73 Eldorado "twitchy" at high speed?

[needanotherbike]

are loop frames or 70s eldorado not great at today's highway speed?  I want one, but never seen/touch/ridden one.  I want some feed back on people who have extensive experience.  could it be this particular bike/setup, or are they all like this?


from:  motorcycleclassics. com/classic-italian-motorcycles/ten-days-1973-moto-guzzi-eldorado


"So what’s that curious mix of reactions we alluded to earlier? For all of its good points, and they are many, what the Moto Guzzi Eldorado presents and what it delivers seem like two different things. While 64hp isn’t exactly prodigious, it should be ample for a bike like the Eldo. And yet the Eldorado feels slow, unhappy to build speed with any kind of zeal.
Add to that the Eldo’s mission as a highway cruiser, and it feels oddly out of its comfort zone on fast highways, where speeds of 70mph-plus seem too taxing. Stick to the back roads and sub-65mph speeds, and it’s serene.

The other odd sensation is how it handles its weight. Although heavy, at low speeds it feels surprisingly light, exhibiting incredible slow-speed maneuverability. Yet at high speeds, where you’d think its weight would help make it stable, it feels twitchy.

Of course, it’s possible we’re trying to make the Eldorado live up to riding characteristics it could never have. While its engine and transmission are the equal of many of its contemporaries, there’s no denying the handling limitations of its loop frame and stiff suspension. Frankly, we can’t stop comparing it to a similar year BMW R75 /5, a bike much like the Eldorado but one we find a better proposition for the open road."

[moto-uno]

   First of all you absolutely have to know that that HP figure is ludicrous ! Check out my post on "need help tuning my Le Mans" to give you an idea of their advertising nonsense .
One would need to know more about things like tire choice , how worn are the suspension components and neck and swing arm bearings , do you have a windshield ? By today's
standards I don't think they'd be anyone's first choice for high speed long distant touring ( many here may disagree ) . Peter

[Shorty]

The only time any of my loop frame bikes felt twitchy was if I had a heavy load riding up in the rear top box. Those bikes were capable of speeds that required better brakes...   

[Tom]

Like Shorty......going fast is not the problem.  It's the stopping.   

[Dave Swanson]

My first ride on a Loop was my 74 Eldo after I performed a complete mechanical restoration.   My first strong impression is that is felt like it was hewn from a solid block of billet steel.  Uncannily rock solid!  It remains rock solid up to the maximum speed, which for me is about 100 mph - seldom achieved but she has been there a few times when chasing liter bikes.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If you can find a copy, read "Moto Guzzi Big Twins" by Greg Field. The police departments had issues with high speed stability, several officers were injured, a factory test rider was killed. The new forks of the disk-brake Eldo helped, but so did the solid (vs. tubular) front crashbars and not carrying loads too far rearward.

In civilian use, in my experience, drum-brake Loops can be quite "squirrely", especially with 'bags and a trunk. A large handlebar fairing (other than the original "polizia" fairing) can also cause instability. My V700 (when equipped with fairing, bags, trunk) was a bit unstable until I added a steering damper. When the fairing and trunk are off, it's still more stable feeling though.

[ampm7]

They need an adjustable steering damper. I put one on my Ambo and works well.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

If you can find a copy, read "Moto Guzzi Big Twins" by Greg Field. The police departments had issues with high speed stability, several officers were injured, a factory test rider was killed. The new forks of the disk-brake Eldo helped, but so did the solid (vs. tubular) front crashbars and not carrying loads too far rearward.

In civilian use, in my experience, drum-brake Loops can be quite "squirrely", especially with 'bags and a trunk. A large handlebar fairing (other than the original "polizia" fairing) can also cause instability. My V700 (when equipped with fairing, bags, trunk) was a bit unstable until I added a steering damper. When the fairing and trunk are off, it's still more stable feeling though.

