Motorcycle shopping - Rambling, Ranting, Looking for thoughts M(inimal)GC

[toaster404]

Is so very difficult.  So many bikes have gotten so big and gaudy.  Like mine.  My wife looked at EVERYTHING.  Not happy.  Picked up a 2009 Versys 650 a couple of days ago that she is in love with.  Go figure.  Much zippier than the newer version.

And the DL1000 VStrom does seem a bit dull in comparison! 

We rode so many different bikes and had this same "why bother" experience.

[charlie b]

Just curious but did you try the Honda Africa Twin or VFR1200X? 

Seems like the VFRX would be a good candidate.

I know of three FJR owners who were very happy with theirs once they changed tires.

[drlapo]

FJ09 or Tiger 800

[Chuck in Indiana]

FJ09 or Tiger 800

I don't know how well the FJ09 would fit the "two up" criteria. Don't know anything about the Tiger 800.

[vstevens]

This will get long, but the background is I have been a long time lover of motorcycling and find myself loving it more and more.  I just returned from a 4000 mile trip to CA and am heading to ILL in a couple of weeks.  Also, I have reached the stage in life where I can fortunately afford any motorcycle I want.  So I have been shopping for "The One Bike to Rule Them All".  It would replace the Triumph and the Suzuki in my signature, the Lemans stays.

My initial criteria (potentially subject to change)
-2 up and touring capable
-Sport tourer or ADV bike
-More power than my 650 vStrom  (for passing and riding on the well known "closed tracks")
-Not too big (i.e. not a Goldwing)
-And, to keep this ramble from getting way too long, Japanese.
-Japanese because a) reliability, b) wider dealer networks and c) I would really like a LOCAL dealer (rules out everything non Japanese except KTM)

OK, so with that in mind, I have been shopping.  And although I said Japanese, I haven't ignored BMW, KTM, Guzzi, Aprilia or Triumph but they are on the back burner for the reasons stated.  Here is the odd thing I am finding, keeping in mind I can really get anything I want:  There isn't anything I want! 

Kawasaki Versys 1000 - sort of bland, bars seem too close, don't like the stock luggage.  Kind of a Mazda CX-5 when a Lexus RX is more what I am thinking. 
Suzuki vStrom 1000 - see Kawasaki above.  Its OK, but these are both pretty basic bikes, kind of the crank window and manual door locks version on a modern motorcycle
Kawasaki Councors 1400 - A gigantic pig.  And kind of outdated. 
Yamaha - Aha!  I am looking at Yamaha's and thinking I have found the holy grail.  That Super Tenere looks really  nice, and the FJR has had a stellar reputation in the sport touring circles for years. 
So I ride the Super T.  Nice bike - really nice.  But the throttle response (it has two modes) is really snatchy in sport (s) mode.  REALLY snatchy.  Like gave me whiplash snatchy, the worst I have ever experienced by far.  So I get on the forums and ask about it.  The just of it is, yes it is snatchy and there is not really a fix.  I was surprised at how many people said they just use the T mode (trail or touring?) to avoid the snatch.  In T mode the bike might have as much zip as my 650 vStrom, maybe.  It is a totally unacceptable situation IMO.  OK, the FJR.

The FJR is a pretty sweet bike.  One test ride and I am hooked.  Second test ride just to make sure, not.  I experienced head shake (tank slapper almost).  Dealer takes the bike out and agrees, yes it has a head shake.  I have ridden dozens of bikes and only once did I ever experience this (on a 1987 K100 that I sold because it had head shake that could not be fixed).  All my Guzzi's have been rock solid, especially my Lemans.  So, to the forums to see if this is a one off problem.  Nope.  Apparently all sorts of people have this issue with the much vaunted FJR.  A fix might be to installed tapered roller headset bearings.  Or not.  This is not an acceptable condition to me (I detest head shake!) and I go away from the Yamaha dealer feeling like Yamaha is a company that doesn't know how to build a motorcycle that works.  And this is a very unexpected feeling. 

So Honda.  Wow, I just can't see anything they make that is remotely interesting to me.  They have built a wall between me and their products, and it is one butt ugly wall!

