the 15M, not the 15RC. So no lambda.
The 15RC was sold in Switzerland and a few others where needed. It had cats on the mufflers as well as the lambda in the crossover. The mufflers had heat shields.

Even easier, Guzzidiag displays it.

A 2003 EV in the US (and most of but not all of the world) did not have a lambda.

Can you get a photo?
"gotpics:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 03, 2016, 09:09:38 AM
No argument from me Paul. Man says he has a 15M with a O2 sensor, who am I to argue?   (http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/18/91/78/64/image17.png)

Well as I told, you can mount a lambda on these bikes, with a 15m it won't do anything with it.
Maybe ecu was changed out, or factory mistake. Interesting to know what map is in it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on September 03, 2016, 11:48:14 AM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cnB6GF/DSC_5304.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cnB6GF)


Finally got it to work, does this look normal for a Quota 1100? CO seems to stay at 100 no matter what, but idles way to high all of a sudden. Will look into throttle cables and see if they're hanging up somewhere.

thanks in advance, Diana
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 04:42:48 PM
Guzzi diag doesn't tell you want ecu is in it. It just tells you what you have selected.
If I choose 15rc or 15m it will display the same map numbers and will read all info.
The difference is under the 15rc option it has the o2 reset option under actors but performing it just brings up "error" however it will do other tests such as the rev counter one.

This bike was NZ new and definitely has an o2 sensor.

I pulled the ecu off and it has:
IAW15M.C6
CALIFORNIA P.I.MY02

Numbers coming up in Diag:
61601.035.00
3D02MM26

So it's a 15m and I'm assuming this exact set up with o2 isn't catered for in Guzzidiag.

Connected as a 15rc it reads everything. However under the o2 readings they remain static. Even when I unplug it. Wtf. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 05:02:07 PM
 
Guzzi diag doesn't tell you want ecu is in it. It just tells you what you have selected.
If I choose 15rc or 15m it will display the same map numbers and will read all info.
The difference is under the 15rc option it has the o2 reset option under actors but performing it just brings up "error" however it will do other tests such as the rev counter one.

This bike was NZ new and definitely has an o2 sensor.

I pulled the ecu off and it has:
IAW15M.C6
CALIFORNIA P.I.MY02

Numbers coming up in Diag:
61601.035.00
3D02MM26

So it's a 15m and I'm assuming this exact set up with o2 isn't catered for in Guzzidiag.

Connected as a 15rc it reads everything. However under the o2 readings they remain static. Even when I unplug it. Wtf. 



WTF indeed. I don't have that particular map, but the nomenclature is very 15M. Is the O2 sensor actually connected to the loom?

Something funny going on.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 05:03:13 PM
Appears to be. Wires disappear into the loom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 03, 2016, 05:03:50 PM
mr Revhead,

In 2002 there was no big guzzi with lambda. That started in 2003. The lambda comes in on pin 2 and 8 on a 15rc ecu. Maybe your wires go there but the ecu had no connection inside for it.  The numbers show the 15m with a 15m map without lambda.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 05:06:09 PM
Have we just busted Guzzi for emission cheating?  :copcar:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 05:08:56 PM
Right. I'm not going crazy. As I previously maintained, the 15M doesn't use lambda. I can only guess that Luigi had used a 15RC loom when assembling your bike.   :shocked:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 05:10:06 PM
Have we just busted Guzzi for emission cheating?  :copcar:

What's the build date on the compliance plate?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 05:18:40 PM
Where is that located? Only plate I can find on it doesn't have a date. Just chassis number, db rating, max weight.
That's on the l/h front frame section.

So, maybe mine was assembled during the 15M to 15RC change and ended up with the older ECU.
I might know of a spare RC one some where...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Proof it has an o2! Note it's mounted in the aftermarket cross over
https://goo.gl/photos/JCowgRZBoud6KYD8A

Factory crossover
https://goo.gl/photos/JCowgRZBoud6KYD8A

15M on Guzzidiag
https://goo.gl/photos/NgVDoNPX5QBXZYW49

Loaded as 15RC
https://goo.gl/photos/oyBRZ1yUNZPkmdSP6
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on September 03, 2016, 06:22:28 PM
Proof it has an o2! Note it's mounted in the aftermarket cross over
https://goo.gl/photos/JCowgRZBoud6KYD8A

Factory crossover
https://goo.gl/photos/JCowgRZBoud6KYD8A

15M on Guzzidiag
https://goo.gl/photos/NgVDoNPX5QBXZYW49

Loaded as 15RC
https://goo.gl/photos/oyBRZ1yUNZPkmdSP6


Very odd indeed.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on September 03, 2016, 06:26:06 PM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cnB6GF/DSC_5304.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cnB6GF)


Finally got it to work, does this look normal for a Quota 1100? CO seems to stay at 100 no matter what, but idles way to high all of a sudden. Will look into throttle cables and see if they're hanging up somewhere.

thanks in advance, Diana

How many degrees is the TPS at closed throttle?
You are showing 4000 RPM or so.


