Single most significant safety advance in the last decade of M/C?

[canuguzzi]

Lateral loss of traction? Here you go. Sorry but you're just unwilling to learn.

From one of the links.

"Traction control deals specifically with lateral (front-to-back) loss of friction during acceleration."

What does it take?

Led you to water. Chose to disbelieve it all you want.

[rocker59]

Lateral loss of traction? Here you go. Sorry but you're just unwilling to learn.

From one of the links.

"Traction control deals specifically with lateral (front-to-back) loss of friction during acceleration."

What does it take?

Led you to water. Chose to disbelieve it all you want.

Oh, for doG's sake...  You're a trip NP.   I thought you didn't use Google...  Now you're posting up any link you can find! Nothing on motorcycle ABS/TC, though, huh?  LOL!


lat�er�al
ˈladərəl,ˈlatrəl/
adjective
1.
of, at, toward, or from the side or sides.

[oldbike54]

 Uh , you led us to how a 4 wheeled vehicle works . Hell , the article even states stability control , which MCs don't have , is a spinoff from ABS .

  Dusty

[racasey]

TC works basically the same way as ABS . It measures wheel speed against the speed the MC is traveling . Sorry NP , but yes the two systems use the same sensors and ECU circuitry .

  Dusty

The answer depends on whose electronics are being used.  Magnetic Marelli on my MV Agusta measures rate of change on the crankshaft. 

One of the advancements I particularly enjoy is slipper clutches, and I'd place it next to tyre improvements, high on my list.

Ciao,
DC

[oldbike54]

The answer depends on whose electronics are being used.  Magnetic Marelli on my MV Agusta measures rate of change on the crankshaft. 

One of the advancements I particularly enjoy is slipper clutches, and I'd place it next to tyre improvements, high on my list.

Ciao,
DC

 That is interesting .

 Yes , slipper clutches are cool .

  Dusty

[Arizona Wayne]

That is interesting .

 Yes , slipper clutches are cool .

  Dusty

My Suzuki `91 VX800 has a slipper clutch.  It helps when down shifting. 

[rocker59]

The answer depends on whose electronics are being used.  Magnetic Marelli on my MV Agusta measures rate of change on the crankshaft. 
 

Interesting, but what does it compare the crank's speed to?  Does it not compare engine speed to wheel speed/road speed? And isn't road speed now measured (along with wheel speed) with the ABS tone rings?

[canuguzzi]

Oh, for doG's sake...  You're a trip NP.   I thought you didn't use Google...  Now you're posting up any link you can find! Nothing on motorcycle ABS/TC, though, huh?  LOL!


lat�er�al
ˈladərəl,ˈlatrəl/
adjective
1.
of, at, toward, or from the side or sides.

There you go again. Where did I say I didn't use Google?

I said specifically that I rarely use Wikipedia but I guess as long as ABS is the same thing as Traction Control, Wikipedia might as well be Google or the Internet.

That was really funny Rocker. And all along I thought BMWs and Moto Guzzis had different engine designs, little did I know that because they both used gasoline and both had two cylinders they were the same bikes.

 

Hurry, someone tell Honda, Kawasaki, BMW and all the rest they are totally screwed up, ABS is traction control because they MIGHT use some of the same sensors.

[oldbike54]

My Suzuki `91 VX800 has a slipper clutch.  It helps when down shifting. 

 I think we were referring to a back torque limiting clutch that prevents wheel hop . Interesting , didn't know the old V twin Suzukis had a form of slipper clutch .

  Dusty

[canuguzzi]

Now excuse me while I go out and throw the steaks on the block of dry ice because there is no such thing as cold really, there is just absence of heat and everyone knows dry ice burns too.

Peace 

[oldbike54]

Now excuse me while I go out and throw the steaks on the block of dry ice because there is no such thing as cold really, there is just absence of heat and everyone knows dry ice burns too.

Peace 

 While you are at it , buy a GT 750 and make it stop from a true 60 MPH in 117 feet 

  Dusty

[canuck750]

Education


Drinking and driving riding is dangerous

Helmets save lives

Loud pipes just piss people off

[Scud]

Education


Drinking and driving riding is dangerous

Helmets save lives

Loud pipes just piss people off

 :1:

When I saw the original question about safety advances, I also thought education.

I've got a couple new-riders at work (and I'm trying to get them off the Harley Sportsters...). However, they watch crashes on YouTube and analyze what went wrong and how to prevent similar errors. And since I'm an old fart and still reasonably fast (at least I seem blazingly fast to them), they want to talk situations with me.

The technology can only go so far - then the remaining errors are due to human factors. This is similar to safety training in the aviation industry. Historically, the causes of "incidents" were mostly mechanical. Then, as technology improved, the mechanical faults declined - which dropped the total number of incidents, but raised the percentage of incidents due to human factors. Today, the majority of airline incidents are due to human factors and the biggest safety advances have to do with better communication, decision making, situation awareness, etc.

On yesterday's "Scura Rally" a couple sport bike riders alerted us to the possibility of black ice ahead. That sort of communication, concern for fellow riders, and situation awareness is, IMO, just one example of education: the biggest advance in safety in the last decade.

BTW - during our "rally" we rounded one corner on Mulholland Drive that is notorious for filmed crashes. I recognized it and slowed way down. There's no f-ing way that I'm going down on that spot.

[John Warner]

Two-part test for car drivers.
It's still woefully easy for people to pass the car test, and until that changes significantly, all the electronic gizmos in the world won't help . . . 

[canuguzzi]

While you are at it , buy a GT 750 and make it stop from a true 60 MPH in 117 feet 

  Dusty

Oh look, double down because one thing might use sensors from another means they are the same thing.