So here I sit, wanting a nice shiny new motorcycle - literally anything I can dream of - and thinking that 650 vStrom has been a really nice little bike.  Why bother to replace it?  This was not the outcome I was expecting...

Hmmmm.  2up comfortable, light adventure and can go some distance, not heavy... GTS Vespa 300.   Won't do the ton but easily, comfortably goes pretty much anywhere you want it to.  Supremely reliable and solidly built.  Not very cheap but holds it value. 

Just an alternative you may not have considered.

[Lcarlson]

I know it's not Japanese, but have you considered any of the BMW R1200R variants? Both the cam heads and the newer liquid cooled models are very satisfying rides.

Second this -- seems like these would be obvious candidates.

[ChuckH]

I know it's not Japanese, but have you considered any of the BMW R1200R variants?...

 :1: on this one.  Two bikes ago I had an '09 650 Strom.  A very good bike for my touring needs, particularly after I went through the suspension on both ends, and dependable as a stone.  However, I wanted to try a Guzzi, so I bought a '12 Stelvio NTX.  Also, a very good bike but, as I age, it was getting a bit heavy for me to handle safely. 

So -- the Stelvio has been replaced by an '07 R1200R.  It came to me with some very nice add-ons; Ohlins shocks, rear mounts for the Trax cases (like the Stelvio uses), a couple of windshield options and a heated Russell seat.  It had seen 60K miles of roads but with some TLC through this past winter and it's ready to go. 

It's a legitimate 100# lighter than the Stelvio (the main reason for the change), handles like a sport bike with cases, easy to work on with the exception of the electronics and used parts/accessories are readily available.  The R Bikes could be used for two-up touring with a seat rebuild and an upgrade to the rear suspension.  The newer versions have more power, particularly with the water cooled engine, but more power is certainly not necessary for good road performance.   

   

[not-fishing]

No such motorcycle, probably never will be.

You can play golf with just a 7 iron but no one does.  They all have a big bag of clubs.

Don't get me started on my Fly Fishing Rods.

You just have to "go to the Darkside" and add to your stable or work on your Zen and accept what you cannot change.

[swmckinley54]

The 2 FJR'S I have had (one past, one present) have been rock solid. Agree with comments about tire choice, it is very important. Pirelli Angel GT's transformed the bike. The FJR burns the lowest octane gas, oil change in minutes and is the sweetest touring engine out there, liquid power on tap, very linear. Get above 7,000 rpm and it turns into a beast. 

[Sheepdog]

I like the FJR, too. Great features and good looks don't make up for the headshake, but if new tires or tapered roller steering head bearings are all it needs it may be worth the trouble. Also, I've read that if your lube the Super Tenere's throttle mechanism with the right grease (I believe MCN recommended some kind of telephoto lens grease) the snatchiness goes away. All bikes require a bit of fettering to get them right for you...

[alanp]

Thanks for the input on the FJR.  I think it is a great machine, but the head shake issue is quite scary to me, because I HATE HEAD SHAKE.  On the FJR forum, quite a few people admit to having it, but certainly not all.  I have only ridden one and it had it.  As I posted over there, in the last 30 years and probably 50 different motorcycles ridden (not all mine) I haven't experienced it on any other bike no matter what.  1 up, 2 up, luggage, no luggage, this tire that tire, fast, slow, you name it, no head shake.  I thought it was a thing of the past.  But the FJR folks talk about dialing I the suspension, buying new tires, setting the tire pressures just so, adjusting the head bearings ...  I don't want a bike that is that finicky.  I don't realize there even was a bike that was that finicky.  Anyway, if there was a way I could get an FJR that Had no head shake my decision would be made

[alanp]

Just curious but did you try the Honda Africa Twin or VFR1200X? 

Seems like the VFRX would be a good candidate.

I know of three FJR owners who were very happy with theirs once they changed tires.

Ok, wait.  VFR1200X.  Didn't realize it existed.  Supposed to appear in May, 2016 - which is quite soon!

Just read an Aussie review from 2014 (where I guess they got it first) and it sounds like a winner,  but so did the Yamaha Super T and FJR until I rode them.  Have to see one, and thanks. 

[alanp]

BMW R1200R is also going to get a closer look, but no nearby dealers.