Any thoughts on the bar clamp setup for this Charlie?  Ive seen some describe it as steering from the back?  I occasionally see a loop with a front end swap that has standard non-offset bar risers vs. the stock ones that stick back over the tank, do you think this contributes?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Any thoughts on the bar clamp setup for this Charlie?  Ive seen some describe it as steering from the back?  I occasionally see a loop with a front end swap that has standard non-offset bar risers vs. the stock ones that stick back over the tank, do you think this contributes?

I'm sure unwanted rider input may be a contributing factor, perhaps amplified by the "rear steer".

[jbell]

Completely disagree with the OP's quoted test ride.  Acceleration quite good for the day and stability at high speed cruising very good with proper tires and suspension. 

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I'm sure unwanted rider input may be a contributing factor, perhaps amplified by the "rear steer".

I'm on low wide tracker bars vs. the stock rise & bend and have not experienced any 'twitchyness' on the Ambo but I also have new progressive shocks, fresh fork, and a solo seat with only a small tail box (no paniers) + only front crash bars

[Fireflyr]

I've had my Eldorado with both the 750/4 speed that had been installed when I purchased it, and the rebuilt original 850/5 speed that is now in it.  I actually liked the 4 speed clunkbox better than the 5 speed.  Both seemed to have about the same power.  It handles well but drags the floor boards pretty early.  Highway speeds are easy to maintain and handling/stability are good, even WITH a sidecar. I have the original solo seat installed and find it comfortable for about an hour but after that I tend to squirm around a bit.  I always wondered if the two up seat would be better.







And I agree with the responses on braking.  Or lack of.............

[JC85]

I've put around 4000 miles of highway riding on mine, over the last few years. Acceleration can't match a modern big block, but it satisfies me, and I've never had any trouble maintaining highway speeds, even riding two up while towing my cargo trailer on my way to the MOKAN, last weekend. 400+ miles, and the old girl pulled it at 65-70mph like it wasn't even there. The only speed related running issue that I've found is that the top  sustained cruising speed is 70-75; running above that for any real period of time creates too much oil pressure for the breather system to keep up with, and it'll puke out some oil. As far as stability, I've never had any issues, but I only dress it with a simple windshield, side cases, and front/rear crash bars. No fairing, no trunk. It's a 74 police model, so it does also have a steering damper. Back when my dad had it, he went down from a tank slapper one time, riding solo with it fully dressed, which I've heard increases the likelihood of a high speed wobble issue, so that makes sense.

[Furbo]

They can be.

I have a set of bags & trunk on the back of mine and I put a nice hydraulic steering damper on it. As to speed - it 'feels' stressed above 75.....but it's not. Think that's mostly because it makes a huge amount of mechanical noise...

[Lannis]

If Greg Field were still posting here, he'd jump in and tell you about his slightly modified Eldo (with a heated-up engine and front fork with modified damping and a short extension) that was rock solid up to its 120 MPH top speed.

As someone said, before you drew any conclusions about handling issues, you'd have to rebuild the forks, put on new shocks and mounting bushings, redo the swingarm bearings, carefully check wheel alignment, and make sure you had compatible tires before pushing it.   

Otherwise it might get away from you!

Lannis

[Tom]

He has a V11 Sport front-end on his Eldo.  Anyone following him on any of the rides out of the campground at the Randle, WA campout would have to work at it trying to keep up with him.

[Tom H]

In the past 40 years with my Eldo (with police shield, police metal bags and a trunk), it has very rarely felt unstable solo or two up. The times that I got nervous was with 45-90 degree very heavy cross wind feeling like it was going to lift my front end off the ground, big rigs were swerving and slowing down. Also when going over certain sharp and tall freeway grooves and some bridge expansion joints. The bike would track the grooves.

As far as speed, 70mph it has always been very happy. 75mph it will do but sounds like it's working to do it. 80mph can be held as well, but I don't like to. I did get 110mph per the police speedo (I think I GPS'ed the speed a bit ago and it was like 2*3mph off at 70mph) two up on a straight desert road. It got up there to 90mph pretty quick, but then it crept to 110mph. I think it would have done a few more, but a curve was coming and didn't want to push my luck.

