Author Topic: Why push button start NGC car?  (Read 17424 times)

Offline Kev m

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2018, 01:23:02 PM »
Would seem to me that the stop - start technology would cause premature wear on the starter and related items.
GliderJohn
I've only looked at a couple, but at least some use beefed up starter and charging systems.

The new Wrangler will have a 300 HP turbo 4-cyl option they call a mild hybrid as it uses a large combination starter/alternator assembly for the stop/start function.
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Offline pat80flh

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2018, 01:34:50 PM »
For the record, GM start/stop uses a heavy duty alternator, with a serpentine belt dual action self adjuster. When restarting, the generator/starter is spun up, rotating the engine via the belt. There is an external trans fluid pump to keep the clutches engaged, and an extra AGM battery in the trunk to keep the electrics alive .
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2018, 01:39:38 PM »
You can buy a mint automobile from every decade of the 20th century, each costing less than a new super-zoot car does today.    If you like a car with the start button in the floor and a flathead six that you can repair with a spoon and an old emery board, you can get one of them.   If you like air-conditioning but no other amenity, you can get that.   If you like carburetors but not fuel injection, you have a huge choice of cars.   If you like a 1950's Ford but want a shoulder harness, you can easily retrofit that.

 :thumb:

I just bought a very nice '89 Mercedes 190E 2.6 with 78k miles on it for the princely sum of $2500. It has a few things for me to fix, but much less than the '91 Jetta, and all minor. It is the most technically advanced car I've ever owned - there's an air bag and anti-lock brakes - but it's still very "old school" in many respects. I would have liked a 5 spd., but they're very rare. All of them had power windows, central locking and climate control - more stuff I could do without.

Just ordered a set of original style wheels and tires to replace the multi-colored, oversized AMG wheels and 40 series tires that are presently on it.



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Offline ChuckH

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2018, 01:40:23 PM »
Would seem to me that the stop - start technology would cause premature wear on the starter and related items.    GliderJohn   

I was on a business trip into Switzerland in the 90's.  Made a lot of trips over there then.  We went to lunch in my contact's private vehicle.  The engine turned off at every stop light in the city.  He said it was the law -- the car must shut off to reduce the emissions in the city.
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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2018, 01:40:23 PM »

Offline ChuckH

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2018, 01:46:03 PM »
No more messed up ignitions switches. Also makes it harder to steal. 

This makes a lot of sense.  Management said, "We have a major problem with drivers hanging great weights on the ignition keys.  We need to fix it."  Engineers said, "It's easy boss.  Eliminate the keys".
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Offline screamday

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2018, 02:01:09 PM »
Here's the good thing for folks with these concerns.

MOST people in the country don't care about these things, and just blindly accept every "new thing" that someone thinks up, and they think it has to be that way, even if it moves them farther from control of the car, or makes it possible for whoever is monitoring and controlling the car to do anything they want to/with you AND makes it less and less possible for anyone to even understand their car, much less work on it.   That's fine for most people - they don't care and will buy whatever's new, at whatever price.

However, since hundreds of millions of automobiles have been produced over the years, no matter WHAT era you like, no matter WHAT features you like or don't like, there is a very nice car out there for you that, if maintained and cared for, will last most of us the rest of our lives.

You can buy a mint automobile from every decade of the 20th century, each costing less than a new super-zoot car does today.    If you like a car with the start button in the floor and a flathead six that you can repair with a spoon and an old emery board, you can get one of them.   If you like air-conditioning but no other amenity, you can get that.   If you like carburetors but not fuel injection, you have a huge choice of cars.   If you like a 1950's Ford but want a shoulder harness, you can easily retrofit that.

And even in this over-regulated world we live in, you can still drive original cars with ZERO safety features on the road legally.   Matter of fact, you can drive them cheaper than a new car.    If it didn't have a piece of equipment on it when it was sold, then it isn't required to be inspected for it.   I don't see that changing.

So I'm really not concerned, personally, with Big Brother cars, unfixable technology, or a car that tries to wipe my arse for me.   I just won't ever own one, and I'll continue to drive anywhere I want, in the kind of car I want.

You can too!

Lannis

Thanks Lannis.....I didn't realize that. I'll print this out and keep it with me for the next time I'm in the market for another car.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2018, 02:16:55 PM »
Thanks Lannis.....I didn't realize that. I'll print this out and keep it with me for the next time I'm in the market for another car.

Glad to be of service!   Next up - "How to drive without a GPS without dying horribly and instantly" ....

