Motorcycle shopping - Rambling, Ranting, Looking for thoughts M(inimal)GC

[alanp]

This will get long, but the background is I have been a long time lover of motorcycling and find myself loving it more and more.  I just returned from a 4000 mile trip to CA and am heading to ILL in a couple of weeks.  Also, I have reached the stage in life where I can fortunately afford any motorcycle I want.  So I have been shopping for "The One Bike to Rule Them All".  It would replace the Triumph and the Suzuki in my signature, the Lemans stays.

My initial criteria (potentially subject to change)
-2 up and touring capable
-Sport tourer or ADV bike
-More power than my 650 vStrom  (for passing and riding on the well known "closed tracks")
-Not too big (i.e. not a Goldwing)
-And, to keep this ramble from getting way too long, Japanese.
-Japanese because a) reliability, b) wider dealer networks and c) I would really like a LOCAL dealer (rules out everything non Japanese except KTM)

OK, so with that in mind, I have been shopping.  And although I said Japanese, I haven't ignored BMW, KTM, Guzzi, Aprilia or Triumph but they are on the back burner for the reasons stated.  Here is the odd thing I am finding, keeping in mind I can really get anything I want:  There isn't anything I want! 

Kawasaki Versys 1000 - sort of bland, bars seem too close, don't like the stock luggage.  Kind of a Mazda CX-5 when a Lexus RX is more what I am thinking. 
Suzuki vStrom 1000 - see Kawasaki above.  Its OK, but these are both pretty basic bikes, kind of the crank window and manual door locks version on a modern motorcycle
Kawasaki Councors 1400 - A gigantic pig.  And kind of outdated. 
Yamaha - Aha!  I am looking at Yamaha's and thinking I have found the holy grail.  That Super Tenere looks really  nice, and the FJR has had a stellar reputation in the sport touring circles for years. 
So I ride the Super T.  Nice bike - really nice.  But the throttle response (it has two modes) is really snatchy in sport (s) mode.  REALLY snatchy.  Like gave me whiplash snatchy, the worst I have ever experienced by far.  So I get on the forums and ask about it.  The just of it is, yes it is snatchy and there is not really a fix.  I was surprised at how many people said they just use the T mode (trail or touring?) to avoid the snatch.  In T mode the bike might have as much zip as my 650 vStrom, maybe.  It is a totally unacceptable situation IMO.  OK, the FJR.

The FJR is a pretty sweet bike.  One test ride and I am hooked.  Second test ride just to make sure, not.  I experienced head shake (tank slapper almost).  Dealer takes the bike out and agrees, yes it has a head shake.  I have ridden dozens of bikes and only once did I ever experience this (on a 1987 K100 that I sold because it had head shake that could not be fixed).  All my Guzzi's have been rock solid, especially my Lemans.  So, to the forums to see if this is a one off problem.  Nope.  Apparently all sorts of people have this issue with the much vaunted FJR.  A fix might be to installed tapered roller headset bearings.  Or not.  This is not an acceptable condition to me (I detest head shake!) and I go away from the Yamaha dealer feeling like Yamaha is a company that doesn't know how to build a motorcycle that works.  And this is a very unexpected feeling. 

So Honda.  Wow, I just can't see anything they make that is remotely interesting to me.  They have built a wall between me and their products, and it is one butt ugly wall!

So here I sit, wanting a nice shiny new motorcycle - literally anything I can dream of - and thinking that 650 vStrom has been a really nice little bike.  Why bother to replace it?  This was not the outcome I was expecting... 

[Xlratr]

I know what you mean. There are really very few new bikes out there that appeal to me. But looking at what you want from a bike (and ignoring the fact that you said "Japanese") i would think an 8v Guzzi would really fit the bill. Have you ever ridden a Stelvio?

Edit: check out Mooney's post on his back road Stelvio trip.

[oldbike54]

 Wholey Schmidt some of you guys are hard to please 

 Dusty

[alanp]

Wholey Schmidt some of you guys are hard to please 

 Dusty

I know, but you feel my pain right?  ....Right?

[alanp]

I know what you mean. There are really very few new bikes out there that appeal to me. But looking at what you want from a bike (and ignoring the fact that you said "Japanese") i would think an 8v Guzzi would really fit the bill. Have you ever ridden a Stelvio?

