Author Topic: V7 850 trouble in paradise  (Read 10086 times)

Online Kev m

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2021, 03:07:04 PM »
"That's life" it's an easy throw away statement until it's your own machine that's affected. It's a bit like "no worries it's got a warranty" Has anyone ever utilised the wonderful and amazingly easy and hassle free pathway most warranty claim end to end processes are for anything of a remotely technical nature is these days? I love fuel injection, wouldn't want to go back to carbs for any money but integrating the ecu and sensors into one unit is beneficially done for the manufacturer not the future owners. Cheaper, easier assembly, easier packaging and less wiring. It's not done for the good of the owner. Combine this with incompetent dealership mechanics and short warranty periods for motorcycles compared to the car world and there's room for concern. 
My V11 sport which has only done 42,000klm has had the ecu replaced (recently by me) for a failed baro sensor which is not that uncommon and has happened enough for there to be "home ecu repair" information on it for those with the abilities to carry out ecu disassembly and micro soldering. The previous 16M ecu had the baro sensor separate and easily replaceable. On the same bike I've re bushed and replaced the seals on the throttle body shafts ( a task I've done on 2 other Guzzi throttle bodies now) and they are good for about 50,000klms before shaft bushing wear starts affecting the low speed running and idle.
It's not an objection to technology for many it's an objection to integrating technology in a manner that's a risk for the owner in the medium to long term future. I know many people that stick to older vehicles because of this very concern and they aren't fools and luddites with regards to engineering skills believe me. What they are is smart enough to read the "tea leaves" with regards to future potential grief when "that's life" happens.
I love advancements in technology, bring it on I say but be aware who's the ultimate beneficiary, the owner or the manufacturer. Not really an issue for those that turn their vehicles over every 3-5 years but for those without access to a convenient technically competent dealer or are the "keeper type" it's worth considering the "modularisation" of the componentry.

Ciao

Nahhhh, it's fear and ludditeism.

Anecdotes are fine. All things will break eventually. If it's important enough people will find a solution (as your anecdotes address).

Sometimes the solution costs more than a set of points and some jets.

It's rarely insurmountable and often not all that horrible.

Yes integration was a cost saving measure this model. I never claimed it wasn't.

Then again you could buy what 5-10 of these whole bikes new for the cost of many new cars or trucks. Think about that for a sec.

I'm just putting it into perspective.

Again it'll be fine for a very long time when it is fixed.
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Online bad Chad

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2021, 08:03:24 PM »
Maybe just do pm?  I don’t know about others but I don’t have the patience to wallow through that much jargon.
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Online sdcr

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2021, 09:07:39 PM »
I hope that the OP keeps us apprised of developments.

The V7 850,  (I know, sounds like a strange name for an 850) is a sweet engine, and makes good power.
Considering all of the recent Guzzi offerings, this is the one that I find as a viable motorcycle to own.
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Offline TN Mark

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2021, 09:38:34 PM »
I'd suspect a poor connection somewhere more than I'd suspect a bad component. As mentioned, most electrical components last much longer than the bikes. A poor fitting, loose connection or corroded connector is more likely. Sometimes just disconnecting, cleaning and reconnecting wire harness connections will get rid of the 'fault'. A faulty wire crimp or a broken wire in an otherwise good looking connector is difficult to find.

PS - run, don't walk away from this dealer asap. They seem to do a poor job of hiding their incompetence. 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 09:49:29 PM by TN Mark »

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2021, 09:38:34 PM »

Offline greer

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2021, 05:09:53 AM »
So much for simple.  Dang.

Sarah
Sarah '21 V7 Special, '17 XT250, '17 V9 Roamer sold August 2021, '16 V7 II Stone sold September 2021, '08 Nevada Classic sold August 2020 
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2021, 05:18:24 AM »
So much for simple.  Dang.

Sarah



Yes not as simple as I hoped. I’m going to wait this one out and call the dealer in the prescribed time they gave for the shipping for the part. If I pull the bike from them I expect they will require payment for searching for the problem. If they don’t fix it in a reasonable time that may force my hand but I’m hoping for the best. I really just want the bike back so I can buy an exhaust and ride. I will keep you all updated when I find out more.

Offline 9fingers

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2021, 06:05:46 AM »
If you don't get help soon from said dealer I would craft a firm but polite note to Piaggio and ask them to intervene.
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Online sdcr

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2021, 06:08:51 AM »
Isn’t your bike still under the manufacturers warranty? If so, I would think that the “ diagnosis” would be covered by Piaggio. Don’t be surprised if they try to blame you, for by passing the kick stand switch.

 Just my opinion, but they should provide you with a loaner.


...
If I pull the bike from them I expect they will require payment for searching for the problem.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 06:10:48 AM by sdcr »
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2021, 06:27:37 AM »
Isn’t your bike still under the manufacturers warranty? If so, I would think that the “ diagnosis” would be covered by Piaggio. Don’t be surprised if they try to blame you, for by passing the kick stand switch.

