1100 sporti charging

[bigpants]

I'm just heading out to wire it up. But there's something confusing me , if the black and the red wires from the reg are wired straight to the battery positive then does the reg not just read it's own output , I know I'm missing some piece of logic here , just wondered if someone could explain it to me.

[bigpants]

Ok that didn't go well. Before fitting I did a short circuit test of the old and regs . The resistance between black wire and earth was some Mohm on the old one and 0.43ohm on the new. As soon as the wire touched the battery there was a big spark and now the new reg reads Mohms so I guess it's blown. I double checked all wires before fitting and ran two earths. Bugger.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If the black wire to case was only .43 Ohms it obviously wasn't the Voltage reference, it was probably a separate ground wire.

You never did give us the model so I assumed it must be https://www.mvh-shop.de/regulator/rectifier-DC-003

Alternator regulator / rectifier DC-003
The alternator regulator DC-003 with integrated rectifier is new and in good quality from the accessories. The regulator / rectifier replaced in functionality and performance of the OEM part.

You were asked to confirm that.

I think you'd better find out what regulators the other English Guzzi owners are using and get one of those.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'm just heading out to wire it up. But there's something confusing me , if the black and the red wires from the reg are wired straight to the battery positive then does the reg not just read it's own output , I know I'm missing some piece of logic here , just wondered if someone could explain it to me.

Yes it does but the output is clamped by the battery, this is similar to all the direct connect regulators also.
Once the original Ducatti Energiser sees 13.8 Volts it stops connecting the alternator to the battery, It does this internally via the controlled rectifiers.
I can't speak for your German regulator because i have no information on it.

Other regulators short the alternator out when the battery Voltage reaches it's set-point.

[hauto]

Seems to be a lot electrical experience going on in this thread,so I'll throw out to you guys.
I put two LED bulbs in my new dual head light setup.Everything seemed fine till my charging meter was showing over charging and test meter showed the same condition. My quota was a singe bulb setup prior to this conversion.The over charging was kind of intermittent.Did some reading on the internet about a headlight relay conversion.I had a spare regulator,so I put just one halogen bulb in and the spare regulator.All seems fine now. I have a trip coming up next week and will leave it as is since it never gave me any problems before.The question is,did the dual LED bulbs  cause this issue or was it just coincidence that the regulator acted up.Will this relay conversion work,I do want to try to go back to dual LED bulbs after the trip,but also don't want to damage the regulator.

[bigpants]

Sorry Roy , yes the reg was a dc-003 from mvh in Germany. After blowing this one I disconnected the red and black wires from the battery and ran the bike just to check it. And the red is showing a dc output now - unfortunately it's 25v !

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thanks for verifying the model, it's supposed to be a functional copy of the OEM Ducati Energia so the black wire of the black/white pair is the Voltage Reference not a ground, it's normally connected to battery Positive only through the headlight relay.
Don't be misled by the red wire Voltage when it's not connected to the battery, the Voltage is not regulated that way

I can really only speak for the Ducati Energia, it works like this
The Voltage reference is compared to a setpoint of 13.8 Volts
If its less than 13.8 the controlled rectifier is turned on and every bit of current and Voltage the alternator can muster up is sent to the battery. Batteries being very low resistance clamp the voltage down but I suspect the current might spike to 40 Amps. The current flows until the end of the alternator half cycle.
(BTW I suspect this high current is what often cooks the 30 Amp fuse contacts)
Next half cycle the Voltage may be greater than 13.8 so the regulator doesn't turn on the controlled rectifier so no current flows to the battery and the alternator windings probably spike over 90 Volts

Try connecting the red wire to the battery, what happens?
Connect and disconnect the reference wire, what happens?

[bigpants]

Cheers Roy , I'll go wire that up now , I'll start with just the red wire and then both red and black. For what it's worth I seem to remember that when I last set it all up in this hot wired method a few months back it melted all the wires leading to the ignition barrel.

[bigpants]

Ooh it's looking good. With just the red wire attached at tickover I've got 13.5v across the battery (12.99v with engine not running). I've not been brave enough to connect the black reference one yet.

[Kiwi_Roy]

An OEM Ducatti Energia would not charge with the black wire off
Perhaps your new DC-003 is a direct connect regulator that doesn't need a reference.
A direct connect regulator senses the Voltage inside off the red wire and I suspect their Voltage shows high when not connected to the battery.

The black wire might well be a ground if they miss read the OEM design.
I wish we had better information on the type.



