850 LeMans Series 1 advice

[77gears]

Hi Everyone,

I recently got my hands on a series one 850 LM. I am really happy to finally get one into my clutches. These blew my mind when I was a young teen.
It is a complete one owner bike but the owner changed a few things for comfort and performance. I am in the process of putting it back to stock. I have two questions for you all.

1)I need the clip ons.. he put superbike bars on it. Are they supposed to be chrome or black? I haven't seen any for sale.. are there any that are very close to original?

2) I have the original seat but it is in typical condition.. looks like hell and sits just like it looks. Has anyone seen the  'exact reproduction" made in italy ones? 595$ online. It is the monoposto one. It is an important part of the look of the bike so I will spend the money if they are accurate. I have two non-stock seats that will help finance the italian replacement.

I appreciate your input. I am sure more advice will be needed but this would be a great start!!

Many Thanks,
Peter

[1down5up]

clip-ons - they came in Chrome and black (well black zinc as the switches earth through the clipons via a bit of foil so paint is not going to work.

I have a blue 77 lemans from new, and it has the black zinc (along with black lower fork legs) - as far as I cna tell, Red bikes "generally": came with chrome clip ons, blue bikes with black - but this is by no means exact - I think the bikes with black sliders had black zinc clip ons

if I was you I would go for chrome - will last much better - the Black Zinc can get a greenish tinge over time and scratches more easliy.

Stein Dinse and MG CYcle both ave the clip-ons for a mk2 - they are the same except the holes for the switch gear wire which you could drill yourself if you got a few good photos and some measurements from someone with one off the bike

DO YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL SWITCHGEAR? if not, dont worry it is dainty but prone to breaking. stick some modern switch gear on it (via greg benders harnesses) and by the lemans 2 clipons - job done

Seat - I have seen and sat on the a reproduction mono seat - i thought it was very high quality and basically indistinguishable from the original - I have a repo dual seat (as per the series 2) and it is perfect (if not a little hard) except that 1 of the 8 captive nuts wasnt quite captive - no biggie.

[77gears]

Thanks so much for your input. I am not sure if it is the original switchgear but I believe it is. You can take a look. I just got the bike so I haven't had much time to look at it in detail. It is also dirty so you will see it "as found"

[77gears]

The plot thickens.. I think I just figured out where the clip ons went. I just measured the fork legs.. 38mm. I heard from the original owner that he upgraded the forks?.. maybe he put Marzocchis? He did a lot of hot rod stuff on this bike so it wouldn't surprise me. (carillo rods, big bore, twin plugs, deep sump, etc, etc.) It is a beast on the road. Loud, brutal, fast and fantastic.
I am waiting to pick up a pile of original parts that came with the bike. Maybe the forks are there. I haven't seen the parts yet.

[Cam3512]

What year is that?  Doesn't look like a '76 850 Lemans Series 1.  Looks to be '77 or '78?

[77gears]

Prod. Date June 1977... Model year 1978

[77gears]

I think I see what you mean.. series one is not the same as Mk1?
My mistake. Learning is good!

[jacksonracingcomau]

I think I see what you mean.. series one is not the same as Mk1?
My mistake. Learning is good!

Correct, tail light round on original

But think very hard before you undo what the owner did, perhaps it may have more value to trainspotter with oe forks but if anyone is ever going to ride it, Marzocchi 38’s are a world beyond, get them fitted with emulators and they are nearly modern forks. There was a reason for fitting them.
Bars are, of course, subjective but again there was a reason, those a bit high for me, still better than oe though.
My advice, FWIW, give it major service, maybe new shocks, definitely fork sevice/ emulators
Ride the wheels off it,

Seat is one that took me a while
Ripped original off within a couple of years, mainly because it had become a sponge but I also convinced myself that aftermarket was more comfortable. For a pillion it is , on my Le Mans same age I now have a current v7 seat
but I recently fitted original le mans seat to my 8v small block, covered in rooskin
Cracks now invisible, is waterproof (waxed), can ride all day with no discomfort at all
Fits all the criteria, looks oe for trainspotter ( or would if black!) , light as a seat can be (no base at all)
Even the missus hasn’t complained,

I wish I had kept all the le mans seats I chucked away years ago, recovering them would have been simple.
Again, ride it for a few thousand miles before anything.
Clip ons far more uncomfortable than that seat, as were oe forks and period shocks (IMHO of course )

[Cam3512]

I think I see what you mean.. series one is not the same as Mk1?
My mistake. Learning is good!

Correct.  Officially the first run were "850 Lemans".  That's broken down into series 1 and 2.  Then Lemans II (CX100 in USA), III, etc.