 Just my opinion, but they should provide you with a loaner.
they already tried but when I explained it ran problem free after that and that’s what af1 instructed me to do to test that switch and they dropped the subject. I sent the switch to af1 they confirmed it was bad sent me a new one under warranty and I was waiting till next service to reattach it. Full disclosure I got rid of the canister it ran great for the last 4000 miles without it. What I believe helps my case with that is the bike isn’t throwing codes that the computer is reading. I sincerely believe it is just a loose connection but where I don’t know.

The loaner would be nice but was not offered and in my experience I’ve only seen bmw do that. Not saying it isn’t possible and honestly I didn’t ask. I did explain this my main vehicle and not a garage queen. I put only 40000 on my V7 ii so not a ton but as you can tell I didn’t spare it. I think the more I deal with them they are not exactly honest but I would hope as well the diagnosis will be covered.

Offline mechanicsavant

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2021, 06:38:37 AM »
Anyone had a dimmer switch “issue” ? The centanario & stone use a different one than the special’s . My Centanario’s got a bit wonky (good technical term eh) . It has no clear detents between “DRL” low or high beam kind of vague is an understatement. The dealer has received an incorrect one twice so far . Allegedly the mother ship has updated the part # but it’s not available yet !

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2021, 07:02:13 AM »
well thank you for posting that manual regarding the electronics. My favorite part :"

As a result, the functionality of these devices can only be
tested with the diagnostic software. The unit is contained in a sealed casing. In the event of
malfunction of any of the internal devices, the entire unit must
be replaced."

I know this was mentioned a few times. Does not seem like a bad system but I dont like the integrated unit. If this craps out after warranty I might be tempted to do something crazy like carbs. Hopefully wont come to that and I dont know if thats feasible.

Just to be clear the dealer I took this to is not MPH and I would like to state I have not had any dealings with MPH but I what I heard is positive and that I know they are always busy. Im glad I bought the bike from AF1 but Im hoping this sorts this out and I dont see this Houston dealer lasting long.

That of course is another issue.  Getting warranty service at a dealer you didn't buy the product from is a cause for heartburn for many shops.  I've had friends tell me that a shop told them to bring it back to the selling dealer because they didn't have time to deal with it.  I've had shops blow me off when it wasn't some straight forward parts change. 
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Online Kev m

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2021, 08:36:22 AM »
If it was a loose connection on a monitored circuit (most EFI inputs and outputs) the ECU should set a trouble code saying that circuit is open, shorted, or out of range

But I'm sure there are exceptions.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2021, 09:05:28 AM »
If it was a loose connection on a monitored circuit (most EFI inputs and outputs) the ECU should set a trouble code saying that circuit is open, shorted, or out of range

But I'm sure there are exceptions.
.


I get what your saying. It did say alarm ecu disconnect on the speedometer itself. So that’s what leads to think that. But it maybe unrelated. Mostly it’s brainstorming at this point until I find if they fixed it or not.

Offline lucky phil

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2021, 03:15:28 PM »
That of course is another issue.  Getting warranty service at a dealer you didn't buy the product from is a cause for heartburn for many shops.  I've had friends tell me that a shop told them to bring it back to the selling dealer because they didn't have time to deal with it.  I've had shops blow me off when it wasn't some straight forward parts change.

Yep, and that's because warranty work is a money loser for a dealership. The hours the manufacturers allow are always under par and sometimes the rate.The car world is the same. So the poor old dealer makes very little in real terms on the sale and gets screwed for warranty work as well. Add to that if they get the troubleshooting wrong and order the incorrect part then they wear that cost as well. Can't really blame them for turning it away. It's generally the dealer thats in it for more than the profit that will help you out. The car world is the same and I have many stories from both with regards to the warranty systems. I laugh when people think their worlds is protected from drama because they have, drum roll, a WARRANTY, lol. It's better than nothing but most cases not by much.

Ciao 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 03:20:15 PM by lucky phil »
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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2021, 08:06:36 AM »
Beowulf,

Any update on your situation?


.


I get what your saying. It did say alarm ecu disconnect on the speedometer itself. So that’s what leads to think that. But it maybe unrelated. Mostly it’s brainstorming at this point until I find if they fixed it or not.
John
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2021, 11:04:23 AM »
Absolutely nothing so far. The dealer said to check back in two weeks. I haven’t called to see if they ordered the parts. Will update when I have more info.

Offline greer

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2021, 05:26:34 AM »
 :angry:

In a dragged out case like this, the tech should be willing to speak to the customer and provide the specifics.  In my opinion.

Sarah
Sarah '21 V7 Special, '17 XT250, '17 V9 Roamer sold August 2021, '16 V7 II Stone sold September 2021, '08 Nevada Classic sold August 2020 
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Online sdcr

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2021, 07:18:09 AM »
I agree. IMO, the dealer situation is the main thing that Piaggio should try to rectify.

:angry:

In a dragged out case like this, the tech should be willing to speak to the customer and provide the specifics.  In my opinion.

Sarah
John
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #78 on: December 25, 2021, 08:55:13 AM »
Really hope that you get this sorted out and all turns out well soon.

My wife just got her little Mercedes GLA back from the dealer after they had it for 2 months.

She was having issues with the 4matic system and warning lights and problems with the Auto stop start.

