Author Topic: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners  (Read 554064 times)

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #300 on: December 05, 2014, 03:47:58 PM »
I can use GuzziDiag just fine, not that I've done anything with it.

It's using the reader bit that's a real problem because I want to save my original before doing anything else.
I've only managed to get it to save my original bin file once, then it hasn't actually saved it because it's certainly not where I saved it to, even tho it took the obligatory 15 minutes to download it.

But every other time it comes up with 'Initialization Failed'. Turn ignition off for 10 seconds - then nothing.
It's obviously setup OK otherwise Guzzidiag wouldn't respond and couldn't have (apparently) saved my bin file., and I'm pretty good with the whole Windows thing.

So, what's the problem people?>?

Thanks

Larry
2002 Stone 1100 - Gone
2005 Breva 1100 - Gone
2012 Stelvio 1200 8V ABS - Gone
2013 Sport 1200 8V ABS - Current

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #301 on: December 05, 2014, 03:56:13 PM »
Are you selecting the right com. Port before starting 'Reader'? I too couldn't find where my maps were being sent to. Turned out it was somewhere else entirely, can't remember where offhand! I'll have to look when I'm at the workshop.

Pete

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #302 on: December 05, 2014, 05:02:06 PM »
I can use GuzziDiag just fine, not that I've done anything with it.

It's using the reader bit that's a real problem because I want to save my original before doing anything else.
I've only managed to get it to save my original bin file once, then it hasn't actually saved it because it's certainly not where I saved it to, even tho it took the obligatory 15 minutes to download it.

But every other time it comes up with 'Initialization Failed'. Turn ignition off for 10 seconds - then nothing.
It's obviously setup OK otherwise Guzzidiag wouldn't respond and couldn't have (apparently) saved my bin file., and I'm pretty good with the whole Windows thing.

So, what's the problem people?>?

Thanks

Larry

I'm missing some information:

What bike? All you have in signature?
Does  guzzidiag work on same bike as where reader doesn't work?
You can't have guzzidiag and reader connected at same tine.
ABS bike?, didn't plug it in abs diagnostic plug, you won't be the first.
Please connect guzzidiag first, then disconnect it and use reader.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #303 on: December 05, 2014, 07:14:24 PM »
Are you selecting the right com. Port before starting 'Reader'? I too couldn't find where my maps were being sent to. Turned out it was somewhere else entirely, can't remember where offhand! I'll have to look when I'm at the workshop.

Pete

Thanks Pete.
Yes. Com port is correct. Like I said I'm pretty good at that sort of thing.
Concerning where it's being saved to: I've actually chosen the directory and for name.
I've managed to get it downloading again and can see the file in the directory but with zero bytes. It's 99% done so let's see what happens.

OK. Done. The switch off ignition prompt has come up but still no bytes for the file.
Let's see what happens when I turn the ignition off. Holding breathe.
Turned ignition off. Pressed OK and the file disappeared before my eyes 😠😬 Gone. It's no more. Like a dead parrot.

What now?

Larry
2002 Stone 1100 - Gone
2005 Breva 1100 - Gone
2012 Stelvio 1200 8V ABS - Gone
2013 Sport 1200 8V ABS - Current

Wildguzzi.com

Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #303 on: December 05, 2014, 07:14:24 PM »

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #304 on: December 05, 2014, 07:24:58 PM »
Paul.
It's a 2012 Stelvio 8V 1200 ABS

Yes, GuzziDiag appears to work fine. Read the measurements anyway. Twist throttle it responds OK.
Pretty sure it's connected to the right plug. Has a notch in it. Just to the left of the air box look from the front.
No, don't have both programs running.
Have reinstalled com port drivers.
If you read my reply to Pete you'll see I just got it to download, but at the end the file disappeared with no bytes recorded.

Mostly it won't connect using reader (v22) but twice it has. Done the download but file doesn't save.

Thanks.

Larry
2002 Stone 1100 - Gone
2005 Breva 1100 - Gone
2012 Stelvio 1200 8V ABS - Gone
2013 Sport 1200 8V ABS - Current

Offline rboe

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #305 on: December 05, 2014, 09:17:52 PM »
This happened to me once, downloaded the wrong reader. Double check that.
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Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #306 on: December 06, 2014, 12:54:08 AM »
OK folks. We can all rest easy.
Managed to get it to save the old bin file - finally. Turned off firewall and virus scanner, altho who knows if that made the difference because it still took 1/2 a dozen attempts to even get it connected.
Then coxed it into uploading a new one. Took a few efforts to get it to behave with a couple of 'Sorry, something's gone wrong' messages.
But it's all good now.
Reset the TPS.
Seems to be a lot easier off the mark, no jerky/surgy stuff.