Edit: check out Mooney's post on his back road Stelvio trip.

Yes, I have.  It, the BMW GS and KTM Adventure are all too tall for me.  The other ADV bikes I mentioned are just enough smaller and/or lighter that I am comfortable with them. 

[maquette]

Alan,

I think you already have the answer, . . . you own it. The 650 V is hard to beat in so many ways. I sold mine and have missed it just about every day. Otherwise, depending on your definition of "Adventure", I'd get the Wing. Don't know if you've ridden one of the new ones, but they are surprisingly fast and handle quite well for a big bike.

If you can get a do around for the Super Ten, then I would say that's the bike.

Good luck.

Tom

[Huzo]

There may be some truth to the idea that you don't choose the right bike, it chooses you. Seems to me the best bikes I owned were the most "interesting" ones not necesssrily the best analyticslly, how they go on paper seems to matter less and less these days, maybe 'cos I don't ride on paper! It's a pretty good position to be in though isn't it, meandering through the mass of machinery and working towards a decision. Good luck mate, I hope you enjoy the search. Huzo.

[alanp]

Alan,

I think you already have the answer, . . . you own it. The 650 V is hard to beat in so many ways. I sold mine and have missed it just about every day. Otherwise, depending on your definition of "Adventure", I'd get the Wing. Don't know if you've ridden one of the new ones, but they are surprisingly fast and handle quite well for a big bike.

If you can get a do around for the Super Ten, then I would say that's the bike.

Good luck.

Tom

Good input!  I should say that I am not at all unhappy with the way things stand, just really surprised that the answer might be what I already have.  I agree about the 650 strom.  It is the best all around bike I have ever had, and but for a few more ponies I wouldn't even be looking. 

Also agree about the Super T.  It would be the answer if they could make one that didn't have THE ABSOLUTE WORST FUELING ON ANY BIKE, EVER.   

As for the Wing, you are probably right but I am not a Wing guy.  You might notice that I didn't mention Harley or Victory or Indian either.  I am also not that sort of guy.  No offense intended to anyone, just not my things.   

[Dharma Bum]

Well Alan, I'm sure there's something out there that will work for you.  At least you have the Lemans to remember what a motorcycle feels like. If you are happy with the Weestrom, other than the power, maybe the  bigger Vstrom would work?

[stmike]

I know it's not Japanese, but have you considered any of the BMW R1200R variants? Both the cam heads and the newer liquid cooled models are very satisfying rides.

[jbell]

Alanp, part of the problem you are facing might be the changing face of the motorcycle industry.  In a word, niche.  Back in the old days (sigh, not again) motorcycle choices were much more limited and our expectations, as well, were more limited.  Today, you want a 1000cc?  Well, sport bike, touring bike, adv bike, dirt bike?  There are always trade offs in specialization and I think this is what may be affecting your decision.  The market has changed, the choices have expanded exponentially and "resistance is futile."  Good luck with your search. 

[canuguzzi]

Now Yamaha doesn't know how to build bikes?

Fitting tapered bearings is a common.practice, among many brands, costs very little and can be done befire you pick up the bike.

So now what is the issue? Power? It has it. Gear ratios? It now has a 6 speed. Comfort? Plenty of adjustments available and so are loads if accessories. Technology? Take your pick and if you want simple they have a model for that too. Weight? You want more than a 650 VStrom right? That is no lightweight so if you want Japanese you've sort of culled the available herd already and ...

Want to be able to run 4000 miles, then do it again and take only your credit card and not need to plan around sparse dealers? The FJR does it in spades.

Fit and finish? Just looked at them and it is nothing but first class.

Seems you already said no to pretty much most of what is out there meeting your criteria and other than a very minor issue with the FJR it does everything you want.

That VStrom 650 isn't perfect either, you are just used to it and accept what faults it might have. Apply the same to other bikes and I bet there are plenty you'd  be happy with.

I wonder about he headstock shake though. It isn't like it shakes going down the road and there is a fix, the VStrims do it too. No chain maintenance vs a simple tapered bearing install? Not even a question.

