GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners

[beetle]

First thing I would do is put a stock filter back in, and reset the auto-learning parameters.

[pauldaytona]

and to switch lambda off, I made a youtube screencapture that shows it. Next to the writen guide that Beetle has made.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Scott, welcome to WG  and pay attention to the above two guys..

[Scottv8]

Hello Chuck,
thank you all for the prompt response.
Yes I have very quickly realised these are the chaps that are the gurus here

Stock filter you say?
Ok, will do, I expected a K&N would be good for it, did I waste my hard earned on that one?.
I have had the TB balanced by a dealer last week (although I have got the tools to do it myself now), the TPS is all good and I have reset the auto learning duberry.

So stock filter back in and lambda off, you reckon thats about as good as i need with a standard bike?

[beetle]

It should certainly get rid of the snatchiness 'bout town.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't even use the K&N to filter my tea. It's good for keeping the big rocks out. The stock filter uses the same material as the 140HP Tuono, so it's more than capable of supplying the air your Stelvio needs.

Worthwhile checking the play in your throttle cables too. Too much slack won't be helping.

[pete roper]

Hello Chuck,
thank you all for the prompt response.
Yes I have very quickly realised these are the chaps that are the gurus here

Stock filter you say?
Ok, will do, I expected a K&N would be good for it, did I waste my hard earned on that one?.
I have had the TB balanced by a dealer last week (although I have got the tools to do it myself now), the TPS is all good and I have reset the auto learning duberry.

So stock filter back in and lambda off, you reckon thats about as good as i need with a standard bike?

Not wishing to appear smart but why did you assume that a K&N would be 'Good for it'? There are a lot of false assumptions made on principles that are no longer relevant with *Modern* motor designs. Its one of the huge bug-bears of trying to convince people about getting their machines to run well, there is this repository of *Knowledge* and a lot of it is no longer relevant or just plain wrong.

Especially with the Guzzi 8V the peculiarities of its head design and cam timing mean that all of the preconceived ideas about 'Freeing up the flow' and other such amorphous nonsense go straight out the window. In fact 'Freeing it up' is actually in many ways counter productive as it simply encourages poor VE and waste of fuel. It doesn't seem to matter a jot how many times we state this though or how many stellar reviews Mark receives for his maps built using these principles there are people who just *KNOW* that flinging in a rock strainer and opening up the exhaust will turn a Guzzi 8V into a 'Bussa Beater!

If your bike is a 2008 my first suggestion would be to ensure its rollerised ASAP if it hasn't been already as any mods you make will be worth squat if it shits its top end big time. After that? Read up and study. Couple that with deciding what you are actually hoping to achieve and you'll be able to make your Stelvio run like a champ without wasting money on a whole bunch of silly, oft damaging, crap that won't make your bike perform one iota better than it will stock but will drink fuel and wear itself out quicker.

Pete

[Scottv8]

All received and understood chaps, thank you
Im sure all these things have been covered millions of times before and i guess it gets frustrating for you when newbies come along asking the same old questions and coming up with the same wrong ideas over and over again..........sorr y bout that
So, yeah, with your recommendations in mind, i'm going back on the paper filter and maybe see what Lambda off is like.......

I guess the rubber 'snorkel' removal was a bad idea as well?

I took these ideas from the Yam XT660 that I had last, it was 'forum Guru' suggestion to me that K&N main filter, K&N side cover filter and snorkel removal was the way to go for smoother torquey power, and it did seem to work on that engine. As you rightly point out the V twin is a different beast.

I have always put K&N replacement panel filters in my cars, not for any particular power increase reason as im not really into fast cars, just seemed like a universally renown, reuseable, save the world type of good idea.

With regards to my bikes, not looking for balls out power and speed from the Stelvio, that's what I got the Hayabusa for Just a smooth, reliable torquey, everyday rider.

I have adjusted the throttle cables and am about to whip off the rocker covers to see whats inside.
It had cams etc changed under warranty in 2012 by a previous owner. and I would expect they were replaced with like for like.
I have just spent £900 on the crank shaft oil leak, so rollers may have to wait a while

[beetle]

I will permit the snorkel removal. 

[Scottv8]

ok, cool, thank you
as long as it dont have any detrimental effect, no point otherwise 

[beetle]

I recommend the removal of the snorkel on the Griso. Dyno tests have shown it improves midrange torque. No reason to believe it won't do the same for the Stelvio.

[pauldaytona]

Take a look at the stelvio airbox from 2009 or newer, it was said to deliver more midrange in contrast with the 2008 stelvio(= griso) airbox. Mounting is the same battery comes in different, but that shouldn't be a problem. The intake tubes come in quite different.

Worth a try when you have one. (like in Pete's salvage stelvio)

[pete roper]

Yeah, if you want to experiment let me know, I have the airbox out of the crashed shitter.

