Author Topic: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners  (Read 554151 times)

Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #720 on: November 18, 2015, 10:37:38 PM »
\
I am going to try and put it in 6th, spin and find tdc somehow and let you know the clearances.

 will do this tomorrow as soon I can and report back. You have no idea how much I like this bike and what it meant to see it falling apart or not running as it should. Thank you.

Vasco DG

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #721 on: November 18, 2015, 11:08:44 PM »
Can't really see the stop screw, or rather if it's been buggered with. Can you get an Allen key into it? If so it may of been screwed around with. The one pointing to the left is the bell crank screw. This does need to be adjusted from time to time.

There are numerous write ups, probably at least one by me, on this board about how to go about tuning a W5AM equipped Guzzi, do a search.

What is important to realise is that playing with the map will achieve NOTHING unless the engine's tune is correct. The valve clearances MUST be spot on, the throttle bodies balanced correctly and the TPS and trims zeroed otherwise you aren't going to get anywhere.

Valves should be set at 4 & 6 thou cold.

Pete

Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #722 on: November 18, 2015, 11:43:00 PM »
Can't really see the stop screw, or rather if it's been buggered with. Can you get an Allen key into it? If so it may of been screwed around with. The one pointing to the left is the bell crank screw. This does need to be adjusted from time to time.

There are numerous write ups, probably at least one by me, on this board about how to go about tuning a W5AM equipped Guzzi, do a search.

What is important to realise is that playing with the map will achieve NOTHING unless the engine's tune is correct. The valve clearances MUST be spot on, the throttle bodies balanced correctly and the TPS and trims zeroed otherwise you aren't going to get anywhere.

Valves should be set at 4 & 6 thou cold.

Pete

Thank you Pete. I will focus on checking and setting valves clearances to 0.1 and 0.2. I think it is. And Tb sync. Valves seem pretty straight forward like on my old GS, TB sync I need to find which exact screw I need to touch. Not much else I know about TPS and trims. so any extra pointers would be great. I do have a feeling this bike has a problem as the PO told me they already replaced left coil, but seems they have not found the issue causing it to run so poor and jumpy at idle. When you see and hear it running it is as if someone cuts power to some parts of it and then it surges back to life, other times it dies and stops.

Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #723 on: November 19, 2015, 01:32:44 PM »
The valve clearances are off a bit as I just checked them.

in mm

Right cylinder:
Intake Upper= 0.1
Intake Lower= 0.07 (very tight)
Exhaust Upper= 0.15
Exhaust Lower= 0.15

Left Cylinder:
Intake Upper= 0.11 (loose)
Intake Lower= 0.09 (tight)
Exhaust Upper= 0.11(very tight)
Exhaust Lower= 0.11 (very tight)





I just used a long screwdriver to find TDC and bumped the rear wheel in 6th, as silly this may seem I was not certain the rotation direction of the crank to use a wrench..

I will go ahead and adjust per leafman's documented article here to 0.15 mm and 0.20 mm if you agree.

http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/2012-stelvio-ntx-valve-adjustment-procedure.9176/


Also, is there any recommended value for the Up/Down rocker arm play? They click when moved I'd say less than 0.5 mm and I know on BMW the play is acceptable but can  also loosen some screws and tap the gap tighter with a plastic mallet to make engine run more quiet.


Once adjusted, if the idle cutting and stalling randomly remains, I am afraid I won't be able to do a throttle body sync.
The map is stock and found how to set back CO trim as well to 0 (It seems my problem was Guzzidiag won't adjust CO when sock map is installed since lambda's are ON) so nothing will be altered on EFI side it will be all stock. Any additional thoughts appreciated. I am pretty sure the valve adjustment won't make such huge impact to correct the issue but I would love to be wrong.

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #723 on: November 19, 2015, 01:32:44 PM »

Vasco DG

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #724 on: November 19, 2015, 01:58:46 PM »
Roller engine clearances are 0.1 and 0.15. The 8V is very sensitive to valve clearance changes.

Does this dying at idle persist when the engine is warm? Or is it only apparent when cold?

Pete

Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #725 on: November 19, 2015, 02:06:03 PM »
Roller engine clearances are 0.1 and 0.15. The 8V is very sensitive to valve clearance changes.