[pebra]

You said you can afford any bike you want.
Would you consider modifying one? Thinking starting with a e.g. Norge, big Breva, 1200 Sport.

[jim_W]

  I just spent about a year with the same problem. I rode an ST1100 Honda for about 250,000 miles and thinking of retiring I was in the market for a new bike to replace the ST.  Went to my local Honda store as I have been more than satisfied with the Honda's that I have owned. Nothing there that even came close to the old ST1100. I rode a used ST1300 but liked it, not so much and they no longer make them.   Tried a Yamaha and Kawasaki  but no.   
  I ended up buying a 2015 left over Norge and I couldn't be happier. No dealer in every town but if the truth were known, there are probably very few Honda dealers who I would feel comfortable with fixing my bike.  Mostly I'll do it myself anyway.
  So far I am very happy with the Norge. It has all the comfort of my old ST and much more personality.

[twowings]

Ride a new Stelvio...you owe it to yourself before you make a decision...

[zedXmick]

The VFR1200 checks off 5 of your boxes,and it's shaft drive like a true Sports Tourer should be.  I have the DCT version and love it. You can get factory hard bags for it also. You can now get electronic cruise control for the VFR,info in this link. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/83266-veefour-electronic-cruise-control-installed-and-tested/

My ride: 2010 VFR 1200  DCT

[alanp]

Now Yamaha doesn't know how to build bikes?

Fitting tapered bearings is a common.practice, among many brands, costs very little and can be done befire you pick up the bike.

So now what is the issue? Power? It has it. Gear ratios? It now has a 6 speed. Comfort? Plenty of adjustments available and so are loads if accessories. Technology? Take your pick and if you want simple they have a model for that too. Weight? You want more than a 650 VStrom right? That is no lightweight so if you want Japanese you've sort of culled the available herd already and ...

Want to be able to run 4000 miles, then do it again and take only your credit card and not need to plan around sparse dealers? The FJR does it in spades.

Fit and finish? Just looked at them and it is nothing but first class.

Seems you already said no to pretty much most of what is out there meeting your criteria and other than a very minor issue with the FJR it does everything you want.

That VStrom 650 isn't perfect either, you are just used to it and accept what faults it might have. Apply the same to other bikes and I bet there are plenty you'd  be happy with.

I wonder about he headstock shake though. It isn't like it shakes going down the road and there is a fix, the VStrims do it too. No chain maintenance vs a simple tapered bearing install? Not even a question.

Norge Pilot,

I agree that the FJR is a good fit for me, but of all the flaws an otherwise fully functional motorcycle could have, head shake is the single most objectionable to me, just short of maybe "the front wheel has a tendency to fly off at speed".  No amount of shake is tolerable in my book.  Fortunately I have only experienced it on one bike before the FJR, but my experience with that bike makes me leery.  I put lots of time and money into trying to fix the shake, and it never went away.  New head bearings, new tires, different pressures, suspension setup, truing the wheels, etc.  Nothing helped.  So while it MIGHT be that a new set of tapered roller bearings would fix the FJR problem.

As for other bikes having flaws, sure, or at least shortcomings depending on how you want to look at it.  But head shake is the king of flaws in my book. 

[alanp]

Well Alan, I'm sure there's something out there that will work for you.  At least you have the Lemans to remember what a motorcycle feels like. If you are happy with the Weestrom, other than the power, maybe the  bigger Vstrom would work?

It is the best bet so far.  Like the 650 to me, it is a fine bike with no major shortcomings.  But I was kind of looking for "more", and there is all the farkling that has to be done to make it as good as my current 650 (Corbin seat, windshield, heated grips, luggage, crash bars etc. etc.

[alanp]

By the way everybody, thanks for playing along.  It is a cold rainy Sunday here, so this is entertaining me immensely!   

[alanp]

The VFR1200 checks off 5 of your boxes,and it's shaft drive like a true Sports Tourer should be.  I have the DCT version and love it. You can get factory hard bags for it also. You can now get electronic cruise control for the VFR,info in this link.

Hey, there is something that wasn't on my radar and I need to check it out.  And despite my previous Honda comment, this is not ugly.  Thanks.

