Gear Change feels like its getting harder and "clunkier" - Breva 1200 2 Valve

[donp71]

Hi all,

I have owned my 2008 Breva 1200 2 valve now for around 12 months, and overall i really like the bike, after making a few small tweaks more for ergonomics and looks side of things than anything else. So far 1200 Sport bar mounts, Mana bars, 1200 Sport Bikini Fairing and 1200 Sport seat/seat cowl. Have had the bikes 20,000 k service, all running well overall. Bike has around 25,000 km now. Absolutely love this bike, and I've owned a few different Jap/Euro bikes over the years.

Over the last month or two (and this could well just be an overactive imagination or overthinking things) I've noticed the gear change feels a bit clunkier and harder to change. Clutch seems to engage ok .
As a result of this perceived increased clunkiness/slowness and as it needed doing anyway, I have bled the clutch and also replaced the master cylinder cap. Small improvement but much the same.

No major concern, and as i say may just be my imagination and getting used to the bike, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts please?
Thanks
Don

[pete roper]

Check/change the gearbox oil. It may be under filled.

[donp71]

Check/change the gearbox oil. It may be under filled.

Thanks Pete, will check and replace the gearbox oil. Do you have preference for gearbox oil that you use please?
Cheers
Don

[Kiwi Dave]

Perhaps the bushes on the reaction rod are getting a little bit shagged.  Grab the reaction rod and try to twist it.  There should little or no movement.

[pete roper]

Any full synthetic 75/90, 80/90 or straight 90wt will be just fine. The reason I suggest it is because there are frequent misunderstandings about quantity due to the way Guzzi describe the gearbox and final drive and quite often shops that are unfamiliar with the bikes seem to put the quantity of oil that is supposed to go into the bevelbox into the gearbox.

While this mistake baffles me I know it happens. The correct quantity for your gearbox is half a litre but you can simply add it to the level of the fill plug with the bike upright which is slightly over half a litre with no harm occurring.

Pete

[donp71]

Perhaps the bushes on the reaction rod are getting a little bit shagged.  Grab the reaction rod and try to twist it.  There should little or no movement.

Thanks Kiwi Dave will check it out.

[pete roper]

Reaction rod bushes wouldn't make the gear change stiffer but will make it 'Clunkier'. Also on that score make sure there is minimal play in the throttle cables. This also has a profound effect on the clunkiness of the change. Tri increasing the clutch lever span as well.

[Huzo]

I replaced the front bush in my '07 Norge with a rubber one. As Pete said clearly it'll have no effect on the shifting, but does soften the slight "snatchiness" present if you're not smooth on/off the throttle (as you should be). For the record I use Motul 80/90 with Molycote, and after 110,000 k the gearbox is like butter, (smooth not yellow). Interestingly though, if I give mine a bit of a "crank" in the lower gears, the next shift can be a bit clacky, you can sorta feel it when it's gunna do it, and a flick on the clutch lever stops it.

[ITSec]

As others have said, unless there's a specific problem or symptom, the first thing to do is change the fluid. Having the right level of fluid is critical to the transmission's smoothness, and using a quality oil helps too. Similar to Pete's comments, I like synthetic - my favorite is Mobil1 75w90, which can be used in both the transmission and the CARC (suitable and certified for both applications, i.e., straight and bevel gears). It comes out just about exactly the same color it goes in, so there's no visible sign of breakdown - and a lab test I had done showed minimal/no breakdown at 10,000+ miles (I had a long trip and didn't want to change it halfway).

[tris]

Have you by any chance reduced the span on the clutch lever?

When I did it felt like the clutch wasn't fully disengaging giving a crunch.
Going back to full span stopped that however that might a disguise for a worn push rod

[donp71]

Have you by any chance reduced the span on the clutch lever?

When I did it felt like the clutch wasn't fully disengaging giving a crunch.
Going back to full span stopped that however that might a disguise for a worn push rod

Hi Tris,

I will move it back out to furthest setting, i have it one in from there, I think maybe 3, rather than 4 on the wheel. Thanks for the suggestion. Always found it engages a long way out, but have just gotten used to it.
Cheers
Don

[donp71]

Any full synthetic 75/90, 80/90 or straight 90wt will be just fine. The reason I suggest it is because there are frequent misunderstandings about quantity due to the way Guzzi describe the gearbox and final drive and quite often shops that are unfamiliar with the bikes seem to put the quantity of oil that is supposed to go into the bevelbox into the gearbox.