Does this dying at idle persist when the engine is warm? Or is it only apparent when cold?

Pete

It does it both when cold and warm, same exact way. In fact twice by now it happened worse after a few good hours long highway speed run when just pulling out from the gas station after fill-up. The stalling and jumpy idle phenomenon was livable with until recently, in that I was able to feather the throttle when stopped and catch it in case it wanted to stall.

Vasco DG

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #726 on: November 19, 2015, 02:18:08 PM »
I had a Stelvio recently that was cutting out at low speed and it turned out to be one of the fuses under the small triangular panel on the right below the rider's seat. As the power was cutting in and out it triggered a phase sensor error but replacing that didn't cure it. Removing, cleaning and adequately seating the fuses did. Just a suggestion.

Pete

Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #727 on: November 19, 2015, 02:25:56 PM »
I had a Stelvio recently that was cutting out at low speed and it turned out to be one of the fuses under the small triangular panel on the right below the rider's seat. As the power was cutting in and out it triggered a phase sensor error but replacing that didn't cure it. Removing, cleaning and adequately seating the fuses did. Just a suggestion.

Pete

I will do - thank you! Where are all the fuse boxes? Is it just below and next to battery or are there more? Also where are the main connectors that I should check the ground wires for ECU and other important ones? Do I need to remove the gas tank?

Many thanks!

Vasco DG

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #728 on: November 19, 2015, 02:33:35 PM »
Some fuses lurk up by the steering head and, on some models, inside the fairing but the ones I had the trouble with are under that small, triangular, plastic panel on the right size of the bike under the seat.

Pete

Offline chaoselephant23

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #729 on: November 20, 2015, 11:37:37 AM »
*** VINDOWS 10 TIP ***
Was having lots of trouble uninstalling drivers for the FTDI chip cable in Vindows 10. I'd uninstall the latest 2.12.06 only to find that 2.10.00 got installed. I just wanted to try 2.08.14. But Vindows kept telling me that an updated version is already installed. A good google search landed me the answer. Here is what you do if you keep getting told by Vindows that an updated version of the driver is already installed:( Or you uninstall drivers only to find Windows installed some drivers for you:(

Go to the Control Panel (right click the Start menu button -> Control Panel). If icons are organized by Category, navigate to System and Security > System > Advanced system settings. If icons are organized by icon, navigate to System -> Advanced system settings. Click on Hardware tab. Click on Device Installation Settings. Say 'No' to 'Do you want to automatically download manufacturer's apps and custom icons available for your devices?'. If using Windows 10 < version 1511, there might be another option that I cannot document as it's on the laptop at home. This will allow you to go to the Device Manager and uninstall the drivesrs for the USB Serial Port and USB Serial Converter items. You can then associate the device with the driver of your choosing without having to reinstall the OS.
*** END TIP ***

Now time for some guidance with getting things working. I have tried unsuccessfully to backup my map with versions 2.08.14 and 2.12.06 of the FTDI chip drivers that were manually installed via the Device Manager. Reader sees the cable on COM3. Click Read. Switch ignition on. Click OK. Reader shows connection 19s, 18s,... Once the countdown is complete, the reader tells me to turn the ignition off. Progress bar never fills up. Turn the ignition off and the program exits. Check the BIN file. Is zero bytes. I know I haven't tried 2.10.00 yet, which I will be this evening. Does this behavior sound like a bad ODBD II cable? The cable is the Triumph for TuneECU cable off Amazon.
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Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #730 on: November 20, 2015, 11:47:59 AM »
I also have Amazon USB Cable for Triumph Motorcycle TuneECU Program but no windows 10. I did not have to install any driver, Windows 7 on my cheap Asus laptop picked up a default correct driver and shows on COM 5. Guzzidiag, writer and reader work perfect as such.

