v7 sport "fence post" rebuild

[siabeid]

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[/img][/img]     Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up using Charlie's "all of the above" method, and it did come loose. I gave it more Moov-it and heated up the cylinder very carefully with my cutting torch,  gave it a couple hard smacks inward and used a big hammer and a dull chisel and it finally started to unscrew. Also a big pipe wrench. It destroyed the nut, but the head didn't seem to get damaged. I then took the exhaust system apart with the torch. I ran a big nylon tie through the cross over tubes and pushed out a whole handful of bug nests. The exhaust also had about a pound of rust flakes in it. I pulled the heads, and they actually looked pretty good. The left cylinder pulled off easily enough, but I had to jack the right cylinder off the piston by turning the flywheel and jamming blocks of wood between the cylinder and casing. The chrome on the cylinders was definitely coming off. I pulled the sump after draining the oil and it was the weirdest looking stuff I have ever seen in an engine. The bottom of the sump is covered with a layer of very shiny black  goo about 3/16" thick. It is so viscous that it won't even flow. The picture of the sump is taken with the sump vertical. That is how thick it is. I can't wait to see the sludge trap.
     These pictures are of  the chrome bore of the cylinder. the cylinder removal. a head.  Also the sump standing vertically. You have to be patient with me sending the pics, as I am just figuring out how to do it.

[Guzzidad]

   I have many years of experience getting "frozen" threads to give up their grip. By far, the most effective penetrating oil is called Knock Er Loose by CRC. After a liberal application of Knock Er Loose lightly tap the nut with hammer and punch all around to vibrate the oil into the threads. This may take up to 100 taps. That should loosen it. If not, apply heat.

[swooshdave]

You have to be patient with me sending the pics, as I am just figuring out how to do it.

You're doing great! Take a ton of pictures and even if  you don't post them all here find a photo hosting site and post them there too.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

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[/img][/img]     Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up using Charlie's "all of the above" method, and it did come loose. I gave it more Moov-it and heated up the cylinder very carefully with my cutting torch,  gave it a couple hard smacks inward and used a big hammer and a dull chisel and it finally started to unscrew. Also a big pipe wrench. It destroyed the nut, but the head didn't seem to get damaged. I then took the exhaust system apart with the torch. I ran a big nylon tie through the cross over tubes and pushed out a whole handful of bug nests. The exhaust also had about a pound of rust flakes in it. I pulled the heads, and they actually looked pretty good. The left cylinder pulled off easily enough, but I had to jack the right cylinder off the piston by turning the flywheel and jamming blocks of wood between the cylinder and casing. The chrome on the cylinders was definitely coming off. I pulled the sump after draining the oil and it was the weirdest looking stuff I have ever seen in an engine. The bottom of the sump is covered with a layer of very shiny black  goo about 3/16" thick. It is so viscous that it won't even flow. The picture of the sump is taken with the sump vertical. That is how thick it is. I can't wait to see the sludge trap.
     These pictures are of  the chrome bore of the cylinder. the cylinder removal. a head.  Also the sump standing vertically. You have to be patient with me sending the pics, as I am just figuring out how to do it.

Glad to hear that you didn't have to go "medieval" on it!  Aren't you glad that didn't try to start it? 

[siabeid]

Yes, indeed. Do you suppose that gooey stuff is dirt that separated  out of the oil after sitting for so long? The oil I drained out of it just looked like ordinary dirty oil. It will be interesting to see the crank.

Glad to hear that you didn't have to go "medieval" on it!  Aren't you glad that didn't try to start it? 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Yes, indeed. Do you suppose that gooey stuff is dirt that separated  out of the oil after sitting for so long? The oil I drained out of it just looked like ordinary dirty oil. It will be interesting to see the crank.

Build up of sludge? I've seen oil separate in the bottle if left on the shelf too long, possibly that?

[chuck peterson]

 

I still wanna see you remove the EXHAUST HEAD pipe from the cylinder...come on, please? I know you can do it...

 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I still wanna see you remove the EXHAUST HEAD pipe from the cylinder...come on, please? I know you can do it...

 

Since the head pipe doesn't attach to the cylinder, I think you'll have a very long wait...

[Chuck in Indiana]

The "Monte Carlo" Eldo I picked up several years ago oil pan looked about the same. I had to drill out the sludge trap..

[siabeid]

     I finally had a chance to work on the old Sport, and got it completely torn down into components.  The tranny and rear end oil was old and thick, but no pieces of metal came out. I cleaned up the mess in the sump and there were no pieces there either. I am thinking that goo might have been dirty oil that separated after sitting for so long. I really think that this is a pretty low mileage bike. The clutch hub and transmission input gear, the flywheel ring gear, the carb slides, the cylinder bores, the u joint and driveshaft splines show hardly any wear at all. It definitely went down on it's right side, as the valve cover is scratched and the right handlebar is bent a little. The right side of the tank is dented, too. It must not have been very hard, though as the fins on the head are fine. That is probably why the instrument panel and headlight were replaced with incorrect parts.
     I think I will tear the rest of the engine down next. I am curious to see what the bearings and crank look like. Does any one know if the frames on these were glossy or satin black? It kind of looks like satin, but is too faded to really  tell.  I know my LM3 is satin black.

[Scud]

That's a great milestone. Now you can start restoring whichever sub-assemblies you want. If you get stuck on one thing, you can move on to a different bit while you wait for parts or advice.