Lannis
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2018, 03:34:37 PM »
EZ-GO golf carts with gas engines have used start-stop technology for years. It works, I guess; though it’s irritating. Neither my wife’s ‘14 Honda nor my ‘15 Toyota use this feature, thank goodness. As stated earlier, all the spurious (as well as a few legitimate...) lawsuits aimed at Toyota and Chevrolet brought on the pushbutton starting. It seems that we reap what we sew...none of the accusations against Toyota were even corroborated.
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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2018, 03:57:16 PM »
Here's the good thing for folks with these concerns.

MOST people in the country don't care about these things, and just blindly accept every "new thing" that someone thinks up, and they think it has to be that way, even if it moves them farther from control of the car, or makes it possible for whoever is monitoring and controlling the car to do anything they want to/with you AND makes it less and less possible for anyone to even understand their car, much less work on it.   That's fine for most people - they don't care and will buy whatever's new, at whatever price.

However, since hundreds of millions of automobiles have been produced over the years, no matter WHAT era you like, no matter WHAT features you like or don't like, there is a very nice car out there for you that, if maintained and cared for, will last most of us the rest of our lives.

You can buy a mint automobile from every decade of the 20th century, each costing less than a new super-zoot car does today.    If you like a car with the start button in the floor and a flathead six that you can repair with a spoon and an old emery board, you can get one of them.   If you like air-conditioning but no other amenity, you can get that.   If you like carburetors but not fuel injection, you have a huge choice of cars.   If you like a 1950's Ford but want a shoulder harness, you can easily retrofit that.

And even in this over-regulated world we live in, you can still drive original cars with ZERO safety features on the road legally.   Matter of fact, you can drive them cheaper than a new car.    If it didn't have a piece of equipment on it when it was sold, then it isn't required to be inspected for it.   I don't see that changing.

So I'm really not concerned, personally, with Big Brother cars, unfixable technology, or a car that tries to wipe my arse for me.   I just won't ever own one, and I'll continue to drive anywhere I want, in the kind of car I want.

You can too!

Lannis

     :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Offline jas67

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2018, 05:48:16 PM »
One tangentially related note to the OP: I believe your 2016 Mazda 3 Sport has GPS, whether you know or not.  All it needs is the SD data card to work.  If it's not already been turned on, buy the latest SD card on E-Bay for $80, stick it in the slot and you'll have working GPS.  Or pay the dealer $400 plus an hour of labor do the same thing,,,

Oh!   Does anyone know if VW does anything like this?    My 2015 Golf Sportwagon is SE trim and has no nav.   SEL came with nav.
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Offline jas67

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2018, 06:13:44 PM »
Glad to be of service!   Next up - "How to drive without a GPS without dying horribly and instantly" ....

Lannis

I have no problem driving without GPS, but, GPS WITH traffic is a game changer for me.   I really enjoy being able to know if there are any major stoppages or congestion ahead on my intended route so I can alter course soon enough to completely avoid it.    Life is way to short to waste time sitting in traffic.
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Offline screamday

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2018, 09:34:32 AM »
Glad to be of service!   Next up - "How to drive without a GPS without dying horribly and instantly" ....

Lannis

 :laugh: :laugh:

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Offline Lannis

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2018, 09:43:58 AM »
I have no problem driving without GPS, but, GPS WITH traffic is a game changer for me.   I really enjoy being able to know if there are any major stoppages or congestion ahead on my intended route so I can alter course soon enough to completely avoid it.    Life is way to short to waste time sitting in traffic.

That would mainly be a problem on interstate highways where, once on, you can't get off.   Since I absolutely minimize the time I spend on interstates, the chances that a device would help me there would be remote .... !    Another way to think about it - "Life is way too short to waste time droning down an interstate highway ...." !

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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2018, 10:09:40 AM »
After years of bopping through the woods with an orienteering compass, topo maps, and Ranger beads, I like GPS very much. I can always resort to the old way if need-be, but life is too short to try to read the minuscule fonts on a road atlas. I keep one at home for planning...where I have a lighted magnifying glass handy.

As for interstate highways...I find that they are excellent for linking the really interesting parts of a trip.
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Offline blackcat

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2018, 10:21:03 AM »
"And even in this over-regulated world we live in, you can still drive original cars with ZERO safety features on the road legally"

I use my 70 el Camino for bringing home large bulky items but not much else.  It uses an untold amount of gas, belch's fumes and it runs perfectly fine, doesn't need an ignition key because the tumblers must be gone and is way more dangerous to both the occupants and the car it would impact in a collision.
Thank god it doesn't have a starter button.