My non related question (back to my Stelvio idle woes which remains after an anally accurate valve adjustment) is - what values are relevant that can be logged in real time running mode to a CSV which would help pinpoint an engine idle problem, rpm surging and stalling? I basically want to see either an O2 voltage issue if that was the case, or what other parameters do experts suggest to monitor? The truth o the matter is without an accurate understanding of the symptom - troubleshooting means just parts replacement and visual inspection and wire connectors wiggling.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 11:49:55 AM by Dracula »

Vasco DG

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #731 on: November 20, 2015, 02:32:34 PM »
And sometimes that is what is needed to isolate the problem.

Really, from half a world away, there isn't much more I can offer in the way of help.

Pete

Offline chaoselephant23

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #732 on: November 23, 2015, 10:58:10 AM »
Finally got GuzziDiag working. Turned out to be user error. Misinterpreted the directions the reader gave. Reader said if you hear the fuel pump, restart the program. Since the fuel pump comes on with the kill switch disengaged and key to ignition, I took that to mean turn the key to ignition with the kill switch engaged. Since that will prevent the fuel pump from coming on. But that was not the case. I needed to have the kill switch disengaged before I turned the key to ignition. Found all of this out after creating an Ubuntu virtual machine which exhibited the same behavior as Windows did i.e. Adapter Test succeeds, but Reader or GuzziDiag cannot connect. Frustration forced my hand... and it worked :laugh: Going to try it out on Vindows tonight. The performance of the reader on the VM was un-acceptable. Too many damn bridges to traverse.
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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #733 on: November 23, 2015, 12:23:44 PM »
Finally got GuzziDiag working. Turned out to be user error. Misinterpreted the directions the reader gave. Reader said if you hear the fuel pump, restart the program. Since the fuel pump comes on with the kill switch disengaged and key to ignition, I took that to mean turn the key to ignition with the kill switch engaged. Since that will prevent the fuel pump from coming on. But that was not the case. I needed to have the kill switch disengaged before I turned the key to ignition. Found all of this out after creating an Ubuntu virtual machine which exhibited the same behavior as Windows did i.e. Adapter Test succeeds, but Reader or GuzziDiag cannot connect. Frustration forced my hand... and it worked :laugh: Going to try it out on Vindows tonight. The performance of the reader on the VM was un-acceptable. Too many damn bridges to traverse.

 well need to read is once, writing is much faster, 5 minutes
Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline chaoselephant23

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #734 on: November 23, 2015, 03:12:04 PM »
well need to read is once, writing is much faster, 5 minutes

I do apologize. I wasn't insinuating that the software is slow. Quite the opposite. My setup is the cause of poor read performance. I am running a VirtualBox VM of Ubuntu 14.04 that is allocated 768MB of RAM and 32MB of display RAM on Windows 10 host on a Dell Latitude e6400 with 2GB of RAM. Already I am in the red as Windows 10 normally takes 1GB of RAM. Doesn't leave much for the VM. Then to make matters worse, there is an additional bridge between the ECU and the software. ECU is connected to the FTDI chip cable. FTDI chip cable is connected to the USB Hub. USB Hub is then bridged to the VM via VirtualBox's USB Serial Converter driver, the extra bridge. Which is finally routed to the software via libftd2xx. On a machine of worth, I don't think the additional bridge would penalize me much. But since I have a 7 year old laptop, it really hurts :sad:
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Offline Dracula

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #735 on: November 23, 2015, 07:06:44 PM »
And sometimes that is what is needed to isolate the problem.

Really, from half a world away, there isn't much more I can offer in the way of help.

Pete

Hi Pete,
I really do appreciate your input as well as everyone else's. I was not expecting miracles, just some pointers of advice. Your advice got me started in the right direction - adjusting valves to be spot on, and bringing the map back to stock. I think I sorted it out, did allot of things. I changed both spark plugs, wires and caps, and one ignition coil that was throwing the code. Checked all fuse blocks and unplugged the ECU then plugged it back to ensure it has good contacts. Changed air filter. Changed fuel filter. The bike now seems fine. runs better than it ever did since I got it.. Again, thanks so much everyone.

Offline canuck1969

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #736 on: January 17, 2016, 09:28:16 AM »
Can anyone tell me if DucatiDiag is still available for download or do you just use the IAWDiag and choose the correct ECU.  I have a friend that is interested in it but I can seem to find the downloads other than some old references that it is not available.  The XDF are still on the Guzzidiag site for Ducati so assuming it is still living somewhere. 