[steven c]

 I rode my LeMans lll for years with super bike bars, more comfortable, and better leverage for steering. The guy I sold the bike was going to put the clips back on but 15 years later he still has the super bike bars on it and still will not sell it back to me. My 77 850 I have stayed with the clip ons, because I don't ride it that much or long.

[PeteS]

If you are still thinking of returning it to original you won't want the monoposto seat. That only came on the '76 AKAIK. If you prefer the look then get it but given it wasn't on the bike when it was new plus its pretty uncomfortable put your money on improving the suspension. Both the original shocks and forks were pretty crude.

Pete

[guzzista]

The seat I found most comfortable for both my LM 850 and the CX 100 is the Gaman  ( short) seat. Gaman was a small motorbike accessories outfit in Italy. The seat has been replicated by Stucchi, but is not always available. Giuliari also made a LM seat but it was built as a valley front to rear and it forced the rider in the middle of the valley.  Worked for some, not for others.  Gaman also made a 2 up seat, which worked for some follks. My ex wife did find it OK in the pillion area. The Corbin seat may still be available. OK by me, but other Corbin seats I have had built for other bikes worked out better comfort wise.
The pics below are the  Gaman seats

[1down5up]

Thanks so much for your input. I am not sure if it is the original switchgear but I believe it is. You can take a look. I just got the bike so I haven't had much time to look at it in detail. It is also dirty so you will see it "as found"

Yep,that's the original switch gear. And as stated above yours is the same as mine, 850 Lemans (Series 2) the differences are tiny,different tail light and seat (but the seats never lasted anyway)

Have a think about which way you want to go, as stated above, the 38mm forks are likely much better. The 850 Lemans had unique forks, thinner tubes and a thread on the tube cap. If you find that you have the original ones you can upgrade the internals for FAC or Bitubo and put some Wurth progressive springs (a fork brace is also recommended) and I think you will find the forks action quite good.

Highly recommend you get a copy of Guzziology. You can buy it hard copy or for about $15 on Kindle, all the answers to questions you didn't know you would ask are in there.....

If you want to go original you can get just about everything you need new or repo, as many have said you can also create your own thing and expansion the previous owner, do what ever younwant and don't worry about the pendants.....just don't cut the frame up


.

[wicks]

Congrats! You have the same production run as mine - late 77 line for 78 model year. We've got the De Tomaso tail light which was the result of good hang times between Lino Tonti and his friends down the road at DT. The first year 76 had the old standard chunky tail light (which many value as it was the "first" year).

Mine is a very good reference bike as I bought it from original owner with 2049 miles on it, and he literally never turned a bolt on it. The original bars were black. No chrome. The original switchgear can be repaired. For example my headlight switch has a set screw and a smaller spring holding that mechanism together. The "LIGHTS" tag is glued back in place carefully over the set screw. Everything works great.

David Swanson just bought the seat you speak of for his restoration of the same bike. He was very pleased with the quality. Maybe you can clean yours up a bit with some black vinyl restoration goo and 3M Vinyl treatment (I do all my old bike seats with that).

Re front forks, yes you'll need to replace the triple clamp as well there and not sure what else to get everything to the front wheel back to stock. I used the WURTH progressives and new dampers from MG cycle for a stock look but better working forks. Handles great while looking original.

Happy to provide detail pictures and such as you get your parts together. Check with Curtis at Harpers, he has massive amounts of stuff not listed online, maybe he's got a complete set of forks and clamps for you. Or you can build up from each part readily available at reasonable prices to get your front end back together. http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2022

Seat, better price: http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=2919

Oh and  there are some photos and fork work info on my thread from bringing it back to running order: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=103243.0

[77gears]

Thank you all so much. This is all very helpful in getting this machine sorted.
Will definitely ask Wicks for some pics as I go along.
I think it will be ok to leave some of the mods as it is a high mileage bike (a rider) and will never be a museum collector bike. I really do want to get it back to its original look.
One challenge will be the exhaust. The exhaust is nice stainless but the mufflers don’t resemble the black originals at all and it really changes the look. I will get to work on that once I get the bars and seat sorted.
Thanks again. This is a fun winter project!

[wicks]

As long as your frame isn't bent you can bring her back up to original quality and every dime you put in can be gotten back out! ;) Keep us posted.

[moto-uno]

  I have the entire Le Mans 2 exhaust system in quite good shape . Contact me if interested .
They weren't a particularly performance oriented exhaust system , but they fit fine and didn't
disturb many people . Peter

[earemike]

I’d leave it as is mate, accumulate some original parts...

As is she might be a better ride.

I have a wreak with under 1000 miles - great reference bike.