PS. We have a Toyota that has a starter button and the fob contains a real key for the door and the fob can be used as a key for the ignition, but you still have to press the button. If my memory is correct, my father had a 55 Ford flatbed truck that had a button start too, but you had to turn a key first then hit the button.
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Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2018, 11:14:43 AM »
 Engineers often build things that are not needed until they invent a need for them.
 That sounds to me like what is going on now.  Just to raise the build price of the vehicle.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2018, 12:38:30 PM »
I'm not too concerned with start/stop tech. Prius has been doing it forever, and they are rated as "most reliable" cars.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2018, 01:26:35 PM »
As we all sit here reading and responding on our over regulated un-needed computers. We should all be writing one another letters on vellum with quill pens.

No "absolutism", now; it's become the bane of civilized public discourse.   "Well, if you want X, you must want 1,000,000X!   What a b@stard!"   :wink:

I get it a lot, as you might imagine.   If you don't use the very latest in technology, which comes with a downside as well as upside, and you say so, you hear (over and over) "Well, I guess you want to sit in a cave and knap flints and make bone spears, then, too, huh?".

No, of course not.    :cool:

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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2018, 02:44:15 PM »

Sounds like a design flaw. All the ones we owned won't let you lock it unless you've got the key and do something like touch the button on the car door.
I did not lock it. Not sure I could. But I was a long way away from the owner with the fob, and no good way to get back to the drop off point. The car should have beeped constantly or something to let me know that the fob was out of range.

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Offline Kev m

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2018, 03:06:42 PM »
I did not lock it. Not sure I could. But I was a long way away from the owner with the fob, and no good way to get back to the drop off point. The car should have beeped constantly or something to let me know that the fob was out of range.

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Oh, that too, I believe all of ours beep at you if the key leaves the car, and maybe illuminate the key light too.
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Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2018, 03:24:15 PM »
I did not lock it. Not sure I could. But I was a long way away from the owner with the fob, and no good way to get back to the drop off point. The car should have beeped constantly or something to let me know that the fob was out of range.

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And no, I don’t carry a house key either.  :thumb:

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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2018, 04:28:58 PM »
You know it's winter when a starter button discussion goes three pages . . . .   :boozing:

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2018, 04:44:47 PM »
You know it's winter when a starter button discussion goes three pages . . . .   :boozing:

 That was your first clue ? :shocked:

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Offline sidecarnutz

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2018, 05:24:13 PM »
My daily driver is a 2014 Promaster hi top van. Designed by FIAT and has much in common with a Guzzi. Love the four wheel Brembo disk brakes for instance. Though it may have a USA type motor, V6 gas vice the diesel  they use in Europe, It IS very Italian in that it refuses to be hurried. Press a button on the FOB to unlock the front doors and then the you hear  the solenoid and the cars lights flash. I you don't wait for the lights to stop flashing before hitting the next unlock button, the car panics and the lights flash in a frenzy and it yells "Domanai! Domanai! Tomorrow, tomorrow!" at you. If you take your time and let the light show stop and THEN press the next unlock button it works fine and you'll hear the other solenoid fire to unlock the cargo hatches. Get in a REAL hurry and press the unlock buttons like a ugly American tourist and you're rewarded by the Canbus system shutting down the van for a while. Union rules, I suppose.

I love the van and it has been quite reliable for the 2 1/1 years I've had it. Super practical too. If VW had kept building vans for the USA that were powerful and reliable and inexpensive instead of artsy fartsy green, expensive and unreliable, this would have been it. But it does have some idiosyncrasies to deal with. Thankfully my decades of experience with Guzzi's has made me up to that challenge! 
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Offline Tusayan

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2018, 09:07:00 PM »
As we all sit here reading and responding on our over regulated un-needed computers. We should all be writing one another letters on vellum with quill pens.

I think we should all do whatever the hell we want  :grin:

For me, late 20th century electronic communication is great - how else in 2018 could I buy ultra clean, low mileage 1990s and earlier motorcycles to keep me going for the rest of my life?  Number 10 coming up Saturday, a '99 Ducati with a real key, no RFID BS going along with it, no Bosch ABS and no Euro anti theft immobilizer crappola either...  Job one after flying to get it without radio use, 1920s style (a friend will fly the 50 year old plane home) and then riding it 400 miles home that afternoon will be to remove the locking gas cap.  Can't stand the things, they were introduced in the late 70s so with gas caps I prefer 1960s technology, no key, no nothing.

