R.I.P. Robert M. Pirsig

[Motormike]

Way better book IMO.

Concerning Zen, both books say the same things. Although, for those that don't want to over think it (Pirsig's "High country of the mind"), Zen in the Art of Archery is only 81 pages!

[JJ]

Tried - but never could get through it. Seemed, IMHO, mostly self-absorbed drivel, boring to the point of nausea.
Let the flames begin.   

But R.I.P. nonetheless.

First and foremost, R.I.P. Robert...and Godspeed...

However, I agree 100% with wrbix about "Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance."  It was a bad read overall...and I barely got through it without a headache at the end...

[oldbike54]

First and foremost, R.I.P. Robert...and Godspeed...

However, I agree 100% with wrbix about "Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance."  It was a bad read overall...and I barely got through it without a headache at the end...

 I disagree , it is a great read , it will tie your mind in knots at times , but untying those knots is part of the fun . Have probably given away ten copies and received very different reviews , five have been forever grateful , the other five have never forgiven me . It is a difficult read , and has very little to do with Zen or motorcycle maintenance , beyond the mindset involved in finding the path to either .

 "The only Zen you will find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you take up there" Kinda profound don't you think ?

 Dusty

 

[Blaufeld66]

Yes, guess what? That book IS zen...

[kirby1923]

 I didn't think Zen was a hard read however you need,(helps),to be in the right frame of mind,but then I like Homer which can be tedious.

:-)

[Motormike]

If someone thinks Pirsig's "Zen" is a hard read, then by all means stay clear of Melville's Moby Dick or Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.  Now those are hard reads! 

[mtiberio]

The philosophical essence of the book came down (for me) to the discussion of Quality. Quality which is good vs Quality which is a characteristic.

[Motormike]

As long as we are on the subject of famous (and deceased) writers, I'll add a bit of Guzzi content (convoluted as it may be).  I just finished "The Betrothed" by Alessandro Manzoni.  In the the book is a character with a name many of you will recognize:  Griso!  In the book, he is a thoroughly dislikable fellow.  A thug and henchman for his wealthy master, "the unnamed."  The story takes place in the 16th century around Milan and Lecco south of Lake Como.

[JJ]

I disagree , it is a great read , it will tie your mind in knots at times , but untying those knots is part of the fun . Have probably given away ten copies and received very different reviews , five have been forever grateful , the other five have never forgiven me . It is a difficult read , and has very little to do with Zen or motorcycle maintenance , beyond the mindset involved in finding the path to either .

 "The only Zen you will find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you take up there" Kinda profound don't you think ?

 Dusty

Fair enough...but these days, if I want a REAL "Zen-like-moment", I'll go for a hike around my neighborhood - in color or in black & white!

[oldbike54]

Fair enough...but these days, if I want a REAL "Zen-like-moment", I'll go for a hike around my neighborhood - in color or in black & white!

 Pirsig spoke to that , the quote about finding Zen was a direct reference to seeking out real experience IE riding a motorcycle exposed to the elements as opposed to sitting in a climate controlled car . He mentioned that he still smoked , and when people asked why he stated it was because he enjoyed smoking . Underlying the entire book is how having real experiences fraught with danger is the way to go .

 Dusty

[jrt]

As long as we are on the subject of famous (and deceased) writers, I'll add a bit of Guzzi content (convoluted as it may be).  I just finished "The Betrothed" by Alessandro Manzoni.  In the the book is a character with a name many of you will recognize:  Griso!  In the book, he is a thoroughly dislikable fellow.  A thug and henchman for his wealthy master, "the unnamed."  The story takes place in the 16th century around Milan and Lecco south of Lake Como.

I was under the impression that the (Moto Guzzi) Griso was named after this character. 
I've not read this book- I should pick it up.

And RIP Robert Pirsig.  I enjoyed Zen when I read it at 18 years old, living on my own in a tent, although I remember parts of it as being tedious.  I wonder how I would feel about it now. 

[80CX100]

The philosophical essence of the book came down (for me) to the discussion of Quality. Quality which is good vs Quality which is a characteristic.

That was the message that I took from the book; that everything could be described and quantified by one word, quality, mediocrity shouldn't be the goal in anything.

fwiw

Kelly

[JJ]

After reading some of these comments, I have decided to enter the VORTEX and hibernate for awhile...    

Happy (ZEN) Holidays to all!!

[Sheepdog]

A great treatise on self-awareness and personal excellence. Those damned dialectics ruin everything...find your own level of achievement!

[trippah]

It is an ancient cyclist, and he roadith one of three...by thy long grey beard and glittering eye wherefor thou stoppith thou me.

The trooper there then staid his hand..his hand then droppith he.  The cyclist then snapped his red suspenders and o his journey continued he.

[oldbike54]

 Interestingly enough , Pirsig himself stated years later he wasn't really sure what the book was really all about . Maybe like so many books or Beatles songs , it can mean many things , dunno .

 Dusty

[JJ]

Interestingly enough , Pirsig himself stated years later he wasn't really sure what the book was really all about . Maybe like so many books or Beatles songs , it can mean many things , dunno .

 Dusty

The title is an apparent play on the title of the 1948 book Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugen Herrigel. In its introduction, Pirsig explains that, despite its title, "it should in no way be associated with that great body of factual information relating to orthodox Zen Buddhist practice. It's not very factual on motorcycles, either."

Pirsig received a remarkable 126 rejections before an editor finally accepted it for publication--and he did so thinking it would never make a bit of profit. Then it was on best-selling lists for decades. Initially, the book sold at least 5 million copies worldwide.[2]