My info shows that a Quota should be 1.4 degrees at closed throttle/idle.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on September 03, 2016, 06:33:18 PM
Can't recall the degrees..... I think it was showing .49 volts or something.
I do need to go through the TPS settings procedure.
Yesterday was more about looking at the CO trim as I felt it was a little lean. So I tweaked it and it certainly made a difference.

Maybe next weekend I'll get into it. Right now I have some CX500 heads to strip and clean!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 08:25:51 PM
Where is that located? Only plate I can find on it doesn't have a date. Just chassis number, db rating, max weight.
That's on the l/h front frame section.


Is there a one on the headstock?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 03, 2016, 08:47:33 PM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cnB6GF/DSC_5304.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cnB6GF)


Finally got it to work, does this look normal for a Quota 1100? CO seems to stay at 100 no matter what, but idles way to high all of a sudden. Will look into throttle cables and see if they're hanging up somewhere.

thanks in advance, Diana


Can you clarify regarding the CO trim? Are you saying you can't modify it?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Luap McKeever on September 04, 2016, 07:33:37 AM
Ok bear with me here. I'm jumping into this thread. I want to get the cables, software etc for my wifes 2001 California Special to smooth it out.  I'm about to purchase all the stuff from page 1's recommendation.

Another question I have is, how can I tell what ECU my MGX has in it?  I might want to play with that too.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on September 04, 2016, 07:40:03 AM
Get it from Lonelec, it will just be right.

Don't know the MGX yet, but it you want to take a 'break in' ride to Georgia, we can figure it out. :grin:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Luap McKeever on September 04, 2016, 07:54:18 AM
Get it from Lonelec, it will just be right.

Don't know the MGX yet, but it you want to take a 'break in' ride to Georgia, we can figure it out. :grin:

I did.  I ordered the kit.  Georgia huh?

BTW, the '01 does have a P8 ECU don't it?  Trying to figure out which Reader/Writer software to get.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: John A on September 04, 2016, 07:56:20 AM
01 will have a 15M.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Luap McKeever on September 04, 2016, 08:08:52 AM
01 will have a 15M.

Shoot, I was stuck on the days of my 98 EV.  Thanks.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 04, 2016, 08:43:29 AM
Shoot, I was stuck on the days of my 98 EV.  Thanks.

Luap, mgx has the 7sm, just choose cali 1400 in guzzidiag.

For the cali, does it have the big 7x7"ecu box, or a small cigarette case behind the sindecover?   the big is p8, can't be porgrammed with guzzidiag, the small box, 15m can.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 04, 2016, 08:45:40 AM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cnB6GF/DSC_5304.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cnB6GF)


Finally got it to work, does this look normal for a Quota 1100? CO seems to stay at 100 no matter what, but idles way to high all of a sudden. Will look into throttle cables and see if they're hanging up somewhere.

thanks in advance, Diana

 Co is a reading of the setting in the ecu, so you won't see it changing, unless you change it with guzzidiag. Co setting let it run more or less rich in lower revs. 100 seems a bit high, but if it is running fine, leave it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Luap McKeever on September 04, 2016, 08:49:54 AM
Luap, mgx has the 7sm, just choose cali 1400 in guzzidiag.

For the cali, does it have the big 7x7"ecu box, or a small cigarette case behind the sindecover?   the big is p8, can't be porgrammed with guzzidiag, the small box, 15m can.

Thanks Paul.  Hers is a 15M for sure than.  I thought my dealer said the MGX has a completely new ECU, guess not. 

Where does one get the 7SM software?  Thanks again.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on September 04, 2016, 08:58:40 AM
(Sigh!) All they have to do is look at the spec sheet. There it is! 7SM! How hard can it be?

It probably has different mapping to the earlier bikes that takes into account the effect of the air injection but it's the same ECU with the same inputs as all the previous 1400's.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 04, 2016, 09:51:58 AM
Thanks Paul.  Hers is a 15M for sure than.  I thought my dealer said the MGX has a completely new ECU, guess not. 

Where does one get the 7SM software?  Thanks again.

 Guzzidag does the 7sm, but the reader/writer for maps isn't there yet.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on September 04, 2016, 10:32:31 AM
Can you clear the service icon? Yeah, I know the dash code but not many people do and I've been told my life won't be worth living if I tell anyone. :rolleyes: if you can do it with Guzzidiag it'll at least let me tell people so they stop thinking I'm a bastard! :laugh:

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ArizonaPaul on September 05, 2016, 10:12:05 PM
Recently joined the Stelvio crowd and read through 35 pages of this thread.  I have ordered my cables from the UK and when they arrive I will look at ordering a map from Beetle.  This has been very informative and I look forward to having my Stelvio run as it was intended.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on September 06, 2016, 04:25:41 AM
Can you clear the service icon? Yeah, I know the dash code but not many people do and I've been told my life won't be worth living if I tell anyone. :rolleyes: if you can do it with Guzzidiag it'll at least let me tell people so they stop thinking I'm a bastard! :laugh:

Pete

Well luckily some other bastard posted it right in the open internet:

http://www.mgcn.nl/forum/index.php?showtopic=20186

 now just waiting for a v9 code, but I suppose because the dash is different make, there won't be one.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on September 06, 2016, 06:11:00 AM
How many degrees is the TPS at closed throttle?
You are showing 4000 RPM or so.


