What bike would you ride... Zen Route

[not-fishing]

I too have a problem with getting beaten about the head.  My Bell Bullitt solved some of the problem.  The rest of the problem was solved by me slowing down.  Sure it meant more saddle time but when you're bucking a 35 mph headwind on a 90 mile between gas stops road there ain't anyone who's going to care that your only doing 55.  on my Griso with a Dart Marlin

Mark

[Scud]

From my own garage, I would take my BMW K75s on that journey. It's got enough fairing to protect you, but it's also a surprisingly sporty ride - and it just works.

If I were shopping for a new bike to do the trip, I'd want something that was also dirt-worthy. I'd be tempted to get a new Honda Africa Twin or Husqvarna 701 Enduro - but that's me and I like hitting the dirt pretty hard.

If you just want to be able to explore some dirt roads and trails a KLR650 or Suzuki DR650 would work quite well - you can put bigger windscreens on those. There is a beautiful and elemental simplicity in a carbureted thumper.

[Yukonica]

  a new era V7? If you want nostalgia; chose one with spokes so you get to change the inner tube on a flat.
If you want Zen; consider you have to meditate for two minutes after flashing it up before you can ride away.
Interestingly, no one here (thus far) mentioned the V7 ... Maybe it is perceived as too small for touring. :)
I think OP has already made his choice... Beemer.

[Scud]

a new era V7? If you want nostalgia; chose one with spokes so you get to change the inner tube on a flat.
If you want Zen; consider you have to meditate for two minutes after flashing it up before you can ride away.
Interestingly, no one here (thus far) mentioned the V7 ... Maybe it is perceived as too small for touring. :)
I think OP has already made his choice... Beemer.

I like the V7 for this trip.    To suit the OP's needs, just pop on a windscreen and a set of bags. The K1600 Beemer... that's just not Zen... it isolates the rider from the experience. And what if you have to pick it up?

[oldbike54]

WACO UPF 7

:-)

 That has a certain logic 

 Dusty

[Bob Wegman]

There is little chance of me actually finishing reading that book. I have started it four times and always dnf.  I do have a 305 super hawk though so maybe I would have a better chance of doing the ride instead of the reading

[Triple Jim]

There is little chance of me actually finishing reading that book. I have started it four times and always dnf.

My method is to leave the book in my study room, also sometimes known as "the echo chamber."  I spend about ten minues in there each morning, so any book can eventually be finished.

[NC Steve]

BMW R1100 series, either RT or the naked R; I prefer the latter, with bags and windshield added. They have the power, braking, and tubeless wheels that most of the Airheads lacked, plus fiddle free fuel injection for altitudes. They are also the first Oilheads, and lack the electronics and complexity that began with the R1150 and newer series.

And, as mentioned before, the K75 bikes are legendary for their bulletproof reliability, and have been known to run hundreds of thousands of miles with little other than basic maintenance, tires, and brakes.  Boring yes, but the trip to me would be more about the being, and not just the ride.

[oldbike54]

 Let's clarify a couple of points . Mr OP , it seems that the mention of recreating Pirsig's route is a sidebar , and not the primary consideration in answering your question . Is this correct ? Are we asking a philosophical question , or a purely practical one . It seems in retrospect most of us are answering a philosophical query , and the real question is what motorcycle is best for touring in general , a completely different subject , although some motorcycling philosophy still comes into play . The real answer is whatever you are comfortable taking a trip on .

 Dusty

[Mr Pootle]

I too have a problem with getting beaten about the head.  My Bell Bullitt solved some of the problem.  The rest of the problem was solved by me slowing down.  Sure it meant more saddle time but when you're bucking a 35 mph headwind on a 90 mile between gas stops road there ain't anyone who's going to care that your only doing 55.  on my Griso with a Dart Marlin

Mark

I read the book way back, but can't remember much about it now. However, I doubt that Pirsig will have gone much over 50mph. At that speed, buffeting shouldn't be a problem unless you do hit high winds.

[Yukonica]

That has a certain logic 

 Dusty

I'd choose a DHC-2 Beaver (eh!). ~ had to look up the Waco reference.

[Huzo]

But wasn't the whole point about not trying to take something that is perfect, but about enjoying and appreciating the process of working the problem ? Am I seeing something that isn't there ? (It wouldn't be the first time).

