Author Topic: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners  (Read 554163 times)

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #900 on: April 18, 2016, 06:43:26 PM »
Have you nipped up the intake boots? They can come loose.

Yes. Did that a couple of days ago.
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #901 on: April 18, 2016, 07:36:06 PM »
Larry? I'm wondering if the cam timing is one tooth out on one pot. Being an 'A' kit bike I didn't have to check it when it was rollerised as the sprocket just gets cable tied to the head when you whip the cambox off. If for some reason it was incorrect before it would still be incorrect now. Had anyone ever been inside it before me? The 8V is not a collision motor, at least not one way, but it will run very strangely if its got one cam a tooth out. While I doubt this is the problem it is probably worth checking.

Pete

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #902 on: April 18, 2016, 07:59:07 PM »
Haha. Thanks Pete. My thinking was it would collect a valve if it was out so crossed my fingers. Obvious that doesn't work 😁

As far as I know no one had been in there previously. It had only done 16000klms when I bought it.

So how do I check that?
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pete roper

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #903 on: April 18, 2016, 10:46:54 PM »
Set piston up at TDC compression same as if you were checking the valves, remove the breather plate from the back of the head and take off the flinger plate. the locating pin should be at 6 O'clock in relation to the bore as it were. If it is right just loctite the retaining bolt and reinstall the plate.

Should look like this.



As you can see if is out by a tooth it will be obvious. As I said I don't think this is the issue but..............

pete

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #903 on: April 18, 2016, 10:46:54 PM »

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #904 on: April 18, 2016, 11:53:13 PM »
Thanks heaps Pete.
That doesn't look too difficult.

I got some Quick Start stuff. When the bike was hot,  120c, it seemed to make a difference spraying it AT the spring hanging under the RH Throttle Body,  but going back now from ambient to 65c it doesn't seem to make any difference.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 12:22:21 AM by Larry »
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Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #905 on: April 19, 2016, 04:24:40 AM »
So here's mine


Looks good
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pete roper

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #906 on: April 19, 2016, 05:13:36 AM »
If that's the right pot I'd say yes.

Pete

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #907 on: April 19, 2016, 10:18:20 PM »
If that's the right pot I'd say yes.

Pete

Correct
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Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #908 on: April 20, 2016, 02:36:10 AM »
Pete, is there anything that could be stopping the RH TB from closing properly? I just can't get my head around why they're balanced at high speed but the LH side needs so much extra air at idle.

Larry, if you have it balanced at 4,000 with the bleed screws closed, is it also in balance at say 2,000?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 02:38:38 AM by Xlratr »
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Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #909 on: April 20, 2016, 03:14:35 AM »
Pete, is there anything that could be stopping the RH TB from closing properly? I just can't get my head around why they're balanced at high speed but the LH side needs so much extra air at idle.

Larry, if you have it balanced at 4,000 with the bleed screws closed, is it also in balance at say 2,000?

I'll look into that John because I'm tending to that as well, but my thought is that the actual throttle adjustment might be the problem. Do I have too much tension on either or both cables?
So I've slackened both of them off big time and it does make a difference to the idle balance.
But before I go down that path, how do I adjust the cables properly. What's the procedure because with two cables it's obviously a bit more than just tensioning the traditional one cable against a return spring.

Thoughts.?
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Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #910 on: April 20, 2016, 03:52:32 AM »
I'll look into that John because I'm tending to that as well, but my thought is that the actual throttle adjustment might be the problem. Do I have too much tension on either or both cables?
So I've slackened both of them off big time and it does make a difference to the idle balance.
But before I go down that path, how do I adjust the cables properly. What's the procedure because with two cables it's obviously a bit more than just tensioning the traditional one cable against a return spring.

Thoughts.?

