Did Rossi actually punt Marc off line just before that pivotal contact?

[Yukonica]

"Pivotal contact" was an intended pun....
I buy MotoGP online access. One benefit is being able to replay any sequence of any race in a database reaching back to 1992. Another benefit is to be able to study, frame by frame, the body language of riders.
Which brings me to my original question: did Rossi actually punt MM in the race in Argentina?

If anyone else on the forum buys Dorna's package; start looking at footage beginning around 53:08.
At 53:12 MM is diving inside when Rossi's shoulder appears to drop further into the corner than he normally does at those angles. Almost Moto3-like.
At 53:14 MM is about to kiss asphalt.
No judgements here on ethics or karma... it was ruled a racing incident. Just seems that rough and tumble doesn't end with 250cc.

[Doppelgaenger]

Marc should have accepted the fact that Rossi was passing him. He knew damn well at that point that with a crap rear tire that he wasn't ever going to stay in the lead. He got greedy and tried to stay on Rossi's ass by first bumping into him and then not falling back far enough to make the turn without hitting him.

Speaking of footage, did you see how Rossi completely soaked the girl that gave him the champagne? I thought that was absolutely hilarious. It seems to be a Rossi thing too...

[lucky phil]

"Pivotal contact" was an intended pun....
I buy MotoGP online access. One benefit is being able to replay any sequence of any race in a database reaching back to 1992. Another benefit is to be able to study, frame by frame, the body language of riders.
Which brings me to my original question: did Rossi actually punt MM in the race in Argentina?

If anyone else on the forum buys Dorna's package; start looking at footage beginning around 53:08.
At 53:12 MM is diving inside when Rossi's shoulder appears to drop further into the corner than he normally does at those angles. Almost Moto3-like.
At 53:14 MM is about to kiss asphalt.
No judgements here on ethics or karma... it was ruled a racing incident. Just seems that rough and tumble doesn't end with 250cc.

Believe me i'm no Rossi fan boy but MM fell for the old putting himself in the wrong place at the wrong time senario.
Its about trajectory and position point at impact and MM put himself in the danger zone just as Rossi did last season at one race when Bautista I think it was did a similar thing to him on the first lap in a left/right flip flop.
If youre going to press the point in an overtaking/hold your ground situation on the track then you must ensure that the other riders exposure is as great or greater than your own..

Ciao

[Aaron D.]

Done and done. Both riders are over it. Rough racing but no foul.

BTW what is it with thinking Marquez should have given up because Rossi was faster? Thank goodness the racers don't think that way or MM would win every weekend.

[boatdetective]

I don't get cable TV. Any way to see MotoGP online- or is the coverage totally locked up by MotoGP.com? I forget the rate- is it something like $100 for the season to watch?

[boatdetective]

Aaaargh!  Now MotoGP is somehow hijacked by "whatbrowser.org" in japanese.

I did a quick search and saw tha this may be a for real, malicious hack. I don't know- but i would not venture there until they figure things out.

[mtiberio]

100 euro for basic package (what I have). 140 euro for expanded package (multiple camera angles, extended live coverage post race, etc).

Both Rossi and Marquez do a lot of flat tracking. Flat trackers learn to kick their rear wheels to get rid of an annoying racer behind them on the outside. Did Rossi do it on purpose? Who cares. Marquez deserved it.

[Abbienormal]

I watched that a couple times as I have the subscription. I feel MM put himself in the wrong spot. When VR pulled the bike back upright for the next turn MM had his front wheel right against VR's rear tire. MM didn't have a chance as it looks like it pulled his front wheel up off the pavement. I wonder what was broke on his bike that he just looked then shut it off. Every angle they show makes me agree it was just a racing incident. Heck, MM hit VR in the leg seconds earlier which caused Rossi to say "F*** he's aggressive" at the post race interview.

[LowRyter]

What I saw:

1.  Marc tried to block him on the pass.

2.  After the pass, Marc aggressively went inside Rossi's rear tire to block him again.  And Rossi returned the favor by knocking him on his ass.  Brilliant.  

Rossi gave a bully a taste of his own medicine.  

I think MM shoudl've learned that you can lean on folks when you have a faster bike, but the situation quickly reverses when your bike is slower.  I doubt if MM has learned much.  Racecraft like Rossi's takes years of experience, after bikecontrol skills like MM's might have dulled a might.

Anyway you add it up, it's going to be an epic season.  Rossi better get all the points he can.  Honda will be gunning but they better get MM a team mate.

[mtiberio]

one wonders if Lorenzo comes on strong, if he will pull over or otherwise help Rossi win the title?

[Abbienormal]

one wonders if Lorenzo comes on strong, if he will pull over or otherwise help Rossi win the title?

The only way I could see that happening is
1) Lorenzo is in a position he can't possibly win the title AND
2) Yamaha bribes him.

[kirkemon]

I agree with LowRyter. If anyone hasn't seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afemtNbPbJM

[rdbandkab]

Loved it!

[jbell]

Thanks for the link, Kirkemon.  I hadn't seen it.  MM was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time after spearing Rossi on the previous turn.  It'll be an interesting season.

[Hugh Straub]

One does not need cable to watch Moto GP live.  I paid $100. for on online subscription and then connect my Ipad to the big screen TV.  Works a treat.

As aggressive as MM is, if thought he'd been fouled he'd be telling the world about it.  MM screwed up and acknowledged his fault.

Brilliant race by the Master.

[Yukonica]

Thanks for the link, Kirkemon.  I hadn't seen it.  MM was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time after spearing Rossi on the previous turn.  It'll be an interesting season.