While this mistake baffles me I know it happens. The correct quantity for your gearbox is half a litre but you can simply add it to the level of the fill plug with the bike upright which is slightly over half a litre with no harm occurring.

Pete

Thanks for the further advice Pete, I have some Motul 75/90 so will bang that in on the weekend.
Cheers
Don

[donp71]

Reaction rod bushes wouldn't make the gear change stiffer but will make it 'Clunkier'. Also on that score make sure there is minimal play in the throttle cables. This also has a profound effect on the clunkiness of the change. Tri increasing the clutch lever span as well.

As others have said, unless there's a specific problem or symptom, the first thing to do is change the fluid. Having the right level of fluid is critical to the transmission's smoothness, and using a quality oil helps too. Similar to Pete's comments, I like synthetic - my favorite is Mobil1 75w90, which can be used in both the transmission and the CARC (suitable and certified for both applications, i.e., straight and bevel gears). It comes out just about exactly the same color it goes in, so there's no visible sign of breakdown - and a lab test I had done showed minimal/no breakdown at 10,000+ miles (I had a long trip and didn't want to change it halfway).

Thanks ITsec changing the oil this weekend.
Cheers
Don

[donp71]

I replaced the front bush in my '07 Norge with a rubber one. As Pete said clearly it'll have no effect on the shifting, but does soften the slight "snatchiness" present if you're not smooth on/off the throttle (as you should be). For the record I use Motul 80/90 with Molycote, and after 110,000 k the gearbox is like butter, (smooth not yellow). Interestingly though, if I give mine a bit of a "crank" in the lower gears, the next shift can be a bit clacky, you can sorta feel it when it's gunna do it, and a flick on the clutch lever stops it.

Huzo can you tell me where you got the rubber bush from please, and part number/dimensions of it? Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Don

[Huzo]

Huzo can you tell me where you got the rubber bush from please, and part number/dimensions of it? Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Don

When at Corsa last year in London, I had a new rear shock fitted. They had one in stock and we just pressed it in. You can tell the extra "softness" straight away. Sorry but I don't have a part number for you.

[Kiwi Dave]

Huzo can you tell me where you got the rubber bush from please, and part number/dimensions of it? Any info appreciated.
Cheers
Don

I got mine from Harpers.  Search on their site for #883045 and if you want the other end #05638130.

[donp71]

I got mine from Harpers.  Search on their site for #883045 and if you want the other end #05638130.

Thanks Kiwi Dave!

[Rayjv]

On the clutch thing .......poor throw (travel) will give hard shifting ......especially when searching for
newtral . As for the transmition fluid : I use 75-140 synetic. I live in New England , same crappy weather as old England , today I'm out and about to New Hampshire (same as old Hampshire) at 33 degrees ......
In a couple of months it could be 90+ .....hence the 75-140 ...... . You could also use "Molly" . It's a black additive that other reputable oil manufactures use as an addive......it works for me . Also use in rear end . Note : when changing tranny fluid ......like the rear end , fill exactly to the overflow hole , maybe an extra oz. .....that's it . Any more in the tranny WILL case your clutch to slip (at or above 4000 rpm when ya boot it) cause it's under pressure and sweats , leaks whatever on your clutch , I've been there . Take two beers and call me in the morning .         Fin . Ray .

P.S. check your clutch throw .🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍

[ITSec]

On the clutch thing .......poor throw (travel) will give hard shifting ......especially when searching for
newtral . As for the transmition fluid : I use 75-140 synetic. I live in New England , same crappy weather as old England , today I'm out and about to New Hampshire (same as old Hampshire) at 33 degrees ......
In a couple of months it could be 90+ .....hence the 75-140 ...... . You could also use "Molly" . It's a black additive that other reputable oil manufactures use as an addive......it works for me . Also use in rear end . Note : when changing tranny fluid ......like the rear end , fill exactly to the overflow hole , maybe an extra oz. .....that's it . Any more in the tranny WILL case your clutch to slip (at or above 4000 rpm when ya boot it) cause it's under pressure and sweats , leaks whatever on your clutch , I've been there . Take two beers and call me in the morning .         Fin . Ray .

P.S. check your clutch throw .🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍

Ray, 75-140 is recommended for small block (final drive specs at 85w140 in the manual), but is NOT recommended for the 1100/1200 bikes. The recommended oil can handle both low and high temps just fine - including 120 degrees F here in Las Vegas in the summer.

Gearbox oil in both large block and small block is specified at 80w90.