My info shows that a Quota should be 1.4 degrees at closed throttle/idle.

With the engine warm I'm getting about 3.5 degrees at closed throttle at 1500 RPM.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on September 06, 2016, 06:14:29 AM
Co is a reading of the setting in the ecu, so you won't see it changing, unless you change it with guzzidiag. Co setting let it run more or less rich in lower revs. 100 seems a bit high, but if it is running fine, leave it.

It fouls spark plugs, though usually only one. Maybe I should try turning the CO down some?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: GearheadGrrrl on September 06, 2016, 06:23:19 AM

Can you clarify regarding the CO trim? Are you saying you can't modify it?

I haven't tried to change the CO, just noting that it stays the same regardless of throttle opening and RPM.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on September 06, 2016, 09:08:53 AM
I haven't tried to change the CO, just noting that it stays the same regardless of throttle opening and RPM.

That CO trim setting is like an idle mixture screw. It stays where you put it.

100 is pretty rich. You might try setting it closer to zero. I assume someone did that for a reason though.
Also, it sounds like your idle speed is too high, causing the TPS to be too high. Like I said, my data shows that it should be 1.4 degrees. But then I never did anything on a Quota, and I know they are finicky.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: redrider on September 06, 2016, 03:02:23 PM
I am puzzled by the error messages. The only one I had pop up was "Not a file type saved by reader but it's you choice" So what are the messages that can show up? And I was able to save and view the stored map anyway.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ArizonaPaul on September 29, 2016, 12:55:54 PM
OK, I ordered the correct cables, download the correct reader, writer, and Guzzi Diag for a Mac, tried to connect and learned I had to disable my anti-virus.  Played with it for a bit just to see what all was on it.

Today I ordered a map from Beetle and went to work loading it.  Read my factory map without a problem.  Opened writer, found the new map, and wrote it to the ECM just like it said it would.  Opened Guzzi Diag and it wouldn't read it at all.Connect, disconnect multiple times.  Finally went and trashed the entire operation and re-downloaded everything including the drivers again and again. Finally got it to say it was connected on my computer, but not on my dash with the ECM icon and the plugs.  What am I'm missing.

I also tried to adjust the CO.  On the measurement page it shows 0 and I tried to adjust it to -3.  The RPM dropped about 100, but there is no where I can find to save the change I made.  Going back to the measurement page CO is still listed as 0 and all other numbers were 1s and 8s.  I shut it down and started over.  Second time was almost a repeat of the first except the numbers all changed to 1s and 3s.

I am going to go out for a ride and see how she runs.  I know her idle sounds better and throttle response seems markedly better sitting in the garage.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 29, 2016, 05:04:23 PM
CO trim adjustments only work when the engine is at 60 degrees C or higher.

The disconnect icon only appears when writing a map.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 29, 2016, 05:12:37 PM
I deleted that reference to the icon.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: ArizonaPaul on September 29, 2016, 06:27:08 PM
Thanks Beetle!  The bike now runs great, she is smooth as silk when rolling away from a light, the choppy, chunky throttle is gone, there is still a bit of a vibration between 3,500 and 3,900 RPM, but I think I need to give it more than 80 miles to settle down.  That and I'm not convinced I am perfect on my throttle body balancing.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on September 29, 2016, 06:45:31 PM
Recheck your TB balance. If you still have a vibe I can maybe tweak the map for you.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: waxi on October 05, 2016, 07:07:23 AM
On V7 II I have three connectors under the seat. One is for OBD, what are other two? One is larger and one smaller...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dilliw on October 05, 2016, 08:02:24 AM
CO trim adjustments only work when the engine is at 60 degrees C or higher.

The disconnect icon only appears when writing a map.

Yeh that got me too!  I was looking for the icon to show up when I connected Guzzidiag but no such luck even though I was getting readings in the software.  Just kept following your excellent pictorial based procedure, however, and everything worked out including eventually seeing the icon. 