[oldbike54]

But wasn't the whole point about not trying to take something that is perfect, but about enjoying and appreciating the process of working the problem ? Am I seeing something that isn't there ? (It wouldn't be the first time).

 Not exactly my take , but I can see how you arrived at that conclusion . Pirsig has been very reticent to discuss either of his books , honestly not sure he even really knows what they meant . I read somewhere that Chris (his son) was disappointed in the tone of the book , his memories were of just having a great time with his dad .

 Dusty

[drbone641]

Again, a helpful dialogue. The imperfection of the bike is a factor in choice. Probably why I am not looking at K BMW bikes any longer. R75s are a very strong possibility as are a couple of 850 Eldorados. The new California was the favorite, but reliability seems to be an issue. I think the Pirsig part of the trip is about 20% of the mileage, however it is the reason for the trip. My buddy and I are always discussing "what's next" and this trip is a transitional period (retirement) for him and a sort of throwback to that first weeklong trip on my 750k for me. I don't want to be miserable after 2 or 3000 miles, but I don't want to be the techno rider either with the eurotrash leathers. Character reliability and comfort are the big 3. I've ridden German, Japanese and Italian. Actually prefer the Italian, which is why I am looking at Guzzis and asking you guys for input. I am seriously enjoying the inputs. Thanks again.

[Huzo]

You're not just being a tease are you Boney ? You know, get us all excited and then leave us hanging ? You know what that leads to...! Honestly you won't go wrong no matter what you choose, it'll just be better/worse but in a different way. But I can tell you and so can anyone here that's done a bit, when you get REALLY OLD, it'll be what didn't go exactly right, that you'll be most likely to bring up when you're sipping your broth through a straw...Just go to a decent dealer and buy the second one you see, it'd be foolish to buy the first ! See here's the thing. I reckon, that the Zen thing ( if there is such a thing) is about changing yourself to adapt to your surrounds, not to manufacture your environment to suit you. Now of course you'll get what you think is best, but "best" isn't always....best. See there's no way a damn Moto Guzzi is the best bike on the road, but we're chatting on this forum because we've shelled out our hard earned on something when we know there's "better" out there to be gotten. So see what a bunch of crazies you're seeking advice from... Good fun though !

[Sasquatch Jim]

 My Rokon.  I would want to out crazy Persig.

[nick949]

The idea of buying a bike for a specific trip just seems wrong-headed to me, and probably decadent.

If I were doing the trip, I'd take my Eldorado, no question, no screen, and expect the fix a few things along the way.

Nick

[drbone641]

Huzo. No tease haha. I believe you are correct on what is memorable. Not looking for the "perfect" bike, for that one does not exist. I will know, when it appears, I think. Almost pulled the trigger on a Cali14, but something says no. I have enjoyed and appreciate the input. I will follow up as this develops so you can all tell me the error of my ways. 
Bone

[Nic in Western NYS]

OP prefers Italian, so I'll go with that.  From my memory of reading the book, I think a Mille GT 1000 would be about right.  Nothing with a dash that will go poof or electronics that can't be fixed through mechanical knowledge and brought-along tools.

Just so happens I saw this one...https://hickory.craigslist.org/mcy/5994459309.html

[wcguzzi]

I like the topic. Bikes have been acquired with far less justification than a trip. That said, the bike will hopefully outlast the trip - so keep that in mind. I chose a new Multistrada and am fitting a larger screen. If you like your 1100, I'd explore the aftermarket, including those clamp on adjustable spoilers. Not pretty, but neither the air-cooled Multi, nor a Victory is such a tremendous start point.

Never underestimate the importance of "pretty".  The "character" of the bike will last the three weeks of the trip - the pictures much longer. Buy pretty and make up "recoverable memories" over beer in the evening?  Seems like we're already enjoying your trip....

[guzzimatic]

The go to for me is the Convert! The magic carpet ride of motorcycles! With the Tonti frame and good tires will rail the corners with the best of them...

[Testarossa]

I'd take the 850T.  Built the year the book was published. The TR6R might look to be more in the spirit of the original trip but it's not as dependable as Pirsig's Honda.