[stevet]

Bummer about your discounting of the FJR.  I've got about 26000 on my 2010, bought new in 2011.  The only front end related issue I ever had was with a worn out front tire, otherwise never an issue.  A friend has the same bike, no issues from his, either.  I never read of shimmy problems in magazine reviews.

I tested the Super Tenere a couple years ago.  Boy, did that bike fit me like a glove.  It had a quick throttle but nothing I thought about after the first observation.

Steve.

[alanp]

SteveT,

I haven't completely discounted the FJR.  It is my favorite of the bikes I have ridden.  But as I said, the one I rode had a head shake, I see on the forums that head shake is not uncommon, so I have to figure out if there is a way to get one and be CERTAIN that it won't have that issue.  Installing tapered roller bearings MAY be the answer.  But how to be sure?

[GearheadGrrrl]

I've ridden 21k miles on my Super Tenere, and better than 99% of them in "T mode". My experience is pretty common- unless you want super sport bike throttle response, "T mode" works best.

[rboe]

A buddy has the Concours, loves it. A bit of a gear head (Honda XR650R, Ducati Monster, 911) and should probably be arrested for speeding. Loves the big brown Kawasaki. But as far as I know only rides one up.

It seems that many of these bikes tick all the right buttons save the "character" button. So I'll humbly suggest that you get a bike that does tick most of the boxes, character be damned (you have the Lemans for that) and enjoy the machine and being in the wind.

I have found that too many times, character gets in the way on long rides while the "appliance" lets one enjoy their vacation.

Honda; I seem to be a fan of the brand (have the CB1100 - love it!, XR650L, like the bike but a real POS so far, love the looks of the VFR but does not fit me well and considering the Africa Twin - not out yet and from what I have read I think you should at least pencil it in).

A fellow Guzzi rider had a Triumph Rocket III. He sold it for an Indian because of the need for a full dresser - but he was in awe of that bike. It's too big, it's too brash, but the torque will put a smile on your face that won't quit. :D Totally impractical so go for it.

Otherwise. Get something that does the job very well and enjoy the time on road in the wind - and hopefully you won't miss the character until you can get back on the goose.

[Huzo]

I have found that too many times, character gets in the way on long rides while the "appliance" lets one enjoy their vacation.

That's so damn true it's scary, took a BMW R1200 GS to Nordkapp last year 'cos I didn't have the guts to trust the Norge. But I didn't enjoy the trip as much as a result, now I'm faced with the same decision again this year.

[fotoguzzi]

the VFR1200 looks promising.. I know it's British but the new Tiger could be worth a look..

[Piston]

SteveT,

I haven't completely discounted the FJR.  It is my favorite of the bikes I have ridden.  But as I said, the one I rode had a head shake, I see on the forums that head shake is not uncommon, so I have to figure out if there is a way to get one and be CERTAIN that it won't have that issue.  Installing tapered roller bearings MAY be the answer.  But how to be sure?

Don't know about an FJR, but my FJ 1200 is rock steady at 150. Its an older model (air cooled) but might be worth a look.

[Huzo]

Don't know about an FJR, but my FJ 1200 is rock steady at 150. Its an older model (air cooled) but might be worth a look.

Yep, can't kill 'me with an axe !

[Huzo]

Bugger! Meant to say, can't kill 'em with an axe ! I could probably be killed with an axe, but don't give anyone on the forum any ideas!

[Darren Williams]

I've got a 2015 FJR 1300A.  About 12,000 miles on it.  It started getting a shimmy on decal around 45 MPH when you would take hands off the bars.  Started about 4,000 miles in and continued until I changed tires at 9,000 miles.  I couldn't wait to get rid of the Bridgestones.  Front started cupping real bad and was only comfortable straight up or way leaned over, had to hold it anywhere in between. All the suspension tweeking did no good. New tires solved the handling and shimmy issues. Got 3,000 miles on a set of cheap (Shinko Raven, cough cough) tire and bike will go into triple digits on grooved pavement and scrape its pegs and be rock steady doing either.

It is an "appliance", but an economical, comfortable and fast "appliance".  I got it late in the season last year and got a pretty good deal as the 6 speed '16s were announced.

Good luck on your search.  Oh screw it, just go get a Motus!  We all want one!