I'm a happy Stelvio rider.

Thanks Pete and Paul.
See you Thursday arvo Pete.

Larry
2002 Stone 1100 - Gone
2005 Breva 1100 - Gone
2012 Stelvio 1200 8V ABS - Gone
2013 Sport 1200 8V ABS - Current

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #307 on: December 06, 2014, 03:41:38 AM »
OK folks. We can all rest easy.
Managed to get it to save the old bin file - finally. Turned off firewall and virus scanner, altho who knows if that made the difference because it still took 1/2 a dozen attempts to even get it connected.
Then coxed it into uploading a new one. Took a few efforts to get it to behave with a couple of 'Sorry, something's gone wrong' messages.
But it's all good now.
Reset the TPS.
Seems to be a lot easier off the mark, no jerky/surgy stuff.

I'm a happy Stelvio rider.

Thanks Pete and Paul.
See you Thursday arvo Pete.

Larry

Really Larry, bugger all to do with me. All Mark's mapping work and Paul and his Mate, (Who I can't work out what his name really is?!) who do the whole Guzzidiag shit who need the Golden Fairy treatment. I'm just the monkey at the end of the line.....

Pete

Offline Camn

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #308 on: December 08, 2014, 10:31:51 AM »
Quote
Paul and his Mate, (Who I can't work out what his name really is?!) who do the whole Guzzidiag shit who need the Golden Fairy treatment

Pauldaytona (Netherlands) is the father of the idea (09.02.2011)
"Since 20 years exists Guzzis with fuel injection and still there are people who use carburetors beacause  -then you know what's wrong- . What is missing is a device for the repair shop of your own, which you can use simply to read what is going on".

Beard (Gemany) grabbed the idea and started coding (12.02.2011)
"Cause I don't have a Guzzi with fuel injection, this has not interested me yet but for my cars I have always pottered something".

These were the famous first words, which can still be read here http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?topic=3624.0. During the first developement stages Paul checked things with Axone and verified that all data read was right. Later also other enthusiasts have given their input to the developing team. Today the latest version is V0.45 . And not only Guzzistas, but also other bikers with Marelli ecus have joined the GuzziDiag user team with a smile on their face (Ducati, Aprilia RSV4, GasGas, Morini...).
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 12:28:03 PM by Camn »
V11

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #309 on: December 08, 2014, 02:43:30 PM »
his Mate, (Who I can't work out what his name really is?!)


Bernd is his name.

Offline jbntx

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #310 on: December 22, 2014, 09:35:00 PM »
This stuff is fascinating.  ;-T

After a couple of sets of cables and FTDI driver issues, I have GuzziDiag working, and I have also downloaded my map. I've scrutinized it closely in TunerPro, and after much stroking of the chin, and looking at many graphs, I have concluded I have no idea what I'm looking at. So, until I do, I think it would be wise if I relied on the experience of others. So, I would love to get a good map for my 2000 V11 Sport. It is all stock except for Staintune cans. I have the annoying stumble up at around 2700 rpm, which you causes the a bobble in acceleration just as I am starting to roll on the gas when turning at an intersection. This is a little disconcerting, and if there is a fuel map fix for that, I'd love to get hold of it.

I am also starting a tank off  inspection, and will be replacing fuel and air filters, wires (one looks like the PO's cat was chewing on the boot), and general inspection of everything else.

Many thanks to all those who have been sharing their experiences and knowledge with the rest of us on this.

jb
2000 Moto Guzzi V11 Sport
1994 BMW K75S
1993 BMW K75

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #311 on: December 23, 2014, 02:55:57 AM »
you can try the titanium map
Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline jbntx

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #312 on: December 23, 2014, 09:27:24 AM »
you can try the titanium map
From whom can I get that, Paul?

On a related note, everyone who is using TunerPro should become best friends with the compare feature. I was playing with it last night, and it will do a lot to prevent those times when you really don't know what you changed anymore. If anyone feels it would be worthwhile, I can throw some screenshots and a quick writeup together to show how to set things up to compare two bins.

jb
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1994 BMW K75S
1993 BMW K75

czakky82

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #313 on: December 23, 2014, 10:31:00 AM »
I too would also be interested in the Titanium map. I've had some trials and tribulations w/ some parameters in Guzzidiag and have basically gone back to the original map. But am learning along the way ;-T

beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #314 on: December 23, 2014, 01:32:05 PM »
Anyone who wants the Titanium map, PM me your email address.