Just a quick plug for Mark's map while I have a chance.  The rollered 8V is pretty darn good once you chunk the sucky spark plug caps.  Mark's map makes it "better" by smoothing out the powerband, fixing bad behavior in the lower rpms (down to 2k is easy in any gear), and increasing mpg.  Any one of those is worth the price of his map for a stock bike, and I would assume it would be a must have if you have an aftermarket exhaust.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: LeakyLogic on October 13, 2016, 11:31:02 PM
Besides turning off the O2 sensor, Is a good starting point to increase a stock map's low end fueling (area previously affected by narrow band O2 sensor) by a multiple of roughly 3%. I read how to do this on the tunerPro tutorial by Beetle. I assume this is to compensate for E10 fuel. Or is this a bad idea because the stock map is rich already. Then adjust CO trim as needed. I am trying to understand not just the how, but also the why of it all. I'm working with a stock B1100 map, 2230BA10.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 14, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Given that the trims are generally removing fuel in the closed loop area (<5000 RPM), once you've turned lambda off, and reset the trims, you are usually on the rich side when running a stock exhaust. This will vary with volumetric efficiency. Unless you are logging the AFR, I would not recommend a blanket 3% increase, but use the CO trim. CO trim will modify the pulse-width across the the rev range, but it's affects are greatest at idle and lower RPM due to its apparent non-linear affect.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: janusz on October 20, 2016, 07:28:52 PM
I wonder if this happens to anybody, trying to write a map to my 09 CalVin (the backup of the original) and the process is running already one hour. When I trying to close the window the message "Programming is running" (see below). Not sure what I should do now, it is save to turn ignition off and start again? Thanks!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jBAs6F/20161020_201037.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jBAs6F)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 20, 2016, 09:30:39 PM
Weird. When it's programming, it say "programming"  where it shows "uploading". I'd be tempted to switch the key off. I've done that on purpose with a 5AM, but could not brick the ECU. The writer doesn't delete the software for communication, so you should be OK.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: janusz on October 20, 2016, 10:45:27 PM
Weird. When it's programming, it say "programming"  where it shows "uploading". I'd be tempted to switch the key off. I've done that on purpose with a 5AM, but could not brick the ECU. The writer doesn't delete the software for communication, so you should be OK.

When you say I should be OK it means that I should be able to connect to ECU but at this point the mapping is erased since this is the first function of Writer to erase existing map from the ECU, correct? If mapping is erased I assume the bike will not start, correct?

The first attempt to write the original map was stopped by my laptop which run out battery juice and shut down. At this point I had to turn off ignition and decided to try again. The second attempt failed after about 2 hours and this is messages I received:

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cc0s6F/20161020_224028.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cc0s6F)


(http://thumb.ibb.co/gkXuLa/20161020_230040.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gkXuLa)


(http://thumb.ibb.co/jV48fa/20161020_230135.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jV48fa)

At this point bike battery was almost dead, the lights were very weak despite the fact the bike was hook up to battery tender.

I wonder if 64-bit Windows 8.1 has to do anything with this problem, the COM3 port is assigned by Windows and Windows driver is used. Curious if installing one of those drivers CDM20814_WHQL_Certi fied or CDM_2.08.24_WHQL_Ce rtified will help?

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Wayne Orwig on October 20, 2016, 11:05:18 PM
Unplug the headlight. You may need a 'healthier' charger to keep the bike battery alive.
PLUG IN THE LAPTOP.
Shut down any screen savers or virus scanners.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on October 21, 2016, 12:55:09 AM
..and definitely install the certified drivers.
 
 Yes, you will have start the map load again.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: janusz on October 21, 2016, 06:13:17 AM
Wayne and beetle, thank you very much for your comments and suggestions!

My laptop has no virus scanner install nor screensaver setup. I hope the battery is recovered by now, left overnight on battery tender. I will disconnect the headlight and install certified drivers today. I thought the driver may be the source of problem but when I tried to run GuzziDiag and it worked fine I assume the Writer will work as well.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: janusz on October 21, 2016, 10:48:09 AM
Installation of certified driver (CDM_2.08.24_WHQL_Ce rtified) fixed the problem 100%. Thanks you!
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: PJPR01 on November 07, 2016, 06:47:03 PM
Beetle...

Have you done any work on maps for the V11 Scura? 

I haven't checked yet if the cables I use for the Norge will also work to hook up GuzziDiag for the Scura, but in the event they do and I can get readouts on live values...any suggestions on maps for it?  I have no idea what it's set at right now in terms of trim levels or others.  Rides great, but as I found with the Norge, what feels great stock can always be improved with one of your maps.

Many thanks in advance...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on November 07, 2016, 07:41:45 PM
Not to date. I would love to get my hands on a Scura to remap it.   :evil:

The cables will work. You'll need the 15x versions of the reader & writer. I'm happy to help in any way I can.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on November 07, 2016, 08:24:59 PM
I'd better buy a V11 then when one comes up cheap eh? Perhaps when I turn over the 'Racer'.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: PJPR01 on November 08, 2016, 12:20:54 PM
Not to date. I would love to get my hands on a Scura to remap it.   :evil:

The cables will work. You'll need the 15x versions of the reader & writer. I'm happy to help in any way I can.

Very good...thanks Beetle, I'll hook it up and see what kind of values I get.  From what I understand there is a V11 Scura R somewhere down under I think...a rare bird indeed.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Doublethree on November 10, 2016, 06:33:53 PM
Hello.

Firstly let me thank you for lots of great information about Guzzi Diag. It's taken me weeks to read it all.

Now my question. After downloading the software and buying the cables from the correct place am I wasting my time ?
I have a 2007 California EV. My brother has just told me that I can't replace the map on this ecu. Surely not...

I did notice that nobody was mentioning the California in this thread. If I can't use Guzzi Diag what are my options?
My problem is spluttering at 2000 to 3000 revs. A range I used to like when I had a T3.
If it's not the mapping then what else could it be ?