If only all the Dodge Ram owners knew their trucks were actually Ford F150s because both use the same fuels.

Whoda thunk.

Hey Dusty, ever think of proving whatever Cycle World or whatever mag tested the thing was wrong instead of just saying so? Seems just because you say something it must be. Like ABS being the same thing as Traction Control right? Suspenders too tight?

If you can't prove otherwise, just say it ain't so.

Man really did land on the moon. I know its hard to believe but really, they did. And no, they didn't find little green men there nor any cheese.

But what the heck, you win, ABS is the same thing as Traction Control cause you know, you said so. Forget proving it, who needs proof when you can just say so. You are right and every motor vehicle manufacturer is wrong. How are I not believe?

[Penderic]

Situational Awareness!

New vehicles that can now talk to each other and provide important road/traffic conditions and recommendations to the rider and other drivers, in a timely and easy to comprehend way,of course!

http://www.vt.edu/spotlight/impact/2013-09-30-motorcycles/connected.html


Wheres my prize?

[kingoffleece]

Some very rude comments here.

My friends who work at Triumph tell me that the ABS sensors and technology that goes with it make all the other stuff possible on the motorcycles they make.

[Cam3512]

I think the recent intro of airbag vests and jackets will prove to be huge.  Expensive now, but hopefully prices will come down.  Nice to have when all your TC, ABS, and sphincter control fails when the old lady pulls out in front of you. 

[stevet]

All of this technology is meaningless without a solid rider training background and constant practice to hone your skills.  Avoiding problems before needing the technology to save your flesh is what I feel is most important.

Steve.

[Penderic]

Robots.

[lucian]

The way I see it, if you're a good enough rider, you don't need all these electronic aids to make up for your lack of competence.  A skilled rider instinctively knows what to do by feel in most conditions.  Either it comes to you automatically or you need an aid to get you thru the moment safely.

I don't need no stinkin' ABS!   The Guzzi integrated braking is all I need on most Tonti bikes.

I respectfully disagree with this . There is no doubt that skill is the no. one safety feature, however in certain situations it will only bail you out to a point. T.C. can prevent a situation from reaching a threshold where even the most skilled rider is doomed. In the age of 100 plus h.p. bikes it provides a huge advance in safety. The very best riders in the world rely on it every race so why not pass  it's benefits on to us street riders? I'm not saying every bike needs it , but something kicking out 100+ ft.lbs. of torque, can't hurt.

[tiger_one]

I must pull the KTM card again.  Bosch was first, working with KTM to incorporate lean sensitive TC/ABS on the 1190.  KTM received 1 year free before Bosch could sell the system to other MC brands.

Until you hit the brakes hard in a curve and NOT have the bike standup but just slow as you wish, traction allowing brakes to the max for the conditions, you have not ridden!

[oldbike54]

 When did we land on the moon and was it made of cheese ? Must have been asleep 

 Interesting way of to confuse the issue at hand , sure we landed on the moon , what does that have to do with this discussion 

 
 Dusty

[lucydad]

Hmmm, redirecting a bit away from the machinery itself (and my opinion the big plus is integrated ABS/braking/traction and CAD design)---what has changed?  To me:  safety training as in the many fine basic schools required before getting the M endorsement on a license.  Then there are forums where questions can be asked (i.e. best way to handle high speed Houston freeway riding) and getting truly valuable answers and advice. 

Damn I wish it would dry out here.   Roads are slime, and no sun, ugh.

[Xlratr]

Isn't it great, how a discussion on wheel spin/lock can get so emotional  ?

What Rocker and Dusty are saying is of course absolutely correct ie, ABS and Traction Control are obviously not the same thing but they are related, and traction control was developed out of ABS. Here's a nice Link that says exactly that:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/28000-traction-control-explained.htm

John

[HDGoose]

Bosch "Cornering ABS"  Try grabbing a handful of front brake in the middle of a turn on a wet road without it?

Or with it, unless they now calcuate lean angle.

[LowRyter]

sorry, I don't own a motorcycle newer that 15 years old.  Even my oldest bike with 80k miles has radial tires and cartridge forks.  Two of my 3 bikes have fuel injection.  All have a disc brakes. 

I guess I'll read about what I am missing.

I've been wearing helmets and gear for a long time.

Here ya go.  Cycle Gear sells ATGAT  cheaply available.  Now you can get full gear for a cheap price and just shop for it in town.  Of course the Internet helps too.  But it's great just to walk in and shop and can find everything you need at a cheap cost.  Finding riding pants, riding boots and gloves used to be a challenge.  Typically you could only get helmets and occasional jackets.  Also on-road and off-road stuff. 

[LowRyter]

well way to go Chad. 

Set off a food fight over ABS and traction control.

 

 

 

[Arizona Wayne]

Like old school trained top road racer Nicky Hayden says, the  more electronic gizmos on a bike keep the rider from having to learn the skills they need to do the same thing w/o them.  The gizmo rider relies on them to bale his ass out when he can't cope with the situation.  The real answer is the rider learns the skills needed himself and is prepared for almost anything that he encounters.

Any rider who doesn't have the skills needed to control a 100 or more hp bike should not ride 1.  Hell, 70 hp is more than enough in most situations.   My LM IV had 62 hp on a dyno and it was way more than I really needed, thusly I sold it.

[Perazzimx14]

All my bikes are almost equally paralleled as far as technological advancement. Only one of the 8 even having fuel injection and none having fancy traction control or ABS or other modern wizardry. So in my case I'll have to say the biggest safety advance for me is cost effective the HID headlights.