I did a basic TunerPro 'Howto' on the Griso Ghetto CLICKY.

I can post it here on WG if peeps want.


Offline Waterbottle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #315 on: December 23, 2014, 02:24:05 PM »
Thanks for that Beetle, I've sent an email re Tas trip
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Offline jbntx

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #316 on: December 24, 2014, 09:41:18 AM »
I did a basic TunerPro 'Howto' on the Griso Ghetto CLICKY.

I can post it here on WG if peeps want.
Please do!
2000 Moto Guzzi V11 Sport
1994 BMW K75S
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beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #317 on: December 25, 2014, 02:40:39 AM »

Offline jbntx

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #318 on: December 25, 2014, 09:47:28 PM »
Here
Here 'tis. CLICKY

It's long.

That is good stuff, Beetle. Thanks!


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Impulsive_Duc

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #319 on: December 29, 2014, 06:43:52 AM »
I have heard from Beard that a new version of his software may soon be released. There were a few timing problems related to logging he has fixed. Also, one major change. ;) But I will a wait patiently for him to release it when it is ready.

Regarding your AFR comments, I always make it a point to say the PC5 series does not use the same TPS/RPM breakpoints the ECU uses. For this reason, the AFR calculation results it displays are "off" due to linear interpolation. I think it is possible to adjust the breakpoints via the configuration utility, but you need to know your ECU breakpoints from viewing the BIN in TunerPro.

CAUTION
DON'T accidentally connect the Pos red and Neg Black cables arse about face or the Smoke Will come out of the OBD2 cable chips.
For my next trick......... A dedicated 2 pin keyed plug so old Ten Thumbs here can't do this again
I actually suggest semi-permanently attaching the croc clips to a C-TEK 56-564 Comfort Indicator Pigtail (link) (~$10 USD) using BET and using your battery tender port for power when you need it. Not only does it prevent accidental smoke-release, it indicates your current battery health so you know to avoid tuning when flat.

However, there is a design flaw in almost all OBD-to-FIAT adapters that most people are unaware of. Technically the croc clips go to the wrong pin. I am currently investigating if there is a fix. Even LonElec's cables have this issue, perhaps moreso since they use the ECU for power ground. It will cause alternator noise to be fed straight into the ECU.

Also open up the thing with the led, look what is written on the chips, if you have a 232rl in it. sometimes you don't get an 232rl but a cheaper less capable ftdi chip.
Or the adapter cable is wrong made, we ghad that before. there are connection pictures earlier in this thread I think
I personally use a WinChipHead CH341 with Pin4+5 soldered and have no issues. However, I understand not everyone solders and need something that "just works", and I support LonElec for offering an excellent product. Also, some may want to use this cable for TuneECU.

After the FTDI fiasco ( #FTDIgate ) (link), I started recommending the FT232BL chipset (lacking programmable EEPROM) unless there is a reason you need the ChipID feature. You can tell by a "small square" chip as opposed to a "long rectangular" chip. If TuneECU supported WCH341 I would drop FTDI completely.

We can already connect our 5AM ecu's to a smart phone via the ScanM5X app. and pretty good it is too.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scantwin.scanmM5.AllinOne&hl=en
I actually have been working with Christian to add features to his app.  :)

He ported the code to support Innovate Motorsport's serial protocol to Android, and I am walking through making a cheap bluetooth dongle to connect it. I've attached a video (link) -- you can now datalog single- or dual- wideband AFR at around 4-5Hz wirelessly! The key point is it costs less than $200 in parts to set up. It is the absolute cheapest and most accurate datalogging solution currently. Even a PCV relies on sampling the analog signal from the TPS. This ScanM5X feature is all digital through the ECU. It can even "autotune" (in passes, not immediately) based on target AFRs by using the free Logworks3 app.

The development thread behind the idea is elsewhere, but hope to write a full tutorial on par with Beetle's eventually.

Also, Christian is now playing around with an Arduino.  ;-T
Many cool things are to come!

One final note, I have many, many, many Guzzi firmwares from dumping every bike I come across. Some have been hosted on 92GTA's open-source firmware site ( http://irok.org/ftp ), but it is far from complete. I haven't had the time to sort through and upload the Guzzi firmwares, especially because I am unfamiliar with the models. I encourage you to consider uploading well-commented professionally dynoed and stock/original maps so others may benefit from them! Every bike is different, and a full datalog is best, but it would help other riders without access to a dyno very much. I hope to upload the Guzzi maps I do have (~30 at last count) once I can name them in an appropriate manner.