Here many collectors would consider your mods acceptable, that front end was a period upgrade.

[77gears]

I have looked a little further into the paperwork that I have. As I said it was a one owner bike. The engine is all tricked out with Raceco everything. Hot cam, valves, Carrillo, high comp pistons, etc.
these were all period mods. All of the receipts are from now defunct MG places. Eish, raceco, famous moto shop in Seattle.. forgot the name but you all would know it.
No wonder it felt so fast on the road.
Thx again for all of your advice and expertise

[77gears]

Hi,
Not sure if anyone is still following this thread..
I finally got back to working on my bike.. life gets in the way.
Clip on question. I am keeping the Marzzochi forks and found some suitable clip ons from Italy. They are not drilled for wires yet.
I can see that the wires go through the bars to the switches so I have to do some machining. What I can’t see from any photos is where the wires enter the bars.
Any thoughts?
Thanks

[blackcat]

[Stevex]

Gutsibits in UK are selling clip ons for the original Le Mans and replica oem seats.
Search their site https://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/Home/index.php
Nice Mistral Classic system on your bike, I've just fitted one to my LM2, far nicer exhaust note than standard; I've removed the db killers too.

[77gears]

Thanks for the advice and photo Steve. Nice looking LM.
I see the clip ons are special order and I have some sweet new 35mms already so I will mill the slots I think. I have done it on Honda bars before.
The bike came with the Mistrals and they sound wicked/fantastic. I am really tempted to find some Lafranconis to get closer to the stock look. I always loved the shape of the black stockers. Can't find the Lafranconis anywhere right now. I want to ceramic coat whatever I end up with so it looks more oe.
Maybe I will try and trade mine? Do you know if they sound nice?
Many Thanks,
Pete

[77gears]

I meant 38mm. The marzocchi's are 38mm. That is why I didn't get the replicas. Too much time has past and I have forgotten more than I ever learned. lol.

[blackcat]

"Can't find the Lafranconis anywhere right now."

Eventually they will make another batch, I waited six + months before they showed up again.  In the meantime I'd order the black 40mm headers and yes, they sound great.

[Turin]

We need more pictures.... Really.

Decked out with Raceco Mods?  You lucky dog.  I'd clean her up and enjoy as is.

[77gears]

Thx guys.. will post some pics when I get closer. For sure this month.. hahaha.
I have adjusted my thinking and agree that the period correct mods are fine. They made it better.
I am just going to fix everything and use it as is.
Good advice.. thanks!

[77gears]

Hi Guys and girls,
I am back with updates, questions and photos that I promised.
I finally got the front end complete. The 38mm clip ons were a huge job. The switchgear, wiring, spacers, everything. Mock up, tear down, mock up, tear down. I rebuilt all of the brake hydraulics, etc. I am really happy with it. Looks like a really angry wasp from the front with the bars and the orange.. so cool.

So the bike is almost done getting it back to period correct hot rod. Oh, I came up with a cool trick to paint the light panel lettering. It really brightened up the whole dash. would look terrible if I tried to do it with a brush. Took me five min... let me know if you want the tip. I am not restoring, just preserving. Fixed up the stock seat too.















Question: It has a deep sump with an external oil filter (see pics). He had a oil temp dipstick with no marks on it?? Anyone know how many qts this is supposed to take?

I will post more pics when it is done.. soon.

As always, thx for your help and interest.
Best,
Peter

[Tusayan]

A million years ago (like 33 years ago  ), Pro Italia used to sell Le Mans clip ons that appeared completely stock but were sized for 38-mm Marzocchi Strada forks.  At that time I bought the fork kit from Cosmopolitan, intended for a LM III, to install on my CX100.  How difficult could it be?  More difficult than it appeared.  But God helps fools and small children (I was both) and PI had those bars...  which are still on the bike.

Mine has never had anything but the original seat, it’s exceptionally durable and is comfortable for me.  I did many long days on it for a decade or so when it was my main bike.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Oh, I came up with a cool trick to paint the light panel lettering. It really brightened up the whole dash. would look terrible if I tried to do it with a brush. Took me five min... let me know if you want the tip. I am not restoring, just preserving. Fixed up the stock seat too.

Question: It has a deep sump with an external oil filter (see pics). He had a oil temp dipstick with no marks on it?? Anyone know how many qts this is supposed to take?

Please do share your cool trick for painting the lettering.

AFAIK, the Bub sump holds the same as the original - 3 liters. The Bub sump has rubber hoses connecting things inside, might be a good idea to check the age and condition of the hoses and replace with new hoses that are up to the job - heat, pressure and being submersed in oil.