[oldbike54]

 I had a dream about a Buick motorbike , wonderful thing , fast , light , good handling , stable , great fuel mileage , easy to service , comfortable , attractive . Talk about a lack of dealers though ...

 Dusty

[segesta]

For Japanese bikes, I can only go by what the magazines say--ironically, I have more Guzzi dealers within 50 miles than I do Big Four!
And they all love the Ninja 1000, with the optional bags. And its sister bike, the Versys 1000. And the Yamaha FJ-09.

[kirb]

Background- I was on an FJR for 6 years and loved it. The seat-peg relationship was starting to bug my knees. Bought a KTM 990 ADV and was sold on the ADV riding position. Sold the FJR and bought a Stelvio. Stelvio is my new touring rig and still rack up the miles.

Bikes I would consider (none sport-touring, sticking ADV)
Triumph Explorer- big and heavy. Nothing really stands out here other than it's a triple. Buddy has one, but is looking to move on. Does everything OK, nothing well.
Triumph 800- Nice mid-sized bike. Probably the best midsized ADV out there.
Yamaha Super T- Nice bike, people ride the crap out of them. Not overly exciting, oil filter sticking forward? really?
Honda VFR1200X- I would really look into this bike. Not so much AT it as INTO it... GREAT ENGINE in a package that finally suits it, more tour than ADV, DCT option, 127HP...new this year (here)
KTM- 1190, 1290, ADV and GT forms. This bike is a rocket on either flavor. All the pros and cons of KTM and chain drive, but you won't care. This will eat miles...quickly
Ducati Multistrada- They really got this bike right. It's pricey, but great to look at. Logs miles like crazy on the best engine Ducati made to date. It's crazy fast and comfortable. Not overly porky, either. I have a Diavel and would own a Multi if it were not for the duality of the Diavel engine/Stelvio usability in one bike. The service wasn't horrible as some claim (in my garage, with plenty of reading material and drinks).

The sport touring segment is starting to get loaded- FJR is nice, Connie is nice, Motus is spendy, Duc Multi crosses over, etc...

[Sheepdog]

Not sure about two-up, but the Honda VFR800 is one of the best all-around streetbikes from Japan. Supposedly, factory hard luggage is available and '14s and '15s are still around. This is one of the few Japanese bikes that truly interests me. It works well and has a great pedigree...

[airone]

I think a really good look at the R1200R plain Jane or Breva 1100 might fit the bill. Both bikes make a great platform for building a bike to fit you. So don't just buy it, make it!

[drlapo]

I don't know how well the FJ09 would fit the "two up" criteria. Don't know anything about the Tiger 800.

Power wise 2 up would be no problem.
Lots of luggage options for both
The pillion seats are broad and flat.
It all comes down to "fit"

[mjptexas]

Ducati Multistrada- They really got this bike right. It's pricey, but great to look at. Logs miles like crazy on the best engine Ducati made to date. It's crazy fast and comfortable. Not overly porky, either. I have a Diavel and would own a Multi if it were not for the duality of the Diavel engine/Stelvio usability in one bike. The service wasn't horrible as some claim (in my garage, with plenty of reading material and drinks).

What he said...

Modern Ducatis are in their own class.  Put a Scottoiler on it and Bob's your uncle.

[charlie b]

Ok, wait.  VFR1200X.  Didn't realize it existed.  Supposed to appear in May, 2016 - which is quite soon!

Just read an Aussie review from 2014 (where I guess they got it first) and it sounds like a winner,  but so did the Yamaha Super T and FJR until I rode them.  Have to see one, and thanks. 

Yep, I've been following them since the Crosstour came out overseas a few years ago.  I like the engine.  Would like to see what the windshield and such is like.

[swmckinley54]

I guess I should have mentioned in the above post that along with the FJR that I own I also have a KTM 1290 Super Adventure. That replaced the Stelvio that I put 50K miles on. It weighs in at 100 pounds lighter than the Stelvio. It has the most advance rider aids of any bike I have ever owned and they just flat work. At 5' 10" with a 30" inseam I can just about flat foot it, not only that I can wheel it around the garage without worrying about dropping it.