Pete

[oldbike54]

I recommend the removal of the snorkel on the Griso. Dyno tests have shown it improves midrange torque. No reason to believe it won't do the same for the Stelvio.

 UH OH , slippery slope there Mark 

 Dusty

[beetle]

The usual set of trolls haven't called me out on it yet.

[pete roper]

9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1............

[pauldaytona]

Yeah, if you want to experiment let me know, I have the airbox out of the crashed shitter.

Pete

Before ripping the old out, look at the tank shape there. could be that it is such a close fit that the newer doesn't fit.
In the stelvio I just could swap it.

[Esmae Watson]

I've been following this helpful thread for the last few months after getting my first fuel injected bike that suffers a stumble around 2-3000 rpm. I'd adjusted the valves, balanced TB's etc to no avail so decided to get the cables and have a look at what's going on.

Mine is a 99 California special with the 15m ecu. It has staintunes and a K&N filter (which i'll probably replace with a stock one after reading the comments above)

I came to the conclusion that my TPS was failing so ordered one from cycleworks ( PF3C replica ) and after removing the old one I found it to be a bit tight and notchy compared to the new one that moves fluidly, so I think I made the right call by replacing that.

After all the TPS reset ( 150mv ), TB balance etc. I took it for a spin around the block and the bike was running extremely lean, stumbling while cruising, crackling and popping on deceleration. So I modified the CO trim from +5 to +10 and took it for another spin still carrying on just as bad it seemed. So to cut a long story short I have settled on +80 CO trim for now and it seems to have solved the lean condition. I could probably back it off a bit as I jumped from +45 to +80 after getting sick of mucking about with it.

My question is:
1. Because I have modified the CO trim by such a large amount ( +80 ), should I replace the map or will everything be OK for the next 200,000 kilometers on that map (I know absolutely nothing about Fuel injection mapping)
2. Does anyone have a modified map to suit my conditions (Staintune mufflers, K&N filter, Australian model)

Thanks in advance

[pauldaytona]

I think the tps is set wrong. The 150 mv is measured in the state that the butterfly is completely closed. That is when the choke and all stops are out, so no air can pass.

[Esmae Watson]

Thanks for the reply paul. I can go back and double check it but I did the balance exactly according to brad the bike boys page on http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/throttle-position-sensor-setting_21.html and I had the choke completely backed off with some slack. also I backed off the butterfly stop so there was a gap (with the arm removed that controls the other butterfly) and I rotated the butterfly a few times to make sure it came back to that position.

[pauldaytona]

The butterfly was closing the tube? After setting the 150 mv, you should never touch the tps.

[Esmae Watson]

I assume it was as the stop screw was fully wound out with a gap and nothing else was restricting it. Once I had the TPS at 150 I locked it off and didn't move it again, I checked it after I'd locked it off and made sure it stayed there.

[beetle]

Did you use GuzziDiag to measure the voltage, or a digital meter? I would use a meter.

[Esmae Watson]

Hi beetle, I used a  multimeter with a pair of small pop rivets poking into the back of the connector to get the reading. .

[beetle]

Pop rivets? Did you zero the meter across the rivets first?

[Esmae Watson]

No I didn't, I'll get some thick copper strands and see if I get the same reading. I used the rivets because that shown in a picture on one of the other guzzi forums.

[beetle]

Good idea. I'm not sold on the efficacy of using pop rivets.

[Kiwi Dave]

Good idea. I'm not sold on the efficacy of using pop rivets.

I use sewing needles.  How efficacious are these?

[Tom H]

Either 1 paperclip cut in half or two paperclips.

Just a tip, when you slide the item of your choice down next to the wire, have the connector plug loose. Then you can test your connection to the pins in the plug and make sure it's touching the wire.

Tom

[Esmae Watson]

all stops are out

Well, this is embarrassing. I've only just had a chance this afternoon to have a look at the bike again. I figured I had done something wrong somewhere along the line and there it was. I didn't realise the left hand throttle stop screw was domed, I used the torch on my phone to look at it originally and could see (what I thought was a gap) it wasn't, I looked harder with a proper torch this afternoon and found it was still slightly touching after I backed it out to 150mv. I double checked the current MV with some thick copper wire and it was still at 150MV, backed the screw off probably another half turn or so and there it was 113mv, so I back it out a bit more, gave the butterfly a few flicks and twists to make sure it was seating properly and then set it all again. Dropped the CO trim to +5 and I'll take it for a spin tomorrow to see how it all panned out.

So I want to say thank you to Paul, Beetle, KiwiDave and Tom for your input and apologies for wasting your time. Though I hope someone else may come across this post if they're having the same issue and it solves their problem for them.

[pauldaytona]

Esmae,

Glad you had a second look at it. The learning curve is at a different time for everyone. The purpose of Guzzidiag was educating people to understand EFI on a Guzzi.

 Let us know how it runs now.