Author Topic: Japanese motorbike history  (Read 3413 times)

Offline vstevens

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Japanese motorbike history
« on: August 21, 2019, 07:56:02 AM »
Lately I've been reading up and YouTubing watching a lot of motorcycle history.  Suzuki was a textile manufacturer before the war, Yamaha a piano and instrument company.  Yamaha (and I'm sure the rest of the big 4 as well) followed the idea of 'Kendo" - a philosophy of sorts that tries to 'marry' beauty, form, and function.  I have to say I'm a bit inspired by their stories rising up from the ashes of the war (quite literally in some cases).  All of this has me taking a fresh look at the Japanese bikes of the past few decades.  I especially like the Yamaha Virago 535.  I knew a young lady who rode one back in the 80's.  I admired her too.  At the time, I had a Suzuki gs550 (UJM).  Both great bikes. 

Anyway, just thinking out loud.  Sometimes I get caught up in the 'echo chamber' of Guzzi and forget how many great motorcycle makers are out there - Japanese, European, Italian, British, American... and Chinese and Indian (don't want to leave anyone out).  It seems many of them come from humble beginnings, cheap transportation for the masses when it's needed most.  I know this isn't new.  Just wanted to share. 

Vince


oldbike54

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2019, 08:02:05 AM »
 Lots of intrigue surrounding the Japanese motorbike industry's rise to prominence also , it can make for some interesting reading .

 Probably my favorite origins story is how Mr Honda just kept at it until he succeeded .

 Dusty

Offline inditx

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2019, 08:04:02 AM »
good stuff, thanks for sharing
inditx

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Offline Roebling3

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2019, 08:17:55 AM »
Obtuse? Perhaps. Looking to start trouble? Just an opinion search, if you will.
I apologize, 4th with.
Anyone care to compare the Japanese vehicle industry to those in Germany?
DAR,  R3~

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2019, 08:17:55 AM »

Offline vstevens

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2019, 08:26:20 AM »
Obtuse? Perhaps. Looking to start trouble? Just an opinion search, if you will.
I apologize, 4th with.
Anyone care to compare the Japanese vehicle industry to those in Germany?
DAR,  R3~

... peace... no harm intended... just sharing my love of motorcycles   :grin:

Offline drdwb

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2019, 09:40:08 AM »
My first through 4th bikes were are the Yamaha  78-82 XS XJ series, very nice reliable affordable bikes. I would not hesitate to take any one of them on another cross country run right now. My interest in Guzzi came about after discussions with friends and rides on their European bikes. One of my long time friends explained that in his opinion that while the UJM were dependable and functional the high centers of gravity typical of the majority of UJMs of the era revealed the design flaws of the bikes. It was his opinion that cruiser style UJMs were designed from the top down to appeal to the market craving of the popular chopper look, The market of the time was selling the easy rider look for less than 1/2 the price of a Harley. The big difference was in the handling, Again his opinion, The European bikes of the time were designed from the road up emphasizing handling required on Europe’s winding narrow roads.

So in addition to our 3 Yamahas we now have 4 Guzzis and while the Yamahas sit with around 30,000-40,000 miles on them our mileage on each of the Guzzis is about close to double that on our Yamahas.
Perhaps I’m biased now but I tend to agree with my friends assessment, the Guzzis handling on two lane twisting country roads is vastly superior to our UJMs for a lot of reasons. However I must admit the crack the throttle rush one gets from the 79 XS 750 or the XS1100  always brings an ear to ear grin.
07 Norge, 05 Baby Breva, 04 Stone  Touring , 03 EV, 82 650 Maxim 79 XS750 Special 78XS1100 Teraplane side car

Offline fossil

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2019, 09:43:18 AM »
Well, even if it is humble transportation: the Honda Super Cub (the original one) is a thing of beauty. Both in terms of engineering and of the looks. Well, when I think about it, the same applies to the Vespa.....

The Yamaha Virago535 is frowned upon here in Germany. I do not understand why. Ok, it is not the style of bike I prefer, but it is well executed. A friend bought such a thing for cheap, cleaned and polished it, and he loves riding it. He really enjoys each minute on this humble bike. And I can understand him.
Greetings from Germany!
Thorsten

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2019, 09:47:33 AM »
If I ever got the right balance, handling and feel of a Japanese bike, I'd never put up with the aggravation of owning Italian ones.
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2019, 11:37:07 AM »
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline Two Checks

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 11:40:22 AM »
By definition the UJM did not imitate the chopper look.
The UJM was the Honda CB series, Suzuki GS, Yam XS and Kaw KZ, the "cruiser" style models excepted.
Kawasaki built ships and airplanes and other stuff.
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 12:10:38 PM »
After my wife saw the "Twist the Throttle" episode on Yamaha, where the YA1 was shown (Yamahas first motorcycle which was nicknamed the Red Dragonfly), she wanted to have a little dragon fly air brushed on the tank of her red FJ09.   :wink:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=twist+the+throttle+yamaha&view=detail&mid=0369C5A8E525FCA48B4E0369C5A8E525FCA48B4E&FORM=VIRE
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 10:33:03 AM by Darren Williams »
The best part of riding a motorcycle is to tilt the horizon and to lift the front coming out of a corner and to drift the back end powering thru loose dirt and to catch a little air topping a hill and... yeah it's all good!