She's in Virginia and I'm stationed in South Carolina so I couldn't come up to fix it. The car is almost out of warranty so she brought it to the dealer.

I told her I thought it was the secondary battery which is buried in the dash and runs all of those subsystems. The dealer said it was fine and replaced the main battery saying it would fix the problems. It didn't. Then the trained monkeys changed the controller board out for the 4matic system. That didn't fix it either so they ordered a completely new ECU for the car. They called her said it was all good and of course on the drive home all the problems came right back, in the car wouldn't drive.

Had a towed back to the dealer and what do you know.. they changed out the subsystem battery in the dash and all is now well. They wanted to charge her $600 for the battery. I had to call an intervene and they were willing to come the battery due to all the trouble and problems they cost her.

I was pretty sure this was the problem because during the early months of - when everyone was locked down and teleworking, the car at all similar problems. Did some research and found about the second battery and I assumed it was just low so I hook the car up to trickle charger for a couple days and the problem didn't return.

It said that there are so few true mechanics out there these days who can diagnose a problem. They want to plug it into the diagnostic machine and get a quick easy answer.



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Offline Motormike

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2021, 09:20:57 AM »
Off track here, but "secondary battery????" WTF?  I knew cars were getting ever more complex but really? A second battery buried under the dash somewhere?  We're getting into jet-aircraft levels of complexity at this point.  And I actually liked the little Mercedes GLA.  Oh well, scratch that one off the list.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 09:21:22 AM by Motormike »

Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2021, 01:30:38 PM »
Thanks for the kind thoughts recommendations and personal messages with advice and phone numbers of who to contact. I told the tech what happened and honestly I’m being reaffirmed in my desire to avoid tech’s.

I’m wishing I just traced the problem myself. I find this board more helpful than most of the Motorcycle techs. In the meantime I’ve been practically rebuilding this 2007 Mini Cooper s one thing has lead to another and I finished the turbo and timing chain, crankshaft seal, new belt, new catalytic converter, new exhaust seal, and am now going to replace the clutch and flywheel. It’s running good it just decided to give up the clutch after a second opinion it needs a new one. So here we go. Should be entertaining.

Offline Bulldog9

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2021, 01:38:01 PM »
Off track here, but "secondary battery????" WTF?  I knew cars were getting ever more complex but really? A second battery buried under the dash somewhere?  We're getting into jet-aircraft levels of complexity at this point.  And I actually liked the little Mercedes GLA.  Oh well, scratch that one off the list.

Yep, was a surprise to me too. Is easy to get to though, right behind the glovebox, and lasted 6+ years.
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Offline Huzo

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #82 on: December 25, 2021, 01:40:56 PM »
Great now you just assured he's gonna have problems with his wedding tackle too.  :shocked:
Was it the “downstairs plumbing..” ?

Offline twowings

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #83 on: December 25, 2021, 01:48:41 PM »
Thanks for the kind thoughts recommendations and personal messages with advice and phone numbers of who to contact. I told the tech what happened and honestly I’m being reaffirmed in my desire to avoid tech’s.

I’m wishing I just traced the problem myself. I find this board more helpful than most of the Motorcycle techs. In the meantime I’ve been practically rebuilding this 2007 Mini Cooper s one thing has lead to another and I finished the turbo and timing chain, crankshaft seal, new belt, new catalytic converter, new exhaust seal, and am now going to replace the clutch and flywheel. It’s running good it just decided to give up the clutch after a second opinion it needs a new one. So here we go. Should be entertaining.

Did you replace VANOS solenoids?
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #84 on: December 25, 2021, 03:44:45 PM »
Did you replace VANOS solenoids?


Yes I replaced the solenoids and camshaft sensor as well.

Online Kev m

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2021, 09:20:08 PM »
Was it the “downstairs plumbing..” ?

Duh
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Offline redhawk47

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2021, 10:31:33 PM »
I just read this thread tonight for the first time.  The sidestand switch bit raised a big RED flag for me.
Has that wiring been check/tested?  That the first place I would look. And I would install the replacement switch.

Dan
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #87 on: December 29, 2021, 12:45:08 PM »
So further update. Evidently the first tech working on the bike got --(hope gets better soon) and now I have a different tech who provided the part number to the fuel relay and honestly has been incredibly helpful. Hopefully it’s an accurate assessment. Part #  L5A 12V30A-2021 for those interested part is ordered so anyways hope this may help if accurate. Cautiously optimistic. I know the ecu is supposed to house a lot of this stuff as discussed previously.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 12:45:35 PM by Beowulf »

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #88 on: December 29, 2021, 01:56:19 PM »
They should have that...you would think. common relay#8224462 (ex AP8212469) I keep one as a spare.
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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #89 on: December 30, 2021, 05:34:05 AM »
Nov. 30-Dec. 30.  Hope to goodness things are on track now.  Thanks for the update.

Sarah

Sarah '21 V7 Special, '17 XT250, '17 V9 Roamer sold August 2021, '16 V7 II Stone sold September 2021, '08 Nevada Classic sold August 2020 
Doug '21 V85TT, '05 Sportster Roadster, '13 XT250

 

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