1972 Ducati 750 Sport

[canuck750]

One nice Ducati 750 Sport, … as nice as it is I could have a V7 Sport and a Le Mans MKI for less,.... just sayin.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1972-ducati-750s-early-production/6886318148.html

[leafman60]

Awesome machines.  Nothing comparable.

I had a 900SS.

[canuck750]

Awesome machines.  Nothing comparable.

I had a 900SS.

What makes them so much better than a 1st gen LeMans?
I know its subjective and I do love the looks of the Ducati, I just don't get the huge price differential over the iconic Tonti Gussi's.
The build quality and component specification of the V7 Sport and arguably the 76 ~ 78 Le Mans is as good or better and in terms of numbers produced the Ducati is rarer but again the Guzzi's were very low production. All great bikes, I think the Guzzi's are undervalued.

[Furbo]

What makes them so much better than a 1st gen LeMans?

Paul Smart and the 1972 Imola Race.  Followed up nicely by Mike Hailwood at IOM in 1978 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkala1Z0lmQ).  Desmodromic valves. The fact that Guzzi gave up serious racing in the early 60's and the bikes they had their successes with were certainly not available to the public. The Guzzi engine is a utility engine who's design prioritizes reliability over power. Their business model was police & military contracts with public sales as an add on. You CAN make it go fast (ish), but it's not going to compete consistently with a design that prioritizes power over reliability (Ducati). 

[SmithSwede]

When I was a teenager back in that era, those bevel drive Ducatis were my ultimate dream bikes.  Could not afford them then, and looks like I can’t afford them now!

Oh well.  I recently got a 1996 900 SuperSport, and am enjoying the heck out of it.

[Tusayan]

There were only a few early wide frame/seat Sports made before they improved the styling by narrowing the rear subframe and solo seat. A buyer for this bike would have to be very careful that it’s not a converted GT.  A great many GTs have been converted to early 750 Sport lookalikes with replica body work, and it is much easier to fake an early, rare wide frame Sport than a later, more common, better looking narrow frame bike.

A 750SS won Daytona with the editor of the most prominent motorcycle magazine of the era in the saddle, tuned by the magazines technical editor.  That and the associated write ups in Cycle did a lot for the bike’s long term notoriety, plus other historical factors like 1-2-3 at Monza in an early outing and Hailwood winning at IoM.  In combination with that, the reason bevel Ducati sport bikes are worth so much is that they have uncommonly, otherwise non-existent in the era, predictable, stable handling and an ultra smooth engine.  Plus they are beautiful and sound good.

[guzzista]

Ducati 750 Sports  Z striped tank models have always been rare from the gitgo. Cycle Magazine borrowed the first test model in late 1971 from the Canadian importer as Berliner was still in flux from ( their) refused  shipment of singles and was only bringing in the Spanish Mototrans singles  ( 250/350). The twins filtered in early 1973. By then the black paint on engine covers as well as the leading axle forks  were gone as well as the Z stripe . In 2008  a 1974 model 750 Sport belonging to my employer sold to a East Coast buyer for 30k.  So the 50k kinda makes sense. Definitely not Guzzi content . I had a fair amount of seat time on that 750 and although I enjoyed the smooth engine and looks, my ( long gone) 1980 900 SS is still my all time favorite  Bevel Ducati.

[Tusayan]

My ( long gone) 1980 900 SS is still my all time favorite  Bevel Ducati.

After owning other bevels, my 1980 900SS remains my favorite.  I've had it a long time, occasionally think of selling it, but will probably keep it until some day years from now I can't start it any more.

[cliffrod]

There were only a few early wide frame/seat Sports made before they improved the styling by narrowing the rear subframe and solo seat. A buyer for this bike would have to be very careful that it’s not a converted GT.  A great many GTs have been converted to early 750 Sport lookalikes with replica body work, and it is much easier to fake an early, rare wide frame Sport than a later, more common, better looking narrow frame bike.

A 750SS won Daytona with the editor of the most prominent motorcycle magazine of the era in the saddle, tuned by the magazines technical editor.  That and the associated write ups in Cycle did a lot for the bike’s long term notoriety, plus other historical factors like 1-2-3 at Monza in an early outing and Hailwood winning at IoM.  In combination with that, the reason bevel Ducati sport bikes are worth so much is that they have uncommonly, otherwise non-existent in the era, predictable, stable handling and an ultra smooth engine.  Plus they are beautiful and sound good.

Its also not uncommon to find a Roundcase 750 GT to have a 750S designation on the frame tag, making a pieced together Sport replica look more legitimate.  Without good records and provenance, it can be an expensive mistake for an inexperienced buyer.

Years ago, I passed on a local deal like described above.  $500 for an "unoriginal" 750 Roundcase.  Seller said "it's not correct- it's actually a GT but I've got all the original Sport bodywork from my race bike on it..." 

[redrider90]

Its also not uncommon to find a Roundcase 750 GT to have a 750S designation on the frame tag, making a pieced together Sport replica look more legitimate.  Without good records and provenance, it can be an expensive mistake for an inexperienced buyer.

Years ago, I passed on a local deal like described above.  $500 for an "unoriginal" 750 Roundcase.  Seller said "it's not correct- it's actually a GT but I've got all the original Sport bodywork from my race bike on it..."

Seller claims "MATCHING NUMBER REFERRENCE TO IAN FALLOON PUBLICATION"

[leafman60]

What makes them so much better than a 1st gen LeMans?
I know its subjective and I do love the looks of the Ducati, I just don't get the huge price differential over the iconic Tonti Gussi's.
The build quality and component specification of the V7 Sport and arguably the 76 ~ 78 Le Mans is as good or better and in terms of numbers produced the Ducati is rarer but again the Guzzi's were very low production. All great bikes, I think the Guzzi's are undervalued.