Tom

[Chuck in Indiana]

To the OP. Realize you are dealing with an antique motorcycle. For what it is.. it is very good. I, personally, would look for a disc brake Eldo if I wanted a loop.

[harrytief]

I added a Hyperpro steering damper to my Ambassador as well as ohlins rear shocks and upgraded the front end with springs and cartridges. Definately stable at highway speed. Pics of the bike in the swap meet section.
Harry

[Canuck750]

I have been riding my restored 72 Eldorado for the past six years and I am happy with the ride and handling. Stepping off a modern bike may be a big disappointment for some, I treat it as different experience.



I have rebuilt everything on the bike, Hagon rear shocks, wurth springs up front and forks converted to FAC dampers (refer to This Old Tractor for how to).  I have a MG Cylce Loop type plexiglass fairing, solo sprung seat, floor boards and hard bags. I also replaced the drum front brake with dual disc Brembo's easy enough to do, most any T3 set up can be swapped over.

I can cruise comfortably for hours on end at 75 mph. Still feels the bumps a bit, power is 'adequate' for modern highway speeds. It corners just fine, not twitchy at all.

Just don't expect it to ride any where near as comfortable as a modern touring bike like a Goldwing or BMW K bike.

[needanotherbike]

To the OP. Realize you are dealing with an antique motorcycle. For what it is.. it is very good. I, personally, would look for a disc brake Eldo if I wanted a loop.

yes, I just want to be able to cruise at 70mph and not feeling unstable.  I just didn't want to buy one and figured this out.  Seems it also has alot to do with the maint, tires, the way it's loaded.  Thanks for all the inputs everyone.

[Tom]

You won't be sorry if you get a Loop.   

[Cam3512]

I put one of these on my former Eldo and current Ambo.  If headed for the slab, I crank it up a couple notches.  Works great.

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-adjustable-hydraulic-steering-damper.html

[nick949]

I figure if you want to go fast on the highway get a different bike. If you want to go far, and occasionally go on the highway and don't mind other vehicles going by, a Loop is just fine. I've never experienced any handling issues that couldn't be traced to operator stupidity.

Nick

[Turin]

I have an early '69 ambassador ( glorified V7 ) that has less rake than the later loops. ( more twitchy ). Wixom bags, no fairing.

It's just fine and I get her up over 80mph on a regular basis ( Anything over 80 is being mean to the old girl) I have Hagon shocks and Wirth springs up front.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I put one of these on my former Eldo and current Ambo.  If headed for the slab, I crank it up a couple notches.  Works great.

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-adjustable-hydraulic-steering-damper.html

care to post a pic of your mounting for this unit Cam?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

care to post a pic of your mounting for this unit Cam?

If you can find the pieces, the factory mount is one way to go. Last I heard, Harper's had them. I "roll my own", similar to what is shown here: http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_steering_damper_replacement.html

[Cam3512]

If you can find the pieces, the factory mount is one way to go. Last I heard, Harper's had them. I "roll my own", similar to what is shown here: http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_steering_damper_replacement.html

I’m currently away from the bike.  On my Eldo I used the existing mounts from the stock damper.  Charlie made me the mount for the Ambo’s frame, and I sourced the needed spacer block to mount the front under the lower triple tree.  Ambo’s didn’t come stock with a damper.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I’m currently away from the bike.  On my Eldo I used the existing mounts from the stock damper.  Charlie made me the mount for the Ambo’s frame, and I sourced the needed spacer block to mount the front under the lower triple tree.  Ambo’s didn’t come stock with a damper.

Yeah no damper on my ambos, I am toying with idea of 1100 engine for my 73, if I can sort out a disc front end..  between you, charlie, and greg bender, I am covered now- thanks

[LowRyter]

I'm not sure why anyone would worry about problems with 47 year old motorcycle. 

I might ask if the cruise control works well or in the GPS navigation is easy to use.