[jGuz]

I feel ya.  I want to like Japanese bikes, since they are of good value and are pretty reliable, but...they lack something.  I've owned one of each of the big 4 Japanese manufacturers and I've always wanted something else.  I had a Honda Blackbird once, and it was fast and never had any problems and it looked pretty good.  I now have a Norge.  Its electrical shenanigans drive me nuts, and it's not nearly as fast as the Blackbird, but it has that ... je ne sais quoi.       

I played the thought experiment of "If I had to own just one bike, what would it be?" and for my needs, I think the R1200RS would tick most of the boxes.  It's not too heavy, has decent wind protection, decent cases, shaft drive, heated grips, ABS, TC, and cruise control.  Perhaps that's worth checking out?

[Guzzistajohn]

FJ09 or Tiger 800

  tiger!

[alanp]

You know, it's odd.  If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels.  In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine.  It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes.  Not at all relaxing.  Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is.  So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800.  Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me).  It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them. 

[Red Dog]

Don't have the time to read thru all the posts so apologies if this has been offered.

I had owned nothing but Guzzi's for 40 years then I wanted something different & I wanted a local dealer so I ended up with a Victory.

I have a 2013 Cross Country Tour that I bought new less than 2 years ago, I have 35,000 miles on it & it is a low maintenance very dependable bike.  This thing reminds me a lot of a Guzzi in that they have their own "gotta get used to this" quirks, things that every new owner always asks about but are easily solved.

The handling on this 800lb cruiser is amazing and it does not feel heavy at all.  The storage capacity is huge & the saddle bags come off in less than a minute so they can be carried into a motel.  After break in MPG should be around 35 to 40 actual (not what the computer tells you which is high by 5 to 10).

Maintenance is an oil change, that's all.  Drive belts are lasting up to 80,000, tires are about 10,000 rear 20,000 front.

Did I mention handling?  I love messing with the young sport bike crowd it is so much fun & then when we meet up at a gas station down the road they all think I'm some great rider but really it's the bike.

I have spent 8 hours in the saddle with only gas stops & have been perfectly comfortable.

There are loads of goodies for them including some crazy performance stuff.

I think the 2016 Cross Country Tour sells for 21,000 new but a two year old one will go for 14,000 or under.

[twowings]

You know, it's odd.  If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels.  In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine.  It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes.  Not at all relaxing.  Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is.  So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800.  Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me).  It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them.

If it can carry GuzzistaJohn and his gear up and down the Ozark Mountains for hundreds of miles without grenading, it is a GOOD engine!!   

[oldbike54]

If it can carry GuzzistaJohn and his gear up and down the Ozark Mountains for hundreds of miles without grenading, it is a GOOD engine!!   

 Damn , that's brutal Chris  I've ridden the tigger in question , engine is powerful and willing .

 Dusty

[rocker59]

You know, it's odd.  If I had a nickel for every time I read how sweet that Triumph triple is, I could buy one with those nickels.  In 2012 I rode one, and it was a fine bike except that engine.  It just seemed like I would be frazzled riding that thing for more than 30 minutes.  Not at all relaxing.  Then I read a bunch more about what a great engine it is.  So I decided to wipe the slate clean and I rode a new Tiger 800.  Again, fine bike with an intolerable engine (to me).  It's just me though, I know they are good bikes and can understand how others could enjoy them.

Alan,

My Triumph experience is getting old, but I enjoyed the nature of the T300 series 885 triples, and the T500 series 955 triples.  I haven't ridden a 1050 or any of the small ones, 600/675/800.

I put 25000 miles on my 1998 Sprint Executive.  Great engine.  Nice Sport-Tourer.  Really should've kept that bike.  What little vibration it had was satisfying.  I owned it before my LD days, but did have a few 600 mile days on it.  It was torqey as Hell and had a wide powerband.

I rode several Girlie Tigers and 955 Daytonas.  I really loved the Tigers, and thought about buying one.  The Daytonas were strong, but I had the Sport 1100 and liked it better.  I didn't really like the bar/seat/peg relationship on the 955 Daytona, and the tank was kind of wide between the knees.

While I like twins better, generally speaking, the Early Triumph triples were good fun. 

The current big Triumphs just don't do anything for me.  I know the 675s are really nice, but I don't really like smaller displacement multis.

 

[Lcarlson]

Chain drive. Ugh (ducking).