 :+1

[boatdetective]

What I saw:

1.  Marc tried to block him on the pass.

2.  After the pass, Marc aggressively went inside Rossi's rear tire to block him again.  And Rossi returned the favor by knocking him on his ass.  Brilliant.  

Rossi gave a bully a taste of his own medicine.  

I think MM shoudl've learned that you can lean on folks when you have a faster bike, but the situation quickly reverses when your bike is slower.  I doubt if MM has learned much.  Racecraft like Rossi's takes years of experience, after bikecontrol skills like MM's might have dulled a might.

Anyway you add it up, it's going to be an epic season.  Rossi better get all the points he can.  Honda will be gunning but they better get MM a team mate.

I just watched it four or five times. I think you nailed it.  Part of it certainly was MM in the wrong place at the wrong time. The bigger part was VR being at the right place. It's very high stakes chess- and he is a master when it comes to tight work and timing like this.

[LaGrasta]

…sure was exciting, at any rate. VR is a legend and continues to prove it.

As for the sole American, it's sad and has been for years. With that said, his 2006 championship may very well be the most exciting year I've ever experienced.

[biking sailor]

Watched it several times and what I thought I saw...

M lost the back end braking hard for the right hander, R passed him on he inside late braking (fast in, out slow).  M tried to get R back on the inside of the turn and R shut the door, first contact.  Exiting the corner, I think M thought R would again go in fast and out slow to block M out (note the glance back R took to see where M was), but R checked up for a slow in fast out corner and that is what put M in the position to get his front taken out when R flipped over for the left hander.

Seemed like just good tough racing by both and a bad decision by M to put himself there a the transition to the left hander so a nice change-up by R took him out . Had R gone in to the lefty fast like the previous righty, M would have again tried to pass him on the inside on the exit.

Glad they ruled that it was just racing and M took it like a man.  His Facebook posts "kinda" admitted he realized he should have backed off and settled for the second place points, but it's more fun for the fans when emotions rule!   ~;. 

[earemike]

I thought he punted him, but in an I own this space kinda way, bad luck that MM was where he was to get his front wheel taken out.

[moltoguzzi]

I thought he punted him, but in an I own this space kinda way, bad luck that MM was where he was to get his front wheel taken out.

Your thinking is wrong and you didnt see anything even close to a punt. Rossi had no reason in the world to take a chance and tangle motorcycle tires and possibly crash. HE, ROSSI, covered a three plus second lead by Marquez in a few laps, was clearly much faster and all HIS passes were clean. I looked at the tape over a dozen times, and yes by frame, and Rossi did nothing wrong and was surprised by the contact, just like all the race experts said. In racing the rider that is following is responsible for NOT  running into the rider ahead of him, they have no rear mirrors, its the only way it can work.

[Bill Hagan]

Your thinking is wrong and you didnt see anything even close to a punt. Rossi had no reason in the world to take a chance and tangle motorcycle tires and possibly crash. HE, ROSSI, covered a three plus second lead by Marquez in a few laps, was clearly much faster and all HIS passes were clean. I looked at the tape over a dozen times, and yes by frame, and Rossi did nothing wrong and was surprised by the contact, just like all the race experts said. In racing the rider that is following is responsible for NOT  running into the rider ahead of him, they have no rear mirrors, its the only way it can work.

OK, molto, John K called to say he is withdrawing your appointment as U.S. Consul in Melbourne, replacing Frankie Reed.   ::)

But, I agree -- tho, obviously, from a rank amateur layman's perspective; having only raced bicycles, never motorcycles -- for reasons you stated.

For me, too, this clip is clearer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIWJeJbNHw

OBTW, I did once (and it only took once to teach me an unforgettable lesson) touch the rear wheel of another bicycle in a race, albeit one-on-one with a great friend with Veloce Club Thiene in Italy.  Yes, folks who only know of my present ... uhm ... "ampleness" ... may be forgiven for having difficulty imagining me on a bicycle, much less racing, but it's true.   ;)  

Anyway, the flash-to-bang time from touching to kissing pavement was faster than any of my several motorcycle "oh shix" events.  :o

Bill

P.S. Molto, the Secretary says Thule is still open.   ;D


[Edited to remove a repeated word.  Yes, I really should proofread before hitting the red launch button.   :D

[Aaron D.]

We were made to practice wheel touching in my bicycle racing days, it served me well several times.

[Bill Hagan]

We were made to practice wheel touching in my bicycle racing days, it served me well several times.

Absolutely, Aaron.

But "the red mist" can sometimes override (NPI) training, especially when young and stupid.  I was both.   ;)

Bill

[Nick]

....they have no rear mirrors....

Molto,
agree with everything you stated, but VR "did" know exactly where MM was/would be. Check out the quick headcheck here (a second or so before contact)  as he was about to swing right and get ready for the left coming up....The Master knew he basically had the right-of-way, MM was too hot at that point and (VR) took advantage of it.  ;)

[mtiberio]

Marquez breaks hand in practice crash. May make Jerez next weekend.

[Abbienormal]

Molto,
agree with everything you stated, but VR "did" know exactly where MM was/would be. Check out the quick headcheck here (a second or so before contact)  as he was about to swing right and get ready for the left coming up....The Master knew he basically had the right-of-way, MM was too hot at that point and (VR) took advantage of it.  ;)

I personally think that "head check" is actually a "What the f*** are you doing" directly after MM hit him in the leg. If you watch the post race interview Rossi says he thought "f*** he's aggresive" after that happened.

Rudy

Disclaimer: I like Rossi better than Marquez though I do admire MM. I dislike Pedrosa and if they don't watch out Dovisioso may end up with the championship. I also like Lorenzo and hope he gets better as this season progresses.

Rudy