BTW Pirsig was at the University of Chicago ten years ahead of my era (I graduated 1970). The people he wrote about were still around and I met some of them. Notably, Richard McKeon was chair of the committee on ideas and methods and a big shot in literary criticism. He retired in '74, the year Pirsig's book was published.

[Huzo]

Huzo. No tease haha. I believe you are correct on what is memorable. Not looking for the "perfect" bike, for that one does not exist. I will know, when it appears, I think. Almost pulled the trigger on a Cali14, but something says no. I have enjoyed and appreciate the input. I will follow up as this develops so you can all tell me the error of my ways. 
Bone

Now THAT is the last thing I'd do Boney. I would not presume to tell you the error of your ways, good on you for plotting such a thing.

[pete roper]

'Zen' be arsed! What does that mean apart from a bunch of navel-gazing, hippy-dippy bullshit.

If you want to ride across the USA you can do it on anything, the choice is yours. Something able to cruise at highway speed so you don't get run over is probably a plus!

I've undertaken several major tours of the US, all of them on very different bikes. The first in 2004 was on a 1980 V1000-I-Convert. I still own it although it hasn't turned a wheel in years. I picked it up in Detroit, rode up through Michigan then across the Mackinaw (?) bridge and then across and down to Atlanta before heading west to South Dakota for the National Rally that year. After that it was South and West through Utah, Arizona and California to Los Angeles. Trip of a lifetime and I made some good friends. All on an obsolete, automatic, shitheap with about 45HP on tap.

Next trip was on the 'Griso Pinko'. That was a West Coast trip I travelled from LA to Seattle, once again via the National in John Day in Oregon. Did most of it with Chuck from Indiana. That was a hoot, he was riding a Quota with a front wheel so bent it looked like he was riding a horse! Griso is heavy but well suspended and has about 100 ponies on tap.

Third one was a couple of years later on my Mana GT. Started in Florida and then up the eastern seaboard to Mass. Then back to DC before heading west again and once again travelling the wonders of author and Az before crossing the desert back to LA. Mana has about 65 horsies to play with and is, apart from its seat, about the 'Ultimate' light tourer.

Last trip was with Jude. We bought a Cali 1400 Touring in 2013. We got stuffed around but Piaggio USA despite having paid for the bike in full months before our trip. Ended up picking it up in Oklahoma rather than Texas but then rode the length of the Mississippi before hoping into Canada, heading east and crossing back into the US at Buffalo. Spent a few days in Ithaca where my daughter was studying at Cornell before drifting east and visiting Doug and Jaqui and Kev M, Jenn and their lovely daughter. After that? Off to visit the Hagans in VA! Once more trans-continental ending up in San Francisco before riding Big Sur and Hwy1 back down to LA. That was a fantastic three month oddesy and the biggest problem? The bike! The Cali is huge. It's also poorly designed for 'Touring', it's slow speed handling is abysmal, it doesn't have QD luggage, (You have no idea what a PITA that is on a three month trip!) it's grossly heavy and is, at least to me, utterly characterless. This may well explain why they are, for Guzzis, relatively popular. Cruise control was great though! I'll give it that! We really tried to like it but we kept thinking "Wish we were on the Mana!".

At the end of the day what bike you ride though is less important than the fact it's a bike and you can experience the fabulous beauty of the North American continent and the incredible hospitality and generosity of its people first hand. Even if it is your own country don't ever forget how very, very lucky you are. If you want to get some 'Zen' up you? Just ponder that for a bit!

Pete

[drbone641]

Well, Pete just helped make my 'No Cali' decision a final one.  Someone mentioned aftermarket screens for my Multi, I have 4 'deleted' screens for it in my garage already. There is no good one.

[johnr]

Let's clarify a couple of points . Mr OP , it seems that the mention of recreating Pirsig's route is a sidebar , and not the primary consideration in answering your question . Is this correct ? Are we asking a philosophical question , or a purely practical one . It seems in retrospect most of us are answering a philosophical query , and the real question is what motorcycle is best for touring in general , a completely different subject , although some motorcycling philosophy still comes into play . The real answer is whatever you are comfortable taking a trip on .

 Dusty

This.