Also, please consider revising/adding to the open-source XDF repository. ( http://motoxdf.wikia.com ) It is set up so anyone can add or correct XDFs with minimal effort if you see a problem. I fully admit I am terrible with Wiki-code, and would appreciate your help.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 06:54:51 AM by Impulsive_Duc »

Offline Xlratr

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GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #320 on: December 29, 2014, 04:23:29 PM »
Hi Impulsive Duc

I believe some people here have been working with this app, but for some reason I could never get it to work 100% for me. I could log most of the ECU data, but never the AFR (I have a 2 lambda model). I gave up on trying to make it work when I switched to a wideband sensor.

But it seems from your video that you are combining data from the ECU together with wideband AFR data. Could you elaborate on that setup?

Specifically:

1) are you simulating a narrow band signal into the ECU via an Innovate controller or similar, so that all data comes through the one Bluetooth dongle? Or are you somehow using two separate signal sources? (A solution using innovate controllers for two wideband sensors is unfortunately costly and bulky)
2) the version of the app shown seems to be a 1.10b. I have tried the 1.07 and see now that there is an update to 1.09. But neither of these show the AFR via Bluetooth option in the settings menu that you show. Will this version be released soon? (This setting is intriguing as it implies a separate signal source for AFR, but I don't see how that can be possible via Bluetooth if the Android device is already connected to the ECU via Bluetooth)

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but I'd really like to see how this was all connected and set up.

John

PS: the link to the site with various maps opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, but I wonder how you can somehow document what the content of each map is? Some will have a lot of modifications, and may be based on other maps that are in turn also modified. The small text files might not be enough to make that all clear. Also, the setup of each motorcycle is very relevant. Do you have any ideas on sorting according to e.g. exhaust type?

Thanks again for the post. It's very interesting for me.



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Impulsive_Duc

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #321 on: December 30, 2014, 04:47:29 AM »
I don't want to detract from the topic of GuzziDiag too much, but I will happy to discuss it briefly. :)
Please see the links below for the "short and sweet":

Also, I have attached the debug version of ScanM5X here for you to test. We are up to "1.10d". :)
I may know the reason for your issues. Is your Bluetooth dongle the correct version? Chinese make many fake-version clones.
Read the ScanM5X reviews in Google Play, I describe how to test for clones using ELM327 terminal app. You need "functional" version 1.4+.
Please let Christian know of any bugs! :) I will be writing a guide how to set up wideband input for it shortly.
(Link here -- may be removed without warning)

Short answer: Innovate sensors have a (2x) analog and (1x) RS232 serial output. We first investigated that the narrowband pin(s) on 5AM ECUs are actually a "0-5v" inputs! I connected an Innovate LC-2 anaog output directly and read through the ECU. However, reading "lambda" pins from the ECU has a big time penalty. (~150ms per pin). When I was unhappy with that, and the grounding issues affecting analog reading, I suggested (pestered  ;D) Christian to add serial support and supplied the decoding code. We use "two" bluetooth connections: one BT<->ELM327 for ECU, one BT<->RS232 dongle for Innovate data. No time penalty, and can have up to 32 channels of any sensor type! :D

Unfortunately, Innovate has been less than supportive in regards to supplying Christian test equipment. I have been subsidizing it and providing data in that regard. (I also provided Beard my code, should he decide to add Innovate support to GuzziDiag).

The LC-1 is indeed bulky, but the LC-2 is quite small. Due to the universal nature of the Innovate serial protocol, you may actually use a "Dual Channel" LM-2 handheld unit as well!



PS: Back to GuzziDiag :D I promise to say on-topic now, unless more information is desired and the discussion is OK.

You can see how we currently sort firmware for GuzziDiag -- I created a PERL script to parse BIN firmware and make a custom text descriptor as viewed here:
http://www.irok.org/ftp/Ducati%20Tuning/ECU%20BIN%20Files/Ducati/SportClassic/2229B29DAP5%20_2007_SportClassic_1000SE_Stock.bin.txt
It has various fields -- I tried to include ones from every software type. Most important is the "Checksum 16bit". For some reason, my MPPS cable reads firmware with a large chunk "00 00 00 00", but GuziDiag reads with "FF FF FF FF"? It is very odd. So while the MD5 sums are thrown out of whack, the 16bit CRC adder function remains unaffected by this discrepancy. I suspect using 16bit CRC may be the best way to detect "altered" firmware. And as 92GTA says, it falls upon trust for the rest.