Have not really followed the Ducatidiag story so apologies if it is well known information. 

Andrew_C

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #737 on: January 20, 2016, 02:37:25 AM »
OK - Klutz here so be gentle (and I've not read all 25 pages of this thread!)  Bike was running fine until I tried to jump start it when my battery died earlier in the autumn; I strongly suspect I've broken something.

Got the software - got the cable -got it connected to my Breva 750.

Got data too!  So far so good.  However, I can see that the TPS is way off.  Where I'm stuck is the reset.  I can go to the Actors page, but with the engine off, the Actors is greyed out, but accessible with it running.  Clicking gives me an error.

Any kind souls offer any advise?



« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 03:37:09 AM by Andrew_C »

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #738 on: January 20, 2016, 07:47:22 AM »

Got data too!  So far so good.  However, I can see that the TPS is way off.  Where I'm stuck is the reset.  I can go to the Actors page, but with the engine off, the Actors is greyed out, but accessible with it running.  Clicking gives me an error.



 when you fresh connect, with engine off, and then goto the actors page, is still all greyed out?
Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #739 on: January 20, 2016, 07:51:01 AM »
Can anyone tell me if DucatiDiag is still available for download or do you just use the IAWDiag and choose the correct ECU.  I have a friend that is interested in it but I can seem to find the downloads other than some old references that it is not available.  The XDF are still on the Guzzidiag site for Ducati so assuming it is still living somewhere. 

Have not really followed the Ducatidiag story so apologies if it is well known information.

what ecu does he have?
But iaw-diag should do it. and for 15m and 5am the normal reader writers. For 5.9m the writer is nearing completion, and the reader is there.
On the downwload page I posted a number of ducati xdf files, but the good guys at Ducati  make a different ecu layout for almost any bike. Sometimes using a bike that is near specs works. 

Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Andrew_C

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #740 on: January 20, 2016, 07:52:18 AM »
when you fresh connect, with engine off, and then goto the actors page, is still all greyed out?
I'll try to look tonight.  Might be to darned cold though...

Andrew_C

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #741 on: January 20, 2016, 01:24:24 PM »
Yep.  Greyed out.  Tried a download of the .bin file (Map I assume?), but it seems to be empty.  And it took seconds, not minutes!

I don't like the smell of this...

Edit:-

Had another go.  This time, I got the Actors - TPS reset, clicked and got Actors OK.  Throttle still says 7.9

HOLD THE PHONE!!

If I try the other throttle reading it says 3.1 - as it should.

Too dark and cold to try it out now; here's hoping for tomorrow morning!  Thanks all.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 02:00:07 PM by Andrew_C »

Offline Kiwi Dave

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #742 on: January 20, 2016, 01:55:39 PM »
I could be completely wrong here, but doesn't the TPS on a Breva 750 have slots to allow for manual adjustment?  I was once fooled by TechnoResearch documentation describing how to read and reset the TPS using the "Alfalin_0" channel.  This was for a California Vintage.

After much frustration I found the TPS had to be adjusted manually the old fashioned way, i.e. rotated to read 150 mV with throttle screw out and linkages removed, and then winding the throttle up to the prescribed amount (for the Vintage, this is 485 mV).

The Breva 750 uses the same Magneti Marelli IAW 15RC ECU.  I suggest you check for adjusting slots on the TPS.

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #743 on: January 20, 2016, 02:00:54 PM »
I could be completely wrong here, but doesn't the TPS on a Breva 750 have slots to allow for manual adjustment?  I was once fooled by TechnoResearch documentation describing how to read and reset the TPS using the "Alfalin_0" channel.  This was for a California Vintage.

After much frustration I found the TPS had to be adjusted manually the old fashioned way, i.e. rotated to read 150 mV with throttle screw out and linkages removed, and then winding the throttle up to the prescribed amount (for the Vintage, this is 485 mV).

The Breva 750 uses the same Magneti Marelli IAW 15RC ECU.  I suggest you check for adjusting slots on the TPS.

 Well yes breva 750 and cali vintage share same ecu. But breva has linear tps, and no adjustment slots, the cali has a logarithmic tps that should be manual adjusted.