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 12:33:40 PM »

I’ve seen that look before..!
Nice shot.

Offline tazio

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 06:29:06 PM »
"Blame" Harley for the rise of the Japanese Motorcycle Industry :boozing:
Look up Rikuo and Alfred Child's.
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Offline drdwb

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 08:00:28 AM »
07 Norge, 05 Baby Breva, 04 Stone  Touring , 03 EV, 82 650 Maxim 79 XS750 Special 78XS1100 Teraplane side car

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2019, 08:14:31 AM »
No but I do.



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Offline Yukonica

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2019, 08:35:37 AM »
For an interesting perspective read "Stealing Speed" by Matt Oxley.
One may write one's destiny but the unknown delivers it.

Offline Shorty

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2019, 09:07:25 AM »
If I ever got the right balance, handling and feel of a Japanese bike, I'd never put up with the aggravation of owning Italian ones.

Word.   :wink:
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Offline Rick in WNY

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2019, 09:30:46 AM »
I've owned a couple Japanese bikes, from Suzuki, Kawasaki, and currently have a Honda Goldwing.

Japanese bikes are great in terms of ease of living with them... but they have made them so reliable, so intuitive, and so smooth (Goldwing reference) that they have lost the "feel" of being on a motorcycle. They "feel" like a kitchen appliance. Simple, reliable, and they do the job.... but who wants to ride their blender to work every day?

No, I own and ride my Guzzi because it's not a perfectly balanced, homogenized, mass-marketed appliance.

She has character, and makes any ride, even just across town, an adventure.
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Offline Tusayan

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2019, 09:35:56 AM »
What I find interesting about the Japanese industry is that while they were growing, they became known for high quality engineering in terms of performance,  but with little focus on long term supportability.  Meanwhile the Europeans were building bikes built to be maintained for decades as a major priority.   Nowadays the Japanese industry seems to have grown into maturity, making design decisions very carefully and with some level of conservatism:  for example they never got caught up in the warping plastic fuel tank debacle and their electronics seem to made reliable before release to the public.  Meanwhile, shockingly to me, the European industry has gone headlong into consumer throwaway mentality with poor implementation of new technology, poor reliability, complex dealer centered maintenance and low resale value.  The bikes (e.g. BMW and Ducati) sell mostly based on brand status.  The tables have turned completely and I’m left wondering if my ‘core values’ should lead me to Japanese bikes now, for the same reason they once led me to European bikes.

The V85TT is the first new European bike for a while that seems to me to be reversing the trend.  That’s encouraging to me.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 10:02:07 AM by Tusayan »

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2019, 09:56:51 AM »
For an interesting perspective read "Stealing Speed" by Matt Oxley.

great book.  well written and good story.
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline wirespokes

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2019, 09:57:20 AM »
What I find interesting about the Japanese industry is that while they were growing, they became known for high quality engineering in terms of performance,  but with little focus on long term supportability.  Meanwhile the Europeans were building bikes built to be maintained for decades as a major priority.   Nowadays the Japanese industry seems to have grown into maturity, making design decisions very carefully and with some level of conservatism:  for example they never got caught up in the warping plastic fuel tank debacle and their electronics seem to made reliable before release to the public.  Meanwhile, shockingly to me, the European industry has gone headlong into consumer throwaway mentality with poor implementation of new technology, poor reliability, complex dealer centered maintenance and low resale value.  The bikes (e.g. BMW and Ducati) sell mostly based on brand status.  The tables have turned completely and I’m left wondering if my ‘core values’ should lead me to Japanese bikes now, for the same reason they once led me to European bikes.

The V85TT is the first new European bike for a while that seems to me to be reversing the trend.  That’s encouraging to me.
Well said!

Offline Beowulf

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2019, 10:12:08 AM »
What I find interesting about the Japanese industry is that while they were growing, they became known for high quality engineering in terms of performance,  but with little focus on long term supportability.  Meanwhile the Europeans were building bikes built to be maintained for decades as a major priority.   Nowadays the Japanese industry seems to have grown into maturity, making design decisions very carefully and with some level of conservatism:  for example they never got caught up in the warping plastic fuel tank debacle and their electronics seem to made reliable before release to the public.  Meanwhile, shockingly to me, the European industry has gone headlong into consumer throwaway mentality with poor implementation of new technology, poor reliability, complex dealer centered maintenance and low resale value.  The bikes (e.g. BMW and Ducati) sell mostly based on brand status.  The tables have turned completely and I’m left wondering if my ‘core values’ should lead me to Japanese bikes now, for the same reason they once led me to European bikes.