I would appreciate any information. Thanks again.

Doublethree.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: antmanbee on November 10, 2016, 08:37:02 PM
Doubletree,

Which ecu and engine do you have ? I have an 07 Cal Vin with the dual plug heads and a 15rc ecu. You may have the one plug heads and a 15m ecu. I have maps for each.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on November 11, 2016, 01:59:51 AM
Your brother is wrong.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tudorgates on November 11, 2016, 03:18:37 AM
Quick question,
My Stelvio is going in for a full service and a bit of warranty work (front forks and rear light)
It's the last time the dealer will see it, I'm only letting them due to the warranty.
Is there any need (or point) to putting the original map back in. Can they tell what's in is not a Guzzi map and will it bother them or affect the warranty?
Cheers
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on November 11, 2016, 04:09:29 AM
They can't tell.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pauldaytona on November 11, 2016, 07:13:19 AM
They can't tell.

 Well as long as map ID is the same. And if they do forensics, the other things that were noted in the logfile of the original map download. But most don't have a clue.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Doublethree on November 11, 2016, 08:23:05 AM
Hello again and thanks for your replies.

antmanbee - I have the one plug head and I believe it's the 15m ecu. A map would be appreciated, thank you. I could experiment with it before the warm weather returns.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: antmanbee on November 11, 2016, 09:18:41 AM
Doublethree, check your PM's
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Doublethree on November 11, 2016, 11:55:28 AM
Thanks antmanbee - email sent.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Mr Revhead on November 11, 2016, 07:03:50 PM
Hi antmanbee, I have a 2003 EV with the hydro engine. Do you have maps for that?
I'm also suffering the spluttering and ill running at 2-3000 rpm with light throttle
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: antmanbee on November 11, 2016, 08:33:57 PM
Revhead, check your PM's
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: NWrider on December 25, 2016, 06:21:50 AM
Am I correct in assuming that since there's no selection in the Model menu for the 8v Norge that using either the Griso 8v or the Stelvio 8V will work when resetting the TPS?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on December 25, 2016, 06:28:45 AM
Yup, any of the W5AM bikes will work I believe but stick with an 8V just to be sure. I believe that the TPS reset function is not model specific but I'm willing to be shouted at if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: NWrider on December 26, 2016, 07:02:19 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Pete.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: NWrider on December 27, 2016, 07:23:55 AM
OMG! What a dramatic difference in performance with the Beetle Norge 8v map.  I know I'm probably preaching to the choir, but what a difference.  Much smoother, no hesitation or surging between 3k -3.5k rpm and just a linear increase in power through the rev range.  Best bang for the buck you could ask for.    Thanks Beetle.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on December 27, 2016, 02:43:29 PM

(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/18/91/78/64/image10.png)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: craigclu on December 27, 2016, 04:28:03 PM
After these recent posts, I went to the site and see a Norge 8V (for stock exhaust) now listed.  I've got a GPR Albus on my Norge with both dB busters in place (retained the compensator, too).  The sound is just right for me as it is deep/mellow in tone, reasonably quiet, doesn't drone at cruising speeds but has a nice bark when driven aggressively.  I believe it has gotten a bit louder as it burns off some packing but I'm not actually sure of that.  My guess is that it isn't greatly different than stock for flow.  I'm a long way off from riding season in Wisconsin but have 5300 miles on the bike and will be due for some service early on in the season and would like to have this thought through a bit before that.

I'm currently running a lambda off, no-pop map from Mark.  This made the power more linear feeling and somewhat reduced the burbling (not much though)  Any thoughts for me?  Also, is there a better place to discuss these things than this thread?  I couldn't find any likely spots.


(http://thumb.ibb.co/mcB9mF/gpr1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mcB9mF)




Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: donp71 on January 28, 2017, 01:37:52 AM
Hi all,

My thanks again to Beetle for this fabulous tutorial and his assistance with my Breva 1200 Map.
She runs a lot smoother through the "middle" revs now.
Cheers

Don



Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on January 28, 2017, 10:49:58 PM
They can't tell.

Don't want to argue with the master, but having just done this, the computer logs the date the map was written to the ECU, so they knew I had re-flashed the ECU. Even Guzzi Diag shows you the date the map was loaded to the ECU.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 28, 2017, 11:17:15 PM
Yes, but it still identifies as the stock map. They can't tell what the map is unless they pull it and open it in a map editor. Even then, they'd have to know what they're looking at. Even if you load the factory map, it still logs the load date. So what? Just look blank and shrug.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on January 28, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Yes, but it still identifies as the stock map. They can't tell what the map is unless they pull it and open it in a map editor. Even then, they'd have to know what they're looking at. Even if you load the factory map, it still logs the load date. So what? Just look blank and shrug.