And a great problem was it when you had gotten technoresearch to reset your cali tps. It's very hard to get it working again. So in Guzzidiag you can't reset tps on a cali vintage but you can on a breva 750.

Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #744 on: January 20, 2016, 03:44:54 PM »
Yep.  Greyed out.  Tried a download of the .bin file (Map I assume?), but it seems to be empty.  And it took seconds, not minutes!

I don't like the smell of this...

Edit:-

Had another go.  This time, I got the Actors - TPS reset, clicked and got Actors OK.  Throttle still says 7.9

HOLD THE PHONE!!

If I try the other throttle reading it says 3.1 - as it should.

Too dark and cold to try it out now; here's hoping for tomorrow morning!  Thanks all.

 But what is exactly wrong with the bike?

Look at my youtube movie for some injection values, there you can see when and how the lambda works/should work.

 
Paul

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Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Andrew_C

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #745 on: January 21, 2016, 02:28:40 AM »
But what is exactly wrong with the bike?
Nothing.  Now.

Worked a treat, bike running fine!  Still cold mind you...

Offline canuck1969

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #746 on: January 21, 2016, 04:54:47 PM »
what ecu does he have?
But iaw-diag should do it. and for 15m and 5am the normal reader writers. For 5.9m the writer is nearing completion, and the reader is there.
On the downwload page I posted a number of ducati xdf files, but the good guys at Ducati  make a different ecu layout for almost any bike. Sometimes using a bike that is near specs works.

Thank Paul, not sure which ECU but will find out and pass on your note.

Offline tris

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #747 on: February 05, 2016, 07:29:38 AM »
OK Chaps

I've just ploughed through all the threads on this message and realised that while I understand the principles of all this its very "involved" and I'm keen not to create a rod for my own back!!

I don't have (yet) any need/desire to change any of the mapping on my 2005 V1100 Breva, but I do want to be able to reset the TPS and view parameters as needed as part of normal servicing of the bike.

So, using GuzziDaig alone, can I cock things up so bad that its not recoverable back to stock?

Cheers

Tris

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Offline Tudorgates

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #748 on: February 05, 2016, 08:34:13 AM »
Let me start by saying that with Paul's guidance and using one of Beetles, maps my Stelvio is running absolutely fantastic. No vibes, better mileage and a much smoother power delivery. But now that the cold weather is upon us I have one little niggle.
1st start from cold, it fires instantly, then sometimes dies. If I catch it on the throttle, and manage to keep it running for 10 seconds, all is ok. Otherwise i go through this cycle of start/stall/start/stall until I do catch it(only 1st start and only on cold mornings)
If it were an old carb'd engine I would say it needed a bit more choke.
So . . .
As it runs so perfectly i don't want to mess with the main map, but I notice there is a warmup map when viewed in Tunerpro
Do those who know more than me (everyone!!) think that by upping the fueling within the warmup map will help me, and if so by how much? 1 point? 5 points? in every box?
Hope my question makes sense.
Cheers
Des

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #749 on: February 05, 2016, 09:14:36 AM »
Let me start by saying that with Paul's guidance and using one of Beetles, maps my Stelvio is running absolutely fantastic. No vibes, better mileage and a much smoother power delivery. But now that the cold weather is upon us I have one little niggle.
1st start from cold, it fires instantly, then sometimes dies. If I catch it on the throttle, and manage to keep it running for 10 seconds, all is ok. Otherwise i go through this cycle of start/stall/start/stall until I do catch it(only 1st start and only on cold mornings)
If it were an old carb'd engine I would say it needed a bit more choke.
So . . .
As it runs so perfectly i don't want to mess with the main map, but I notice there is a warmup map when viewed in Tunerpro
Do those who know more than me (everyone!!) think that by upping the fueling within the warmup map will help me, and if so by how much? 1 point? 5 points? in every box?

My 2009 still has the stock map, and does the exact same thing. But only around a temperature of 60F. When it is colder out, or hotter, it actually starts fine. It acts like it is just a touch lean at only that temp.
I was going to try to richen that warmup map, but never got around to it. It runs fine other then that one hiccup.
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