The V85TT is the first new European bike for a while that seems to me to be reversing the trend.  That’s encouraging to me.




Can't entirely agree with this statement. I find Japanese bikes are often decent. I would venture to say that Japanese bikes have had as many throw away components on different models. Japanese bikes also have had a number of quality problems and recalls that do occur. Maybe not as often as some others. Yamaha actually has the most recalls but considering the number of bikes made is not bad. I think this a popular but skewed perspective.

I find kawasaki and Honda far harder to work on just for sheer accessibility. Maybe they break less but when they do( and they will) much harder to fix. If it has moving parts it will break.

Offline Tusayan

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2019, 10:15:08 AM »
Try working on virtually anything Aprilia has ever made if you want poor accessibility.  I think Guzzi is the best hope for my kind of European motorcycle, the rest have gone to a place I have no interest in going. 

Offline Beowulf

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2019, 10:55:12 AM »
I think guzzi is a unique animal. But if we are talking sport bikes of any variety im sure we can agree they are a pain to work on. I don't find Japanese bikes any better in these situations. You make your choice and ride what you like. As far as cruisers i find bmw, Guzzi far easier to work on.
 
Just one perspective among many.

Offline Tusayan

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2019, 11:13:52 AM »
I think guzzi is a unique animal. But if we are talking sport bikes of any variety im sure we can agree they are a pain to work on. I don't find Japanese bikes any better in these situations. You make your choice and ride what you like. As far as cruisers i find bmw, Guzzi far easier to work on.
 
Just one perspective among many.

Unique today, that’s for sure, especially when comparing the newest Guzzis with other new European bikes.  Cruisers don’t do what I want but I’d prefer to keep buying sporting bikes that are super easy to work on, never go to a dealer and can be maintained by me individually for the rest of my life.  My 900SS Ducatis are a good example, and my older Guzzis, and also my older Suzuki SV650.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 11:18:03 AM by Tusayan »

britman

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2019, 02:06:44 PM »
I enjoy them and the value on the early vintage models are starting to climb, (ie) Honda CL 305's, Dreams, Hawkes, 450's also, particularly the Scrambler models.  I try to find at least one or two a year to play with when the snow flies but they are getting very hard to locate at price I can afford.  A couple of shots of my last project, it lives with me now.....









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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2019, 03:46:30 PM »
I've owned a couple Japanese bikes, from Suzuki, Kawasaki, and currently have a Honda Goldwing.

Japanese bikes are great in terms of ease of living with them... but they have made them so reliable, so intuitive, and so smooth (Goldwing reference) that they have lost the "feel" of being on a motorcycle. They "feel" like a kitchen appliance. Simple, reliable, and they do the job.... but who wants to ride their blender to work every day?

No, I own and ride my Guzzi because it's not a perfectly balanced, homogenized, mass-marketed appliance.

She has character, and makes any ride, even just across town, an adventure.

  This....I posted on here a few years ago rebuilding a 81 Honda 750 into a cafe racer...lots of modifications like forks from a VFR, wider tires and rims, revised steering geometry and so on...It was a nice bike,much better handling and brakes ,a fine runner... But it was still "boring", I sold it and that was that...I get on my old 900 Monster and it's just a thrill ride..Or hustling the 79 Triumph 750 down the rural roads..On the Triumph even after the engine is shut down and you walk away, you can still feel the bike..LOL....
 But I'm a short distance rider, and hour is a long ride for me.. I also realize we all don't have the same likes and dislikes...

Online chuck peterson

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Offline Yeahoo Whoyah

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2019, 02:38:27 PM »
Quote
Honda Super Cub (the original one) is a thing of beauty
That’s my dog LuLu’s current favorite.


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Offline JohninVT

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Re: Japanese motorbike history
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2019, 09:22:05 PM »
The thing I’ve always found most grating about motorcyclists that only ride Italian bikes is when they say Japanese bikes are soulless.  Those people lack imagination.  This photo is from last year.  For my daughter’s high school senior project she took the MSF three day course to obtain her license, fixed up a 1975 Honda CT90(with plenty of help from me) and rode the Puppy Dog Trail.  She got a standing ovation and an A+ when she presented it.  I just dropped her off at UNC last week and she’s already begging me to bring her bike down.

Japanese motorcycles have launched hundreds of millions of people into a lifelong love of motorcycling.  No other country has made such an enormous contribution to motorcycling. 




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