I don't have my bike to hand, but as far as I remember there is just push/pull to the left side and the rest is via linkage. I would just take *almost* all the slack out of the "pull" cable and leave a little bit more slack in the "pull/return" cable. I'll have a look when I get home, but I'm sure somebody will have corrected that by then if it is wrong.
While you're at it, have a look at the mechanism to see if something is stopping the RH side from closing properly or if it stops closing before the LH side does.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 04:22:06 AM by Xlratr »
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beetle

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #911 on: April 20, 2016, 04:04:30 AM »
Loosen the cables until you have noticeable free-play in the throttle grip. Then, set your idle balance. Gradually tighten each cable until free-play just begins to take up. At some point, the revs will start to rise as tension is applied to the linkage. This is where you loosen the cables a smidge, so that idle revs go back to normal.


Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #912 on: April 20, 2016, 04:13:31 AM »
How can I tell if they're 'closed' properly?
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Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #913 on: April 20, 2016, 04:18:24 AM »
It's a pity I can't look at my bike right now, but try looking at the linkage from underneath as you slowly open and close the throttle with the engine off. Can you detect if one side still has slight movement after the other side stops?

BTW, *if* the RH side was not closed fully when you did your TPS reset, then I think this might account for some of the problems you're having.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 04:18:56 AM by Xlratr »
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Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #914 on: April 20, 2016, 06:15:35 AM »
I'll give it a go.
Thanks

Larry
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #915 on: April 20, 2016, 06:32:35 AM »
I reckon some clown has buggered with your TB's. I sent my spare set to Belfast Dave but I've got another, hopefully unmollested, pair on the way from the US. If you have time to drop up we can try them.

Pete

Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #916 on: April 20, 2016, 06:42:16 AM »
I reckon some clown has buggered with your TB's. I sent my spare set to Belfast Dave but I've got another, hopefully unmollested, pair on the way from the US. If you have time to drop up we can try them.

Pete

Pete, I can't check mine till this evening but is there any kind of stopper screw that the right side TB sits on when closed?
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #917 on: April 20, 2016, 07:14:36 AM »
There is a right hand 'sacred screw'. It's not easy to get at, but I have been vexed by a 1200 Sport that had had the secret sacred screw adjusted.

Offline Xlratr

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #918 on: April 20, 2016, 01:10:34 PM »
There is a right hand 'sacred screw'. It's not easy to get at, but I have been vexed by a 1200 Sport that had had the secret sacred screw adjusted.

I had a look at the "secret sacred screw"  It would explain a lot if that had been messed with, but it's REALLY hard to access. Seems unlikely that someone just wanting to "adjust the idle" would choose to play with that screw, but you never know.
Alternately, I wonder if someone adjusted the linkage rod. That has paint on it too and could be checked (as could the secret sacred screw).
I dunno, I just think it "must" be something mechanical like that.
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #919 on: April 20, 2016, 01:44:44 PM »
I got some Quick Start stuff. When the bike was hot,  120c, it seemed to make a difference spraying it AT the spring hanging under the RH Throttle Body,  but going back now from ambient to 65c it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Makes you wonder if it is a leaking shaft.
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #920 on: April 20, 2016, 03:53:07 PM »
I had a look at the "secret sacred screw"  It would explain a lot if that had been messed with, but it's REALLY hard to access. Seems unlikely that someone just wanting to "adjust the idle" would choose to play with that screw, but you never know.
Alternately, I wonder if someone adjusted the linkage rod. That has paint on it too and could be checked (as could the secret sacred screw).
I dunno, I just think it "must" be something mechanical like that.

You'd be surprised what 'Harry Hometune' and/or a shaved ape can achieve. Their dedication to screwing stuff up is astounding. The bike Mark mentioned is in my shop at the moment and with the onset of cooler weather it's playing up again. I think a new set of TB's will be the only proper solution. Not the owners fault, this one was buggered up by the last dealer in Canberra!

Pete

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #921 on: April 20, 2016, 05:05:45 PM »
Well if Larry's RH sacred screw has been fiddled with, he's buggered. If it's a case of over-tight throttle cables, he might get this sorted.