Yes, you are right. They noticed it right away and said that when they had to take a screen shot of my map and ecu setting and sent to Piaggio,  Piaggio had an issue with it because it showed that the map was reflashed with a non official program, etc. I asked them if it came to that to reflash it with their 'official' machine and call it good.... My only point was it is transparent to the dealer if you install a new map then put the stock map back in when you go in for service.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on January 28, 2017, 11:47:21 PM
If you have to deal with such weasly assclowns, (Why does it matter to them?) just buy another ECU, take the original off and use the 2nd handy. Then if something up towards happens just stick the original back in. Any mechanic worth his salt will be able to recognise the cause of a catastrophic engine failure and if they are trying to knock you back on warranty for something like a busted dashboard because your bike has a different map in it? Well, they're assclowns. Find a shop not run by them!

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 28, 2017, 11:59:44 PM
Ah! They're looking at the loader/tester. Even loading the stock map with GuzziDiag will show the wrong loader. Why did they take a screenshot and send it to Piaggio?

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on January 29, 2017, 12:16:15 AM
Ah! They're looking at the loader/tester. Even loading the stock map with GuzziDiag will show the wrong loader. Why did they take a screenshot and send it to Piaggio?

The unsolvable drop off at 6K problem.... Will bring it back next week and leave it there until it is solved (fingers crossed)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on January 29, 2017, 12:22:46 AM
Did they check the cam timing? I recall Pete had an 8V that was one tooth out on the cam chain (Stelvio?) and had a similar effect. No power after 6500 or somesuch.

You there Pete?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on January 29, 2017, 12:41:51 AM
Did they check the cam timing? I recall Pete had an 8V that was one tooth out on the cam chain (Stelvio?) and had a similar effect. No power after 6500 or somesuch.

You there Pete?

I think that will be on the agenda.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on January 29, 2017, 12:42:04 AM
Yup, one tooth off on one pot, ran into a brick wall at 6.5K. Check the cam timing, it's a fifteen minute job, bit more on a Norge.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Darmie on February 02, 2017, 04:53:51 PM
Finally finished reading. Just ordered my cables. Can you shoot me a picture of your OBD connector on your V7II? I wanted to ensure I use the correct connector.

On V7 II I have three connectors under the seat. One is for OBD, what are other two? One is larger and one smaller...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on February 02, 2017, 10:48:59 PM
The OBD connector is clipped to the back of the airbox on the V7-II.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: waxi on February 03, 2017, 01:09:37 AM
The OBD connector is clipped to the back of the airbox on the V7-II.

Pete

Exactly, just besides spare fuse.

On V7 II I have three connectors under the seat. One is for OBD, what are other two? One is larger and one smaller...

Yeah, I forgot already that I asked that. Still don't know what other two are for...
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: sib on February 03, 2017, 06:51:35 AM
The spare fuse is for the ABS/TC.  The other 2 connectors are 1) switched 12 power intended for a USB adapter; 2) connector for the Bluetooth data transmitter.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: waxi on February 03, 2017, 07:45:17 AM
The spare fuse is for the ABS/TC.  The other 2 connectors are 1) switched 12 power intended for a USB adapter; 2) connector for the Bluetooth data transmitter.

Thanks! :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on February 10, 2017, 01:59:37 AM
Did they check the cam timing? I recall Pete had an 8V that was one tooth out on the cam chain (Stelvio?) and had a similar effect. No power after 6500 or somesuch.

You there Pete?

Beetle,  Pete, you guys were spot on.

As inexplicable as it may sound, the right side cam was one tooth out.

The Tech's at MI said that they checked both sides and that it was clear that the right side had been taken apart and reassembled and the cam was one tooth out/off in timing.  NO IDEA why this was done, but I am suspecting the SELLING dealer prior to its first sale.  I got the bike at 1500 miles, and it had been serviced at the selling dealer in CA at 600 miles with NO warranty claims after. The Bike was sold new in OCT of 2015 and the original owner traded it in March of 16. I bought it July of 16. So it is a mystery WHY someone would have done this, but it is solved PTL. There was some silicone on the right side housing as well indicating the work. NO damage to valve or piston, which is amazing as I don't baby my bikes.

The rest of the bike checks out good, all is in spec and running well Cant wait to get it back, and see if I like the 8V motor more than the 4V 1100 in the GRiSO. Of course I have to ride it and see if it is really fixed.

THANKS for all the help and advice. Time to load the Beetle Map and have some fun before I put it in storage for 9 months and take a wee little all expense paid trip courtesy of my Uncle Sam.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 10, 2017, 02:19:48 AM
Damn strange.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on February 10, 2017, 03:46:18 AM
Whether the 1200-8V is a collision motor both ways I'm not sure but it definitely isn't one way. I find this odd especially as the cam timing and lift is very aggressive but mine is not to reason why......

Look, just stick it down to a 'Learning Experience' and hopefully in future others won't be screwed over by the same problem.

Now! Ride the piss out of it as soon as you get back, and look after yerself!

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Bulldog9 on February 10, 2017, 10:58:29 AM
Whether the 1200-8V is a collision motor both ways I'm not sure but it definitely isn't one way. I find this odd especially as the cam timing and lift is very aggressive but mine is not to reason why......