[unclepete]

One thing I remember is that Robert Persig recognized two types of riders .
He was curious about things mechanical , and was happy to spend many hours servicing his own bike , was thoroughly familiar with it , and confident that whatever happened he could fix it himself .
In contrast , his friend on a portion of the trip , was mechanically inept , had all work to the bike done by " professionals " , and was therefore drawn toward what he perceived as the most reliable bike at the time , his BMW .
I would ride what I have , but I think I would not be tempted to follow someone else's route , especially from 40 years ago . The roads have changed .
I re-read the book just a couple of years ago ; could not get through it when it was first published .
Really thin on motorcycle maintenance and thick on defining "quality " .

[Muzz]

Well, if you do it on a G3L Matchless I can assure you that you would need to be well versed in the maintenance side. 4 chains with the primary and the generator chain running very close to each other.

[Huzo]

'Zen' be arsed! What does that mean apart from a bunch of navel-gazing, hippy-dippy bullshit.

If you want to ride across the USA you can do it on anything, the choice is yours. Something able to cruise at highway speed so you don't get run over is probably a plus!

I've undertaken several major tours of the US, all of them on very different bikes. The first in 2004 was on a 1980 V1000-I-Convert. I still own it although it hasn't turned a wheel in years. I picked it up in Detroit, rode up through Michigan then across the Mackinaw (?) bridge and then across and down to Atlanta before heading west to South Dakota for the National Rally that year. After that it was South and West through Utah, Arizona and California to Los Angeles. Trip of a lifetime and I made some good friends. All on an obsolete, automatic, shitheap with about 45HP on tap.

Next trip was on the 'Griso Pinko'. That was a West Coast trip I travelled from LA to Seattle, once again via the National in John Day in Oregon. Did most of it with Chuck from Indiana. That was a hoot, he was riding a Quota with a front wheel so bent it looked like he was riding a horse! Griso is heavy but well suspended and has about 100 ponies on tap.

Third one was a couple of years later on my Mana GT. Started in Florida and then up the eastern seaboard to Mass. Then back to DC before heading west again and once again travelling the wonders of author and Az before crossing the desert back to LA. Mana has about 65 horsies to play with and is, apart from its seat, about the 'Ultimate' light tourer.

Last trip was with Jude. We bought a Cali 1400 Touring in 2013. We got stuffed around but Piaggio USA despite having paid for the bike in full months before our trip. Ended up picking it up in Oklahoma rather than Texas but then rode the length of the Mississippi before hoping into Canada, heading east and crossing back into the US at Buffalo. Spent a few days in Ithaca where my daughter was studying at Cornell before drifting east and visiting Doug and Jaqui and Kev M, Jenn and their lovely daughter. After that? Off to visit the Hagans in VA! Once more trans-continental ending up in San Francisco before riding Big Sur and Hwy1 back down to LA. That was a fantastic three month oddesy and the biggest problem? The bike! The Cali is huge. It's also poorly designed for 'Touring', it's slow speed handling is abysmal, it doesn't have QD luggage, (You have no idea what a PITA that is on a three month trip!) it's grossly heavy and is, at least to me, utterly characterless. This may well explain why they are, for Guzzis, relatively popular. Cruise control was great though! I'll give it that! We really tried to like it but we kept thinking "Wish we were on the Mana!".

At the end of the day what bike you ride though is less important than the fact it's a bike and you can experience the fabulous beauty of the North American continent and the incredible hospitality and generosity of its people first hand. Even if it is your own country don't ever forget how very, very lucky you are. If you want to get some 'Zen' up you? Just ponder that for a bit!

Pete

Yes Pete, we both know that what you say is true, especially the last bit. But it's not really the stance you took when contemplating the "right" bike for you Oz lap. From the flavour of your post, you would have just jumped on the Griso and buggered off, or was the pillion comfort factor a major consideration. I reckon the Zen thing is a bunch of new age garbage too, but I use the popular terminology so I don't have to explain myself ad nauseum. Now Mr Bone, just buy that lovely Breva that's up for grabs, Beetle it if it hasn't been done, startus fix and check oil pressure switch connection and a P ROPER service, and forget about all the other "stuff", I'm sure there's enough valves in the head to do the job just fine.

[oldbike54]

 Plato was a hippy ? Damn , I learn something everyday 

 Dusty