Good Luck

[bigpants]

I don't know if this helps but I seem to remember that they used the same part for ducati monsters so could cross reference with a monster diagram but also Roy I've got a spare I could send u ? I'm gonna check the dc output over a greater rev range incase it increases too much , is about 14.5v the limit ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I don't know if this helps but I seem to remember that they used the same part for ducati monsters so could cross reference with a monster diagram but also Roy I've got a spare I could send u ? I'm gonna check the dc output over a greater rev range incase it increases too much , is about 14.5v the limit ?

Thats brilliant, I couldn't find a schematic but I did find a troubleshooting forum where they referred to 14 Volts between red and black, that's totally different from the Ducatti Energia not functionally identical as claimed.
Anything from 13.5 to 14.5 would be great.

You could try connecting the black to ground but i would try by just brushing it on at first to get a feel for how much current is passing.

If you bought the regulator from a dealer I would demand a diagram, it should never be sold for a Guzzi without one. if ever you find one I would appreciate a copy.

Please report back in a few days once you have a feel for how it's going to work

Good Luck
Roy

[bigpants]

I've done a few rides on the bike now and battery voltage is stable at around 13.3v and charging voltage at around 14.5v throughout the Rev range. I've now got the red wire from reg wired into the correct loom connection rather than straight to the battery to see if that leaks any power away when not being used. I can test earthing the black wire today. If I first try brushing it with ignition switched on but engine off should there be any current / sparking ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

The Voltage is perfect. Being black I'm sure its a ground.

Back when I first started with my Greeney I noticed it's regulator was bolted poorly to the horn bracket Aluminium to steel in a wet environment which in turn was bolted to the chassis, the only real ground was the black wire all the way back to the battery. None of the bolts were prepared properly to act as a permanent ground. Obviously after a few years the connections corrode and then its up to the long black wire which has too much resistance so I started to preach add a ground wire to the engine 6" away. The engine back to battery is essentially zero Ohms.
Several VIIs I know of have almost fried because their main ground connection has worked loose throwing all the starter return current through that small black wire.
BTW, don't disconnect the black wire it serves another purpose.

The company in Germany deserve a rocket i'm sure you aren't the first owner to tear his hair out over the regulator wiring, they bundle the black and white wires together so the natural thing to do is plug it in just the same as the OEM Ducati Energia and let out some magic smoke. They don't understand our Guzzis.

If it goes anywhere I think the black wire should go to a timing cover bolt but please do it carefully I would hate you to upset the regulator because I am missing something, just brush it onto a bolt quickly otherwise tape it up and forget about it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I fired off a message to MVH asking for the connection diagram, I would really like to get to the bottom of this.
Unfortunately it's a German site so they probably ignored my request in English.

You said back a ways that the black wire was 0.4 Ohms to the case before you connected it, perhaps it blew off internally.
At the very least it would normally cause the headlight fuse to blow.

If there's any German speakers out there could you do me a favour and ask for a datasheet/connection diagram
info@MVH-online.de  Regulator/rectifier DC-003

https://www.mvh-shop.de/regulator/rectifier-DC-003

[bigpants]

Hi Roy , sorry for the (now familiar) delay in completing the tests. It's been an absolute joy to be riding the bike again and I've been too scared to touch anything lest I break it again and cant get to work. But a few weeks of fun has given me the confidence to complete my task. So , it stands at red from reg plugged into loom and black and white wires unplugged. 14v+ output. All is well. With engine running I brushed black (from reg) to earth and no drama so I earthed it properly and as far as I can tell it makes bugger all difference to anything , reg is well earthed 3 other ways ! Thought I'd broken it though as no voltage output from reg red when it was disconnected from loom , 14v only flows when red is connected. So do you think I should earth the regs black wire permenantly ? And what to do with the white one ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

That's great news, worth waiting for

With the key On try touching the male bullet connector of the pair that the Energia's Black/White used to plug into to ground It just has the charge light current (about 100 milliamps) When you are short it to ground, it should make the charge lamp glow.
If that goes as it's supposed to then try touching the regulator's white wire to the male pin, again the lamp should light if the key is On
If that happens then see if it goes out with the engine running.

If Not then just tape it up
I would just tape the black up, it sounds as though you have good grounds to the case. The main diodes will be attached to the inside.

As for the female Red/Black of the pair don't use that unless it's to power up an accessory.

I'm convinced the regulator is a direct connect type, all I would suggest you disconnect the battery when you park the bike for the winter as they do draw a tiny load that will bring the battery down over several months.