Look, just stick it down to a 'Learning Experience' and hopefully in future others won't be screwed over by the same problem.

Now! Ride the piss out of it as soon as you get back, and look after yerself!

Pete

Indeed that is the plan...........
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Crustye on February 10, 2017, 07:55:58 PM
Totally bummed, i've tried for 2 days to run guzzidiag on my 14 Stelvio NTX. nothing no com port or anything else. tonight I just donloaded tuner pro also & try it in morning 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 10, 2017, 08:06:44 PM
What's your operating system?
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Darmie on February 11, 2017, 12:05:45 AM
Thank you, thank you thank you. Thank you to all for the hard work making this available and working. Following the first pages of the thread and installing the drivers that were listed made this plug and play. I thought it would be best to use an external battery to keep power on the ECU since I felt it may take some time with the downloading and uploading. I had an extra volt meter available as well. So now I have my BIN file downloaded and backed up on the cloud, what is the next step? I don't have any aftermarket pipes but plan on some in the very near future. Then I'm sure it's best to purchase a known working map http://griso.org/ So, while I'm waiting on some exhaust pipes to arrive what can I safely do? I was thinking one could disable both lambda's, upload the map. Run diag. Check for TPS, reset auto learn. Then adjust CO trim as needed when temp is at 60c. Am I headed in the right direction? 2016 VII Stone.




(http://thumb.ibb.co/nquZ5a/20170210_225330.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nquZ5a)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/b9hMka/20170210_225515.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b9hMka)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/cg7nQa/20170210_225526.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cg7nQa)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/djcnQa/20170210_225540.jpg) (http://ibb.co/djcnQa)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kpm3yv/20170210_221641.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kpm3yv)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hWe1ka/20170210_225316.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hWe1ka)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 11, 2017, 01:20:55 AM
No need to use an external battery. Flashing a map takes about 5 minutes. Afterwards you need to 'learn' the throttle. We don't reset the TPS on a V7II. You should reset the autolearning. We also can't adjust the CO trim on a V7II. For the lambda, you can either disconnect the sensor connectors or turn lambda off in the map. If you choose to disconnect the sensors, remove them from the headers, or they will clog.

I'm looking for a volunteer to test a new V7II map for the stock exhaust. You interested? PM me.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Darmie on February 11, 2017, 04:35:34 PM
Sure. I'll send you a PM here soon. Wasn't sure about the battery. That's good news. Not being able to adjust CO trim on a V7II will that be an issue with turning off lambda's on the bin file? Also, I was aware that you would only want to relearn throttle if it's not in the 1.0 to 1.2 range or would you do this after each flash on the V7II?

No need to use an external battery. Flashing a map takes about 5 minutes. Afterwards you need to 'learn' the throttle. We don't reset the TPS on a V7II. You should reset the autolearning. We also can't adjust the CO trim on a V7II. For the lambda, you can either disconnect the sensor connectors or turn lambda off in the map. If you choose to disconnect the sensors, remove them from the headers, or they will clog.

I'm looking for a volunteer to test a new V7II map for the stock exhaust. You interested? PM me.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 11, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
Not being able to adjust CO trim on a V7II will that be an issue with turning off lambda's on the bin file?


Not really. If it's mapped properly, no adjustment is required.


Quote
Also, I was aware that you would only want to relearn throttle if it's not in the 1.0 to 1.2 range or would you do this after each flash on the V7II?


Correct, you only need to relearn throttle is it reads out of spec.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zinfan on February 22, 2017, 03:20:39 PM
Hey beetle quick question for ya.  I was riding my 2013 V7 (using beetle map no lamda map and guzzitech exhaust system) down in Mexico for a week and yesterday while riding back home from Tucson I got the check engine light.  Pulled off the road and as I slowed down the light went off but the bike was idling at 2.5k-3k.  Shut the bike off and checked a few things but didn't notice any issues.  Tried to restart and the bike would not fire.  Strong battery, good turn over but just wouldn't catch.  Opened up tank to make sure I didn't have a pressure issue and there was no indication that the tank wasn't venting properly.  Anyways after about 30 minutes or so the bike reluctantly fired up and I got going again.  One mile later the light came back on but was running strong.  I was in the desert west of Phoenix so decided to ride it onwards (I was on I-10 so not in danger of getting stranded).  Light went out then back on a few times during the time I ran this tank of gas out and when I filled up again the light was out but the bike took extra long to fire up, not quite as bad as previous but still no the usual one push and away we go.  By the time I ran that tank of gas out the light was off and the bike running and idling as normal but still hard to start.  Did manage to get it home under it's own power (700 mile day) and it fired right up this morning like nobodies business.

Best I could come up with is that the ECU learning got a bit borked when I moved from Mexican gas to US gas.  I filled up in Agua Preita, Mx before crossing the border (hey needed to use up those peso's) and rode to Tucson.  The next day I filled up with US gas and the light came on about 80 miles later.  I'm wondering if this could have been the cause?  The bike ran well on the Mx gas and even when I got the check engine light it was running well at 75-80 mph so I don't think it was bad gas.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 22, 2017, 05:30:33 PM
Learning is off when lambda is off. Have you checked for DTC (error codes) with GuzziDiag? Check for oil in the airbox. Might be causing grief for the MAP sensor and/or stepper.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zinfan on February 23, 2017, 02:43:40 PM
No oil in air box.