Then we use a .txt file paired with the BIN to illustrate differences in exhaust type, user comments, etc. Some .bin.txt are very well made (the ones I try to make :) ) but some submitted by users are very brief, perhaps two words at most. It falls to me to sort through them all and verify them.... very tedious work.

Could you suggest a Guzzi model/made that I should try looking at? From what you state, you have a 1200 with Dual Lambda?
Beard's guidance, was very helpful when researching how to wire 2 wideband lambda into the ECU directly. :)

Edit: I created 2 new XDF pages (using GuzziDiag template) and uploaded 2 test firmware. It seems your NTX is only "One Lambda"? At least the XDF indicates so.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 05:39:22 AM by Impulsive_Duc »

Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #322 on: December 30, 2014, 02:50:27 PM »
If the 5AM ECU handles 0-5v from the sensors, that would suggest that a kind of "plug and play" wideband sensor kit is conceivable, where the rider could dial in the AFR required. A world of possibilities!:-). Is the time delay you mentioned really so problematic (compared to the standard narrow band signal)?

I'm using the dual channel LM2 you mentioned, so I don't think I'll be going back to the Scan App. (TPS/RPM/AFR data is enough for what I want). But if I do want to try it out, and if I understand you correctly, I could use the "analog out" data from the LM2 via BT, PLUS the data from a separate BT dongle connected to the ECU! Interesting. I didn't know it was possible to connect two BT devices simultaneously.

I'll think about it and maybe order a couple of new BT devices.
The biggest problem for me as a die hard Apple user will be to get the beta version of the App to work! :-).

Thanks for the insights!
John


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beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #323 on: December 30, 2014, 03:17:44 PM »
I have been experimenting with using a wideband sensor to dial in the wanted AFR to the 5AM. There's a couple of issues.

1. The 5AM expects a narrowband Rich/Stoic/Lean signal only. You must program an analog output to emulate a narrowband signal, but you can still choose your target AFR as your 'Stoic' point.

2. You can't use an LC-2. The LC-2 has a single ended output. A differential output is required or you get a SERVICE error. :D.  Fortunately this is a good thing, because it completely eliminates the offset voltage noise problem.

Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #324 on: December 30, 2014, 03:32:40 PM »

1. The 5AM expects a narrowband Rich/Stoic/Lean signal only. You must program an analog output to emulate a narrowband signal, but you can still choose your target AFR as your 'Stoic' point.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of solution I meant. The ECU "thinks" it's at stoic, but you could dial in any AFR you want to match that stoic voltage. It would be much more accurate than a narrow band, and the standard ECU could handle it. Just need someone to make the kit! :-).

The disadvantage is that you're stuck with one AFR for all closed loop throttle / RPM positions, although I suppose it would be possible to have a remote switch (max power or cruise AFR at the press of a button).

John




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beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #325 on: December 30, 2014, 04:08:50 PM »
John, I've not found a wideband controller with dual differential narrowband emulated outputs. In your case, you would need two single channel units operating in parallel. It would get pricey!

My kit is with a 2V 1200 Sport owner at this time, when I get it back I'll do a proof of concept.

Offline Xlratr

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GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #326 on: December 30, 2014, 04:28:27 PM »
Hi Beetle, yes that's right.  I did actually approach a manufacturer here in Europe a couple of months back worth a suggestion that they think about producing such a wideband kit. Unfortunately they were not interested at this time. I think technically it shouldn't be such a big challenge, but there needs to be a certain ROI for the manufacturer, and I expect the potential Guzzi market is not big enough. Maybe so if you count the Ducati potential. In any case, as you point out, a self made solution is for me not a realistic proposition.

I'll follow your progress with your 1200 Sport kit with interest though!

John


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beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #327 on: December 30, 2014, 04:38:31 PM »
I'll start a new thread when I do. It's really out of scope for this thread. :D

Impulsive_Duc

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #328 on: December 30, 2014, 06:58:50 PM »
I have moved my reply to a new thread so as to not clutter this one. :)

As a final note, I have uploaded the new version of ScanM5X. Please let us know of any bugs!  ;-T
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 07:16:37 PM by Impulsive_Duc »

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #329 on: January 07, 2015, 08:53:07 AM »
This would have some limitations for use as a real PC, mainly the 16GB would be an issue. But it might be really handy as a tool in the garage.
Load it up with GuzziDiag, all of your PDF manuals and schematics.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nextbook-8-Tablet-16GB-Windows-8.1-Bonus-16GB-Micro-SD-Card/38334382
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

 

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