 

[siabeid]

     I started pulling the engine apart. The timing chain tensioner was almost disintegrated. I was reading in Guzziology that that was a weak point of that era. The rubber bits from that must have gotten ground up and travelled through the engine and perhaps were some of the weird stuff in the bottom of the sump. The oil pressure switch was not there and there was a screw in cap with a gasket instead. The rod bearings were definitely loose and with deep scoring. The babbit was worn through in some areas. It must have had quite a knock. Wrist pin bushings seemed fine as do the rocker arm shafts. The crank rod journals look and feel fine but I have not measured  them yet. I had to stop and order a special socket to get the crank nut off. I don't think this was ever disassembled before. The fasteners are all like new except for the surface corrosion on the heads. The alternator was funny. It was completely packed with bug nests. I'm anxious to see the mains and the sludge trap. Hopefully I can continue next weekend.

[Lannis]

Sounds like a mechanical labor of love is going on!

Thanks for the update, and it'll be a good experience (and a motivating one) for the rest of us as you continue to document this rescue ... !

Lannis

[Tom H]

Thank you for the update!!! Keep 'em coming!!

Tom

[canuck750]

Keep up the good work!

Looking forward to the rebuild.

[Chuck in Indiana]

 :1:

[geoff in almonte]

How about some pix?

I love reading these barnfind/teardown rebuild threads   Makes me wish I was handier than I am.

G

[lti_57]

Nice pics and write up so far Si
how are the temps up there? Been around 2 -7 deg.  here.
So i know its at least that cold up where you are at.
So the Norge just sits and waits
man this winter sucks.

[Tom]

Your rebuild looks good so far.  How's the snow???

[siabeid]

About 18 inches or so on the ground now. (Tuesday 6AM). It hasn't been above 20 for a month or so, and down around zero quite a bit. The freezing rain is coming though. It is probably going to get kind of wild for a couple days. When that rain hits the really cold ground and trees, it is going to get interesting.

[Lannis]

About 18 inches or so on the ground now. (Tuesday 6AM). It hasn't been above 20 for a month or so, and down around zero quite a bit. The freezing rain is coming though. It is probably going to get kind of wild for a couple days. When that rain hits the really cold ground and trees, it is going to get interesting.

How in the world do you heat your workshop in that kind of weather?

I've got a 7500 watt electric heater in a well-insulated garage, but it would be running all the time in zero - to - 20 degree weather to keep the shop at 60 or so ...

Lannis

[drdwb]

Way up here in west central mn we often have temps sub zero, we just went through a spell of -8-20 below for about a week, that doesn't count the wind chill which put it well below zero. My shop / garage stays 40 easy for around $20.00 a month, natural gas, my heater is a Hamilton similar to a Modine it think is a 50,000 BTU .it can take it to 60-65 in minutes . the garage is super insulated and has an up stairs which is also very well insulated.
 When you live here you prepare for it.

[RANDM]

Curious and trying to learn - with that exhaust header nut -
would Electrolosis have been an option? I've seen Ytubes of
a rusted and locked up car door latch and it even cleaned the
inside of the latch and it worked again.
Would Electrolosis penetrate the threads and free them up?
Would Electrolosis even work on Alloy or a Steel / Alloy mix?

Maurie.

[johnr]

Often a few whacks with a hammer can help shock loose corrosion.  I wouldn't heat the aluminum part you're trying to turn, since that will make it bigger.  That is if it's a male threaded thing that screws into a female threaded part of the head, which I think it is.

For that very reason I would heat the head.

[siabeid]

     I finally had a chance to finish the engine tear down and clean and measure the components. The sludge trap had about a tablespoon of rubbery, metallic paste jammed in it. I had to dig at it and pull it out with a hook. It was magnetic. The crank and cam journals actually looked pretty good. They both measured within spec. These engines really are robust. The oil pump looks good, but I am going to measure it out tomorrow. The main bearings aren't real pretty, but seem to be within spec. The rod bearings are really worn badly. There is a little grooving on the inside of the crank case where the chain rubbed against it. It must have really made a terrible racket the last time it ran. The end thrust on both the crank and cam was about .035". That seems very excessive. Does any one know what that spec should be? I was confused by the shop manual and am not sure what the spec for that is. 
     The weather has been in the mid 30s during the day. Got it up to 60 degrees in the shop today. Very pleasant!

[siabeid]

    I have been making some progress on a few fronts. I ordered about $3000 of parts from Moto International and MG Cycle, including a new tank and seat.  The wrist pins were pretty sloppy, so I sent the rods to Seattle along with the heads to get the valves done and the wrist pins and bushings fitted. I am anxiously awaiting them , as well as the new Gilardoni sets to come back from MI so I can finish the engine. I got the lower end put back together about as far as I want to go without con rods. Yesterday I rebuilt the forks with new dampers, Wirth springs, seals and fork tubes. The old tubes were not only horribly rusted, but the right one was also bent. There was no oil in the forks, but plenty of water. Naturally the steel components inside were totally rusted up. I had to pull one side's inside parts out with a slide hammer they were so seized in there. It all cleaned up nicely, though and is looking good. I spent part of today cleaning up and repainting the triple trees and a bunch of smaller parts. I think I will start in on the frame next. Hopefully the rest of my engine parts will be in this week.
     This project has been really fun, so far. It is really cool to take a total piece of junk and give it a new lease on life, though it is a long process when you only have 2 or 3 days per month to work on it.  I am getting anxious for riding season to return.  We still have a whole bunch of snow. I always try to go for a ride on my birthday, March 3, but this year I won't even be able to get out the driveway to the county road. I guess that will give me more time to work on the Sport next weekend.

[Tom]

 

[smdl]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop!  Er, maybe that should be the Tonti...

Cheers,
Shaun

[Triple Jim]

It's interesting to read the updates, thanks.

[antmanbee]

Happy Birthday,

My daughter was born on 3/3/99.
Off to university this summer. Other wise I could afford a project like yours.