No new faults

Faults stored were

P0115 to high

P0135 no signal

P0611 invalid signal


Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 23, 2017, 03:15:27 PM
115 is engine temp too high.

135 is lambda sensor heater

611 is an injector fault.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zinfan on February 23, 2017, 03:37:39 PM
115 is engine temp too high.

135 is lambda sensor heater

611 is an injector fault.

Hmm no date/time stamp on those errors so not sure when they might have occurred.  I was running pretty fast for the V7 loaded down with me and luggage at 80 mph but air temps were in the mid 50's and when I checked I had plenty of oil.  Lambda's unplugged.  Not sure what an injector fault would like on the bike so no ideas on if that may have been the reason for the hard starting.

Thanks beetle
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 23, 2017, 04:00:24 PM
I'm vexed as well.

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Zinfan on February 23, 2017, 04:04:37 PM
Once I get the bike cleaned up and I recover from all the recent riding in cool temps I'll take it for a run and see how it goes.  It did start right up the morning after I got home. 
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Dean Rose on February 23, 2017, 08:33:07 PM
Is there a map for a stock 2002 EV?

Thanks,

Dean
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on February 24, 2017, 01:42:28 PM
Is there a map for a stock 2002 EV?


Are you asking if I've made a map for a 2V Cali? Yes, but only with numbers I pulled out of my arse.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: nick949 on February 27, 2017, 04:20:49 PM
I've just waded through almost all 42 pages and admit I may have missed it. 

Has anyone come up with a map for 2007 Breva 1100 (stock, canisterectomied)?

I've tried Molly's 1200 map, which seems to cure the pinking, but leaves me with a high idle (2000) and little engine braking - although oddly, if the bike is on the stand, it will idle at 1000+. Or is there a quick and easy twiddle through Guzzidiag that I've missed.

Thanks

Nick
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: Tom H on February 27, 2017, 04:43:34 PM
Is there a map for a stock 2002 EV?

Thanks,

Dean

I don't know for sure that it's 100% compatible. I do have 2 what should be stock maps for the '04 EV Touring if that would help.
Tom
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: old head on February 27, 2017, 04:48:39 PM
I have been running a 1200 map I got about 8 months ago.  Solved my pinging issue.  Mileage is a little less but not much.

only glitch is a tendency to die when I pull in the clutch at a higher RPM, always restarts.  It only happens on rare occasions. 

I would like a a dedicated map for the breva 1100, but doubtful if it will happen considering the few years they made them.  This map is much better than the OEM map and I am good with it.

Old Head
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: MorenoB on March 06, 2017, 09:55:45 AM
Hi everybody! A small question for the most experienced users (maybe Beetle or Paul can help me): I found the code P0611 stored in my ECU, and checking the MIUGg3 manual I found that:

"Data buffer full and triggered by special events:
The data buffer stores the engine operating parameters in the event of UNFORESEEN engine cut-out.
The contents of the buffer must be downloaded for further analysis.
An error can only be cancelled after the buffer has been downloaded".

Is there any way to download the buffer using Guzzidiag? I'm a bit surprised because I never got an UNFORESEEN engine cut-out...)
Many thanks :-)
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: beetle on March 06, 2017, 02:26:56 PM
It's a bullshit error. Could be injector or MAP sensor error. It's a spurious CAN error and is useless for troubleshooting purposes. Unless your bike fails to proceed or you get stuck with a service light, ignore it.
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on March 06, 2017, 02:47:44 PM
What machine? I know that this occurs occasionally on Cali 14's and there is a process for clearing the cache using PADS but I can't offhand remember it. I'd have to connect to a bike.

Pete
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: gelos on March 06, 2017, 03:57:39 PM
Hi,
to clear error P0611 is regulary operation on Piaggio scooters with MIUG3, usual rides all fine. On Guzzi I've never seen it. I can check tomorrow this option with GuzziDiag, or see yourself under View>Actors
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: MorenoB on March 07, 2017, 02:13:24 AM
Dear, beetle, pete roper and gelos,

many thanks for all the instant answers :-)

I've got a V7 MY2014 and it goes perfectly, so I'll ignore it  :thumb:
(anyway, next time I'll connect I'll also check under View>Actors :-)

Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: pete roper on March 07, 2017, 03:54:54 AM
 :thumb:
Title: Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
Post by: alanp on March 17, 2017, 08:37:22 PM
I have a new V7II.  The warm up period is annoying, and the bike also stumbles/sputters a bit on steady throttle.  So I would like to try the Beetle map.  I have read enough of these 43 pages to feel that:

This is WAY over my head.  It will takes me days, and I will almost certainly fail or screw something up.

Does changing the map affect the warranty?  Can I ask the dealer to do this for me?  It is either that or I need someone to point me to a simpler, more condensed set of