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #922 on: April 20, 2016, 06:11:40 PM »
Well if Larry's RH sacred screw has been fiddled with, he's buggered. If it's a case of over-tight throttle cables, he might get this sorted.

:) Thanks Mark, I'm mightily encouraged  lol.
All the paint is still in place on the linkage arm.

I'm going to load the original map this afternoon, tho not sure if that'll be any good seeing as the right Lambda isn't working  ???. Anyway, I'll see if I can get it settled at least. I've got a Lambda on the way over from TLM so hopefully should be here next week.

Thanks for you offer Pete, but my time is short. NZ for my Mum's 90th next week, then bike's supposed to be loaded around the 15th May for Europe. At a pinch I could possibly be on your doorstep am of Monday 9th May. I'll see how I go.
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Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #923 on: April 21, 2016, 03:02:50 AM »
So I loaded the factory map, and what do you know, there's that wayward Lambda2



Here it is balanced at 3400rpm



And here balance at idle, BUT with two turns out on the LH air bleed - and idle isn't to smooth.



These are all with slack Throttle cables.

I'll take it for a spin tomorrow and see if I can live with it.
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #924 on: April 21, 2016, 03:47:58 AM »
And did you try it with the last map I sent?

Offline Larry

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #925 on: April 21, 2016, 04:02:49 AM »
And did you try it with the last map I sent?

Yes I did Mark and thanks for that.  Loaded it immediately so lots of the previous was with that map.

Just to check I loaded it again (actually I had to to reduce the CO trim as I can't seem to change it using thefactory map) and the Lambda was still awol.
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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #926 on: April 21, 2016, 04:46:54 AM »
Don't be too concerned about the lambda's. If you're going to be running an open loop map, the lambda has no affect. That is why you can't adjust the CO trim with stock map. When lambda is active, CO trim is not, and vice versa.

Offline canuck1969

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #927 on: April 22, 2016, 11:27:50 AM »
Don't be too concerned about the lambda's. If you're going to be running an open loop map, the lambda has no affect. That is why you can't adjust the CO trim with stock map. When lambda is active, CO trim is not, and vice versa.

Don't think there is an relevance to this, but one thing I did notice going from a custom map to a stock map is it will hold the CO value in the stock map to what you had it on the custom.  Guzzidiag will display the CO value of the custom map, even though the stock map is loaded. If the ECU disregards that then all good, if it does not, then maybe it can cause some confusion.

When I have ventured back to the stock map, I always set my CO back to zero first, and then load the stock map back on.  That is the only way for Guzzidiag to display 0 on the stock map.

Again, may be irrelevant, but just an observation.

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #928 on: April 22, 2016, 02:05:12 PM »
Don't think there is an relevance to this, but one thing I did notice going from a custom map to a stock map is it will hold the CO value in the stock map to what you had it on the custom.  Guzzidiag will display the CO value of the custom map, even though the stock map is loaded. If the ECU disregards that then all good, if it does not, then maybe it can cause some confusion.

When I have ventured back to the stock map, I always set my CO back to zero first, and then load the stock map back on.  That is the only way for Guzzidiag to display 0 on the stock map.

Again, may be irrelevant, but just an observation.

 Well to be precise, there is no CO value in a map, it is stored in the eeprom memory in the ecu. So if you worry, also download the eeprom, and save that with stock map. When you ever want to return 100% stock, upload map and eprom back.  The eeprom hold all more changing things like errors, tps reset value, selflearning, and CO. 
Paul

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Offline canuck1969

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Re: GuzziDiag HowTo - A tutorial for beginners
« Reply #929 on: April 22, 2016, 02:27:09 PM »
Well to be precise, there is no CO value in a map, it is stored in the eeprom memory in the ecu. So if you worry, also download the eeprom, and save that with stock map. When you ever want to return 100% stock, upload map and eprom back.  The eeprom hold all more changing things like errors, tps reset value, selflearning, and CO.

Appreciate the explanation.

So does the CO value on the eeprom affect the loaded stock map on the bike.

 

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