The early Ducati twins would haul butt and run circles around any Guzzi. 

Not knocking Guzzi.  They were rock-solid, long legged bikes with a broad power band. They just never were competitive speed-performance-wise with Ducati. 

And, yes, I preferred  the later 900SS series but nothing looked better than those earlier round-case 750's.

.

[leafman60]

Those Desmo singles were also impressive.  The comparison with the Guzzi singles carries over too....

.

[MotoChuck250]

The early Ducati twins would haul butt and run circles around any Guzzi. 

Not knocking Guzzi.  They were rock-solid, long legged bikes with a broad power band. They just never were competitive speed-performance-wise with Ducati. 

And, yes, I preferred  the later 900SS series but nothing looked better than those earlier round-case 750's.

.

Not entirely.  Famous side by side test of the Ducati 900SS and Moto Guzzi type I 850 LeMans showed the LeMans was marginally faster around the Willow Springs race course.  The testers swore that the Ducati felt like it accelerated harder and so Ducati came out as a bit the preferred bike in the end.

[oldbike54]

Not entirely.  Famous side by side test of the Ducati 900SS and Moto Guzzi type I 850 LeMans showed the LeMans was marginally faster around the Willow Springs race course.  The testers swore that the Ducati felt like it accelerated harder and so Ducati came out as a bit the preferred bike in the end.

 Yep .

 Ducatis are like Ferraris , they command silly money based on cache .

 Dusty

[Tusayan]

Famous side by side test of the Ducati 900SS and Moto Guzzi type I 850 LeMans showed the LeMans was marginally faster around the Willow Springs race course.  The testers swore that the Ducati felt like it accelerated harder and so Ducati came out as a bit the preferred bike in the end.

I've ridden both my LeMans and my 900SS around Willow Springs big track, and a lot on the street. My LeMans has 100K miles and the SS has mid-20Ks mileage, both mostly with me in the saddle.  My SS is a lot better sport and race track bike, my Le Mans is a lot better bike for touring and for doing high mileage over many years.  I haven't done a lot of touring on the SS because it makes my stock seat Le Mans feel like a Gold Wing, and as a result my longest day the SS was only 600 miles of twisty roads. After that I had no feeling in a very important part of my male anatomy for a day or so afterward, so never did it again. The Le Mans has carried me on many long days, and I have many wonderful life long memories of touring on it.

On the other hand I passed Dave Roper on the SS at Willow, even if it was cheating because he was on a bike with half the displacement.  He passed me back soon enough, but it was fun following his line and learning.  I couldn't have kept up on my Le Mans - it lacks the same direct, stable feel and would need to lose both 50-100 lbs and the shaft drive torque reaction to measure up on the track.

I won't speak for anybody else or their experience on their bikes, only mine, set up by me and ridden by me for roughly 30 years each    Oddly enough, the race record in period matches my experience: Mike Baldwin, a very talented rider by all accounts did win a race or two on Rino Leoni's race prepped Le Mans but the Ducatis did a lot better.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I've mentioned about owning two Ducati 750GT's from the late 70's till late 80's..I did not own them both at the same time...The fist one had leading axle forks, the second one not...Once I sorted the electrics, as in rewiring the bike, they were easy starting and reliable..On the street they were about the same acceleration as a SOHC Honda 750..I ran the bikes flat out and about 110 MPH was top speed..Compared to other 70's bikes, they were very stable and the heavy steering that goes with it...I'm not a road racer but it was easy to pace aggressive street riders on other bikes..
  After selling the second Ducati I bought a Lemans1..The Guzzi was just as good but different...The jacking of the rear suspension on and off the throttle was noticeable but not a big deal. Better shocks may have helped ...Leamans was much faster than the 750GT but the higher tuned SS might be a different story..
   Are Bevel Drives worth today's prices? My 96 900 Monster does every better than a bevel drive  except for being a classic 70's Ducati...
 

[Tusayan]

I can't compare my bevel SS with a Monster, but I can compare it with my '97 belt drive 900SS.  The newer bike has more power and quicker steering and for many riders would be faster down the road, but it does not have that very unique feeling of hydraulic power and unflappable stability and in some areas it's built like a modern budget bike, with fragile construction.  The belt SS is still a very nice bike, easy to maintain and a fantastic bargain at the moment, if you can find a nice one.

I think it's similar to comparing a 1966 E-type Jag with a 2000 XK8, in that case there's about a factor of ten to fifteen between the market values.

[Rough Edge racing]

I can't compare my bevel SS with a Monster, but I can compare it with my '97 belt drive 900SS.  The newer bike has more power and quicker steering and for many riders would be faster down the road, but it does not have that very unique feeling of hydraulic power and unflappable stability and in some areas it's built like a modern budget bike, with fragile construction.  The belt SS is still a very nice bike, easy to maintain and a fantastic bargain at the moment, if you can find a nice one.

I think it's similar to comparing a 1966 E-type Jag with a 2000 XK8, in that case there's about a factor of ten to fifteen between the market values.

  Yes the hydraulic power, I believe Cook Neilson said it in a Bevel Drive road test...He also said " laughing in your helmet" on a road test of the last 900ss bevel drive.. He mentioned a 1979 Suzuki 1000 can pull away from the Ducati on a mountain road...But the Ducati is far less threatening at the limit...very satisfying...
   Modern Ducatis are a bargain and my 96 is always fun to ride..it makes all the right moves and sounds and as you say, easy to maintain despite stories to the contrary.And I like naked bikes...It's very unlikely I will ever ride another bevel drive ,never mind owning one just like I'll never have a Knucklehead , Vincent or Brough Superior. Visiting the past will be restricted to one of my vintage  Triumphs....