I feel free to pick and choose what works and is best...  for me, with my money, cash payment, $100 bills... which is also very old technology that serves me:  I generally buy out of state and with cash payment the amount of the sale is untraceable. Great technology, which serves me.  If you want me to get get swept up in useless and self serving manufacturer and government promoted nonsense, you're going to be waiting. A very long time  :wink:

« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 09:55:56 AM by Tusayan »

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2018, 09:26:03 PM »
Here's the good thing for folks with these concerns.

MOST people in the country don't care about these things, and just blindly accept every "new thing" that someone thinks up, and they think it has to be that way, even if it moves them farther from control of the car, or makes it possible for whoever is monitoring and controlling the car to do anything they want to/with you AND makes it less and less possible for anyone to even understand their car, much less work on it.   That's fine for most people - they don't care and will buy whatever's new, at whatever price.

However, since hundreds of millions of automobiles have been produced over the years, no matter WHAT era you like, no matter WHAT features you like or don't like, there is a very nice car out there for you that, if maintained and cared for, will last most of us the rest of our lives.

You can buy a mint automobile from every decade of the 20th century, each costing less than a new super-zoot car does today.    If you like a car with the start button in the floor and a flathead six that you can repair with a spoon and an old emery board, you can get one of them.   If you like air-conditioning but no other amenity, you can get that.   If you like carburetors but not fuel injection, you have a huge choice of cars.   If you like a 1950's Ford but want a shoulder harness, you can easily retrofit that.

And even in this over-regulated world we live in, you can still drive original cars with ZERO safety features on the road legally.   Matter of fact, you can drive them cheaper than a new car.    If it didn't have a piece of equipment on it when it was sold, then it isn't required to be inspected for it.   I don't see that changing.

So I'm really not concerned, personally, with Big Brother cars, unfixable technology, or a car that tries to wipe my arse for me.   I just won't ever own one, and I'll continue to drive anywhere I want, in the kind of car I want.

You can too!

Lannis

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Offline steamdriven NZ

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2018, 05:44:01 AM »
Why would you buy a car with pushbutton start if you hate it so much? 

My Mustang has push button start, and touch access to the interior.  It works fine.  No fumbling with keys.  It is superior to keyed start in my opinion.

And yes, you should have two fobs, if you don't go to the dealer and buy one.  And yes, it is expensive.  Please refer to my first comment LOL.


Offline HDGoose

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Re: Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2018, 05:57:25 AM »
Since the writing is on the wall I took the plunge about a week ago and bought a 2015 Nissan Altima. Everything is tied into one electronic system and has the push button start/stop. We will see. I still remember all the hand wringing and dire predictions when cars started getting electronic ignition. Time will tell.
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Offline rss29

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Why push button start NGC car?
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2018, 07:05:21 AM »
I have no problem driving without GPS, but, GPS WITH traffic is a game changer for me.   I really enjoy being able to know if there are any major stoppages or congestion ahead on my intended route so I can alter course soon enough to completely avoid it.    Life is way to short to waste time sitting in traffic.
Same here. I drive the same 30 mile route to work every day so I pretty much have it down without needing a map. But I still use nav to watch for traffic tie ups. When I hit a traffic jam I scroll ahead to see if it’s just red or if there is a crash. If there’s a crash I turn off or u-turn before the other drivers figure out we are going to be stuck there a while. I have 4 different navs in my truck- OEM with Sirius Traffic, Apple via CarPlay, Google and Waze via Android Auto. Waze has the best traffic info but Google’s map quality is much better, even though they’re the same company. If I just need directions I prefer the OEM nav.

Not sure if your VW has easily activated Nav or not, but I’m guessing not. I had an A3 loaner the other day when my wife’s car was in for service. It had the Nav button and screen, but no Nav software. That would drive me crazy. I don’t mind not having the feature but they are just taunting me by having that button there. Reminds me of the 1989 Dodge Colt I had with a snowflake button but no a/c. I used to press that non-functioning button all the time imagining how great it would be to own a car with a/c.

The thing that drives me nuts most about the truck I bought last year is no push button start. My last 4 vehicles have had it and it’s a great feature. I have never had a problem with a dead battery or being stranded. All of the systems I have owned have some sort of passive failsafe if the fob battery dies.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:14:18 AM by rss29 »

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